Guest guest Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hi folks, It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the emotional roller coaster anymore. But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. Thanks for listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hi, and sorry you're going through that. I know it must be hard. My personal feeling is that I would not want to reward your mother's behavior (trying to trick you into answering the phone by using a number you don't know) with a visit. I know it must be hard for your dad, too, and it's good that he is at least understanding of your need for NC with your mother. But I have the same visceral, physical reactions when I have contact from my mother--even when I get a call from their area code!--and I have learned that it means " Stay away from these people! " I know you understand this. But it is entirely up to you whether you are willing to see your mother. Personally, I wouldn't. If I felt comfortable around my dad but not my mom, I would have to ask that we not meet with her there. It will be up to him whether it is more important to make time to see his grandchildren or to avoid your mother's rage. It's sad that sometimes our other relationships end up getting some collateral damage, but that's the breaks when we choose NC. Again, I'm sorry you're having to make that choice. But listen to what your body is telling you and trust your instinct to stay away from your mother. It won't be an enjoyable visit with your dad if she's there. Sveta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Dear Last, My sympathies for your predicament. For what it's worth, I wanted to share with you that I still felt even the slightest bit inclined to see and/or speak with my nada when I was still had something to learn. When I truly had nothing left to learn from her, I found that I was able to take all necessary steps not to see her--including sacrificing my family contact. Maybe there is something more you need to learn about your Dad or the way that he interacts with your nada and/or you? Or even your nada. Just some food for thought. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions and go their own pace with these things. Best wishes, Charlotte > > Hi folks, > It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > > Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the emotional roller coaster anymore. > > But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > > I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > > Thanks for listening > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his sad voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. My nada is a queen bitch er I mean witch ha ha. My dad has been married to her since 1969. There is absolutely no way it would be possible for her to behave the way she does if he or someone else did not enable her. My dad is a textbook enabler. He was my best friend when I was a kid and is the only reason I turned out semi-normal/semi functional. However, he sat and watched my mother abuse me. At times he joined in. He trained me, as all children in all dysfunctional families are trained that I was the problem, i had to change my behavior, i had to change who I was to please my mother. and she was never pleased. The thing is in an alcoholic family (and bpd familes follow the same dynamics) one parent has to allow and help the other person be an alcoholic. That enabler then forces the children into a harmful role in order to keep pressure off the alcoholic so that the alchoholic (or bpd) can stay an alcoholic, and even if their isn't peace in the home things will feel normal, feel stable, feel functional to them. The alternative are that the alcoholic chooses to get well or that the enabler gets well and leaves and takes the kids. Your dad may be your good parent (if you are like me) but he did you wrong by leaving you in that house, sitting by and watching, or pushing you to take on adult roles as a kid. He is not the poor innocent victim he wants you to see. I would bet that your mom is pressuring him to pressure you and he is responding. In my case my nada would always say " your dad thinks or your dad said " to work me because she knew she had so little influence. I don't think he thought or said a single thing she brought up to me in her entire life. I would give him a choice - in fact I did that with my dad. In my case he wanted me to come see his new horse on Christmas. i said I would go when my mother was not home. he flipped. I canceled. It was THE END. It took me 5 years of NC with my mother to realize my father was 50% responsible. I'm sure it hurts - but the fact is if you are married to a bpd, you raise children witha bpd and you make it possible for that person to stay sick and inflict abuse you cannot possibly be a wonderful parent. In my case my dad was the best I had so I worshipped him. But once I started looking for signs - for instance he asked me to QUIT all my hobbies so I would have time to do all his hobbies with him (and I was in my 30s by the way)- there were red flags everywhere and I realized it wasn't a healthy relationship. Maybe you can set boundaries and have a relationship. In my case my boundaries were pushed, ignored, never acknowledged and even trampled. I had to walk away. Only you can decide if you need to go NC or LC with both parents. I would just suggest that you learn as much as possible about abusive family roles so that you don't fall prey to a responsible adult's victim act. Good luck xoxo, Girlscout On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, charlottehoneychurch < charlottehoneychurch@...> wrote: > ** > > > > Dear Last, > > My sympathies for your predicament. For what it's worth, I wanted to share > with you that I still felt even the slightest bit inclined to see and/or > speak with my nada when I was still had something to learn. When I truly had > nothing left to learn from her, I found that I was able to take all > necessary steps not to see her--including sacrificing my family contact. > Maybe there is something more you need to learn about your Dad or the way > that he interacts with your nada and/or you? Or even your nada. Just some > food for thought. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions and go > their own pace with these things. > > Best wishes, > Charlotte > > > > > Hi folks, > > It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need > to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of > May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > > > > Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close > relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it > at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best > for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without > her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and > I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the > emotional roller coaster anymore. > > > > But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I > think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want > them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at > least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public > over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was > considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't > recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She > was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart > rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second > time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > > > > I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so > much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my > husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > > > > Thanks for listening > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 VERY VERY INTERESTING about the " enabler " . Fits my Dad's description EXACTLY. You may have opened a wonderful door for me in dealing with my Dad. Any idea where I can read more about the role of the " enabler " , any specific literature on this? You are a life saver, I have been trying to find a way to blame my Dad for years, but he always wriggles out scott free. Your analysis of " enabler " may just be my chance to make him face his demons. N > Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the > other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on > BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his sad > voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. > > My nada is a queen bitch er I mean witch ha ha. My dad has been married to > her since 1969. There is absolutely no way it would be possible for her to > behave the way she does if he or someone else did not enable her. My dad is > a textbook enabler. He was my best friend when I was a kid and is the only > reason I turned out semi-normal/semi functional. However, he sat and watched > my mother abuse me. At times he joined in. He trained me, as all children in > all dysfunctional families are trained that I was the problem, i had to > change my behavior, i had to change who I was to please my mother. and she > was never pleased. > > The thing is in an alcoholic family (and bpd familes follow the same > dynamics) one parent has to allow and help the other person be an alcoholic. > That enabler then forces the children into a harmful role in order to keep > pressure off the alcoholic so that the alchoholic (or bpd) can stay an > alcoholic, and even if their isn't peace in the home things will feel > normal, feel stable, feel functional to them. The alternative are that the > alcoholic chooses to get well or that the enabler gets well and leaves and > takes the kids. > > Your dad may be your good parent (if you are like me) but he did you wrong > by leaving you in that house, sitting by and watching, or pushing you to > take on adult roles as a kid. He is not the poor innocent victim he wants > you to see. I would bet that your mom is pressuring him to pressure you and > he is responding. In my case my nada would always say " your dad thinks or > your dad said " to work me because she knew she had so little influence. I > don't think he thought or said a single thing she brought up to me in her > entire life. > > I would give him a choice - in fact I did that with my dad. In my case he > wanted me to come see his new horse on Christmas. i said I would go when my > mother was not home. he flipped. I canceled. It was THE END. It took me 5 > years of NC with my mother to realize my father was 50% responsible. > > I'm sure it hurts - but the fact is if you are married to a bpd, you raise > children witha bpd and you make it possible for that person to stay sick and > inflict abuse you cannot possibly be a wonderful parent. In my case my dad > was the best I had so I worshipped him. But once I started looking for signs > - for instance he asked me to QUIT all my hobbies so I would have time to do > all his hobbies with him (and I was in my 30s by the way)- there were red > flags everywhere and I realized it wasn't a healthy relationship. > > Maybe you can set boundaries and have a relationship. In my case my > boundaries were pushed, ignored, never acknowledged and even trampled. I had > to walk away. > > Only you can decide if you need to go NC or LC with both parents. I would > just suggest that you learn as much as possible about abusive family roles > so that you don't fall prey to a responsible adult's victim act. > > Good luck xoxo, Girlscout > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, charlottehoneychurch < > charlottehoneychurch@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> >> Dear Last, >> >> My sympathies for your predicament. For what it's worth, I wanted to share >> with you that I still felt even the slightest bit inclined to see and/or >> speak with my nada when I was still had something to learn. When I truly had >> nothing left to learn from her, I found that I was able to take all >> necessary steps not to see her--including sacrificing my family contact. >> Maybe there is something more you need to learn about your Dad or the way >> that he interacts with your nada and/or you? Or even your nada. Just some >> food for thought. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions and go >> their own pace with these things. >> >> Best wishes, >> Charlotte >> >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need >> to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of >> May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... >>> >>> Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close >> relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it >> at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best >> for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without >> her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and >> I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the >> emotional roller coaster anymore. >>> >>> But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I >> think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want >> them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at >> least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public >> over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was >> considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't >> recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She >> was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart >> rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second >> time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. >>> >>> I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so >> much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my >> husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. >>> >>> Thanks for listening >>> >> >> >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 sure, any books on family therapy, the alcoholic family, addictive behavior roles. I think its in codependant no more but I loaned it out so I can swear. > ** > > > VERY VERY INTERESTING about the " enabler " . Fits my Dad's description > EXACTLY. You may have opened a wonderful door for me in dealing with my Dad. > Any idea where I can read more about the role of the " enabler " , any specific > literature on this? > > You are a life saver, I have been trying to find a way to blame my Dad for > years, but he always wriggles out scott free. Your analysis of " enabler " may > just be my chance to make him face his demons. > > N > > > > > > Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the > > other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on > > BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his > sad > > voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. > > > > My nada is a queen bitch er I mean witch ha ha. My dad has been married > to > > her since 1969. There is absolutely no way it would be possible for her > to > > behave the way she does if he or someone else did not enable her. My dad > is > > a textbook enabler. He was my best friend when I was a kid and is the > only > > reason I turned out semi-normal/semi functional. However, he sat and > watched > > my mother abuse me. At times he joined in. He trained me, as all children > in > > all dysfunctional families are trained that I was the problem, i had to > > change my behavior, i had to change who I was to please my mother. and > she > > was never pleased. > > > > The thing is in an alcoholic family (and bpd familes follow the same > > dynamics) one parent has to allow and help the other person be an > alcoholic. > > That enabler then forces the children into a harmful role in order to > keep > > pressure off the alcoholic so that the alchoholic (or bpd) can stay an > > alcoholic, and even if their isn't peace in the home things will feel > > normal, feel stable, feel functional to them. The alternative are that > the > > alcoholic chooses to get well or that the enabler gets well and leaves > and > > takes the kids. > > > > Your dad may be your good parent (if you are like me) but he did you > wrong > > by leaving you in that house, sitting by and watching, or pushing you to > > take on adult roles as a kid. He is not the poor innocent victim he wants > > you to see. I would bet that your mom is pressuring him to pressure you > and > > he is responding. In my case my nada would always say " your dad thinks or > > your dad said " to work me because she knew she had so little influence. I > > don't think he thought or said a single thing she brought up to me in her > > entire life. > > > > I would give him a choice - in fact I did that with my dad. In my case he > > wanted me to come see his new horse on Christmas. i said I would go when > my > > mother was not home. he flipped. I canceled. It was THE END. It took me 5 > > years of NC with my mother to realize my father was 50% responsible. > > > > I'm sure it hurts - but the fact is if you are married to a bpd, you > raise > > children witha bpd and you make it possible for that person to stay sick > and > > inflict abuse you cannot possibly be a wonderful parent. In my case my > dad > > was the best I had so I worshipped him. But once I started looking for > signs > > - for instance he asked me to QUIT all my hobbies so I would have time to > do > > all his hobbies with him (and I was in my 30s by the way)- there were red > > flags everywhere and I realized it wasn't a healthy relationship. > > > > Maybe you can set boundaries and have a relationship. In my case my > > boundaries were pushed, ignored, never acknowledged and even trampled. I > had > > to walk away. > > > > Only you can decide if you need to go NC or LC with both parents. I would > > just suggest that you learn as much as possible about abusive family > roles > > so that you don't fall prey to a responsible adult's victim act. > > > > Good luck xoxo, Girlscout > > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, charlottehoneychurch < > > charlottehoneychurch@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Last, > >> > >> My sympathies for your predicament. For what it's worth, I wanted to > share > >> with you that I still felt even the slightest bit inclined to see and/or > >> speak with my nada when I was still had something to learn. When I truly > had > >> nothing left to learn from her, I found that I was able to take all > >> necessary steps not to see her--including sacrificing my family contact. > >> Maybe there is something more you need to learn about your Dad or the > way > >> that he interacts with your nada and/or you? Or even your nada. Just > some > >> food for thought. Everyone is entitled to make their own decisions and > go > >> their own pace with these things. > >> > >> Best wishes, > >> Charlotte > >> > >>> > >>> Hi folks, > >>> It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need > >> to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning > of > >> May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > >>> > >>> Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close > >> relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about > it > >> at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is > best > >> for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids > without > >> her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes > home...and > >> I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the > >> emotional roller coaster anymore. > >>> > >>> But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I > >> think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want > >> them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or > at > >> least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in > public > >> over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was > >> considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I > didn't > >> recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. > She > >> was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my > heart > >> rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second > >> time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > >>> > >>> I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so > >> much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my > >> husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > >>> > >>> Thanks for listening > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 > > Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the > other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on > BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his sad > voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. Yup. All of that is true in my family too. My dad even sticks out his lower lip like a pouting baby. No joke. I don't know Last's dad or what their relationship dynamic is like, either, but I agree with you Girlscout, because of my own experience my gut instinct was that her dad is trying to manipulate her. Our nadas are keenly aware when we like the other parent better and put our dads up to a lot. " You call, she won't listen to me. She adores you and does whatever you want, " etc. They're most often working in tandem; our fathers are the captains in nada's war against us. That's not to say Last's Dad really isn't just terrified of what will happen if he goes without the nada; it's just that if it were my family, I know my dad's goal would be to get us all together so we could remember how " happy " we all are and just " forgive and forget, " because he thinks he can fix it and " smooth everything over. " Sveta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 > > > > ** > > > > > > VERY VERY INTERESTING about the " enabler " . Fits my Dad's description > > EXACTLY. You may have opened a wonderful door for me in dealing with my Dad. > > Any idea where I can read more about the role of the " enabler " , any specific > > literature on this? > I can't double-check this either, because I've also loaned my book out! But I think I remember something on the subject being part of _Surviving a Borderline Parent._ But also I really gained a lot from reading about the husbands in _Understanding the Borderline Mother._ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Thanks everyone! Sveta, that's exactly how my father is. And I know he has some responsibility in her behavior - he DOES enable her. Lately though he's really tried to get her diagnosed with BPD so she can get better treatment, even took her to a BPD specialist under the mask that they were doing marriage counseling. But, I think you all are probably right. I'm sure she's whispering in his ear. He may be the head of the family, but she is his neck and can turn him this way and that. I don't know what I'm going to do. Can I learn something from this visit? Maybe. Do I absolutely dread it? Yes. And whoever said that the visit with my Dad won't even be a good one was right on. Really I'd be doing it to give him a boost. But there you all are right again - he's a responsible adult and can make his own decisions and take responsibility for his own behavior and choices. Sadly, I also realize the only other reason I would do it is because it would make me the " better " kid. My older sister is also NC with our mom, and she refuses to see her...which means mom has not seen the my sister's children either because, as my sister put it, her family is a " package deal " . Seriously, though, how crazy a reason is that? Even after all of this therapy and reading etc..., I'm still looking for their approval!!! Grrr. Just wish I had somewhat normal parents. If only wishing made it so. > > > > Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the > > other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on > > BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his sad > > voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. > > > Yup. All of that is true in my family too. My dad even sticks out his lower lip like a pouting baby. No joke. > > I don't know Last's dad or what their relationship dynamic is like, either, but I agree with you Girlscout, because of my own experience my gut instinct was that her dad is trying to manipulate her. > > Our nadas are keenly aware when we like the other parent better and put our dads up to a lot. " You call, she won't listen to me. She adores you and does whatever you want, " etc. They're most often working in tandem; our fathers are the captains in nada's war against us. That's not to say Last's Dad really isn't just terrified of what will happen if he goes without the nada; it's just that if it were my family, I know my dad's goal would be to get us all together so we could remember how " happy " we all are and just " forgive and forget, " because he thinks he can fix it and " smooth everything over. " > > Sveta > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ohh Last, that's exactly the thing. We are trained to do things to help dad, help mom and give them a boost. the thing we need to do is to give ourselves a boost!! Don't do it for them, do what you want for YOU!! And that is the summary of a year's worth of work in therapy!!! XOXO good luck On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:19 AM, last050811 wrote: > ** > > > > Thanks everyone! Sveta, that's exactly how my father is. And I know he has > some responsibility in her behavior - he DOES enable her. Lately though he's > really tried to get her diagnosed with BPD so she can get better treatment, > even took her to a BPD specialist under the mask that they were doing > marriage counseling. > > But, I think you all are probably right. I'm sure she's whispering in his > ear. He may be the head of the family, but she is his neck and can turn him > this way and that. I don't know what I'm going to do. Can I learn something > from this visit? Maybe. Do I absolutely dread it? Yes. > > And whoever said that the visit with my Dad won't even be a goode th one > was right on. Really I'd be doing it to give him a boost. But there you all > are right again - he's a responsible adult and can make his own decisions > and take responsibility for his own behavior and choices. > > Sadly, I also realize the only other reason I would do it is because it > would make me the " better " kid. My older sister is also NC with our mom, and > she refuses to see her...which means mom has not seen the my sister's > children either because, as my sister put it, her family is a " package > deal " . Seriously, though, how crazy a reason is that? Even after all of this > therapy and reading etc..., I'm still looking for their approval!!! > > Grrr. Just wish I had somewhat normal parents. If only wishing made it so. > > > > > > > > > Dear Last, i have been through this same thing up one side and down the > > > other. I don't know your dad, but I strongly suspect based on > > > BPD/dysfunctional fam dynamics that he is working you. he is using his > sad > > > voice. He knows your buttons and he is pushing them. > > > > > > Yup. All of that is true in my family too. My dad even sticks out his > lower lip like a pouting baby. No joke. > > > > I don't know Last's dad or what their relationship dynamic is like, > either, but I agree with you Girlscout, because of my own experience my gut > instinct was that her dad is trying to manipulate her. > > > > Our nadas are keenly aware when we like the other parent better and put > our dads up to a lot. " You call, she won't listen to me. She adores you and > does whatever you want, " etc. They're most often working in tandem; our > fathers are the captains in nada's war against us. That's not to say Last's > Dad really isn't just terrified of what will happen if he goes without the > nada; it's just that if it were my family, I know my dad's goal would be to > get us all together so we could remember how " happy " we all are and just > " forgive and forget, " because he thinks he can fix it and " smooth everything > over. " > > > > Sveta > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Hugs! I know this is a tough, tough thing for you to deal with. Your dad is feeling the pain of HIS OWN choices. That is something really hard for us KO's to understand sometimes. My mother not only blinded herself to my father's abuse of me but she actively told me it was 'my fault' that he was this way because I provoked it and deserve it. When I think about it it makes me feel spiteful enough to where I only wish I had kids to deny her access to. That is the truth at this moment, even though it makes me feel bad. She denied what she was married to and allowed me to suffer because that was what was most convenient for her. You can tell your dad the only way he can have a relationship with your children is without your mom. He can 'run to the store' and drop by and see them for a few minutes. He can tell her and endure a screaming match but decide that is what it is going to take in order to get to see the kids. He can tell her and have her manipulate her way into your lives and then watch the relationship disintegrate again. All around, though, it's his pain due to HIS choices that he has to deal with. You can't take this pain away from him, and it's veering into codependency to try. I know it hurts, but you have to do what is right for you first and foremost. Hugs. > > Hi folks, > It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > > Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the emotional roller coaster anymore. > > But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > > I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > > Thanks for listening > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 it helps to know the history of the study of alcoholism and that when doctors were trying to treat the alcoholic in the beginning of the last century they noticed that the spouses of the (usually male) alcoholic had such similar personalities that they began to call them the 'co-alcoholic', finding that the other partner in the relationship's very personality and way of life (learned in an abusive childhood usually) functioned to shore up the alcoholic and 'keep them sick'. The terminology was changed to 'co-dependent' to include the partners of people who were more widely addicted or not specifically addicted to alcohol because the behaviors were the same. It's so interesting to me how widely it is dispersed and how the traits can be so widely applied...my mother is the child of an alcoholic and she was programmed into codependency and my father is a NPD who doesn't drink but they mesh perfectly, whereas she could never maintain a relationship with someone functional. > >>> > >>> Hi folks, > >>> It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need > >> to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of > >> May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > >>> > >>> Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close > >> relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it > >> at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best > >> for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without > >> her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and > >> I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the > >> emotional roller coaster anymore. > >>> > >>> But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I > >> think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want > >> them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at > >> least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public > >> over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was > >> considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't > >> recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She > >> was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart > >> rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second > >> time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > >>> > >>> I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so > >> much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my > >> husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > >>> > >>> Thanks for listening > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 It makes sense to me that for every domineering, controlling, bossy person there must be a passive, submissive, weak person looking for someone domineering to tell them when to jump and how high. Somehow, these two types must attract each other like magnets. I don't recall ever reading any posts here from anyone whose mother and father each are dominant, controlling and bossy... or who has two weak, submissive, passive parents. In my foo, my mother was the dominant, volatile, unstable, violent one, and dad was the more passive, easygoing one who never took a strong hand RE establishing boundaries RE how he was treated or how us kids were treated, so, the " opposites attract " thing RE substance abusers attracting enablers seems logical to me. -Annie > > >>> > > >>> Hi folks, > > >>> It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need > > >> to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of > > >> May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > > >>> > > >>> Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close > > >> relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it > > >> at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best > > >> for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without > > >> her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and > > >> I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the > > >> emotional roller coaster anymore. > > >>> > > >>> But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I > > >> think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want > > >> them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at > > >> least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public > > >> over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was > > >> considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't > > >> recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She > > >> was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart > > >> rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second > > >> time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > > >>> > > >>> I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so > > >> much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my > > >> husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for listening > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 what is interesting also is the way it plays out generationally. both of my brothers have been the 'dishrag dad' when married to their BPD wives, even though my father was the violent, domineering and controlling one (though my mother did her share of hitting...her behavior tends to be much more behind the scenes like a puppeteer)...statistically they were supposed to become abusers but instead they married them. > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi folks, > > > >>> It's been a while since I've visited here, but I find that I am in need > > > >> to vent yet again. I have been NC with my BPD mother since the beginning of > > > >> May. It's been great - peaceful, no drama, etc... > > > >>> > > > >>> Unfortunately, my Dad and I have been unable to maintain our close > > > >> relationship because of my choice to go NC with mom. We've talked about it > > > >> at length, and I think we both understand that we're each doing what is best > > > >> for our individual selves. He can't come visit me and his grandkids without > > > >> her because he doesn't want to deal with her wrath when he comes home...and > > > >> I don't want to have anything to do with her because I can't be on the > > > >> emotional roller coaster anymore. > > > >>> > > > >>> But lately my Dad sounds awful. He misses my kids, and they miss him. I > > > >> think his grandkids are the only positive thing left in his life. I want > > > >> them to have a relationship with him like I did with my grandfather - or at > > > >> least have that opportunity. He's suggested that we meet somewhere in public > > > >> over the weekend - him, my mom, me, my husband, and our kids. I was > > > >> considering it....but then she called tonight (from a phone number I didn't > > > >> recognize - I've blocked her number) and left a message on our machine. She > > > >> was calling to talk to my kids. Just the sound of her voice sent my heart > > > >> rate up and I have a giant pit in my stomach again. It's only the second > > > >> time I've heard her voice in over 3 months. > > > >>> > > > >>> I don't know what to do. Just hearing her voice has preoccupied me so > > > >> much over the last hour that I've yelled at my kids and snapped at my > > > >> husband. But I would really like to see my Dad. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks for listening > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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