new member

[Guest guest]

Howdy ,

I'm sorry to hear about even one more person getting this cruddy

disease, but I'm glad you found this group. I think you've got it

right; the collective medical knowledge is truly impressive and the

level of sympathy and empathy within this group will shed light, spark

hope, and sometimes bring a smile on bad days. It has for me.

May God bless you.

I wish you the best of life.

- 45

PSC, Crohns 2000

>

> Hi everyone I am a new member and I thought it was time I introduced

> myself (I have been loitering behind the scenes for a few weeks!)

>

> I also love all your inspiring quotes/mottos, some are even pinned on

> my fridge right now.

>

> I look forward to getting to know you all. Sorry for the long post I

> think I got a bit carried away!

>

> Best wishes

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Then finally also diagnosed with PSC. Phew I think that's it!

>

> Finally had some good news last week that confirmed I didn't have UC

> or Crohns. I am counting my blessings on that one.

>

> I have spent the last few weeks reading all info on the internet

Hi ,

welcome its a bit of a double edged sword, its sad you have been

diagnosed with this disease, but great you have found this wonderful

group of people. Its also good that you don't have IBD. I am in awe of

people who have to cope with both PSC and IBD

Wow you must have got to know lots of Doctors in your short life.

Do keep in touch

Best wishes from (another itchy head scratcher also without

IBD) at the bottom of the world in New Zealand

[Guest guest]

I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect her

and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating stress.

she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and words

but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating stress

and flying off the handle.

she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

and then - the calm after the storm.

how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not shut

down?

[Guest guest]

Hi NotSkipper,

You're in good company here. It sounds like you don't live too close to your

mother, which is good!

Welcome to the group.

Fiona

>

> Hi

>

> I am staying with my mom who has all the characteristics of BPD but has NEVER

(just once, years ago) taken responsibility for her reactions or actions, it is

always someone else's fault. I have kids ranging from 10 to 20 and waffle

between protecting them and letting them develop tools and skills to cope with

their grandma. We don't live close and see her a couple of times a year.

> We stay with her during those visits. I am always torn about sending my kids

(who love her and want to be with her) and the results are always the same -

great times interspursed with crying, blame and tension. I know it sounds

horrid and broken yet we survive, look at only the good and visit again. I am

not sure that I actually have a question, I guess I just needed to share this.

In all our years my (I am 50) mother has only once (briefly) admitted that I

must have gone through hell and that she is sorry. It is mind bending and

insanity making especially since she is super sensitive and extremely brilliant.

Most of the family (I am the exception here) have cut off ties and/or see her as

rarely as possible. I read walking on eggshells years ago and was shocked and

disturbed and became emotional while reading what sounded like a summary of our

relationship and her personality.

> I think I will move onto the next book and hope to build some boundaries -

something I am not good at - I usually try to appease her or take the 5th -

sometimes I just ride out the storm - cause it always passes.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Notskipper,

Your daughter wants you to protect her from your mother? I'm not clear what

she's afraid of. Can you put distance between them? I try not to let my kids

be with my mother unless I'm there as well. She's not physically abusive but

she's work in guilt, shame, etc.

You asked " how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i

not shut down? " I don't know, notskipper. I wish I could help more. But it

does seem that what you're doing now isn't working and may be scaring your

child.

It feels like you don't want to be like the others in your family who now avoid

your mother. But for your own self-preservation and your daughter's sake, you

may need to go low-contact with her? Maybe see her just once a month or

whatever you think would work.

I hope I don't sound harsh. You sound like you're hurting. You certainly don't

have to take my advice. I truly know how hard it is to say no to one's mother. I

hesitated for a very long time before becoming honest with myself and my mother.

It's been a crazy ride. But your family's and your own well-being are worth it.

You deserve to be happy.

Fiona

>

> I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect her

and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

> me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating stress.

> she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and words

but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

> it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating

stress and flying off the handle.

> she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

> and then - the calm after the storm.

> how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not shut

down?

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this crazy-making behavior, and yes, it IS

crazy-making.

I'm pretty sure that what you are describing is called " projection " . Your

mother is " projecting " her own negative behaviors, thoughts, feelings and

motives onto you. I used to experience that from my own bpd mom or " nada "

rather often.

There are a lot of good books available now about various techniques for

managing a loved one with bpd, but I figured out one of them on my own, before I

knew much about bpd.

I realized that if my nada launched into a verbal tirade at me, I could simply

walk away from her, leave the room, or leave her place entirely instead of

standing there frozen like a deer in the headlights and just take it.

I used to visit my nada, my Sister & extended family once a year (I live on the

opposite coast than my entire family.) It was typical that about 3 days into

the visit my nada would begin her pattern of becoming increasingly irritable

with me. I recognized that pattern of behavior, she was trying to goad me into

a fight with her, poking me and stinging me with insults and false accusations

until I felt compelled to defend myself. I grew up with that behavior of hers;

it had been directed mostly at dad. It was like she was backing you into a

corner with verbal punches, spoiling for a fight.

Well, on that particular trip, I suddenly realized that I could simply walk out

of her apartment, and drive over to a friend's house or to my Sister's (or

anywhere, really) and just leave her barking into the wind, so to speak. It

sounds so trivial, so unremarkable, but for me THAT realization was a real

paradigm shift.

I realized late in life that I was an adult and I didn't have to just stand

there and take her verbal abuse anymore. Arguing back with her was

counterproductive; that's what she wanted. Trying to reason with her and calm

her down simply did not have any effect; sometimes it enraged her further.

Of course my nada didn't like me simply walking away from her and leaving AT

ALL, but, after that I used it whenever she launched into one of her trademark

verbal attacks. On one visit I even declared " Oops, mom. I made a mistake

about when my plane leaves. I need to get to the airport now, bye. " But I

simply left and went to stay at my Sister's house instead for the final few days

of my visit. Sister and I were on the same team RE handling our nada. (Our

nada/mother passed away recently, though.)

So, perhaps that is a tactic you can consider trying. Only you can know whether

it might work in your own situation; each relationship dynamic is different.

Best of luck to you. Keep posting. We truly get what you are going through.

-Annie

>

> I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect her

and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

> me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating stress.

> she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and words

but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

> it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating

stress and flying off the handle.

> she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

> and then - the calm after the storm.

> how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not shut

down?

>

[Guest guest]

<<... nada would begin her pattern of becoming increasingly irritable with me. I

recognized that pattern of behavior, she was trying to goad me into a fight with

her, poking me and stinging me with insults and false accusations [meant to goad

or to make one squirm just for the heck of it] until I felt compelled to defend

myself. I grew up with that behavior of hers; it had been directed mostly at

dad. It was like she was backing you into a corner with verbal punches, spoiling

for a fight.

....

I realized late in life that I was an adult and I didn't have to just stand

there and take her verbal abuse anymore. Arguing back with her was

counterproductive; that's what she wanted. Trying to reason with her and calm

her down simply did not have any effect; sometimes it enraged her further. >>

 

Annie describes the pattern of a BPD mom succinctly.  Annie correctly

identifies the   " projection " behaviors, i.e. nada shifting onto another what

nada fears or realizes is really true of herself.

 

Add to the list of crazy-making behaviors: 

1) she will make stuff up as she goes along (so she's changing her story as she

recounts it each time), 

2) she will  also tell terrible lies to hurt or vex,   

3) she will interpret boundaries as a mere challenge, to see how quickly she can

" drive a truck " through the boundaries one has set, and

4) she can and sometimes will take and give away others' property (another kind

of boundary violation).

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:57 AM

Subject: Re: new member

 

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this crazy-making behavior, and yes, it IS

crazy-making.

I'm pretty sure that what you are describing is called " projection " . Your mother

is " projecting " her own negative behaviors, thoughts, feelings and motives onto

you. I used to experience that from my own bpd mom or " nada " rather often.

There are a lot of good books available now about various techniques for

managing a loved one with bpd, but I figured out one of them on my own, before I

knew much about bpd.

I realized that if my nada launched into a verbal tirade at me, I could simply

walk away from her, leave the room, or leave her place entirely instead of

standing there frozen like a deer in the headlights and just take it.

I used to visit my nada, my Sister & extended family once a year (I live on the

opposite coast than my entire family.) It was typical that about 3 days into the

visit my nada would begin her pattern of becoming increasingly irritable with

me. I recognized that pattern of behavior, she was trying to goad me into a

fight with her, poking me and stinging me with insults and false accusations

until I felt compelled to defend myself. I grew up with that behavior of hers;

it had been directed mostly at dad. It was like she was backing you into a

corner with verbal punches, spoiling for a fight.

Well, on that particular trip, I suddenly realized that I could simply walk out

of her apartment, and drive over to a friend's house or to my Sister's (or

anywhere, really) and just leave her barking into the wind, so to speak. It

sounds so trivial, so unremarkable, but for me THAT realization was a real

paradigm shift.

I realized late in life that I was an adult and I didn't have to just stand

there and take her verbal abuse anymore. Arguing back with her was

counterproductive; that's what she wanted. Trying to reason with her and calm

her down simply did not have any effect; sometimes it enraged her further.

Of course my nada didn't like me simply walking away from her and leaving AT

ALL, but, after that I used it whenever she launched into one of her trademark

verbal attacks. On one visit I even declared " Oops, mom. I made a mistake about

when my plane leaves. I need to get to the airport now, bye. " But I simply left

and went to stay at my Sister's house instead for the final few days of my

visit. Sister and I were on the same team RE handling our nada. (Our nada/mother

passed away recently, though.)

So, perhaps that is a tactic you can consider trying. Only you can know whether

it might work in your own situation; each relationship dynamic is different.

Best of luck to you. Keep posting. We truly get what you are going through.

-Annie

>

> I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect her

and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

> me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating stress.

> she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and words

but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

> it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating

stress and flying off the handle.

> she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

> and then - the calm after the storm.

> how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not shut

down?

>

[Guest guest]

I am speechless,

reading these posts - my mother is in everyone of them. as far as protecting my

daughter - she wants me to protect her from the verbal abuse - the accusations,

lies and name calling.

I am not always here to do that though. I showed the book to my daughter, to

give her some

understanding of where her grandmother is coming from - it was very helpful. It

does confuse her that a woman who is successful and very intelligent (and only

shows her BP side to her loved ones) can behave in such contradictory immature

ways. And the strangest thing is

that like the weather - it is ever changing. I also used to be able to count on

at least two days of peace before anything happened. But as my mother is

getting older (she lives alone - we live on the other side of the country) the

episodes get shorter. I don't set verbal boundaries as they make matters worse.

Walking away does help - but walking away calmly is key. And you are right - my

mother is projecting. It is what she always does when she needs to talk and set

the rules of the house straight - usually within hours of our visit.

I want to ask about love. I can't say that I love my mother with an open heart.

I have shut her out and am careful and reserved (emotionally) with her. I used

to feel very vulnerable and as I am getting older (almost 50) I don't really

feel anymore. My love for my father is great. He was the buffer as I was

growing up and we have great talks. How do you love

a mother with BP who is also narcissistic without getting your own feelings

hurt?

I know that I must have stuffed it deep deep down inside me - as her daughter I

don't feel it.

yes, I love her and have compassion for her pain and understanding (you should

have seen her mother- she was even worse) but not the feelings of a daughter to

a mother.

You know ,,,, this year both my older girls - at different time - have come to

realize that I was raised by their grandmother, you know what they said? mom,

how did you survive and turn out ok? And this is after a week with her.

Thank you for sharing and thank you for your support!

> >

> > I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect her

and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

> > me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating

stress.

> > she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and

words but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

> > it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating

stress and flying off the handle.

> > she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

> > and then - the calm after the storm.

> > how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not

shut down?

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Notskipper,

You sound like such a great mom. Your girls know they can count on you to keep

them safe and that you will listen to them. I think that's so wonderful, that

you *did* turn out great, despite your mother's behavior.

Re: how one loves a parent who is bp and narcissistic. For me, it has to be

from a distance. When I get too close, I literally feel physically ill. My

chest would constrict, my stomach would hurt, etc.

Also, it took me a long time to realize that my mother had given me all she

could give me. I would still become hurt and outraged by her lack of this or

that and I guess in therapy and being here and reading about bp, I realized the

well was dry and I would not be getting the affection, validation, and

affirmation I craved from her.

I do love my mother but I don't feel any longer that tension of trying to make

her love me more. Not sure I'm explaining myself well, but there you have it.

I don't blame you for being careful and reserved with your mother. You're

protecting yourself and rightfully so.

Fiona

> > >

> > > I feel like I am going crazy. worse yet, my daughter wants me to protect

her and I can't always do that. my mom is super intuitive. she will have a

conversation with me - wanting to fix all my issues. yet intermixed with talk

that makes me think I am crazy is sane insightful advise! when she talks about

me - my issues, the stress i cause- she might as well be talking about herself.

crazy making. she flies off the handle then will sit me down and tell

> > > me in a calm rational way that I am flying off the handle and creating

stress.

> > > she was telling me how she takes responsibility for all her actions and

words but she knows that I don't. crazy making ! the only reason I know I am not

insane is that everyone (all family members) has the extract same experience.

> > > it is so hard. i want to scream and shout that it is she who is creating

stress and flying off the handle.

> > > she is verbally abusive and then blames me for being verbally abusive.

> > > and then - the calm after the storm.

> > > how to keep my head straight? how do i keep my heart open ? how do i not

shut down?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >