Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney General's Office) GA-0684

[Guest guest]

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-0684.htm

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state statute and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719GA.pdf

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air ambulance

service.

****

You have received this e-mail from the Office of the Attorney General because

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persons who have subscribed themselves via our website.

You may unsubscribe from this list, review your subscriptions, or change your

e-mail address on file, by logging into this page:

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(your e-mail address is your user-id).

You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

78711-2548.

We hope that you find this system useful. Please send any concerns or comments

you may have to: webmaster@...

[Guest guest]

It appears that the AG answered a very limited question that does not apply to

the proposed rule.? This potentially takes away DSHS's authority to regulate air

medical AT ALL.? If DSHS cannot mandate that an air medical provider get the

approval of the elected officials of jurisdictions they hope to sell

subscriptions in (which would prevent some from selling subscriptions in

counties where they are no where near...a problem that has occurred multiple

times in the past and continues today) or require that the literature they use

to recruit members does not tell potential patients to call them directly

instead of calling 911 (again...a problem here in Texas in the past and now

possibly again) because this affects their RATES....then what can we regulate?

We can't require them to have 4X4's or band-aids...because they cost money and

affect the rates charged...we can't require them to carry what is listed in

their protocols...because that affects the rates...we can't require them to have

a nurse and paramedic on board...or 2 paramedics...because that affects their

rates....

This is so stinking aggravating...some of the bigger name agencies are for this

regulation...it is the ones who have caused the problems in the past and I am

sure could again, that oppose this... " for the protection of the citizens of

Texas " .?

Well, here is a clue for you...the citizens of Texas would be safer if you kept

those machines on the ground.? This is my chief aggravation.? As an EMS

Director, someone in my district buys a subscription from an operator that is no

where near my service area...and then I call our local provider because they are

close (< 10 min)...and then they bill the patient and the patient marches into

my office (because there are no air providers officing in my area) and DEMANDS

to know why I didn't call the helicopter that they are members of.? It says in

this stuff I signed that they could come get me...yada yada yada....so now WE

have a dissatisfied customer...not the air medical service who sold

subscriptions they knew they could never service...yet they are the ones with

the money in the bank.

This is ridiculous.? Here are my suggestions:

1.? REMEMBER who the true customers of the air medical services are.? Unlike 911

ground providers, the patient is NOT the customer of the air medical

provider...WE ARE.? The customer does not make the choice of who gets called, we

do.? As such, we should DEMAND that the air medical providers we use do things

right, follow the safety procedures required and those recommended by NTSB or we

won't call them...and that if they are going to have a subscription

program...they play by the rules...and if they can't service their subscriber

because of distance or busy aircraft...that they pay the co-pay that would have

been waived to the air medical provider who actually made the flight.

2.? DSHS STOPS regulating air medical providers all together....why waste time

with such a fruitless effort.? It is evident the industry can take care of

itself...just make sure all your friends and loved ones get out of the air

medical business so that we stop losing our friends, colleagues and loved ones

to stupid preventable accidents which will only increase...let the leaders of

the organizations who are making the bad decisions and pressuring flight crews

to do stupid things make those flights....

3.? WE stop calling air medical.? Even if we stopped calling them for just seven

days...or 30 days...not only would we see that dead people wouldn't be piling up

in the streets, we would improve the self-esteem of our medics who would see

that the patient who got their bell rung and has amnesia of the events with

stable vital signs didn't suddenly have their head blow off 1/2 way to the

hospital...and that they were able to manage the patient for the 30, 60 or 90

minute trip to the hospital.?

Everyone be sure to come to the Air Medical Committee this Sunday in Ft.

Worth...this promises to be a lively meeting.

Dudley

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-0684.htm

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state statute and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719GA.pdf

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air ambulance

service.

****

You have received this e-mail from the Office of the Attorney General because

you have subscribed to this topic on our website. We do not sell our subscriber

list to anyone, and do not acquire lists from third parties; we only send to

persons who have subscribed themselves via our website.

You may unsubscribe from this list, review your subscriptions, or change your

e-mail address on file, by logging into this page:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/listserv/login.php

(your e-mail address is your user-id).

You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

78711-2548.

We hope that you find this system useful. Please send any concerns or comments

you may have to: webmaster@...

[Guest guest]

Maybe we look at setting up city/county ordinances to regulate air medical

like we do for all other providers. Then at least the city/county can

control who can come in and sell subscriptions, mandate a local

representative, etc., or for that matter control who can even fly into an

area. Just an idea!

Ricky Reeves

From: THEDUDMAN@...

To: texasems-l

Date: 11/20/2008 23:37

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Sent by: texasems-l

It appears that the AG answered a very limited question that does not apply to

the

proposed rule.? This potentially takes away DSHS's authority to regulate air

medical AT ALL.? If DSHS cannot mandate that an air medical provider get the

approval of the elected officials of jurisdictions they hope to sell

subscriptions

in (which would prevent some from selling subscriptions in counties where they

are

no where near...a problem that has occurred multiple times in the past and

continues today) or require that the literature they use to recruit members

does

not tell potential patients to call them directly instead of calling 911

(again...a problem here in Texas in the past and now possibly again) because

this

affects their RATES....then what can we regulate?

We can't require them to have 4X4's or band-aids...because they cost money and

affect the rates charged...we can't require them to carry what is listed in

their

protocols...because that affects the rates...we can't require them to have a

nurse

and paramedic on board...or 2 paramedics...because that affects their rates....

This is so stinking aggravating...some of the bigger name agencies are for this

regulation...it is the ones who have caused the problems in the past and I am

sure

could again, that oppose this... " for the protection of the citizens of Texas " .?

Well, here is a clue for you...the citizens of Texas would be safer if you kept

those machines on the ground.? This is my chief aggravation.? As an EMS

Director,

someone in my district buys a subscription from an operator that is no where

near

my service area...and then I call our local provider because they are close (<

10

min)...and then they bill the patient and the patient marches into my office

(because there are no air providers officing in my area) and DEMANDS to know

why I

didn't call the helicopter that they are members of.? It says in this stuff I

signed that they could come get me...yada yada yada....so now WE have a

dissatisfied customer...not the air medical service who sold subscriptions they

knew they could never service...yet they are the ones with the money in the

bank.

This is ridiculous.? Here are my suggestions:

1.? REMEMBER who the true customers of the air medical services are.? Unlike

911

ground providers, the patient is NOT the customer of the air medical

provider...WE

ARE.? The customer does not make the choice of who gets called, we do.? As

such,

we should DEMAND that the air medical providers we use do things right, follow

the

safety procedures required and those recommended by NTSB or we won't call

them...and that if they are going to have a subscription program...they play by

the rules...and if they can't service their subscriber because of distance or

busy

aircraft...that they pay the co-pay that would have been waived to the air

medical

provider who actually made the flight.

2.? DSHS STOPS regulating air medical providers all together....why waste time

with such a fruitless effort.? It is evident the industry can take care of

itself...just make sure all your friends and loved ones get out of the air

medical

business so that we stop losing our friends, colleagues and loved ones to

stupid

preventable accidents which will only increase...let the leaders of the

organizations who are making the bad decisions and pressuring flight crews to

do

stupid things make those flights....

3.? WE stop calling air medical.? Even if we stopped calling them for just

seven

days...or 30 days...not only would we see that dead people wouldn't be piling

up

in the streets, we would improve the self-esteem of our medics who would see

that

the patient who got their bell rung and has amnesia of the events with stable

vital signs didn't suddenly have their head blow off 1/2 way to the

hospital...and

that they were able to manage the patient for the 30, 60 or 90 minute trip to

the

hospital.?

Everyone be sure to come to the Air Medical Committee this Sunday in Ft.

Worth...this promises to be a lively meeting.

Dudley

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-0684.htm

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state statute and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719GA.pdf

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air ambulance

service.

****

You have received this e-mail from the Office of the Attorney General because

you have subscribed to this topic on our website. We do not sell our subscriber

list to anyone, and do not acquire lists from third parties; we only send to

persons who have subscribed themselves via our website.

You may unsubscribe from this list, review your subscriptions, or change your

e-mail address on file, by logging into this page:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/listserv/login.php

(your e-mail address is your user-id).

You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

78711-2548.

We hope that you find this system useful. Please send any concerns or comments

you may have to: webmaster@...

[Guest guest]

You can't. Federal laws trump local laws in this regard. Air Evac sued the

State of Tennessee over a similar issue and won in Federal court in

Nashville.

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of rreeves@...

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:31 AM

To: texasems-l

Cc: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Maybe we look at setting up city/county ordinances to regulate air medical

like we do for all other providers. Then at least the city/county can

control who can come in and sell subscriptions, mandate a local

representative, etc., or for that matter control who can even fly into an

area. Just an idea!

Ricky Reeves

From: THEDUDMAN@... <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Date: 11/20/2008 23:37

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Sent by: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

It appears that the AG answered a very limited question that does not apply

to the

proposed rule.? This potentially takes away DSHS's authority to regulate air

medical AT ALL.? If DSHS cannot mandate that an air medical provider get the

approval of the elected officials of jurisdictions they hope to sell

subscriptions

in (which would prevent some from selling subscriptions in counties where

they are

no where near...a problem that has occurred multiple times in the past and

continues today) or require that the literature they use to recruit members

does

not tell potential patients to call them directly instead of calling 911

(again...a problem here in Texas in the past and now possibly again) because

this

affects their RATES....then what can we regulate?

We can't require them to have 4X4's or band-aids...because they cost money

and

affect the rates charged...we can't require them to carry what is listed in

their

protocols...because that affects the rates...we can't require them to have a

nurse

and paramedic on board...or 2 paramedics...because that affects their

rates....

This is so stinking aggravating...some of the bigger name agencies are for

this

regulation...it is the ones who have caused the problems in the past and I

am sure

could again, that oppose this... " for the protection of the citizens of

Texas " .?

Well, here is a clue for you...the citizens of Texas would be safer if you

kept

those machines on the ground.? This is my chief aggravation.? As an EMS

Director,

someone in my district buys a subscription from an operator that is no where

near

my service area...and then I call our local provider because they are close

(< 10

min)...and then they bill the patient and the patient marches into my office

(because there are no air providers officing in my area) and DEMANDS to know

why I

didn't call the helicopter that they are members of.? It says in this stuff

I

signed that they could come get me...yada yada yada....so now WE have a

dissatisfied customer...not the air medical service who sold subscriptions

they

knew they could never service...yet they are the ones with the money in the

bank.

This is ridiculous.? Here are my suggestions:

1.? REMEMBER who the true customers of the air medical services are.? Unlike

911

ground providers, the patient is NOT the customer of the air medical

provider...WE

ARE.? The customer does not make the choice of who gets called, we do.? As

such,

we should DEMAND that the air medical providers we use do things right,

follow the

safety procedures required and those recommended by NTSB or we won't call

them...and that if they are going to have a subscription program...they play

by

the rules...and if they can't service their subscriber because of distance

or busy

aircraft...that they pay the co-pay that would have been waived to the air

medical

provider who actually made the flight.

2.? DSHS STOPS regulating air medical providers all together....why waste

time

with such a fruitless effort.? It is evident the industry can take care of

itself...just make sure all your friends and loved ones get out of the air

medical

business so that we stop losing our friends, colleagues and loved ones to

stupid

preventable accidents which will only increase...let the leaders of the

organizations who are making the bad decisions and pressuring flight crews

to do

stupid things make those flights....

3.? WE stop calling air medical.? Even if we stopped calling them for just

seven

days...or 30 days...not only would we see that dead people wouldn't be

piling up

in the streets, we would improve the self-esteem of our medics who would see

that

the patient who got their bell rung and has amnesia of the events with

stable

vital signs didn't suddenly have their head blow off 1/2 way to the

hospital...and

that they were able to manage the patient for the 30, 60 or 90 minute trip

to the

hospital.?

Everyone be sure to come to the Air Medical Committee this Sunday in Ft.

Worth...this promises to be a lively meeting.

Dudley

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-0684.ht

m

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state statute

and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air

ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719GA.p

df

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative

Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air

ambulance

service.

****

You have received this e-mail from the Office of the Attorney General

because

you have subscribed to this topic on our website. We do not sell our

subscriber

list to anyone, and do not acquire lists from third parties; we only send to

persons who have subscribed themselves via our website.

You may unsubscribe from this list, review your subscriptions, or change

your

e-mail address on file, by logging into this page:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/listserv/login.php

(your e-mail address is your user-id).

You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

78711-2548.

We hope that you find this system useful. Please send any concerns or

comments

you may have to: webmaster@...

<mailto:webmaster%40oag.state.tx.us>

[Guest guest]

, I know federal laws trump local/state as it concerns controlling

the air space, but can local governments regulate landing sites through

land use or traffic control regulations?

Barry

Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

Program Coordinator

Tobacco Prevention & Control

Texas Dept. of State Health Services

Barry.Sharp@...

PLEASE NOTE NEW MAILING ADDRESS:

P.O. Box 149347

Mail Code 2018

Austin, Texas 78714-9347

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Bledsoe, DO

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:09 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

You can't. Federal laws trump local laws in this regard. Air Evac sued

the

State of Tennessee over a similar issue and won in Federal court in

Nashville.

BEB

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

] On

Behalf Of rreeves@...

<mailto:rreeves%40cityoflewisville.com>

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:31 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Maybe we look at setting up city/county ordinances to regulate air

medical

like we do for all other providers. Then at least the city/county can

control who can come in and sell subscriptions, mandate a local

representative, etc., or for that matter control who can even fly into

an

area. Just an idea!

Ricky Reeves

From: THEDUDMAN@... <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Date: 11/20/2008 23:37

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Sent by: texasems-l

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

It appears that the AG answered a very limited question that does not

apply

to the

proposed rule.? This potentially takes away DSHS's authority to regulate

air

medical AT ALL.? If DSHS cannot mandate that an air medical provider get

the

approval of the elected officials of jurisdictions they hope to sell

subscriptions

in (which would prevent some from selling subscriptions in counties

where

they are

no where near...a problem that has occurred multiple times in the past

and

continues today) or require that the literature they use to recruit

members

does

not tell potential patients to call them directly instead of calling 911

(again...a problem here in Texas in the past and now possibly again)

because

this

affects their RATES....then what can we regulate?

We can't require them to have 4X4's or band-aids...because they cost

money

and

affect the rates charged...we can't require them to carry what is listed

in

their

protocols...because that affects the rates...we can't require them to

have a

nurse

and paramedic on board...or 2 paramedics...because that affects their

rates....

This is so stinking aggravating...some of the bigger name agencies are

for

this

regulation...it is the ones who have caused the problems in the past and

I

am sure

could again, that oppose this... " for the protection of the citizens of

Texas " .?

Well, here is a clue for you...the citizens of Texas would be safer if

you

kept

those machines on the ground.? This is my chief aggravation.? As an EMS

Director,

someone in my district buys a subscription from an operator that is no

where

near

my service area...and then I call our local provider because they are

close

(< 10

min)...and then they bill the patient and the patient marches into my

office

(because there are no air providers officing in my area) and DEMANDS to

know

why I

didn't call the helicopter that they are members of.? It says in this

stuff

I

signed that they could come get me...yada yada yada....so now WE have a

dissatisfied customer...not the air medical service who sold

subscriptions

they

knew they could never service...yet they are the ones with the money in

the

bank.

This is ridiculous.? Here are my suggestions:

1.? REMEMBER who the true customers of the air medical services are.?

Unlike

911

ground providers, the patient is NOT the customer of the air medical

provider...WE

ARE.? The customer does not make the choice of who gets called, we do.?

As

such,

we should DEMAND that the air medical providers we use do things right,

follow the

safety procedures required and those recommended by NTSB or we won't

call

them...and that if they are going to have a subscription program...they

play

by

the rules...and if they can't service their subscriber because of

distance

or busy

aircraft...that they pay the co-pay that would have been waived to the

air

medical

provider who actually made the flight.

2.? DSHS STOPS regulating air medical providers all together....why

waste

time

with such a fruitless effort.? It is evident the industry can take care

of

itself...just make sure all your friends and loved ones get out of the

air

medical

business so that we stop losing our friends, colleagues and loved ones

to

stupid

preventable accidents which will only increase...let the leaders of the

organizations who are making the bad decisions and pressuring flight

crews

to do

stupid things make those flights....

3.? WE stop calling air medical.? Even if we stopped calling them for

just

seven

days...or 30 days...not only would we see that dead people wouldn't be

piling up

in the streets, we would improve the self-esteem of our medics who would

see

that

the patient who got their bell rung and has amnesia of the events with

stable

vital signs didn't suddenly have their head blow off 1/2 way to the

hospital...and

that they were able to manage the patient for the 30, 60 or 90 minute

trip

to the

hospital.?

Everyone be sure to come to the Air Medical Committee this Sunday in Ft.

Worth...this promises to be a lively meeting.

Dudley

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-068

4.ht

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-06

84.ht>

m

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state

statute

and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air

ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719

GA.p

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ071

9GA.p>

df

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative

Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because

section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal

Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation

as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air

ambulance

service.

****

You have received this e-mail from the Office of the Attorney General

because

you have subscribed to this topic on our website. We do not sell our

subscriber

list to anyone, and do not acquire lists from third parties; we only

send to

persons who have subscribed themselves via our website.

You may unsubscribe from this list, review your subscriptions, or change

your

e-mail address on file, by logging into this page:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/listserv/login.php

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/listserv/login.php>

(your e-mail address is your user-id).

You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

78711-2548.

We hope that you find this system useful. Please send any concerns or

comments

you may have to: webmaster@...

<mailto:webmaster%40oag.state.tx.us>

<mailto:webmaster%40oag.state.tx.us>

[Guest guest]

I don’t know as I am not an attorney. The Nashville suit wanted certain

avionics on helicopters landing at Vanderbilt. It was probably an attempt

to keep smaller operators out (not sure the motives) but the argument was

stated to be about safety. The ruling was:

JUDGMENT

The court hereby awards judgment in favor of the plaintiff and declares that

the Federal

Aviation Act, 49 U.S.C. § 40101 (2000), et seq., and the regulations

promulgated thereunder

completely preempt the field of aircraft safety and that, therefore,

Tennessee Board of

Emergency Medical Services and the Commissioner of Health have no

constitutional capability

to require Air Evac by rule to utilize any particular avionics equipment.

Enter this 18th day of May 2007.”

I will have to defer to the attorneys on your question.

BEB

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Sharp, Barry

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:34 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

, I know federal laws trump local/state as it concerns controlling

the air space, but can local governments regulate landing sites through

land use or traffic control regulations?

Barry

Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

Program Coordinator

Tobacco Prevention & Control

Texas Dept. of State Health Services

Barry.Sharp@... <mailto:Barry.Sharp%40dshs.state.tx.us>

PLEASE NOTE NEW MAILING ADDRESS:

P.O. Box 149347

Mail Code 2018

Austin, Texas 78714-9347

________________________________

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> ]

On

Behalf Of Bledsoe, DO

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 9:09 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

You can't. Federal laws trump local laws in this regard. Air Evac sued

the

State of Tennessee over a similar issue and won in Federal court in

Nashville.

BEB

From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

] On

Behalf Of rreeves@...

<mailto:rreeves%40cityoflewisville.com>

<mailto:rreeves%40cityoflewisville.com>

Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 8:31 AM

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Maybe we look at setting up city/county ordinances to regulate air

medical

like we do for all other providers. Then at least the city/county can

control who can come in and sell subscriptions, mandate a local

representative, etc., or for that matter control who can even fly into

an

area. Just an idea!

Ricky Reeves

From: THEDUDMAN@... <mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

<mailto:THEDUDMAN%40aol.com>

To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

Date: 11/20/2008 23:37

Subject: Re: Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's Office) GA-0684

Sent by: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>

It appears that the AG answered a very limited question that does not

apply

to the

proposed rule.? This potentially takes away DSHS's authority to regulate

air

medical AT ALL.? If DSHS cannot mandate that an air medical provider get

the

approval of the elected officials of jurisdictions they hope to sell

subscriptions

in (which would prevent some from selling subscriptions in counties

where

they are

no where near...a problem that has occurred multiple times in the past

and

continues today) or require that the literature they use to recruit

members

does

not tell potential patients to call them directly instead of calling 911

(again...a problem here in Texas in the past and now possibly again)

because

this

affects their RATES....then what can we regulate?

We can't require them to have 4X4's or band-aids...because they cost

money

and

affect the rates charged...we can't require them to carry what is listed

in

their

protocols...because that affects the rates...we can't require them to

have a

nurse

and paramedic on board...or 2 paramedics...because that affects their

rates....

This is so stinking aggravating...some of the bigger name agencies are

for

this

regulation...it is the ones who have caused the problems in the past and

I

am sure

could again, that oppose this... " for the protection of the citizens of

Texas " .?

Well, here is a clue for you...the citizens of Texas would be safer if

you

kept

those machines on the ground.? This is my chief aggravation.? As an EMS

Director,

someone in my district buys a subscription from an operator that is no

where

near

my service area...and then I call our local provider because they are

close

(< 10

min)...and then they bill the patient and the patient marches into my

office

(because there are no air providers officing in my area) and DEMANDS to

know

why I

didn't call the helicopter that they are members of.? It says in this

stuff

I

signed that they could come get me...yada yada yada....so now WE have a

dissatisfied customer...not the air medical service who sold

subscriptions

they

knew they could never service...yet they are the ones with the money in

the

bank.

This is ridiculous.? Here are my suggestions:

1.? REMEMBER who the true customers of the air medical services are.?

Unlike

911

ground providers, the patient is NOT the customer of the air medical

provider...WE

ARE.? The customer does not make the choice of who gets called, we do.?

As

such,

we should DEMAND that the air medical providers we use do things right,

follow the

safety procedures required and those recommended by NTSB or we won't

call

them...and that if they are going to have a subscription program...they

play

by

the rules...and if they can't service their subscriber because of

distance

or busy

aircraft...that they pay the co-pay that would have been waived to the

air

medical

provider who actually made the flight.

2.? DSHS STOPS regulating air medical providers all together....why

waste

time

with such a fruitless effort.? It is evident the industry can take care

of

itself...just make sure all your friends and loved ones get out of the

air

medical

business so that we stop losing our friends, colleagues and loved ones

to

stupid

preventable accidents which will only increase...let the leaders of the

organizations who are making the bad decisions and pressuring flight

crews

to do

stupid things make those flights....

3.? WE stop calling air medical.? Even if we stopped calling them for

just

seven

days...or 30 days...not only would we see that dead people wouldn't be

piling up

in the streets, we would improve the self-esteem of our medics who would

see

that

the patient who got their bell rung and has amnesia of the events with

stable

vital signs didn't suddenly have their head blow off 1/2 way to the

hospital...and

that they were able to manage the patient for the 30, 60 or 90 minute

trip

to the

hospital.?

Everyone be sure to come to the Air Medical Committee this Sunday in Ft.

Worth...this promises to be a lively meeting.

Dudley

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-068

4.ht

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-06

84.ht>

m

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state

statute

and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air

ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719

GA.p

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ071

9GA.p>

df

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative

Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because

section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal

Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation

as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air

ambulance

service.

****

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[Guest guest]

Ricky:

Regardless, you'd still be dealing with the same issue.? The Federal aviation

laws and regulations would also preempt city/county ordinances.

The solution may end up being getting the aeromedical services removed from the

Federal laws that govern airlines.

-Wes Ogilvie

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-0684.htm

Re: Whether the federal Airline Deregulation Act preempts the state statute and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719GA.pdf

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air ambulance

service.

****

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you have subscribed to this topic on our website. We do not sell our subscriber

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You may also call () or write: P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX

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[Guest guest]

While the standard disclaimer of not having an attorney-client relationship and

not providing legal advice applies, I would submit that this Federal District

Court case from Tennessee (while not binding on Texas courts) and the recent

Texas Attorney General opinion make it relatively clear that only the Federal

government can regulate aeromedical providers as they are considered subject to

the Federal Aviation Act.  The solution would be either (1) Federal

regulation of aeromedical or (2) Federal legislation making aeromedical

providers exempt from the Federal Aviation Act for certain purposes.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, LP

-Attorney at Law/Licensed Paramedic

-Austin, Texas

Fwd: Notification of Opinion (Texas Attorney

General's

Office) GA-0684

Discuss....

-Wes Ogilvie

Good afternoon:

We issued 1 Attorney General Opinion: GA-0684 (RQ-0719-GA)

Opinion No. GA-0684

Go to:

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-068

4.ht

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2008/htm/ga-06

84.ht>

m

Re: Whether the federal Airline20Deregulation Act preempts the state

statute

and

regulation authorizing an EMS subscription program as applied to air

ambulances

(RQ-0719-GA)

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ0719

GA.p

<http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/rq/2008/pdf/RQ071

9GA.p>

df

Summary: Pursuant to section 157.11(l) of Title 25, Texas Administrative

Code,

emergency medical service providers may establish a subscription program

allowing members a reduced rate for air ambulance services. Because

section

157.11(l) relates to charges for air ambulance services, the federal

Airline

Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) preempts it as to air carriers providing

interstate air ambulance services. The ADA preempts the state regulation

as

applied to a ground ambulance operated as an integral part of an air

ambulance

service.

****

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because

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0concerns or

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