investigate? or bury the past?

[Guest guest]

I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood, and trying to

decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete artifacts. If I understand and

remember correctly I had all the signs of an attachment disorder as a small

child (avoided eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl on all fours and

meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked out. At that

time I refused to speak to adults other than my parents (selective mutism), so I

was silent. He was asking me questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them,

which made me panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word by

accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened the door and let me

go back to my nada outside. I still remember being totally astonished and

blindsided by his reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one

ever responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's still in storage

somewhere. My nada tells that story as evidence of what a fantastic loving

mother she was, taking her weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that

I was " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls her eyes and

says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and laughs. Now I want to know what

he really said, and what he thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly while I have the

chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my parents' marriage therapist at the

time. I know he can't reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me

an inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I pursue this, or is

that just mucking around for no benefit?

[Guest guest]

Wow. I don't want to tell you what to do at all, but that is very intriguing.

He sounds like a very empathic man. I would make an appointment. It would be

interesting to get his perspective. Can anyone see a reason not to?

Wow, about your attachment disorder and not being able to talk to strangers,

etc. I have one too, but didn't manifest like that. How did you grow out of

being a cat? And btw I wanted to be Dr. Doolittle in the worst way, so I'm sure

we would've gotten along. ; )

SR

[Guest guest]

If I recall properly, I've read that its not uncommon for children to either

create imaginary friends to play with, or to pretend to be other people or

animals as part of imaginative play.

But like you both, I took that further and consciously wished to be *anybody*

else other than myself. As a very young child, I would be a particular

character like " Jiminy Cricket " for days at a time, according to nada, and would

not answer her unless she called me by that name.

I remember wanting to wear my Halloween costume or other costumes at times other

than Halloween, and nada shaming me for it.

I guess I was convinced that it wasn't really a good thing to be me, because I

was perpetually being criticized and pushed away and shamed; so I guess my

child-mind figured that if I could really *be* some other person or character,

my nada might be happy with me.

My earliest memories around this theme are wanting to be a girl skater who was a

regular character on a live-action children's TV show: Her name was Melody and

she was tall, blonde, and always wore a skating costume with a musical note on

it. So very NOT me; I was short and had brown hair and was rather

uncoordinated. She was my ideal.

So, I can relate to wishing to be some other person or character or animal as a

child, very much. Rather desperately, in fact. In later childhood I instead

escaped into books, and to a lesser degree, TV and movies.

-Annie

>

> Wow. I don't want to tell you what to do at all, but that is very intriguing.

He sounds like a very empathic man. I would make an appointment. It would be

interesting to get his perspective. Can anyone see a reason not to?

>

> Wow, about your attachment disorder and not being able to talk to strangers,

etc. I have one too, but didn't manifest like that. How did you grow out of

being a cat? And btw I wanted to be Dr. Doolittle in the worst way, so I'm sure

we would've gotten along. ; )

>

> SR

>

[Guest guest]

If you want to know, I think you should pursue it because if you

don't you're going to keep wondering about it. The chart may be

long gone and he may not remember you, but you'll never know if

you don't try. I think it would be nice to tell him what you've

told us about how he made you feel too.

At 04:00 PM 03/15/2012 elmtree_speaks wrote:

>I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

>and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

>artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

>the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

>eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

>decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

>on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

>

>I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

>out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

>parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

>questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

>panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

>by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

>the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

>remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

>reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

>responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

>

>So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

>still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

>evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

>weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

> " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

>her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

>laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

>thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

>

>The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

>while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

>parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

>reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

>inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

>pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I used to pray for a different personality every day. that lasted into my

teenage years. Nada used to tell me my bad qualities in a way that was very

sneaky. " if you had not done/said ____ then that person would be your friend. "

she always reassured me that I was wonderful to her, and that I would be a

wonderful adult (ah crap I must not be an adult yet)so I felt loved and

supported and like a worthless piece of crap at the same time. those feelings

were ignored though because they were quickly gas-lighted if they ever showed

up. I have quite the " imagination "

tainted love.

I used to bury myself in books too. Nada frequently shames (still a problem) me

for my tastes. covertly of course. " I think it's great you read those kinds of

books, most of us read for fun and to escape. it is good that you like to

learn. " " no one likes that but you " etc. all said in sickly sweet condescending

way. ick.

Meikjn

> >

> > Wow. I don't want to tell you what to do at all, but that is very

intriguing. He sounds like a very empathic man. I would make an appointment.

It would be interesting to get his perspective. Can anyone see a reason not to?

> >

> > Wow, about your attachment disorder and not being able to talk to strangers,

etc. I have one too, but didn't manifest like that. How did you grow out of

being a cat? And btw I wanted to be Dr. Doolittle in the worst way, so I'm sure

we would've gotten along. ; )

> >

> > SR

> >

>

[Guest guest]

ok back to the original question. sure why not? for me convenience would be a

factor. I have people I wonder about too. not sure what I want to do either.

Meikjn

> >I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

> >and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

> >artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

> >the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

> >eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

> >decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

> >on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

> >

> >I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

> >out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

> >parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

> >questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

> >panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

> >by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

> >the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

> >remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

> >reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

> >responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

> >

> >So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

> >still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

> >evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

> >weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

> > " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

> >her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

> >laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

> >thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

> >

> >The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

> >while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

> >parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

> >reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

> >inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

> >pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

That's what I was thinking, too. The chart has probably since been

shredded, and it's been a while so I don't know if he remembers anything or

not. But it's worth a try if you want to.

I did something similar a while back. We had a parish priest who knew our

family fairly well. He was even trying to convince my brother that he might

want to be a priest, since he was such a good altar server. As time went

on, he got sent to Rome to be chaplain at a seminary, my family started

going elsewhere, and I went to a completely different parish myself....

A couple years after being disowned and going NC, I found his email

address, and emailed him, asking him if he ever noticed the abuse by my

fada, or noticed anything wrong. I also told him that there have been many

times where I wanted to run away and seek his help and counsel at the

rectory, but was afraid to because I wasn't sure if he'd believe me.

He said he didn't know or suspect abuse. My fada is a rather charismatic

guy, and it was always, " put on a good face for the public " so I wasn't

surprised. But he was very kind about it, validated my emotions, and hoped

that things might resolve itself eventually. I don't think he really

understood the extent of my dad's personality disorders, but he didn't try

to dismiss it as some of my relatives did. And I think he promised to pray

for my siblings.

It worked out for me, a little bit, and I hope you might find some info

yourself.

That reminds me. I know I homeschooled for most years, but for a short

while I was in public school. I wonder if my 3rd grade teacher suspected

anything. Hmm.

> **

>

>

> If you want to know, I think you should pursue it because if you

> don't you're going to keep wondering about it. The chart may be

> long gone and he may not remember you, but you'll never know if

> you don't try. I think it would be nice to tell him what you've

> told us about how he made you feel too.

>

> At 04:00 PM 03/15/2012 elmtree_speaks wrote:

> >I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

> >and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

> >artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

> >the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

> >eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

> >decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

> >on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

> >

> >I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

> >out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

> >parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

> >questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

> >panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

> >by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

> >the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

> >remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

> >reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

> >responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

> >

> >So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

> >still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

> >evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

> >weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

> > " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

> >her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

> >laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

> >thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

> >

> >The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

> >while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

> >parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

> >reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

> >inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

> >pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And that reminds me. Sis #1 was very much a dog for a while, barking and

panting and such. Bro #2 was a cat. He even had his own cat language--for

years. Bro #3 was a monkey, and had his own monkey language. I don't know

if he grew out of it yet, since I last saw him when he was 5. Sis #2 was

quite simply a sweet caregiver--no animal there.

So, the animal thing sounded so familiar when you spoke of being a cat.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Holly Lipschultz <

hollymichellebyers@...> wrote:

> That's what I was thinking, too. The chart has probably since been

> shredded, and it's been a while so I don't know if he remembers anything or

> not. But it's worth a try if you want to.

>

> I did something similar a while back. We had a parish priest who knew our

> family fairly well. He was even trying to convince my brother that he might

> want to be a priest, since he was such a good altar server. As time went

> on, he got sent to Rome to be chaplain at a seminary, my family started

> going elsewhere, and I went to a completely different parish myself....

>

> A couple years after being disowned and going NC, I found his email

> address, and emailed him, asking him if he ever noticed the abuse by my

> fada, or noticed anything wrong. I also told him that there have been many

> times where I wanted to run away and seek his help and counsel at the

> rectory, but was afraid to because I wasn't sure if he'd believe me.

>

> He said he didn't know or suspect abuse. My fada is a rather charismatic

> guy, and it was always, " put on a good face for the public " so I wasn't

> surprised. But he was very kind about it, validated my emotions, and hoped

> that things might resolve itself eventually. I don't think he really

> understood the extent of my dad's personality disorders, but he didn't try

> to dismiss it as some of my relatives did. And I think he promised to pray

> for my siblings.

>

> It worked out for me, a little bit, and I hope you might find some info

> yourself.

>

> That reminds me. I know I homeschooled for most years, but for a short

> while I was in public school. I wonder if my 3rd grade teacher suspected

> anything. Hmm.

>

>

>

>> **

>>

>>

>> If you want to know, I think you should pursue it because if you

>> don't you're going to keep wondering about it. The chart may be

>> long gone and he may not remember you, but you'll never know if

>> you don't try. I think it would be nice to tell him what you've

>> told us about how he made you feel too.

>>

>> At 04:00 PM 03/15/2012 elmtree_speaks wrote:

>> >I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

>> >and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

>> >artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

>> >the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

>> >eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

>> >decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

>> >on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

>> >

>> >I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

>> >out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

>> >parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

>> >questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

>> >panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

>> >by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

>> >the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

>> >remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

>> >reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

>> >responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

>> >

>> >So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

>> >still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

>> >evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

>> >weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

>> > " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

>> >her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

>> >laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

>> >thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

>> >

>> >The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

>> >while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

>> >parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

>> >reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

>> >inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

>> >pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

>>

>> --

>> Katrina

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's a good question. Since you only met the person once, I'm not sure your

file would be very enlightening. But I do understand your curiosity about this.

For years my nada took me to doctors, had horrid tests done on me. Of course the

doctor never tells the child what they think is going on or what the results

showed. So I grew up thinking I had various health problems according to my

nada. Did I actually have epilepsy? Did I have skin cancer? So on and so on. I

need to know these things for my own medical history. But I don't even know

where to start looking. We moved around so much and I'm not able to recall every

doctor's name or hospital name. Some things we have to let go.

>

> I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood, and trying to

decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete artifacts. If I understand and

remember correctly I had all the signs of an attachment disorder as a small

child (avoided eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl on all fours and

meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

>

> I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked out. At that

time I refused to speak to adults other than my parents (selective mutism), so I

was silent. He was asking me questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them,

which made me panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word by

accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened the door and let me

go back to my nada outside. I still remember being totally astonished and

blindsided by his reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one

ever responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

>

> So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's still in storage

somewhere. My nada tells that story as evidence of what a fantastic loving

mother she was, taking her weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that

I was " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls her eyes and

says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and laughs. Now I want to know what

he really said, and what he thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

>

> The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly while I have

the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my parents' marriage therapist at

the time. I know he can't reveal anything of that, but my own record might give

me an inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I pursue this, or

is that just mucking around for no benefit?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the stories everyone- glad to know I wasn't the only one having a

species identity crisis. I don't really remember being a cat, but nada sure

does. Good for you Holly. That took guts and I'm glad you got some support

from the priest. I often think that the normal appearance of my PD parents was

one of the most damaging aspects. Since they never (or rarely) displayed any

crazy or abusive behavior in front of anyone else, I just assumed that all

people raged at their loved ones in private.

The shrink, however, should have noticed. He'll definitely remember who I am.

He treated my parents when I was small, and then saw my autistic brother for

years when we were teenagers. His wife was my pediatrician. I saw him one

other time, when I was about 22 and nada was really traumatizing me. I insisted

we all go, and he actually defended me, which backfired because nada went on a

self righteous rant.

I'm just trying to get up the courage to call him. I know he can't tell me

anything about my parents, but he can give me an opinion as to what was

happening to me when I was four. I'm hesitating because I'm afraid I'll just

start crying immediately. But I'll regret it if I don't.

> > >I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

> > >and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

> > >artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

> > >the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

> > >eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

> > >decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

> > >on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

> > >

> > >I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

> > >out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

> > >parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

> > >questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

> > >panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

> > >by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

> > >the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

> > >remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

> > >reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

> > >responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

> > >

> > >So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

> > >still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

> > >evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

> > >weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

> > > " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

> > >her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

> > >laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

> > >thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

> > >

> > >The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

> > >while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

> > >parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

> > >reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

> > >inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

> > >pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you have great courage inside you, elmtree If you feel like

asking him might help, the crying will be worth it, just for the knowledge.

I cried when I read the priest's emailed response. And I felt so much

better, oddly enough, just to have that knowledge. Even though he didn't

notice, just the fact I was able to find out helped. Especially since I

remember very little of childhood unless it's triggered, it's so nice to

have that one clue filled in.

I agree, it is so incredibly damaging when the PD parent puts on a good

face for the public. And same here about thinking that all families rage at

each other in private! I was freaking SCARED of all fathers because I

thought I had to walk on eggshells around them. I sometimes still do around

my FIL even though he has repeatedly shown himself to be an incredibly

stable and supportive person. It's just hard to get past that conditioned

response. And it was exactly why I didn't want to get married. I thought

all men were like fada, and I didn't want any part of that. Thank God my

husband proved that wrong.

Hugs

On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 9:28 PM, elmtree_speaks wrote:

> **

>

>

> Thanks for the stories everyone- glad to know I wasn't the only one having

> a species identity crisis. I don't really remember being a cat, but nada

> sure does. Good for you Holly. That took guts and I'm glad you got some

> support from the priest. I often think that the normal appearance of my PD

> parents was one of the most damaging aspects. Since they never (or rarely)

> displayed any crazy or abusive behavior in front of anyone else, I just

> assumed that all people raged at their loved ones in private.

>

> The shrink, however, should have noticed. He'll definitely remember who I

> am. He treated my parents when I was small, and then saw my autistic

> brother for years when we were teenagers. His wife was my pediatrician. I

> saw him one other time, when I was about 22 and nada was really

> traumatizing me. I insisted we all go, and he actually defended me, which

> backfired because nada went on a self righteous rant.

>

> I'm just trying to get up the courage to call him. I know he can't tell me

> anything about my parents, but he can give me an opinion as to what was

> happening to me when I was four. I'm hesitating because I'm afraid I'll

> just start crying immediately. But I'll regret it if I don't.

>

>

> > > >I've been doing some processing of my dysfunctional childhood,

> > > >and trying to decided if I ought to go dig up some concrete

> > > >artifacts. If I understand and remember correctly I had all

> > > >the signs of an attachment disorder as a small child (avoided

> > > >eye contact, afraid of strangers, etc). When I was four I

> > > >decided that I wasn't a child but a cat, and would often crawl

> > > >on all fours and meow. So nada took me to a shrink.

> > > >

> > > >I remember the shrink. I saw him once, and was totally freaked

> > > >out. At that time I refused to speak to adults other than my

> > > >parents (selective mutism), so I was silent. He was asking me

> > > >questions and I did say " yeah " to one of them, which made me

> > > >panic. He saw that, and very gently said " did you say a word

> > > >by accident? do you want to leave? " I nodded, and he opened

> > > >the door and let me go back to my nada outside. I still

> > > >remember being totally astonished and blindsided by his

> > > >reaction. No one ever spoke to me that kindly, and no one ever

> > > >responded to my feelings and wishes like that.

> > > >

> > > >So I think I want to try to get my hands on my chart, if it's

> > > >still in storage somewhere. My nada tells that story as

> > > >evidence of what a fantastic loving mother she was, taking her

> > > >weird child to the shrink. She says he told her that I was

> > > > " just mad " that they'd had two more kids, and then she rolls

> > > >her eyes and says " sibling rivalry " in a singsong voice and

> > > >laughs. Now I want to know what he really said, and what he

> > > >thought was going on, and what he told her to do.

> > > >

> > > >The shrink's in his 70's now, so I figure I better act quickly

> > > >while I have the chance. To add to the intrigue, he was my

> > > >parents' marriage therapist at the time. I know he can't

> > > >reveal anything of that, but my own record might give me an

> > > >inkling of what it looked like from the outside. Should I

> > > >pursue this, or is that just mucking around for no benefit?

> > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >