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Just need to vent:

My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here helping

her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very pleasant to be

around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the snarky comments

she has towards us.

I guess I'm just triggered because:

a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over because

they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any way.

Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or something.

B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never

allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any

time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault.

But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and

everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting

sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh.

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I know what you mean. When I was little, I learned to not ever mention if I

felt sick or had injured myself, because I'd get screamed at and blamed or I'd

see contempt on my nada's face, instead of being comforted. My illnesses or

injuries were always my own fault, apparently, and I was deliberately piling

more inconvenience on her.

Nada, to give her credit, became somewhat better at demonstrating empathetic

behaviors once I became an adult, but she was truly NOT cut out to be the mother

of small children.

I have no idea if she was genuinely feeling empathy or if she had simply learned

over time how to mimic empathetic behaviors; I'll never know. I noticed that

in the new DSM-V diagnostic criteria for bpd, they have included " lack of

empathy. " So, the DSM-V is stating that bpds are like npds in that way. I buy

it.

But showing indifference, or contempt, or shrieking rage, blaming and shaming

instead of offering comfort to a small child who is already hurting and scared

is both traumatizing and cruel, in my opinion.

-Annie

>

> Just need to vent:

>

> My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here

helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very

pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the

snarky comments she has towards us.

>

> I guess I'm just triggered because:

> a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over

because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any

way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or

something.

>

> B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never

allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any

time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault.

But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and

everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting

sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh.

>

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Recently my wife and I went on a famil;y vacation for the first time in

years. It was her baby sister's graduation from college and we all went to

support her. Just as we were leaving my wife became ill. She called to

tell her mom as a notice that she wasn't feeling good, (our daughters had

been sick with strep a week before). Her Mom proceeded to tell her that

" You had better get over it quick. Geez, you have to get sick just before

a trip. " Then hung up. Turned out my wife had bronchitis.

My wife had a miscarriage while on the trip. She told her dad and he was

semi-sympathetic. 3 days later she asked her mom if she knew and her reply

was " Yes. And if you keep bleeding like that you should see a doctor as

soon as you get back. " The she turned and walked away. Zero empathy.

JW

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:25 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> I know what you mean. When I was little, I learned to not ever mention if

> I felt sick or had injured myself, because I'd get screamed at and blamed

> or I'd see contempt on my nada's face, instead of being comforted. My

> illnesses or injuries were always my own fault, apparently, and I was

> deliberately piling more inconvenience on her.

>

> Nada, to give her credit, became somewhat better at demonstrating

> empathetic behaviors once I became an adult, but she was truly NOT cut out

> to be the mother of small children.

> I have no idea if she was genuinely feeling empathy or if she had simply

> learned over time how to mimic empathetic behaviors; I'll never know. I

> noticed that in the new DSM-V diagnostic criteria for bpd, they have

> included " lack of empathy. " So, the DSM-V is stating that bpds are like

> npds in that way. I buy it.

>

> But showing indifference, or contempt, or shrieking rage, blaming and

> shaming instead of offering comfort to a small child who is already hurting

> and scared is both traumatizing and cruel, in my opinion.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Just need to vent:

> >

> > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here

> helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very

> pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off

> the snarky comments she has towards us.

> >

> > I guess I'm just triggered because:

> > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over

> because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out

> in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be

> slapped or something.

> >

> > B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was

> never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes

> through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed

> and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life

> needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never

> their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when

> they did. Sigh.

> >

>

>

>

--

In Victus Maneo

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I'm so sorry, your poor wife. Taking a trip to please her parents, then having a

miscarriage during the trip and then getting cool-to-tepid sympathy from them,

and no comfort, no hugs when she was grieving. I'm glad you were there for her.

That's one thing I think the new DSM criteria is right about: zero empathy. My

own speculation is that my nada simply learned how to mimic behaviors that

sounded empathetic, but she just didn't really " get " empathy. She was able to

show what appeared to be empathy when others were watching, when it made her

look good, sort of as a public gesture, but in private it kind of evaporated.

I read an article recently, speculating that possibly borderline pd could be the

female phenotypic expression of psychopathy. I hope more research is done on

this theory.

I think if it were shown to be true, it would be clearer that children are in

real danger of emotional abuse, neglect, physical abuse, and other abuse by a

bpd parent, and in divorce cases a diagnosis of bpd should be a serious factor

in determining shared or sole custody, supervised visitation, etc.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Just need to vent:

> > >

> > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here

> > helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very

> > pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off

> > the snarky comments she has towards us.

> > >

> > > I guess I'm just triggered because:

> > > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over

> > because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out

> > in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be

> > slapped or something.

> > >

> > > B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was

> > never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes

> > through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed

> > and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life

> > needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never

> > their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when

> > they did. Sigh.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> In Victus Maneo

>

>

>

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when I broke my back while ice skating, my mom did not bring me to the hospital.

yet, throughout my teens, she would bring me to the hospital for wheezing.

she has aches and pains constantly thru her life that is always a very big deal.

apparently, a broken back didn't rate high enough on her insensitivity scale to

warrant helping me out with it.

i doubt i will ever fully understand all of this sickness...and unfortunately i

also doubt that i will ever fully recover from her abuse.

amy

barrycove@...

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this reminds me of my mother - i cant stop reading and re-reading your posts. I

had TERRIBLE allergic reaction to poison ivy for my first day of 8th grade. She

made me go  to school swollen, covered from head to toe in  rash, itchy,

scratching, huge welts up and down my body etc.. She refused to take me to a

doctor -doc was too expensive and i " didnt need it "  even though the doctor was

less than a mile from our house and from my school. A friends mother (who was a

nurse, funny enough) drove me home from school that day and took me directly to

the doctor  where I had to use the receptionists phone to call my mother.  i

remember my mother was ANNOYED when she heard i was at the doctor. My friends

mom felt so badly for me - my mom could have cared less. When my mom arrived she

became nervous when she saw the poison ivy had spread to my face, she worried

that it would scar my face and mar my looks. NARCISSIST.

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I think a lot of the posts here are about bpd parents who were too severely

disordered to have been raising a child.

Note that I did not say " too severely disordered to be having children. " I

think that people should be able to have children if they want to. A mildly to

moderately affected bpd person can be a good parent IF there is another non-pd

adult in the home who can supervise and monitor the bpd parent pretty much 24/7,

IF the person with bpd is aware that he or she has a mental disorder and accepts

personal responsibility for their own behaviors, and if the person with bpd IS

ACTIVELY IN THERAPY AND TRYING TO GET BETTER.

But that's a hell of a lot of " Ifs. "

To me, the very criteria that define and diagnose borderline pd preclude a

person from being in a care-giving position for young children. The fact that

borderline pd dysfunctional thinking and behaviors are most often manifested in

intimate relationships means that its the child of someone with bpd who is at

the most risk for emotional damage.

If a person is not capable of empathy, is unable to perceive others as real,

separate, individual human beings with rights and feelings and instead perceives

them as objects or possessions, is easily triggered into rage, only perceives

other people as " all good " or " all bad " , is easily stressed and triggered into

delusional or paranoid thinking (quasi-psychotic states), is highly impulsive,

has a sense of entitlement to be massively self-absorbed, has a tendency to

self-harm or make suicide threats... then that person is not qualified or

suitable to be a care-giver for children!!!

Its absurd; nobody would hire a nanny with those traits and behaviors! But

innocent, helpless children are left in the care of such individuals " because

she's the child's mothhh-e-e-r-r-r. "

Not providing proper medical care for one's own child should be a huge waving

red flag that something is badly wrong, and that the child needs to be rescued,

in my opinion.

At least we don't leave children with pedophile parents anymore, if and when it

is discovered that a parent is a child predator; I guess it will just take more

time before its just as obvious that children should not be left with moderately

to severely dysfunctional bpd parents either.

-Annie

>

> when I broke my back while ice skating, my mom did not bring me to the

hospital.

> yet, throughout my teens, she would bring me to the hospital for wheezing.

>

>

> she has aches and pains constantly thru her life that is always a very big

deal.

> apparently, a broken back didn't rate high enough on her insensitivity scale

to warrant helping me out with it.

>

>

> i doubt i will ever fully understand all of this sickness...and unfortunately

i also doubt that i will ever fully recover from her abuse.

>

>

> amy

>

>

> barrycove@...

>

>

>

>

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Amy,

I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want your

story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that happened.

It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in such an inhuman

fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

Sue

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Amy,

Your story touched me as well.

I broke my arm when I was a little kid and wasn't believed either. I was brought

to the hospital 24 hours later and given a poor patch up job. My arm is

permanently crooked now. Of course, Nada always said it looked like a small

fall...it seemed like I was being a " wuss " as usual.

Even though I was just a kid, I can vividly remember trying to make it through

the night with a BROKEN ARM and no one would take me seriously. Nada told me to

stop it and go back to bed. Nada was particularly offended because the hospital

treated her like SHE did something wrong, as if she was a child abuser who had

broken it herself. It amazes me that these BPs cannot put anything into

perspective.

I think about these things, and I get even more mad that Nada thinks that I

should be her old age servant. Are you kidding me???

Natalia

>

>

>

>

>

> Amy,

> I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want your

story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that happened.

It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in such an inhuman

fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> Sue

>

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It seems to me that this lack of empathy and almost intentionally

destructive behavior is always there. My wife's parents put her i the

drawer of a dresser to sleep as a baby in 10 degree weather on the sun

porch. They laugh about it now as if it is funny. I still get furious

when i think about it.

Her mom broke a hairbrush over her head as a little girl because she

wouldn't sit still to get pony tails put in.

The list goes on...

> **

>

>

>

>

> Amy,

>

> Your story touched me as well.

>

> I broke my arm when I was a little kid and wasn't believed either. I was

> brought to the hospital 24 hours later and given a poor patch up job. My

> arm is permanently crooked now. Of course, Nada always said it looked like

> a small fall...it seemed like I was being a " wuss " as usual.

>

> Even though I was just a kid, I can vividly remember trying to make it

> through the night with a BROKEN ARM and no one would take me seriously.

> Nada told me to stop it and go back to bed. Nada was particularly offended

> because the hospital treated her like SHE did something wrong, as if she

> was a child abuser who had broken it herself. It amazes me that these BPs

> cannot put anything into perspective.

>

> I think about these things, and I get even more mad that Nada thinks that

> I should be her old age servant. Are you kidding me???

>

> Natalia

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Amy,

> > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want

> your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that

> happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in

> such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> > Sue

> >

>

>

>

--

In Victus Maneo

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I agree, some parents are intentionally and repetitively cruel; I think that

level of abuse belongs in the " psychopathic " category, and in some cases falls

into the level of criminal child abuse or criminal child neglect.

But then, I think that children should have the same rights as adults to

prosecute when they are physically assaulted, raped, starved, subjected to

medical neglect or subjected to emotional torture by their own parents or

caregivers, have the right to sue for a " divorce " from parents deemed to be

unfit, and receive financial compensation/ financial support from the

ex-parents, and careful assignment to a suitable care-giving environment such

as a relative or a good boarding school.

I'm sure it means a great deal to your wife that you feel angry on her behalf,

for her having been subjected to criminal child neglect and abuse from her

parents. You are a great guy, to feel so protective of her.

-Annie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Amy,

> > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want

> > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that

> > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in

> > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> > > Sue

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> In Victus Maneo

>

>

>

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Thank Annie, She is a wonderful person determined to break the cycle. Her

grandmother (her nada's mom) is supportive of her as well.

It seems to me that the desire to " control " random events is a

characteristic as well. I.E. the visit to the doctor, inflict harm,

dominate conversation or outcome. My wife suffered form eating disorders

when I met her and slowly brought herself out of them. She is a remarkable

strong person. I think that everyone on these boards should be to

acknowledge to themselves the innate strength it takes to (1) recognize the

problem (2) want to break the cycle and (3) reach out for help. I applaud

everyone here!!! I cannot stress that enough. I am honored to associate

with people striving everyday to improve themselves and in most situations,

their family's lives.

JW

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:21 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> I agree, some parents are intentionally and repetitively cruel; I think

> that level of abuse belongs in the " psychopathic " category, and in some

> cases falls into the level of criminal child abuse or criminal child

> neglect.

>

> But then, I think that children should have the same rights as adults to

> prosecute when they are physically assaulted, raped, starved, subjected to

> medical neglect or subjected to emotional torture by their own parents or

> caregivers, have the right to sue for a " divorce " from parents deemed to be

> unfit, and receive financial compensation/ financial support from the

> ex-parents, and careful assignment to a suitable care-giving environment

> such as a relative or a good boarding school.

>

> I'm sure it means a great deal to your wife that you feel angry on her

> behalf, for her having been subjected to criminal child neglect and abuse

> from her parents. You are a great guy, to feel so protective of her.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Amy,

> > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't

> want

> > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that

> > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were

> treated in

> > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> > > > Sue

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > In Victus Maneo

> >

> >

> >

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Been there! Done that! And I thought I was all alone! So nice to know I have

comrades in pain who have survived a BPD childhood. We just have to love each

other. When I was in my thirties we vacationed with my husband's family. His

sister also in her 30's got the flu and was in the bathroom throwing up and my

mother-in-law went to the bathroom and held her forehead just the way she did

when my sister in law was little. I wanted to cry when I saw that because that

was a tenderness I never knew. Sit down and write all the good things you know

about yourself to be true. Since we have to parent ourselves we might as well be

loving parents and love ourselves the way my mother in law loved her kids. Not

only are we parenting ourselves we had poor role models to start with. Be a

better parent to yourself than you had, it is certainly okay to love yourself

completely and wholly, not partially which is all the role-modeling we have.

To borrow from Doug... " May we all heal "

Kay

>

> Just need to vent:

>

> My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here

helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very

pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the

snarky comments she has towards us.

>

> I guess I'm just triggered because:

> a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over

because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any

way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or

something.

>

> B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never

allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any

time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault.

But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and

everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting

sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh.

>

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Josh, your wife will need you again and again and you are so great for

supporting her. Early in our marriage my husband went NC with Fada, but when

Fada had to move in here, my husband became my hero. He put himself in between

me and Fada again and again. And he was the one who made the decision for

nursing home care and told Fada he was going. Just hold your wife and tell her

you love her. If she doesn't know it yet she will soon know you and your kids

are all she needs and she doesn't need them. When I had to have a breast biopsy

and I told my Dad his response was, " Well everyone has to die sometime " The only

time he cared about me was when he moved in and figured out that he would be

lost if I got ill first and my husband had to pick between Fada and me. When I

really wanted to flip him out, I used to tell him if I died first his grandsons

(26, 29, and 31) would take care of him and good luck cause they couldn't take

care of themselves.

Stay strong, keep educating yourself to the perils of BPD manipulation and learn

how to ward them off. Fada is 88 and he got worse every day he aged, so grateful

he is now in nursing home.

Good luck!

Kay

> > >

> > > Just need to vent:

> > >

> > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here

> > helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very

> > pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off

> > the snarky comments she has towards us.

> > >

> > > I guess I'm just triggered because:

> > > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over

> > because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out

> > in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be

> > slapped or something.

> > >

> > > B) I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was

> > never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes

> > through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed

> > and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life

> > needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never

> > their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when

> > they did. Sigh.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> In Victus Maneo

>

>

>

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The hairbrush thing happened to me as well. It got to a point, when I was older,

when I would hear her running up the stairs and raging, I would quickly hide the

hairbrushes in my room. After awhile, I would at least get a second of

satisfaction watching her trying to find it. Of course, she could always

improvise, but it taught me to think very quick.

What was really bad was when she would ambush me when I was sleeping. She would

be furious about something after I had gone to sleep and I would wake up to her

pulling all the sheets off me and screaming. No wonder I am still fighting

anxiety.

Natalia

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Amy,

> > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want

> > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that

> > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in

> > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> > > Sue

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> In Victus Maneo

>

>

>

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Wow. That makes my blood boil with outrage: waiting until your little child is

asleep in bed before jolting the child awake with terrifying, screaming rage and

punishment. Good Lord, I can hardly think of something more cruel and sadistic

than that. Its both emotional torture and physical torture. Even prisoners of

war are not supposed to be subjected to sleep deprivation, its considered too

cruel. Holy freaking cow.

Just another sad example that many of the bpd mothers (and fathers) spoken of

here were just way, way too mentally ill to have been care-givers for children.

It just makes my heart ache for the terrified, bewildered, devastated little

children we used to be.

I personally find it virtually impossible to even consider feeling sorry for

someone who is chronically and persistently cruel to a child in such a manner.

Me, I put that in the same category of sadistic cruelty as child molestation.

Its that bad. I don't feel sorry for child rapists or for those who emotionally

torture their children, either.

Sorry, but that's just me. Can't do it. Instead, I wish for child-torturers

and child-rapists to spend a great deal of alone-time in prison considering just

how heinous and destructive their acts are.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Amy,

> > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want

> > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that

> > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in

> > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF.

> > > > Sue

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > In Victus Maneo

> >

> >

> >

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