Guest guest Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just need to vent: My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the snarky comments she has towards us. I guess I'm just triggered because: a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or something. I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I know what you mean. When I was little, I learned to not ever mention if I felt sick or had injured myself, because I'd get screamed at and blamed or I'd see contempt on my nada's face, instead of being comforted. My illnesses or injuries were always my own fault, apparently, and I was deliberately piling more inconvenience on her. Nada, to give her credit, became somewhat better at demonstrating empathetic behaviors once I became an adult, but she was truly NOT cut out to be the mother of small children. I have no idea if she was genuinely feeling empathy or if she had simply learned over time how to mimic empathetic behaviors; I'll never know. I noticed that in the new DSM-V diagnostic criteria for bpd, they have included " lack of empathy. " So, the DSM-V is stating that bpds are like npds in that way. I buy it. But showing indifference, or contempt, or shrieking rage, blaming and shaming instead of offering comfort to a small child who is already hurting and scared is both traumatizing and cruel, in my opinion. -Annie > > Just need to vent: > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the snarky comments she has towards us. > > I guess I'm just triggered because: > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or something. > > I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Recently my wife and I went on a famil;y vacation for the first time in years. It was her baby sister's graduation from college and we all went to support her. Just as we were leaving my wife became ill. She called to tell her mom as a notice that she wasn't feeling good, (our daughters had been sick with strep a week before). Her Mom proceeded to tell her that " You had better get over it quick. Geez, you have to get sick just before a trip. " Then hung up. Turned out my wife had bronchitis. My wife had a miscarriage while on the trip. She told her dad and he was semi-sympathetic. 3 days later she asked her mom if she knew and her reply was " Yes. And if you keep bleeding like that you should see a doctor as soon as you get back. " The she turned and walked away. Zero empathy. JW On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:25 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > I know what you mean. When I was little, I learned to not ever mention if > I felt sick or had injured myself, because I'd get screamed at and blamed > or I'd see contempt on my nada's face, instead of being comforted. My > illnesses or injuries were always my own fault, apparently, and I was > deliberately piling more inconvenience on her. > > Nada, to give her credit, became somewhat better at demonstrating > empathetic behaviors once I became an adult, but she was truly NOT cut out > to be the mother of small children. > I have no idea if she was genuinely feeling empathy or if she had simply > learned over time how to mimic empathetic behaviors; I'll never know. I > noticed that in the new DSM-V diagnostic criteria for bpd, they have > included " lack of empathy. " So, the DSM-V is stating that bpds are like > npds in that way. I buy it. > > But showing indifference, or contempt, or shrieking rage, blaming and > shaming instead of offering comfort to a small child who is already hurting > and scared is both traumatizing and cruel, in my opinion. > > -Annie > > > > > > > Just need to vent: > > > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here > helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very > pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off > the snarky comments she has towards us. > > > > I guess I'm just triggered because: > > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over > because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out > in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be > slapped or something. > > > > I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was > never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes > through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed > and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life > needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never > their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when > they did. Sigh. > > > > > -- In Victus Maneo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'm so sorry, your poor wife. Taking a trip to please her parents, then having a miscarriage during the trip and then getting cool-to-tepid sympathy from them, and no comfort, no hugs when she was grieving. I'm glad you were there for her. That's one thing I think the new DSM criteria is right about: zero empathy. My own speculation is that my nada simply learned how to mimic behaviors that sounded empathetic, but she just didn't really " get " empathy. She was able to show what appeared to be empathy when others were watching, when it made her look good, sort of as a public gesture, but in private it kind of evaporated. I read an article recently, speculating that possibly borderline pd could be the female phenotypic expression of psychopathy. I hope more research is done on this theory. I think if it were shown to be true, it would be clearer that children are in real danger of emotional abuse, neglect, physical abuse, and other abuse by a bpd parent, and in divorce cases a diagnosis of bpd should be a serious factor in determining shared or sole custody, supervised visitation, etc. -Annie > > > > > > Just need to vent: > > > > > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here > > helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very > > pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off > > the snarky comments she has towards us. > > > > > > I guess I'm just triggered because: > > > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over > > because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out > > in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be > > slapped or something. > > > > > > I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was > > never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes > > through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed > > and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life > > needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never > > their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when > > they did. Sigh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > In Victus Maneo > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 when I broke my back while ice skating, my mom did not bring me to the hospital. yet, throughout my teens, she would bring me to the hospital for wheezing. she has aches and pains constantly thru her life that is always a very big deal. apparently, a broken back didn't rate high enough on her insensitivity scale to warrant helping me out with it. i doubt i will ever fully understand all of this sickness...and unfortunately i also doubt that i will ever fully recover from her abuse. amy barrycove@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 this reminds me of my mother - i cant stop reading and re-reading your posts. I had TERRIBLE allergic reaction to poison ivy for my first day of 8th grade. She made me go to school swollen, covered from head to toe in rash, itchy, scratching, huge welts up and down my body etc.. She refused to take me to a doctor -doc was too expensive and i " didnt need it "  even though the doctor was less than a mile from our house and from my school. A friends mother (who was a nurse, funny enough) drove me home from school that day and took me directly to the doctor where I had to use the receptionists phone to call my mother. i remember my mother was ANNOYED when she heard i was at the doctor. My friends mom felt so badly for me - my mom could have cared less. When my mom arrived she became nervous when she saw the poison ivy had spread to my face, she worried that it would scar my face and mar my looks. NARCISSIST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I think a lot of the posts here are about bpd parents who were too severely disordered to have been raising a child. Note that I did not say " too severely disordered to be having children. " I think that people should be able to have children if they want to. A mildly to moderately affected bpd person can be a good parent IF there is another non-pd adult in the home who can supervise and monitor the bpd parent pretty much 24/7, IF the person with bpd is aware that he or she has a mental disorder and accepts personal responsibility for their own behaviors, and if the person with bpd IS ACTIVELY IN THERAPY AND TRYING TO GET BETTER. But that's a hell of a lot of " Ifs. " To me, the very criteria that define and diagnose borderline pd preclude a person from being in a care-giving position for young children. The fact that borderline pd dysfunctional thinking and behaviors are most often manifested in intimate relationships means that its the child of someone with bpd who is at the most risk for emotional damage. If a person is not capable of empathy, is unable to perceive others as real, separate, individual human beings with rights and feelings and instead perceives them as objects or possessions, is easily triggered into rage, only perceives other people as " all good " or " all bad " , is easily stressed and triggered into delusional or paranoid thinking (quasi-psychotic states), is highly impulsive, has a sense of entitlement to be massively self-absorbed, has a tendency to self-harm or make suicide threats... then that person is not qualified or suitable to be a care-giver for children!!! Its absurd; nobody would hire a nanny with those traits and behaviors! But innocent, helpless children are left in the care of such individuals " because she's the child's mothhh-e-e-r-r-r. " Not providing proper medical care for one's own child should be a huge waving red flag that something is badly wrong, and that the child needs to be rescued, in my opinion. At least we don't leave children with pedophile parents anymore, if and when it is discovered that a parent is a child predator; I guess it will just take more time before its just as obvious that children should not be left with moderately to severely dysfunctional bpd parents either. -Annie > > when I broke my back while ice skating, my mom did not bring me to the hospital. > yet, throughout my teens, she would bring me to the hospital for wheezing. > > > she has aches and pains constantly thru her life that is always a very big deal. > apparently, a broken back didn't rate high enough on her insensitivity scale to warrant helping me out with it. > > > i doubt i will ever fully understand all of this sickness...and unfortunately i also doubt that i will ever fully recover from her abuse. > > > amy > > > barrycove@... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Amy, I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Amy, Your story touched me as well. I broke my arm when I was a little kid and wasn't believed either. I was brought to the hospital 24 hours later and given a poor patch up job. My arm is permanently crooked now. Of course, Nada always said it looked like a small fall...it seemed like I was being a " wuss " as usual. Even though I was just a kid, I can vividly remember trying to make it through the night with a BROKEN ARM and no one would take me seriously. Nada told me to stop it and go back to bed. Nada was particularly offended because the hospital treated her like SHE did something wrong, as if she was a child abuser who had broken it herself. It amazes me that these BPs cannot put anything into perspective. I think about these things, and I get even more mad that Nada thinks that I should be her old age servant. Are you kidding me??? Natalia > > > > > > Amy, > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > Sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 It seems to me that this lack of empathy and almost intentionally destructive behavior is always there. My wife's parents put her i the drawer of a dresser to sleep as a baby in 10 degree weather on the sun porch. They laugh about it now as if it is funny. I still get furious when i think about it. Her mom broke a hairbrush over her head as a little girl because she wouldn't sit still to get pony tails put in. The list goes on... > ** > > > > > Amy, > > Your story touched me as well. > > I broke my arm when I was a little kid and wasn't believed either. I was > brought to the hospital 24 hours later and given a poor patch up job. My > arm is permanently crooked now. Of course, Nada always said it looked like > a small fall...it seemed like I was being a " wuss " as usual. > > Even though I was just a kid, I can vividly remember trying to make it > through the night with a BROKEN ARM and no one would take me seriously. > Nada told me to stop it and go back to bed. Nada was particularly offended > because the hospital treated her like SHE did something wrong, as if she > was a child abuser who had broken it herself. It amazes me that these BPs > cannot put anything into perspective. > > I think about these things, and I get even more mad that Nada thinks that > I should be her old age servant. Are you kidding me??? > > Natalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > > Sue > > > > > -- In Victus Maneo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I agree, some parents are intentionally and repetitively cruel; I think that level of abuse belongs in the " psychopathic " category, and in some cases falls into the level of criminal child abuse or criminal child neglect. But then, I think that children should have the same rights as adults to prosecute when they are physically assaulted, raped, starved, subjected to medical neglect or subjected to emotional torture by their own parents or caregivers, have the right to sue for a " divorce " from parents deemed to be unfit, and receive financial compensation/ financial support from the ex-parents, and careful assignment to a suitable care-giving environment such as a relative or a good boarding school. I'm sure it means a great deal to your wife that you feel angry on her behalf, for her having been subjected to criminal child neglect and abuse from her parents. You are a great guy, to feel so protective of her. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > > > Sue > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > In Victus Maneo > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thank Annie, She is a wonderful person determined to break the cycle. Her grandmother (her nada's mom) is supportive of her as well. It seems to me that the desire to " control " random events is a characteristic as well. I.E. the visit to the doctor, inflict harm, dominate conversation or outcome. My wife suffered form eating disorders when I met her and slowly brought herself out of them. She is a remarkable strong person. I think that everyone on these boards should be to acknowledge to themselves the innate strength it takes to (1) recognize the problem (2) want to break the cycle and (3) reach out for help. I applaud everyone here!!! I cannot stress that enough. I am honored to associate with people striving everyday to improve themselves and in most situations, their family's lives. JW On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:21 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > I agree, some parents are intentionally and repetitively cruel; I think > that level of abuse belongs in the " psychopathic " category, and in some > cases falls into the level of criminal child abuse or criminal child > neglect. > > But then, I think that children should have the same rights as adults to > prosecute when they are physically assaulted, raped, starved, subjected to > medical neglect or subjected to emotional torture by their own parents or > caregivers, have the right to sue for a " divorce " from parents deemed to be > unfit, and receive financial compensation/ financial support from the > ex-parents, and careful assignment to a suitable care-giving environment > such as a relative or a good boarding school. > > I'm sure it means a great deal to your wife that you feel angry on her > behalf, for her having been subjected to criminal child neglect and abuse > from her parents. You are a great guy, to feel so protective of her. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't > want > > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that > > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were > treated in > > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > > > > Sue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > In Victus Maneo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Been there! Done that! And I thought I was all alone! So nice to know I have comrades in pain who have survived a BPD childhood. We just have to love each other. When I was in my thirties we vacationed with my husband's family. His sister also in her 30's got the flu and was in the bathroom throwing up and my mother-in-law went to the bathroom and held her forehead just the way she did when my sister in law was little. I wanted to cry when I saw that because that was a tenderness I never knew. Sit down and write all the good things you know about yourself to be true. Since we have to parent ourselves we might as well be loving parents and love ourselves the way my mother in law loved her kids. Not only are we parenting ourselves we had poor role models to start with. Be a better parent to yourself than you had, it is certainly okay to love yourself completely and wholly, not partially which is all the role-modeling we have. To borrow from Doug... " May we all heal " Kay > > Just need to vent: > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off the snarky comments she has towards us. > > I guess I'm just triggered because: > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be slapped or something. > > I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when they did. Sigh. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Josh, your wife will need you again and again and you are so great for supporting her. Early in our marriage my husband went NC with Fada, but when Fada had to move in here, my husband became my hero. He put himself in between me and Fada again and again. And he was the one who made the decision for nursing home care and told Fada he was going. Just hold your wife and tell her you love her. If she doesn't know it yet she will soon know you and your kids are all she needs and she doesn't need them. When I had to have a breast biopsy and I told my Dad his response was, " Well everyone has to die sometime " The only time he cared about me was when he moved in and figured out that he would be lost if I got ill first and my husband had to pick between Fada and me. When I really wanted to flip him out, I used to tell him if I died first his grandsons (26, 29, and 31) would take care of him and good luck cause they couldn't take care of themselves. Stay strong, keep educating yourself to the perils of BPD manipulation and learn how to ward them off. Fada is 88 and he got worse every day he aged, so grateful he is now in nursing home. Good luck! Kay > > > > > > Just need to vent: > > > > > > My roommate is very physically ill all of a sudden. So, her mom is here > > helping her out giving her everything she needs etc. Roommate is not very > > pleasant to be around since she isn't feeling well, but mom just laughs off > > the snarky comments she has towards us. > > > > > > I guess I'm just triggered because: > > > a) this situation would NEVER happen for me. My parents would come over > > because they WANT to, whenever is convenient for them, not to help me out > > in any way. Also, if I talked to my mom the way my roommate is, I'd be > > slapped or something. > > > > > > I'm realizing more and more how I basically raised myself. I was > > never allowed to be sick, upset, hurt, or anything else a normal kid goes > > through. Any time I felt any of those ways, it was like the world collapsed > > and was MY fault. But if a parent felt physically ill or upset etc, life > > needed to stop and everyone needed to cater to that person. It was never > > their fault for getting sick, and I was the one meant to care for them when > > they did. Sigh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > In Victus Maneo > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 The hairbrush thing happened to me as well. It got to a point, when I was older, when I would hear her running up the stairs and raging, I would quickly hide the hairbrushes in my room. After awhile, I would at least get a second of satisfaction watching her trying to find it. Of course, she could always improvise, but it taught me to think very quick. What was really bad was when she would ambush me when I was sleeping. She would be furious about something after I had gone to sleep and I would wake up to her pulling all the sheets off me and screaming. No wonder I am still fighting anxiety. Natalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > > > Sue > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > In Victus Maneo > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Wow. That makes my blood boil with outrage: waiting until your little child is asleep in bed before jolting the child awake with terrifying, screaming rage and punishment. Good Lord, I can hardly think of something more cruel and sadistic than that. Its both emotional torture and physical torture. Even prisoners of war are not supposed to be subjected to sleep deprivation, its considered too cruel. Holy freaking cow. Just another sad example that many of the bpd mothers (and fathers) spoken of here were just way, way too mentally ill to have been care-givers for children. It just makes my heart ache for the terrified, bewildered, devastated little children we used to be. I personally find it virtually impossible to even consider feeling sorry for someone who is chronically and persistently cruel to a child in such a manner. Me, I put that in the same category of sadistic cruelty as child molestation. Its that bad. I don't feel sorry for child rapists or for those who emotionally torture their children, either. Sorry, but that's just me. Can't do it. Instead, I wish for child-torturers and child-rapists to spend a great deal of alone-time in prison considering just how heinous and destructive their acts are. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > > > I am very sorry for what that must have felt like to you. I didn't want > > > your story slipping by without saying what a absolute tragedy that that > > > happened. It's so mind boggling that it's surreal that you were treated in > > > such an inhuman fashion. It makes us constantly wonder WTF. > > > > Sue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > In Victus Maneo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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