Hi to all + anyone lost a sibling?

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone and a cyber *high 5* to all KOs.

I am new to writing here, but have been reading for at least a few years, on and

off. My bro may also be reading, so *waves*, hi.

I must echo all the usual sentiments about what a magnificent place this is and

how amazing it is to find people who KNOW and UNDERSTAND. Every day I sit here

and read and nod my head; so often I identify with what someone is writing so

strongly that I think we must surely have been twins.

My sibs and I have all struggled endlessly with anxiety, depression and low

self-esteem.

Our nada has not been diagnosed officially (unfortuately), but I have had verbal

confirmation from one T of her's that " she is a match for everything on the BPD

list, except the self harm/threats of suicide " . (Which makes me think " Oh well,

there's still time haha! " ) That T also stated that she thinks " there is a lot

of narcissism in there as well " . Seems like such a simple way to account for

decades of misery!

Anyway, to add to our already long list of nada-based difficulties, we lost an

adult sibling to cancer, nearly nine years ago. During the last nine years, my

remaining siblings and I have all had our own separate " last-straw " experiences,

following which we have all separately elected to go NC with nada. She made my

children scream in fear, she hit one sibling of mine in the face while they sat

side by side in a crowded aeroplace, she chased another out of her house making

him fear for his personal safety and yet she professes to have no idea why we

would be reluctant to see her. Perhaps she really doesn't have any idea,

perhaps her neural wiring is really that faulty.

Now, we don't feel that these experiences are particularly related to her being

a grieving mother, but she chooses to, and so does our dishrag, co-dependent,

enabler, " Huntsman " fada. They both insist that we should forgive any and every

behaviour of her's on the basis that we don't know what it means to be a

grieving mother. What they have proved time and time again, is that they are

totally and completely unable, or unwilling, to see that our difficulties with

nada extend WAY back before the last nine years - which, of course, nada

remembers nothing about. I do like to refer to our nada as the " Denial Queen of

the Universe " .

So, yeah, totally unwinnable situation, all we could do was withdraw. Nada

(still!) has the world eating out of her hand as the poor, pathetic, neglected,

grieving soul who has been abandoned by her heartless, selfish, ignorant and

uncaring children. She is assured of a lifetime of sympathy, validation and

narcissistic supply. Come to think of it, she's on a winner really, although

she's still waiting for that medal, the one they give out for World Championship

Mothering.

Do you detect a note of cynicism in my voice?

Anyone else out there, with a BPD/NPD nada, who has lost a sibling?

P.S. Thanks to all those who write about their own experiences. It is a

life-affirming thing, to read that you are not alone.

[Guest guest]

Hello Labtopbucaro!

I lost my sister last year because of cancer. She was the " golden " child and

nada and fada totaly destroyed her. in her 20 she had had a lot of phobias,

fears and she had been completely lost ( and had denied that anything is

seriously wrong with her and she had refused to seek help). After our fada

died she had been incapable to go to our home town anymore and hadn't

seen nada for 15 years ( untitl few days before her death). But she had

been in contact with her trough phone almost daily - nada was allways good

with manipulating her with quilt. Sister haven't had a lot of contact with

me nither ( nada and fada where good at manipulate us against each other)

but I could see she had had severe PTSD or borderline herself. She expected

others to take care for her and didn't want to face anything ( including her

illness and decided not to go to operation who would save her life but

instead had treated herself with alternative medicine. Her cancer had

spreaded and had become fatal So her fears literally killed her ( and nada

had sucked her life out of her meanwhile)

When she was dying nada didn't figure out that she is hardly breathing when

they spoke on telephone ( sister hadn't told her she had had cancer and

that she had been dying) Nada had been ( and still is) always too occupated

with herself to hear or feel anything.

Nada of coursewas and is in denial of everything. Our childhood was

" perfect " ( except that I was a terrible child) she doesn't know why sister

couldn't see her for so many years - she convinced herself that they had had

beautifully relationship and that is absolutely nothing wrong with her

behavior ( she is borderline by book)

She never likes me but after my sister died she wanted me to be her golden

child and take care of her (under her bizzare conditions) she wants to

manipulate me into my sister role but I totally refused. She always was good

in victim role and somehow it suits her when people are dying around her ( I

know it is bizarre but she just enjoyed being in her role of poor grieving

wife, doughtier, mother with all the attention she gets and all the

imaginary past she can easily reproduce without anybody to protest anymore)

I refuse to play that role with her too.

I'm the only one left in the family so she decided to go to extreme to

force me to take care of her by her rules. She had treated with suicide and

called once that she took some pills - I called an ambulance and she ended

in a hospital. Then she tried to manipulate doctors to force me to play by

her rules and I had huge problems with them ( they didn't know enough about

BPD) but at the end we solved that probem and they at least started treated

her with anti depressives and anti psychotic and she gets a little bit

better.

Now i'm LC with her ( call her once a week) , she excepted somehow (for

know) my boundaries ( she didn't have other chance) we have some kind

relationship and things calm down abit. She doesn't like me anyway so she is

ok with that that I don't come often ( not if I don't want to play by her

rules) But she likes the feeling that I'm somewhere around so she is not

alone and for her is enough (or even better) if she can tell all imaginary

stories about our beautifull relation to her neighburs and probably telling

them all sort of crap. I'm quite succesfull and she likes all the intetnion

she gets because of my carier - even better if I'm not around to spoil her

imaginary stories.

It was a sad journey for me and I needed a lot of learning and help from my

friends ( reading posts on this board helps enormously...) I have to

finally accept that I never had a mother, that she is not normal, not

capable of emphaty, that it is not ok if I'm normal with her because

things went downhill the moment I 'm kind or sympathetic, that it will never

be different, and that I'm not helping nether of us if I enable her illness

with my indulgence. I have to process all the grief and anger and except

somehow how horrible it is that they ( nada and fada) so bruttaly destroyed

my sister life that she had to die...... and it was quite hard and sometimes

it still is.

But now things calm down, she finally realised that she can not get from me

what she expects and we ( both) find some kind of peace.She is much better

because now she regularly takes her medicine and she found some other folks

around her who play her games.

She even don't mention my sister again because I refused to talk endlessly

about her and refuse to confirm her " truth " what happened to my sister and

how beautifully relation they had - and she never ever wants to hear the

truth. So she stopped talked with me about my sister.

Hope you find some useful information :-))

have a nice day!

Yenaine

2011/8/7 laptopbuckaroo

> **

>

>

> Hi everyone and a cyber *high 5* to all KOs.

>

> I am new to writing here, but have been reading for at least a few years,

> on and off. My bro may also be reading, so *waves*, hi.

>

> I must echo all the usual sentiments about what a magnificent place this is

> and how amazing it is to find people who KNOW and UNDERSTAND. Every day I

> sit here and read and nod my head; so often I identify with what someone is

> writing so strongly that I think we must surely have been twins.

>

> My sibs and I have all struggled endlessly with anxiety, depression and low

> self-esteem.

>

> Our nada has not been diagnosed officially (unfortuately), but I have had

> verbal confirmation from one T of her's that " she is a match for everything

> on the BPD list, except the self harm/threats of suicide " . (Which makes me

> think " Oh well, there's still time haha! " ) That T also stated that she

> thinks " there is a lot of narcissism in there as well " . Seems like such a

> simple way to account for decades of misery!

>

> Anyway, to add to our already long list of nada-based difficulties, we lost

> an adult sibling to cancer, nearly nine years ago. During the last nine

> years, my remaining siblings and I have all had our own separate

> " last-straw " experiences, following which we have all separately elected to

> go NC with nada. She made my children scream in fear, she hit one sibling of

> mine in the face while they sat side by side in a crowded aeroplace, she

> chased another out of her house making him fear for his personal safety and

> yet she professes to have no idea why we would be reluctant to see her.

> Perhaps she really doesn't have any idea, perhaps her neural wiring is

> really that faulty.

>

> Now, we don't feel that these experiences are particularly related to her

> being a grieving mother, but she chooses to, and so does our dishrag,

> co-dependent, enabler, " Huntsman " fada. They both insist that we should

> forgive any and every behaviour of her's on the basis that we don't know

> what it means to be a grieving mother. What they have proved time and time

> again, is that they are totally and completely unable, or unwilling, to see

> that our difficulties with nada extend WAY back before the last nine years -

> which, of course, nada remembers nothing about. I do like to refer to our

> nada as the " Denial Queen of the Universe " .

>

> So, yeah, totally unwinnable situation, all we could do was withdraw. Nada

> (still!) has the world eating out of her hand as the poor, pathetic,

> neglected, grieving soul who has been abandoned by her heartless, selfish,

> ignorant and uncaring children. She is assured of a lifetime of sympathy,

> validation and narcissistic supply. Come to think of it, she's on a winner

> really, although she's still waiting for that medal, the one they give out

> for World Championship Mothering.

>

> Do you detect a note of cynicism in my voice?

>

> Anyone else out there, with a BPD/NPD nada, who has lost a sibling?

>

> P.S. Thanks to all those who write about their own experiences. It is a

> life-affirming thing, to read that you are not alone.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Yenaine, thanks for your reply!

Sorry to be so slow to respond, I was confused with my new Yahoo and gmail

accounts and I was checking in the wrong place.

First of all, I am so sorry to hear about your sister. Her story seems to be a

truly tragic one. I am sorry that you had to sit by and watch while your sister

became a victim of her fears. I am sorry that she had to go so far as to die to

finally escape nada and fada. That is chilling.

My brother told our parents that he had cancer, but not that he had been graded

" Stage 4 " . Which means that the cancer had already spread to different places

in his body by the time they found it. Basically it was a death sentence for

him right from the start, but he chose not to tell nada that he was most likely

going to die. The doctor who did his inital assessments had said " I wish I had

a magic wand, but I don't. I hope you have your affairs in order. " Even in his

darkest hour, my poor brother chose to protect nada, to smooth things over for

her. I guess our lifetime of training was too strong for him to change, even

though she was the one who should have been comforting him, not the other way

around. And she still needs so much comforting.

Haha, you are so right about nada enjoying her role as the grieving mother.

People take her out to dinner, people lend her their holiday homes. People

support her by telling her how angry they are with us, her remaining children,

for abandoning her and she then forwards these emails to us.

She seems to go to great lengths to keep the grief alive. She practically goes

around with " Grieving Mother of XXXX " tattooed on her forehead. She belongs to

a charity for bereaved parents. It has become a whole new social circle for

her, she has even travelled to different cities, to meetings for parents who

have lost children, as a roving reporter, writing for the charity's magazine.

*Sigh* I guess I can't judge, I don't know what it's like to lose a 34 year old

son. But it does seem that she hasn't moved on or grown a single inch in the

last nine years. She blames us for making her feel that she has to suppress her

grief. It's all about her Great Personal Tragedy, as if no-one else has ever

suffered grief before.

And the imaginary past she can so easily reproduce now that my brother is not

there to protest! Yes, he has become the permanent, on-a-pedestal, golden

child. Apparently he was the only one who really understood her and the only

one who appreciated her sense of humour. The rest of us must just be faulty and

inadequate.

I am happy for you that things have settled down and you have achieved some sort

of calm. It's good that you can see the benefit of the medication. My mother

only takes one antidepressant, but this doesn't stop her crying, doesn't seem to

help with her anger or panic attacks. But why would she take any other

medication, other than something for her " natural " grief, because there's

nothing wrong with her.

Yes, I would refuse to talk endlessly about my brother too, although that seems

to be what nada wants. I could tell her stories that would (should) make her

hair curl about how her behaviour, while he was dying, added significantly to

his stress and suffering. I know because he used to ring me to complain about

her. But I don't tell her, because it wouldn't achieve anything, I doubt she

would even listen anyway. And if she did, she would just deny, deny, deny.

I wish you luck for the future, for coming to terms with your grief and anger

towards nada and fada. You do seem to have a very good grasp of the situation

and how to move forward. I agree, it does sound horrible. Even just dying of

cancer is horrible enough without the added burden of having to deal with

personality disordered parents.

{{{Hugs}}},

Tamara.

>

> Hello Labtopbucaro!

> I lost my sister last year because of cancer. She was the " golden " child and

> nada and fada totaly destroyed her. in her 20 she had had a lot of phobias,

> fears and she had been completely lost ( and had denied that anything is

> seriously wrong with her and she had refused to seek help). After our fada

> died she had been incapable to go to our home town anymore and hadn't

> seen nada for 15 years ( untitl few days before her death). But she had

> been in contact with her trough phone almost daily - nada was allways good

> with manipulating her with quilt. Sister haven't had a lot of contact with

> me nither ( nada and fada where good at manipulate us against each other)

> but I could see she had had severe PTSD or borderline herself. She expected

> others to take care for her and didn't want to face anything ( including her

> illness and decided not to go to operation who would save her life but

> instead had treated herself with alternative medicine. Her cancer had

> spreaded and had become fatal So her fears literally killed her ( and nada

> had sucked her life out of her meanwhile)

>

> When she was dying nada didn't figure out that she is hardly breathing when

> they spoke on telephone ( sister hadn't told her she had had cancer and

> that she had been dying) Nada had been ( and still is) always too occupated

> with herself to hear or feel anything.

>

> Nada of coursewas and is in denial of everything. Our childhood was

> " perfect " ( except that I was a terrible child) she doesn't know why sister

> couldn't see her for so many years - she convinced herself that they had had

> beautifully relationship and that is absolutely nothing wrong with her

> behavior ( she is borderline by book)

>

> She never likes me but after my sister died she wanted me to be her golden

> child and take care of her (under her bizzare conditions) she wants to

> manipulate me into my sister role but I totally refused. She always was good

> in victim role and somehow it suits her when people are dying around her ( I

> know it is bizarre but she just enjoyed being in her role of poor grieving

> wife, doughtier, mother with all the attention she gets and all the

> imaginary past she can easily reproduce without anybody to protest anymore)

> I refuse to play that role with her too.

>

> I'm the only one left in the family so she decided to go to extreme to

> force me to take care of her by her rules. She had treated with suicide and

> called once that she took some pills - I called an ambulance and she ended

> in a hospital. Then she tried to manipulate doctors to force me to play by

> her rules and I had huge problems with them ( they didn't know enough about

> BPD) but at the end we solved that probem and they at least started treated

> her with anti depressives and anti psychotic and she gets a little bit

> better.

>

> Now i'm LC with her ( call her once a week) , she excepted somehow (for

> know) my boundaries ( she didn't have other chance) we have some kind

> relationship and things calm down abit. She doesn't like me anyway so she is

> ok with that that I don't come often ( not if I don't want to play by her

> rules) But she likes the feeling that I'm somewhere around so she is not

> alone and for her is enough (or even better) if she can tell all imaginary

> stories about our beautifull relation to her neighburs and probably telling

> them all sort of crap. I'm quite succesfull and she likes all the intetnion

> she gets because of my carier - even better if I'm not around to spoil her

> imaginary stories.

>

> It was a sad journey for me and I needed a lot of learning and help from my

> friends ( reading posts on this board helps enormously...) I have to

> finally accept that I never had a mother, that she is not normal, not

> capable of emphaty, that it is not ok if I'm normal with her because

> things went downhill the moment I 'm kind or sympathetic, that it will never

> be different, and that I'm not helping nether of us if I enable her illness

> with my indulgence. I have to process all the grief and anger and except

> somehow how horrible it is that they ( nada and fada) so bruttaly destroyed

> my sister life that she had to die...... and it was quite hard and sometimes

> it still is.

>

> But now things calm down, she finally realised that she can not get from me

> what she expects and we ( both) find some kind of peace.She is much better

> because now she regularly takes her medicine and she found some other folks

> around her who play her games.

>

> She even don't mention my sister again because I refused to talk endlessly

> about her and refuse to confirm her " truth " what happened to my sister and

> how beautifully relation they had - and she never ever wants to hear the

> truth. So she stopped talked with me about my sister.

>

> Hope you find some useful information :-))

>

> have a nice day!

> Yenaine

>

>

>

> 2011/8/7 laptopbuckaroo

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Hi everyone and a cyber *high 5* to all KOs.

> >

> > I am new to writing here, but have been reading for at least a few years,

> > on and off. My bro may also be reading, so *waves*, hi.

> >

> > I must echo all the usual sentiments about what a magnificent place this is

> > and how amazing it is to find people who KNOW and UNDERSTAND. Every day I

> > sit here and read and nod my head; so often I identify with what someone is

> > writing so strongly that I think we must surely have been twins.

> >

> > My sibs and I have all struggled endlessly with anxiety, depression and low

> > self-esteem.

> >

> > Our nada has not been diagnosed officially (unfortuately), but I have had

> > verbal confirmation from one T of her's that " she is a match for everything

> > on the BPD list, except the self harm/threats of suicide " . (Which makes me

> > think " Oh well, there's still time haha! " ) That T also stated that she

> > thinks " there is a lot of narcissism in there as well " . Seems like such a

> > simple way to account for decades of misery!

> >

> > Anyway, to add to our already long list of nada-based difficulties, we lost

> > an adult sibling to cancer, nearly nine years ago. During the last nine

> > years, my remaining siblings and I have all had our own separate

> > " last-straw " experiences, following which we have all separately elected to

> > go NC with nada. She made my children scream in fear, she hit one sibling of

> > mine in the face while they sat side by side in a crowded aeroplace, she

> > chased another out of her house making him fear for his personal safety and

> > yet she professes to have no idea why we would be reluctant to see her.

> > Perhaps she really doesn't have any idea, perhaps her neural wiring is

> > really that faulty.

> >

> > Now, we don't feel that these experiences are particularly related to her

> > being a grieving mother, but she chooses to, and so does our dishrag,

> > co-dependent, enabler, " Huntsman " fada. They both insist that we should

> > forgive any and every behaviour of her's on the basis that we don't know

> > what it means to be a grieving mother. What they have proved time and time

> > again, is that they are totally and completely unable, or unwilling, to see

> > that our difficulties with nada extend WAY back before the last nine years -

> > which, of course, nada remembers nothing about. I do like to refer to our

> > nada as the " Denial Queen of the Universe " .

> >

> > So, yeah, totally unwinnable situation, all we could do was withdraw. Nada

> > (still!) has the world eating out of her hand as the poor, pathetic,

> > neglected, grieving soul who has been abandoned by her heartless, selfish,

> > ignorant and uncaring children. She is assured of a lifetime of sympathy,

> > validation and narcissistic supply. Come to think of it, she's on a winner

> > really, although she's still waiting for that medal, the one they give out

> > for World Championship Mothering.

> >

> > Do you detect a note of cynicism in my voice?

> >

> > Anyone else out there, with a BPD/NPD nada, who has lost a sibling?

> >

> > P.S. Thanks to all those who write about their own experiences. It is a

> > life-affirming thing, to read that you are not alone.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>