Re: Does BPD Really Exist?

August 7, 2011

That's what some of us wonder. It's almost like psychopathy-lite. Could be a

continuation along the psychopathy spectrum, if people think there is such a

spectrum.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:14 PM, sweetsoulmusic09 <

sweetsoulmusic09@...> wrote:

> **

>

> I saw this video today talking about psychiatric labels and how they are

> over-assigned these days. One doctor suggested that none of these mental

> disorders are even real, and that psychiatry isn't all that real in the

> first place. That, of course, is one extreme. I have been thinking about

> this lately as it relates to BPD. It's sort of like when it comes to

> sociopaths and anti-social personality disorder, no one really says " That

> person is mentally ill. " They declare, " That person is an evil human being

> and there is no excuse! " Now, when it comes to depression I really don't

> believe that exists, even in the least bit. It's caused by a number of

> things: 1) something in your life is making you unhappy, 2) sleep

> deprivation, 3) Nutrient deficiencies. Depression is either a sign to fix

> your life or fix your body.

>

> So what is BPD? Are they deep down just really evil-hearted people? Or do

> they have a true mental illness for which we should look upon with sympathy

> and understanding? Where is the line exactly? If someone is murdered, no one

> looks at the killer and says, " That poor man just couldn't help himself. "

> Real murders are not like on the show Dexter. I've even heard of a book that

> labels child molesters and excuses it, claiming its a part of who they are

> and its okay because they just can't help themselves. Of course, this is a

> bit more extreme, but back on the subject... Where is the line with BPD?

>

> On a personal note... I've watched my father do horrible things to both my

> mother and I our entire lives. For one, I learned recently that he's had one

> affair for sure, one that is currently going on (but we cannot prove), and

> ever since he said to my mother, " You had affairs on me while I was living

> in Australia for 6 months didn't you? " I had a sinking feeling. That's

> exactly what my ex did to me when he cheated on me, accused me. No telling

> how many times he's cheated on my mother, he comes up with this outrageous

> BS that is so far from ever being true, he's abused me, abused my mother,

> won't stop cheating, threatens divorce on my mother 3 times a year since I

> was born, and when he was a kid he told his little brother, " I'm going to

> leave the house now, and if you step outside that door, there is a big black

> guy outside who is going to shoot you and kill you. " That was not the first

> occasion, he used to mentally torture his little brother quite a bit. He

> came in my room recently and said, " If anyone ever killed you, no one would

> come looking for you. " Sadly, this is not the worst of what he has said to

> me in my lifetime. Needless to say, my life has been like one long horror

> movie, as all of you know from personal experience I'm sure... The part that

> makes me sick is that he's getting away with all of it. My mother won't

> leave him because, " he's mentally ill. " No one believes how insane he is

> because he's so good at acting charismatic. From where I'm sitting, my dad

> looks flat out evil. I honestly don't believe there is a good bone in his

> body. Any act of " kindness " always has a string attached and some sort of

> expectation, even if its because he feels like he needs to convince others

> (or himself) that he's a good person.

>

> I read a book called " Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Controlling

> Angry Men, and one of the things about abusive men is that its all well

> calculated. They would rather abuse their partner than get up off their lazy

> butt and do work. Am I supposed to lump the BPD and NPD person into the

> " abusive " bunch, or am I supposed to excuse it as mentally ill?

>

> What do you think? Do you think it really exists? Or is it just a

> sugar-coated way of describing an evil-hearted person?

>

August 7, 2011

For my part, I'd say the answer is " Yes " , bpd really does exist.

I think the following illustrates the difference between normal behavior and

personality-disordered behavior in an extreme way, but, it gets the point

across:

A non-pd person accidentally whacks her finger with a hammer while doing some

home repair work. The non-pd person howls with pain, perhaps calls herself a

few choice names, and is grateful if you, her loved one, are kind enough to

come over and offer your sympathy and comfort.

A personality-disordered person accidentally whacks her finger with a hammer

while doing some home repair work. The pd person howls with pain, then walks

over to where you, her loved one, are and whacks your finger with the hammer so

that you are now in just as much pain as she is. While you are howling in pain

and feeling shocked disbelief that someone who supposedly loves you would

deliberately attack you and hurt you like that, your pd loved one screams at

you that its your fault that she whacked her own finger to begin with

(apparently your mere presence in another part of the house distracted her),

she demands that you take care of her hurt finger (while ignoring your own) and

demands that you finish the repair work she started. When you protest this

mistreatment and ask why in God's name she's behaving this way, she denies

having whacked you with the hammer, (you are a liar), or she says you

misunderstood her intention (you are stupid) or, your finger is too sensitive

and you're over-reacting (you just want attention and sympathy, you drama

queen.) After having whacked you with her hammer and blamed you for it, and

extracted some inappropriate, misplaced guilt from you, your bpd loved one feels

much, much better now.

THAT is what having a bpd mom felt like to me, anyway.

If my mother was in shitty mood: feeling left out, feeling jealous, feeling

thwarted, feeling disrespected, feeling like a loser, feeling shamed, feeling

let down or disappointed, then I was doomed because she would somehow make her

shitty mood my fault, and she would punish me for it in some way.

This is what insanity looks like and feels like. I DO believe in insanity as

fervently as the Cowardly Lion when he was chanting, " I DO believe in spooks, I

DO believe in spooks, I do I do I do I do I DO...! "

To be honest, I don't think the " soft sciences " , meaning psychology, are doing a

good enough job, and they're not helping fast enough to suit me.

I'm leaning toward personality disorder being some kind of organic brain

malfunction, disease or damage, even though currently there is no magic pill

that targets personality disorder, I think its just a matter of time and

research in the " hard sciences " like neurochemistry, genetics research, gene

therapy, brain structure, brain function... before these sciences will give us a

way of defining, diagnosing and treating mental illnesses including personality

disorders in an entirely different and more precise, specific way that its done

now.

I think these fields of study will eventually give us an actual 3-D " blueprint "

of an individual person's brain and demonstrate in real time the level of

functioning in specific key areas. That way, hopefully, very individualized,

targeted treatment could be prescribed, and give more satisfactory results,

i.e., a better quality of life for the person with the mental illness, and a

better quality of life for the families of the mentally ill.

-Annie

>

> > **

> >

> > I saw this video today talking about psychiatric labels and how they are

> > over-assigned these days. One doctor suggested that none of these mental

> > disorders are even real, and that psychiatry isn't all that real in the

> > first place. That, of course, is one extreme. I have been thinking about

> > this lately as it relates to BPD. It's sort of like when it comes to

> > sociopaths and anti-social personality disorder, no one really says " That

> > person is mentally ill. " They declare, " That person is an evil human being

> > and there is no excuse! " Now, when it comes to depression I really don't

> > believe that exists, even in the least bit. It's caused by a number of

> > things: 1) something in your life is making you unhappy, 2) sleep

> > deprivation, 3) Nutrient deficiencies. Depression is either a sign to fix

> > your life or fix your body.

> >

> > So what is BPD? Are they deep down just really evil-hearted people? Or do

> > they have a true mental illness for which we should look upon with sympathy

> > and understanding? Where is the line exactly? If someone is murdered, no one

> > looks at the killer and says, " That poor man just couldn't help himself. "

> > Real murders are not like on the show Dexter. I've even heard of a book that

> > labels child molesters and excuses it, claiming its a part of who they are

> > and its okay because they just can't help themselves. Of course, this is a

> > bit more extreme, but back on the subject... Where is the line with BPD?

> >

> > On a personal note... I've watched my father do horrible things to both my

> > mother and I our entire lives. For one, I learned recently that he's had one

> > affair for sure, one that is currently going on (but we cannot prove), and

> > ever since he said to my mother, " You had affairs on me while I was living

> > in Australia for 6 months didn't you? " I had a sinking feeling. That's

> > exactly what my ex did to me when he cheated on me, accused me. No telling

> > how many times he's cheated on my mother, he comes up with this outrageous

> > BS that is so far from ever being true, he's abused me, abused my mother,

> > won't stop cheating, threatens divorce on my mother 3 times a year since I

> > was born, and when he was a kid he told his little brother, " I'm going to

> > leave the house now, and if you step outside that door, there is a big black

> > guy outside who is going to shoot you and kill you. " That was not the first

> > occasion, he used to mentally torture his little brother quite a bit. He

> > came in my room recently and said, " If anyone ever killed you, no one would

> > come looking for you. " Sadly, this is not the worst of what he has said to

> > me in my lifetime. Needless to say, my life has been like one long horror

> > movie, as all of you know from personal experience I'm sure... The part that

> > makes me sick is that he's getting away with all of it. My mother won't

> > leave him because, " he's mentally ill. " No one believes how insane he is

> > because he's so good at acting charismatic. From where I'm sitting, my dad

> > looks flat out evil. I honestly don't believe there is a good bone in his

> > body. Any act of " kindness " always has a string attached and some sort of

> > expectation, even if its because he feels like he needs to convince others

> > (or himself) that he's a good person.

> >

> > I read a book called " Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Controlling

> > Angry Men, and one of the things about abusive men is that its all well

> > calculated. They would rather abuse their partner than get up off their lazy

> > butt and do work. Am I supposed to lump the BPD and NPD person into the

> > " abusive " bunch, or am I supposed to excuse it as mentally ill?

> >

> > What do you think? Do you think it really exists? Or is it just a

> > sugar-coated way of describing an evil-hearted person?

> >

>

August 7, 2011

I'm sorry, I really couldn't get much past reading where you state that you

don't believe depression exists. It sort of makes me think you've never had any

experience with it, if you say that. There are different kinds of depression.

There is depression that is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain and

there is situational depression. What you describe that you think depression is

sounds like situational depression. But there are people who suffer from true

chemical imbalances, that aren't just caused by sleep, depression. If you had

any knowledge of depression, you would know that people who suffer from it tend

to sleep a lot, so that whole sleep deprivation thing doesn't really play. There

are lots of things that can cause depression. And even if you're agreeing that

it's caused by some " nutrient " deficiency, then essentially it is real. I'm not

sure what else you think causes depression. It sounds like you just want some

other name for it other than the symptom that allows us to recognize it.

Just like there are lots of things that can contribute to BPD. Also, personality

disorders border on those psychopathic disorders that serial killers have. Do I

think my nada is evil even though she has done terrible things to me? No. I

think it's a product of how her warped mind works. I forgive her for it but I

still hold her responsible for it. Do I think she's responsible for her acts?

Yes. Do I think she's inherently a good person, as others have said their nadas

are " at heart " . No. My nada is not a good person. You can't do these terrible

things but essentially be a good person.

I don't think diagnosing someone with BPD is sugar-coating it. By diagnosing a

mental illness (oh say, like depression) psychologists and psychiatrists can

then figure out how to treat it. Some mental illnesses are not treatable just

like some physical illnesses are not treatable, it doesn't make them any less

real. How can you treat appendicitis if you don't diagnose it?

On the other hand, it sounds like you are very angry at your father and mother,

and that is completely justifiable and legit. They have done horrible things to

you and others, clearly, and it's okay to be angry. It's okay to feel like they

are evil. Those are your feelings and you are entitled to them. It's also okay

to say that they have BPD and you feel they are evil. Your feelings are not

wrong.

>

> I saw this video today talking about psychiatric labels and how they are

over-assigned these days. One doctor suggested that none of these mental

disorders are even real, and that psychiatry isn't all that real in the first

place. That, of course, is one extreme. I have been thinking about this lately

as it relates to BPD. It's sort of like when it comes to sociopaths and

anti-social personality disorder, no one really says " That person is mentally

ill. " They declare, " That person is an evil human being and there is no

excuse! " Now, when it comes to depression I really don't believe that exists,

even in the least bit. It's caused by a number of things: 1) something in your

life is making you unhappy, 2) sleep deprivation, 3) Nutrient deficiencies.

Depression is either a sign to fix your life or fix your body.

>

> So what is BPD? Are they deep down just really evil-hearted people? Or do

they have a true mental illness for which we should look upon with sympathy and

understanding? Where is the line exactly? If someone is murdered, no one looks

at the killer and says, " That poor man just couldn't help himself. " Real

murders are not like on the show Dexter. I've even heard of a book that labels

child molesters and excuses it, claiming its a part of who they are and its okay

because they just can't help themselves. Of course, this is a bit more extreme,

but back on the subject... Where is the line with BPD?

>

> On a personal note... I've watched my father do horrible things to both my

mother and I our entire lives. For one, I learned recently that he's had one

affair for sure, one that is currently going on (but we cannot prove), and ever

since he said to my mother, " You had affairs on me while I was living in

Australia for 6 months didn't you? " I had a sinking feeling. That's exactly

what my ex did to me when he cheated on me, accused me. No telling how many

times he's cheated on my mother, he comes up with this outrageous BS that is so

far from ever being true, he's abused me, abused my mother, won't stop cheating,

threatens divorce on my mother 3 times a year since I was born, and when he was

a kid he told his little brother, " I'm going to leave the house now, and if you

step outside that door, there is a big black guy outside who is going to shoot

you and kill you. " That was not the first occasion, he used to mentally torture

his little brother quite a bit. He came in my room recently and said, " If

anyone ever killed you, no one would come looking for you. " Sadly, this is not

the worst of what he has said to me in my lifetime. Needless to say, my life

has been like one long horror movie, as all of you know from personal experience

I'm sure... The part that makes me sick is that he's getting away with all of

it. My mother won't leave him because, " he's mentally ill. " No one believes

how insane he is because he's so good at acting charismatic. From where I'm

sitting, my dad looks flat out evil. I honestly don't believe there is a good

bone in his body. Any act of " kindness " always has a string attached and some

sort of expectation, even if its because he feels like he needs to convince

others (or himself) that he's a good person.

>

> I read a book called " Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Controlling

Angry Men, and one of the things about abusive men is that its all well

calculated. They would rather abuse their partner than get up off their lazy

butt and do work. Am I supposed to lump the BPD and NPD person into the

" abusive " bunch, or am I supposed to excuse it as mentally ill?

>

> What do you think? Do you think it really exists? Or is it just a

sugar-coated way of describing an evil-hearted person?

>

August 8, 2011

One of the reasons I say I don't think it exists... perhaps in a very small rare

minority it truly is a chemical imbalance, which is usually related to a mental

illness. As an example of the nutrient deficiency... during the winter the

Seasonal Depression pops up (and so do colds & flu). The reason people are

getting seasonal depression is because the lack of sunlight creates a strong

vitamin D deficiency (which is how our body creates it). During the summer most

people are happy and free of illnesses because there is more sunlight. Look at

Seattle, the darkest city in the nation, they have the highest rate of suicide

in the entire country. Most of the time, when people feel incredibly sad and

have no idea why, there is some sort of deficiency going on in the body (when

mental illness is not present).

Some vitamins like magnesium, when severely deficient can cause

hallucinations... low zinc levels can cause paranoia... Depression is caused by

deficiencies in Iron, Manganese, Potassium, Magnesium, Vitamin C, Vitamin B1

(low levels can cause thoughts of suicide), Vitamin B3 (low levels can cause

psychosis & dementia), Vitamin B5 (chronic stress), Vitamin B6, and Vitamin B12

(dementia, paranoia, mania, confusion, mood swings, hallucinations). The

american diet is so horrible that our bodies are all kind of messed up. For

example, white flour WAY back in the day was causing people to develop such

severe health problems that the government made them add vitamins to it. Over

years and years of deficient diets we can develop mental problems that we feel

we cannot control.

I'm allergic to everything, so I have to treat with vitamins whenever I get

ailments. For asthma attacks I use magnesium citrate, allergies are high doses

of vitamin C (4,000-8,000 a day), etc. If I get headaches I just have to suffer

haha! People are always shocked at how incredibly well it works.

Mental illness runs in my family so I do believe in drugs for the intense cases,

however I do think they are overprescribed. Even with the meds, they are still

very strange people but drastically less destructive on the pills. I wish I

could medicate my father!! lol

In my opinion, there is a major difference between brain wiring (such as

mentally handicapped, autism, giftedness, dyslexia, etc) and these brain

chemicals that have yet to be proven. Perhaps, personality disorders are really

just a brain wiring, which is why they seem to be so ingrained in the

personality. I have a cousin who is a schizophrenic and even on his meds, he's

still a major creeper.

Thanks for sharing your story! I appreciate it! I'm very curious to see what

everyone's take on the question is.