Re: Does BPD Really Exist?

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you found a way to self-treat your depression. As I and others have

said over and over now, there are a number of things that can cause depression,

and drugs don't always work (because we still don't understand exactly how the

brain works) and different treatments will work for different people.

You are very intent on labeling people either evil or bpd, as if one or the

other absolves them of responsibility. You ask if we " lump " one person with a PD

along with another person with a PD. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. You

want it to be clear cut, but it's not, just like the causes and treatments for

depression. PDs overlap and have varying levels of functioning. Some BPDs are

low functioning and appear crazy to everyone (google Hannah from Hoarders). Some

people with BPD are very high functioning and are only known to their close

family as performing the terrible acts they have performed.

As echo_babe said earlier, it seems like it would be more beneficial to focus on

your recovery from what your father has done, versus labeling him evil or BPD.

By the way, just because a disease or disorder isn't treatable by one form of

medication doesn't mean it's something else. Just because prozac didn't help

with my depression, it didn't mean that I wasn't suffering from depression, it

just meant that the cause wasn't treatable by prozac. Eventually I was

prescribed another drug that helped with my depression, which, by the way, was

cyclical (not to be confused with seasonal or situational) and was caused by

severe hormone fluxuations. So I'm glad for you that your depression didn't

really exist, but mine did.

In my opinion, the tone of your first post (on a forum where MANY people suffer

from depression) was somewhat like: I don't believe depression exists, you all

just need to sleep more and get more exercise and eat right. That's how it came

off to me and a few others.

So congratulations on getting over your not-depression.

>

> I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as well

since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness. In

regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience

with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty horrific

events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal in things in

completely different ways, so my response could be different than some, I

suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring

dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to it and sort

of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't want to be

alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've

gone through in the past.

>

> My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered at

a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

>

> At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself where

I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing brought

me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step,

I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite meal,

reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always found

small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong optimism

that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore all

of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents got

into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but

I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas music,

decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas stories, and

kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always had a good

christmas by myself.

>

> I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was nothing

I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming myself to a

miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes

to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is capable of

doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would have ever

imagined.

>

> I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe that

depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount of

work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

>

> I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would not

be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

>

>

>

> I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does He

Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

((((Annie))))

I think it is really interesting. The BPD/psychosis connection. My mother hasn't

been diagnosed with a personality disorder, just psychosis, but like you, the

psychosis is like a dramatic exaggeration of her existing personality traits. I

was lucky in that my nada never inclined towards physical violence. She seems to

be more `waify' than `witchy'. But in the last two years running up to the

psychosis diagnosis she has become more lonely, more needy, much more delusional

and paranoid etc.

It's a nice idea that eventually, one day, people with BPD would not be allowed

to raise children alone. This should absolutely be the case. But in the UK at

least, the authorities can't even seem to remove children who are being

seriously physically abused from their parents, so I can't see the children of

BPD-affected persons being looked out for anytime soon.

I mentioned to my boyfriend a while ago that I thought BPD-affected people

should not be able to care for children. His initial reaction was that that

seemed a little drastic (why are people so determined to maintain the

mother-child relationship at all costs??!). I had a flood of emotions reminding

me of how helpless I used to feel. I ranted at him about how I used to pray that

I would be taken into care and routinely consider suicide as my best escape

option. I think he got it then. 13 year-olds should be so afraid of their home

environment that killing themselves seems like a good option!!

Sara

> > > >

> > > > I saw this video today talking about psychiatric labels and how they are

over-assigned these days. One doctor suggested that none of these mental

disorders are even real, and that psychiatry isn't all that real in the first

place. That, of course, is one extreme. I have been thinking about this lately

as it relates to BPD. It's sort of like when it comes to sociopaths and

anti-social personality disorder, no one really says " That person is mentally

ill. " They declare, " That person is an evil human being and there is no

excuse! " Now, when it comes to depression I really don't believe that exists,

even in the least bit. It's caused by a number of things: 1) something in your

life is making you unhappy, 2) sleep deprivation, 3) Nutrient deficiencies.

Depression is either a sign to fix your life or fix your body.

> > > >

> > > > So what is BPD? Are they deep down just really evil-hearted people? Or

do they have a true mental illness for which we should look upon with sympathy

and understanding? Where is the line exactly? If someone is murdered, no one

looks at the killer and says, " That poor man just couldn't help himself. " Real

murders are not like on the show Dexter. I've even heard of a book that labels

child molesters and excuses it, claiming its a part of who they are and its okay

because they just can't help themselves. Of course, this is a bit more extreme,

but back on the subject... Where is the line with BPD?

> > > >

> > > > On a personal note... I've watched my father do horrible things to both

my mother and I our entire lives. For one, I learned recently that he's had one

affair for sure, one that is currently going on (but we cannot prove), and ever

since he said to my mother, " You had affairs on me while I was living in

Australia for 6 months didn't you? " I had a sinking feeling. That's exactly

what my ex did to me when he cheated on me, accused me. No telling how many

times he's cheated on my mother, he comes up with this outrageous BS that is so

far from ever being true, he's abused me, abused my mother, won't stop cheating,

threatens divorce on my mother 3 times a year since I was born, and when he was

a kid he told his little brother, " I'm going to leave the house now, and if you

step outside that door, there is a big black guy outside who is going to shoot

you and kill you. " That was not the first occasion, he used to mentally torture

his little

> brother quite a bit. He came in my room recently and said, " If anyone ever

killed you, no one would come looking for you. " Sadly, this is not the worst of

what he has said to me in my lifetime. Needless to say, my life has been like

one long horror movie, as all of you know from personal experience I'm sure...

The part that makes me sick is that he's getting away with all of it. My mother

won't leave him because, " he's mentally ill. " No one believes how insane he is

because he's so good at acting charismatic. From where I'm sitting, my dad

looks flat out evil. I honestly don't believe there is a good bone in his body.

Any act of " kindness " always has a string attached and some sort of expectation,

even if its because he feels like he needs to convince others (or himself) that

he's a good person.

> > > >

> > > > I read a book called " Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of

Controlling Angry Men, and one of the things about abusive men is that its all

well calculated. They would rather abuse their partner than get up off their

lazy butt and do work. Am I supposed to lump the BPD and NPD person into the

" abusive " bunch, or am I supposed to excuse it as mentally ill?

> > > >

> > > > What do you think? Do you think it really exists? Or is it just a

sugar-coated way of describing an evil-hearted person?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say I loved this expression:

" Like to her the sky is not blue it's orange and she's really pissed off at you

for saying it was blue. "

It really resonated with me. Brilliant!

> >

> > I saw this video today talking about psychiatric labels and how they are

over-assigned these days. One doctor suggested that none of these mental

disorders are even real, and that psychiatry isn't all that real in the first

place. That, of course, is one extreme. I have been thinking about this lately

as it relates to BPD. It's sort of like when it comes to sociopaths and

anti-social personality disorder, no one really says " That person is mentally

ill. " They declare, " That person is an evil human being and there is no

excuse! " Now, when it comes to depression I really don't believe that exists,

even in the least bit. It's caused by a number of things: 1) something in your

life is making you unhappy, 2) sleep deprivation, 3) Nutrient deficiencies.

Depression is either a sign to fix your life or fix your body.

> >

> > So what is BPD? Are they deep down just really evil-hearted people? Or do

they have a true mental illness for which we should look upon with sympathy and

understanding? Where is the line exactly? If someone is murdered, no one looks

at the killer and says, " That poor man just couldn't help himself. " Real

murders are not like on the show Dexter. I've even heard of a book that labels

child molesters and excuses it, claiming its a part of who they are and its okay

because they just can't help themselves. Of course, this is a bit more extreme,

but back on the subject... Where is the line with BPD?

> >

> > On a personal note... I've watched my father do horrible things to both my

mother and I our entire lives. For one, I learned recently that he's had one

affair for sure, one that is currently going on (but we cannot prove), and ever

since he said to my mother, " You had affairs on me while I was living in

Australia for 6 months didn't you? " I had a sinking feeling. That's exactly

what my ex did to me when he cheated on me, accused me. No telling how many

times he's cheated on my mother, he comes up with this outrageous BS that is so

far from ever being true, he's abused me, abused my mother, won't stop cheating,

threatens divorce on my mother 3 times a year since I was born, and when he was

a kid he told his little brother, " I'm going to leave the house now, and if you

step outside that door, there is a big black guy outside who is going to shoot

you and kill you. " That was not the first occasion, he used to mentally torture

his little brother quite a bit. He came in my room recently and said, " If

anyone ever killed you, no one would come looking for you. " Sadly, this is not

the worst of what he has said to me in my lifetime. Needless to say, my life

has been like one long horror movie, as all of you know from personal experience

I'm sure... The part that makes me sick is that he's getting away with all of

it. My mother won't leave him because, " he's mentally ill. " No one believes

how insane he is because he's so good at acting charismatic. From where I'm

sitting, my dad looks flat out evil. I honestly don't believe there is a good

bone in his body. Any act of " kindness " always has a string attached and some

sort of expectation, even if its because he feels like he needs to convince

others (or himself) that he's a good person.

> >

> > I read a book called " Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Controlling

Angry Men, and one of the things about abusive men is that its all well

calculated. They would rather abuse their partner than get up off their lazy

butt and do work. Am I supposed to lump the BPD and NPD person into the

" abusive " bunch, or am I supposed to excuse it as mentally ill?

> >

> > What do you think? Do you think it really exists? Or is it just a

sugar-coated way of describing an evil-hearted person?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Again, I really didn't mean to insult anyone, and as I said in my previous post

I think it exists, its just not what people think. Perhaps I don't explain

myself well enough. What you just said was a perfect example of what I was

talking about. Yours was caused by hormone fluctuations... that's something in

your body going awry. Were they able to treat it with hormone pills and what

not to get them more regulated?

One of the many things that contributed to my depression in the past was my food

allergies. I'm hypoglycemic, gluten-intolerant and lactose intolerant. Once I

started eating a diet of no sugar, no gluten and no dairy... it practically

cured the aspect of the depression that I wasn't able to control. That was

until I learned I was sensory defensive, so when I was able to understand it, I

realized I wasn't crazy after all.

What I'm saying is the definition of depression you see by drug company ads (the

definition that the majority of the population describes depression as) is the

one that doesn't exist...They just want people to believe that so they will buy

the meds. We can argue this until we're blue in the face, but I still believe

depression is a symptom. I've studied A LOT about the body, chemicals in the

environment, nutrition, self-help books, psychology, etc. Depression always

accompanies something else, like your hormone fluctuations. See what I mean?

For instance, if you have hypothyroidism you can be depressed... same with

hypoglycemia... and a number of other causes. It's either biological or

situational. But I don't think people are born depressed and will always suffer

with depression, like BPD for instance.

> >

> > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as well

since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness. In

regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience

with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty horrific

events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal in things in

completely different ways, so my response could be different than some, I

suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring

dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to it and sort

of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't want to be

alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've

gone through in the past.

> >

> > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered

at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> >

> > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> >

> > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> >

> > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe

that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount

of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> >

> > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would

not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

> >

> >

> >

> > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does He

Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> >

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You seem to be saying that because your depression was

treatable, it didn't exist and wasn't a mental illness. Illness,

whether mental or physical isn't any less real because it can be

treated and in some cases cured. Some mental illness is much,

much more treatable than other mental illness. Would you say

that physical diseases like the measles or the flu doesn't exist

because people get them and then get well again? I don't think

so.

Many people who are depressed can't simply think themselves

healthy. I'm glad that you could, but your experiences are your

own personal experiences and other people may have very

different experiences. I know people who very much want to be

happy and who have no situational reason to be depressed. They

have clinical depression. A few of them have become suicidal

without medication. That's real. The last thing they need is to

be told that their depression isn't real and that they could

think themselves out of it. Some people do have clinical

depression that is treatable by correcting a chemical imbalance.

Some people have clinical depression that is treatable using

various other methods. Some people have situational depression,

which may or may not be helped by medication while they deal

with the situational causes. All those varieties of depression

are real. People aren't just imagining that they have a problem.

The question of what makes an abuser with BPD different from a

" normal " abuser who does it with conscious intent is complex.

I'm not sure it is answerable because I'm not sure the premise

behind the question is reasonable. I think that trying to make

that division is too black and white. For one thing, people with

BPD may or may not have conscious intent to hurt people. Some of

them are very malicious and intentionally hurtful. Others, like

my nada, do most of their damage without intending actual harm.

Abuse is abuse and shouldn't be tolerated. In that sense,

they're no different. Beyond that, I question the idea of there

being " normal " abusers. People abuse others for all sorts of

reasons and there are numerous types of abuse. I think that

anyone who enjoys hurting others has something wrong him (or

her). The possibilities for what is wrong with them include BPD

as well as various other mental illnesses and problems. Not all

abuse is about enjoyment in hurting others though. It can also

be about being out-of-control or even about ignorance of proper

behavior. People who are raised in abusive households grow up

not knowing any other way to do things. When they have children

themselves, they can end up repeating the same abuse because

they think that's how parents behave. I had a neighbor who I

reported to the child protection people. As far as I could tell,

she really loved her children and didn't want to hurt them at

all. She didn't know how to be a parent though. She didn't have

a clue about age-appropriate discipline methods. She dealt with

her children by yelling and cursing at them. She also neglected

them a lot. It was obvious to me she was just raising them the

way she was raised. If she'd been raised with beatings instead

of verbal abuse, she's most likely have beat the children

instead of yelling at them. The reasons that people abuse are

real. They may be very bad reasons, but they're still reasons to

the people involved. Some abusers can be taught to behave better

with education and/or therapy. Some can be given treatment for

their mental illnesses so that their behavior improves. Others

are not going to respond to any of those things. One big

difference between abusers with BPD and other abusers is that

people with BPD almost never admit to having a problem, so they

almost never get any kind of treatment at all. If they don't

want to be helped and don't want to change, there's pretty much

no chance that their behavior is ever going to improve.

I haven't come across the book you've mentioned about

controlling men, but I think that any attempt to group all

controlling men together as a single homogenous group is going

to be a failure. Generalizing about it can provide a lot of

insights into behavior in general, but it can really fall apart

when you attempt to apply it to specific people who aren't a

good fit for the generalization. People behave in similar ways

for assorted reasons. The causes for their behavior and the

methods that may change differ. Whatever the cause, some

behaviors are unacceptable. Where there is a difference is with

what treatment or actions by others are going to be best for

dealing with the unaccepable behaviors.

My impression from your posts is that you want to put things

into black and white, either/or categories. Things don't work

that way though. The world is full of grays. People can both

have BPD and be " evil " . Or they can have BPD and do horrible

things because their decision-making process if very faulty but

without intending to do harm. People can have BPD and other

mental illnesses too. None of that absolves them of having

chosen to do what they've chosen to do. Black-and-white thinking

is something that people with BPD commonly have a problem with.

Those of us who have grown up with parents like that sometimes

pick up the habit of thinking that was as well.

At 02:39 AM 08/10/2011 sweetsoulmusic09 wrote:

>I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting

>myself as well since I have a parent with BPD and several

>relatives with mental illness. In regards to depression, I've

>unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience with it

>first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty

>horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps

>we all deal in things in completely different ways, so my

>response could be different than some, I suppose. Just earlier

>this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring dreams

>of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

>it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were

>pointless and I didn't want to be alive anymore. This sadly,

>is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've gone through

>in the past.

>

>My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

>discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I

>was trapped and subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen

>the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like that girl growing

>up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

>future and praying for better days. I've gone through the

>whole mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just

>there for me to figure out how to fix my own problems. As a

>teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it did

>absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my

>body. I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of

>what is going on inside physically, emotionally and mentally.

>

>At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship

>with myself where I would always do small things to make myself

>feel better. If writing brought me joy, I would do that... If

>taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step, I would do

>that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

>meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut,

>etc. I always found small ways to bring joy to myself, and

>developed an incredibly strong optimism that allowed me to

>focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

>imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and

>try to ignore all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy

>world. For instance, my parents got into major screaming

>matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but I

>was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to

>christmas music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by

>myself reading christmas stories, and kept my attitude happy no

>matter how they were acting. I always had a good christmas by

>myself.

>

>I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and

>there was nothing I could do about it because I was mentally

>ill, I would be dooming myself to a miserable life. This

>theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes to

>depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

>capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better

>than they would have ever imagined.

>

>I have practically been through hell and back, and I really

>don't believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have

>had to do an incredible amount of work in order to be where I

>am now, but it was so worth it. Granted, situationally I may

>not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

>relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I

>live with my BPD father currently, but I stay sane because I

>have 2 little dogs that spend all day with me while I work from

>home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling, teaching

>them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am...

>strange bits and all.

>

>I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of

>depression, I would not be as sane and balanced as I am right

>now. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm

>not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To me,

>its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

>illness.

>

>

>

>I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the

> " Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men "

>and worked with domestic violence cases. This person got what

>I was saying... what makes the BPD person different from a

>normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious

>intent. If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up

>the misunderstanding:

>

>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I'm thinking of a book called " Inside the Criminal Mind " by a psychologist named

Stanton Samenow. In it he says that most criminal personalities, while they

aren't considering change most of the time, have " choice points " in their lives

where circumstances get tough for them and they start to consider a change.

Considering that most of these people he writes about would qualify for an ASP

diagnosis, and considering that I've seen this behavior in my grandfather whom I

now suspect is probably BPD, it would seem to me that those personality

disordered who are biologically capable of change follow this pattern.

Maybe they aren't capable of change all the time (because those are the times it

" looks like " their behavior is " working for them " ), but all but the most severe

biologically based cases will have those moments of choice.

If you ask me, those moments of choice make the difference between good and

evil.

--.

[Guest guest]

Personally, I think you have the right to believe anything you want to *about

your own condition*.

The problem is that you are promoting misinformation about a medical issue, and

advising others that they are foolish or misguided to follow their own doctor's

advice RE the treatment of a medical disorder.

Anyone who is feeling that he or she might be depressed needs to handle it in

the best way he or she sees fit, and if their own, trusted doctor suggests a

psychiatric evaluation and/or drug therapy, then, its up to the adult patient to

agree or not.

This issue comes up from time to time at support groups like this one. Some

individuals believe that there is a conspiracy involving the medical community

and the drug companies (and sometimes the government too) who are working

together to " drug America for profit. "

I'm not into conspiracy-theory stuff, myself.

So, please DO tell us how you beat your depression, but please do not claim that

all depression is like yours, or can be resolved the same way you resolved

yours, and please do not tell other people to ignore their own doctor's advice

because the drug companies are out to " get " us.

Thanks,

-Annie

> > >

> > > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as

well since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness.

In regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of

experience with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some

pretty horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal

in things in completely different ways, so my response could be different than

some, I suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have

recurring dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't

want to be alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the

horrors I've gone through in the past.

> > >

> > > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered

at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > >

> > > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> > >

> > > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> > >

> > > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe

that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount

of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> > >

> > > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would

not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does

He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> > >

> > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

when it comes to causation literally anything is possible. A tv show I had the

other day had a woman becoming sociopathic (diagnosed by PET scans) because of a

food allergy that was never detected and she lost the ability to feel emotions

because it affected that part of her brain.

I think you are making a misstep because you talk about treating YOUR depression

based on chemical reactions to certain foods in your body; perhaps this question

is better asked of people who have themselves been diagnosed with BPD. If

perhaps there is an imbalance of some sort (and I used to work in a

bacteriology/parisitology lab so I know it's irrefutable that certain

microscopic infestations can make people act 'whacked') you might be able to do

some good for some people...I don't think you are going to find any *common*

denominator except for the one that has already been diagnosed which is abuse,

normally sexual abuse. If you ever watch the show intervention it is striking

that sexual abuse is almost always tagged as causative by the addict themselves

or if not, it's physical non-sexual abuse and psychological abuse that

predisposes one to seek medicinal numbing of unresolved trauma. I can say for

myself that I have that, but I also for whatever reason had severe reactions as

a child to *something* either environmental or that I ingested and because of

that was taken to the Dr and given antibiotics about a dozen to 20 times in

addition to that which was given for regular childhood illnesses. This killed

off good bacteria as well as bad, allowed candida to overgrow in my digestive

system, and set me up to have a terrible time with sugar cravings and

predisposed me also to alcoholism. So I can see how it can be a chain reaction.

But it's a moot point when dealing with the *effects* of the alcoholism...if I

took this argument to al anon they wouldn't give two cents what caused me to

over-drink and behave like an arse because they are too busy trying there to

heal from the effects of my behaving like the arse I was when I drank. And to

ask them to care about the root of my condition going back decades would be

asking them to take up codependency, which is the very thing they are there to

divest themselves of.

> > >

> > > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as

well since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness.

In regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of

experience with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some

pretty horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal

in things in completely different ways, so my response could be different than

some, I suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have

recurring dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't

want to be alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the

horrors I've gone through in the past.

> > >

> > > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered

at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > >

> > > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> > >

> > > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> > >

> > > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe

that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount

of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> > >

> > > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would

not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does

He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> > >

> > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Two things popped into my mind while I was reading your posts that I wanted to

share:

1) Your digestion related problems sound a lot like mine-I have battled multiple

food allergies, leaky gut, candida, etc. I recently found out that I make little

to no stomach acid--my MD feels this is the underlying issue that has caused all

my digestive issues. Likely it was the PTSD from growing up in a BPD house that

essentially 'shut off' my ability to make HCL.

2) I am glad you clarified your point on depression. Part of our recovery here

is owning the feelings we were denied as children, and many of us have fought

depression at one time or another. Which leads me to . . .

.. . . a common reason behind depression is the denial of feelings. Pretending

everything in our world is ok when it clearly isn't takes a lot of energy. It is

exhausting. Burying the head in the sand and pretending everything is ok is an

often used coping mechanism in childhood, when we were powerless to get away

from our abusers. As adults, we have the choice of facing our demons or

continuing to manage them the same way we did in childhood.

There came a time for me when the actual reality of what I was living with did

not jibe with the fantasy, and I could not pretend/deny the truth any longer.

That is when I started my process. I became honest with myself and others, to

the point (I'm sure) I was painful to be around. I developed a well-honed BS

meter, which helps me avoid the people of the world who aren't 'real.'

Historically, all the people in my life who weren't 'real' weren't trustworthy,

either. They were dangerous.

But everyone has their own truths to face and everyone goes at a different pace.

I also know some people never find their way to being 'real' because the journey

itself might break them in two.

I wish you only the best on your journey and want you to know we are here for

you with hugs anytime you need support.

>

> I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as well

since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness. In

regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience

with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty horrific

events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal in things in

completely different ways, so my response could be different than some, I

suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring

dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to it and sort

of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't want to be

alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've

gone through in the past.

>

> My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered at

a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

>

> At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself where

I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing brought

me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step,

I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite meal,

reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always found

small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong optimism

that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore all

of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents got

into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but

I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas music,

decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas stories, and

kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always had a good

christmas by myself.

>

> I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was nothing

I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming myself to a

miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes

to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is capable of

doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would have ever

imagined.

>

> I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe that

depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount of

work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

>

> I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would not

be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

>

>

>

> I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does He

Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting!! Do you remember what show that was? I want to look it up.

The way the human body works is so incredibly fascinating to me.

There was a lot of things that went into fixing the depression I experienced...

lots of fixing my perception, dealing with things, fixing food allergies,

learning to enjoy working out, etc. I learned to identify exactly what my needs

were and then figured out how to meet them. It's drastically more complicated

than that, but that's the gist.

Wow, I had no idea sexual abuse can prone people particularly to alcoholism.

And wow again how the antibiotics set you up for sugar and alcohol cravings.

Have you found ways to combat the intense cravings? Do you take probiotics and

such to replace the deficit of bacteria, or something like it? It's such a

shame that medications produce such strong side effects. The asthma medications

I was on gave me a fast heartbeat.

Yea, I see what you are saying. I suppose the bigger picture might be more than

some people would want to deal with, especially if they are still healing from

traumatic events. One step at a time I suppose.

This is completely random but I decided to try this procedure called NAET

yesterday. The guy that does it was a petroleum engineer for 14 years and then

went to acupuncture school... long story. I felt better knowing the guy was

fact based and not so voodoo let me talk to your subconscious kind of way.

Anyways, after the treatment they gave me acupuncture. I did not know a thing

about it or what it was supposed to do... But after I left, I felt like I had

been given a sedative and a muscle relaxant. I felt so at peace with the world

all day... which says a lot because I'm prone to stressing out VERY easily (darn

sensory defensiveness). I'm thinking about trying to get my BPD dad to go in

there and see if it can help him. It was the strangest thing... Who would have

thought sticking some needles in your skin could have such a profound effect on

your mood. I was super sleepy all day and super calm.

> > > >

> > > > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as

well since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness.

In regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of

experience with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some

pretty horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal

in things in completely different ways, so my response could be different than

some, I suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have

recurring dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't

want to be alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the

horrors I've gone through in the past.

> > > >

> > > > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and

subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt

a lot like that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming

of a better future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole

mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out

how to fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants

and it did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body.

I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > > >

> > > > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> > > >

> > > > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't

believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible

amount of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> > > >

> > > > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I

would not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any

disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't

real period. To me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

illness.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why

Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> > > >

> > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On the depression thing again, I also said that something could be wrong in the

body if they feel like they cannot control it. A good example is the high

suicide rate in seattle, where it is the rainiest darkest place in the country.

If someone feels as if they cannot control it, its worth getting a second and

third opinion to see if something else might be causing their depression. When

it comes to diseases, depression is listed as a symptom of more than I even care

to count. It's worth it to look at the big picture to rule out all other

possible causes, if one feels they cannot control it. There are SO many things

that could be causing it, and if that's the case and they can find the root

cause of it... perhaps its fixable and then they won't have to struggle anymore.

One person mentioned they had a hormone imbalance that causes theres, and

perhaps the correct hormone treatment could make a major difference in the

uncontrollable depression they experience.

Once I broke it down for my own depression, I found about 25 different causes

creating a cluster of reasons, all at once, for why I was experiencing it.

Situational, health reasons, sensitivities to food and chemicals, sensory

issues, giftedness, etc. For instance the sensory issues always made me feel

crazy because I couldn't understand why I would cry uncontrollably in loud

concert halls. Once I understood I was behaving that way because my sensory

system was painfully overstimulated, I was able to not take it as proof of

flawed character (which made me feel bad about myself, thus leading to

depression), and now I just bring ear plugs and I'm fine.

Humans are not black and white. There are so many complicated things... tiny

little details that go into one big picture for what causes something. For

someone who feels suicidal, perhaps there is hope in finding the reasons that

may be causing them to feel the way they do. It's worth it to look at

everything to save their life.

> >I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting

> >myself as well since I have a parent with BPD and several

> >relatives with mental illness. In regards to depression, I've

> >unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience with it

> >first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty

> >horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps

> >we all deal in things in completely different ways, so my

> >response could be different than some, I suppose. Just earlier

> >this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring dreams

> >of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

> >it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were

> >pointless and I didn't want to be alive anymore. This sadly,

> >is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've gone through

> >in the past.

> >

> >My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

> >discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I

> >was trapped and subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen

> >the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like that girl growing

> >up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

> >future and praying for better days. I've gone through the

> >whole mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just

> >there for me to figure out how to fix my own problems. As a

> >teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it did

> >absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my

> >body. I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of

> >what is going on inside physically, emotionally and mentally.

> >

> >At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship

> >with myself where I would always do small things to make myself

> >feel better. If writing brought me joy, I would do that... If

> >taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step, I would do

> >that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

> >meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut,

> >etc. I always found small ways to bring joy to myself, and

> >developed an incredibly strong optimism that allowed me to

> >focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

> >imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and

> >try to ignore all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy

> >world. For instance, my parents got into major screaming

> >matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but I

> >was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to

> >christmas music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by

> >myself reading christmas stories, and kept my attitude happy no

> >matter how they were acting. I always had a good christmas by

> >myself.

> >

> >I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and

> >there was nothing I could do about it because I was mentally

> >ill, I would be dooming myself to a miserable life. This

> >theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes to

> >depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

> >capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better

> >than they would have ever imagined.

> >

> >I have practically been through hell and back, and I really

> >don't believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have

> >had to do an incredible amount of work in order to be where I

> >am now, but it was so worth it. Granted, situationally I may

> >not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

> >relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I

> >live with my BPD father currently, but I stay sane because I

> >have 2 little dogs that spend all day with me while I work from

> >home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling, teaching

> >them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am...

> >strange bits and all.

> >

> >I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of

> >depression, I would not be as sane and balanced as I am right

> >now. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm

> >not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To me,

> >its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

> >illness.

> >

> >

> >

> >I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the

> > " Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men "

> >and worked with domestic violence cases. This person got what

> >I was saying... what makes the BPD person different from a

> >normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious

> >intent. If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up

> >the misunderstanding:

> >

> >http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I just remembered, I saw this lady speak at the TED conference on their website.

They developed a brain scan for detecting learning disabilities. The scientists

believed that you cannot accurately diagnose a brain problem by looking at

behaviors alone, so they developed a scan to detect it. What they found was

that an extraordinarily large number of children they tested who were diagnosed

with autism, were actually having brain seizures. Once they put them on

anti-seziure medication, the kids were completely normal.

I hope one day they can use brain scans for diagnosing psych problems, it would

really be beneficial!

> > > >

> > > > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as

well since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness.

In regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of

experience with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some

pretty horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal

in things in completely different ways, so my response could be different than

some, I suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have

recurring dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't

want to be alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the

horrors I've gone through in the past.

> > > >

> > > > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and

subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt

a lot like that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming

of a better future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole

mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out

how to fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants

and it did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body.

I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > > >

> > > > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> > > >

> > > > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't

believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible

amount of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> > > >

> > > > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I

would not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any

disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't

real period. To me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

illness.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why

Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> > > >

> > > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's a really good point!! That it comes down to those choice moments. I

will look up that book you mentioned, it sounds interesting. I think when

trying to make logical sense of the BPD person, in order to heal, it's hard to

understand exactly how they can make the choices they do.

>

> I'm thinking of a book called " Inside the Criminal Mind " by a psychologist

named Stanton Samenow. In it he says that most criminal personalities, while

they aren't considering change most of the time, have " choice points " in their

lives where circumstances get tough for them and they start to consider a

change. Considering that most of these people he writes about would qualify for

an ASP diagnosis, and considering that I've seen this behavior in my grandfather

whom I now suspect is probably BPD, it would seem to me that those personality

disordered who are biologically capable of change follow this pattern.

>

> Maybe they aren't capable of change all the time (because those are the times

it " looks like " their behavior is " working for them " ), but all but the most

severe biologically based cases will have those moments of choice.

>

> If you ask me, those moments of choice make the difference between good and

evil.

>

> --.

>

[Guest guest]

That lady turned herself into CPS?? How sad!!!! That poor lady and those poor

kids! I cannot even imagine how devastating that must be for all of them.

Terribly heartbreaking. Hopefully one day there will be some sort of cure for

people like the woman you described... someone who wanted desperately not to do

what she did, but could not help herself. Very heartbreaking story!

> >I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting

> >myself as well since I have a parent with BPD and several

> >relatives with mental illness. In regards to depression, I've

> >unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience with it

> >first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty

> >horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps

> >we all deal in things in completely different ways, so my

> >response could be different than some, I suppose. Just earlier

> >this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring dreams

> >of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

> >it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were

> >pointless and I didn't want to be alive anymore. This sadly,

> >is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've gone through

> >in the past.

> >

> >My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

> >discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I

> >was trapped and subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen

> >the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like that girl growing

> >up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

> >future and praying for better days. I've gone through the

> >whole mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just

> >there for me to figure out how to fix my own problems. As a

> >teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it did

> >absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my

> >body. I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of

> >what is going on inside physically, emotionally and mentally.

> >

> >At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship

> >with myself where I would always do small things to make myself

> >feel better. If writing brought me joy, I would do that... If

> >taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step, I would do

> >that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

> >meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut,

> >etc. I always found small ways to bring joy to myself, and

> >developed an incredibly strong optimism that allowed me to

> >focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

> >imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and

> >try to ignore all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy

> >world. For instance, my parents got into major screaming

> >matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but I

> >was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to

> >christmas music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by

> >myself reading christmas stories, and kept my attitude happy no

> >matter how they were acting. I always had a good christmas by

> >myself.

> >

> >I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and

> >there was nothing I could do about it because I was mentally

> >ill, I would be dooming myself to a miserable life. This

> >theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes to

> >depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

> >capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better

> >than they would have ever imagined.

> >

> >I have practically been through hell and back, and I really

> >don't believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have

> >had to do an incredible amount of work in order to be where I

> >am now, but it was so worth it. Granted, situationally I may

> >not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

> >relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I

> >live with my BPD father currently, but I stay sane because I

> >have 2 little dogs that spend all day with me while I work from

> >home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling, teaching

> >them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am...

> >strange bits and all.

> >

> >I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of

> >depression, I would not be as sane and balanced as I am right

> >now. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm

> >not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To me,

> >its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

> >illness.

> >

> >

> >

> >I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the

> > " Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men "

> >and worked with domestic violence cases. This person got what

> >I was saying... what makes the BPD person different from a

> >normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious

> >intent. If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up

> >the misunderstanding:

> >

> >http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my! You poor thing! Food allergies and digestive issues are no picnic.

Have they found a way to help you with the stomach acid issue?

You know, that's a really good point about denial feelings. Perhaps that's a

big part of BPD. I don't know if anyone else's parent was like this, but my

father is always the victim, he never does anything wrong and if you tell him he

was wrong he will disown you. He refuses to go to therapy to deal with issues

from his past. I'm the family therapist in my house so I do lots of telling

them what they are doing, why they are doing it, etc. It's made me develop this

annoying ability to read people really quickly. Perception is everything when

it comes to life. I suppose that's how people in third world african villages

have more joy and happiness than most americans and they have absolutely no

material possessions.

That's fantastic that you felt brave enough to venture off into the painful

territory of dealing with everything that happened to you. Do you mind if I

ask... Around what age did you discover your fantasy wasn't reality? I'm 26 and

I think I'm still living in small amounts of fantasy... I tend to live in dreams

of a better future. Also very good that you have been able to make the

distinction between people who were real friends and people who had a hidden

agenda.

Very true... people handle things when they are ready, some never feel totally

ready.

What you said reminds me of this clip from a Tyler play. You might like

this little 10 minute clip about people and the relationships in our lives:

http://youtu.be/WF_10F7eYRE

Same goes for you! I wish you the best as well, and it sounds like you are

doing a fantastic job so far!!

> >

> > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as well

since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness. In

regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience

with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty horrific

events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal in things in

completely different ways, so my response could be different than some, I

suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring

dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to it and sort

of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't want to be

alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've

gone through in the past.

> >

> > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered

at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> >

> > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> >

> > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> >

> > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe

that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount

of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> >

> > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would

not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

> >

> >

> >

> > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does He

Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> >

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have received NAET treatments since 1998 for various allergies. NAET was what

finally helped me gain back my health from the LG and Chronic Fatigue. Everyone

responds differently, but it should make a noticeable difference with an

experienced practitioner. A warning, though, sometimes the individual allergies

can come back after a while. Most of mine haven't, but then things like milk &

dust apparently need retreating every couple years.

>

>

> This is completely random but I decided to try this procedure called NAET

yesterday. The guy that does it was a petroleum engineer for 14 years and then

went to acupuncture school... long story. I felt better knowing the guy was

fact based and not so voodoo let me talk to your subconscious kind of way.

Anyways, after the treatment they gave me acupuncture. I did not know a thing

about it or what it was supposed to do... But after I left, I felt like I had

been given a sedative and a muscle relaxant. I felt so at peace with the world

all day... which says a lot because I'm prone to stressing out VERY easily (darn

sensory defensiveness). I'm thinking about trying to get my BPD dad to go in

there and see if it can help him. It was the strangest thing... Who would have

thought sticking some needles in your skin could have such a profound effect on

your mood. I was super sleepy all day and super calm.

>

[Guest guest]

I now take HCL tabs with meals to provide the stomach acid. I wish I'd know

about this when I was 20--I could have avoided a lot of problems.

I knew my family was 'different' at an early age--but figured it was somehow my

fault. My mother was just difficult--and I was her child, so I let her have her

way all the time. I thought what she wanted me to think and validated her,

nurtured her, acting as her therapist and marriage counselor. I listened to all

her problems, then played the peacemaker. I was the golden child. By the time I

was 22, I had been exposed to Codependent No More, but did not see how it

applied to me (I was completely blind).

It wasn't until I started a family of my own at 26 that I started questioning

WHY things were the way they were with mom & dad. That is when my fantasy

exploded--I knew my job was to be a good mom and a good wife--not a good

daughter--forever locked into a child role that above everything else

'supported' my parents.

When I decided to take back my life, for the sake of my kids, that's when this

process started for me. I am no longer the enmeshed golden child, and it feels

DAMN good~

> > >

> > > I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting myself as

well since I have a parent with BPD and several relatives with mental illness.

In regards to depression, I've unfortunately had a tremendous amount of

experience with it first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some

pretty horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps we all deal

in things in completely different ways, so my response could be different than

some, I suppose. Just earlier this year, I was so depressed I used to have

recurring dreams of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were pointless and I didn't

want to be alive anymore. This sadly, is incredibly light compared to the

horrors I've gone through in the past.

> > >

> > > My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I discovered

at a very early age that I was depressed because I was trapped and subjected to

being abused. Have you ever seen the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like

that girl growing up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

future and praying for better days. I've gone through the whole mess of

therapy, which really felt like she was just there for me to figure out how to

fix my own problems. As a teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it

did absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my body. I've

always been incredibly introspective and aware of what is going on inside

physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > >

> > > At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship with myself

where I would always do small things to make myself feel better. If writing

brought me joy, I would do that... If taking a walk outside put a little pep in

my step, I would do that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut, etc. I always

found small ways to bring joy to myself, and developed an incredibly strong

optimism that allowed me to focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of

my imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and try to ignore

all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy world. For instance, my parents

got into major screaming matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD,

but I was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to christmas

music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by myself reading christmas

stories, and kept my attitude happy no matter how they were acting. I always

had a good christmas by myself.

> > >

> > > I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and there was

nothing I could do about it because I was mentally ill, I would be dooming

myself to a miserable life. This theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting

when it comes to depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better than they would

have ever imagined.

> > >

> > > I have practically been through hell and back, and I really don't believe

that depression is a mental illness. I've have had to do an incredible amount

of work in order to be where I am now, but it was so worth it. Granted,

situationally I may not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I live with my BPD

father currently, but I stay sane because I have 2 little dogs that spend all

day with me while I work from home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling,

teaching them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am... strange

bits and all.

> > >

> > > I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of depression, I would

not be as sane and balanced as I am right now. I do not mean any disrespect to

anyone at all, and I'm not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To

me, its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental illness.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the " Why Does

He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men " and worked with domestic

violence cases. This person got what I was saying... what makes the BPD person

different from a normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious intent.

If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up the misunderstanding:

> > >

> > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You did?? It helped? That's good to know! Did you experience any side

effects? It's been 27 hours since treatment and right now my allergies are

twice as bad as they normally are. I'm hoping its just like detox symptoms...

how you experience a cluster of symptoms that you had when you first got

toxified before you feel great. I feel like I have a cold or something because

I absolutely cannot stop sneezing. Did you do the original one or the computer

treatment? My dr uses the machine with the arm band that treats you for 10

allergies per session.

I'm not allergic to milk but I am lactose intolerant... is it the same thing on

NAET?

How long did it take you to first notice a difference from the treatments?

Sorry for all of the questions. Not a whole lot of information out there about

it.

This is me today... *yawn* *sneeze* *sneeze* *sneeze* *gasp* *sneeze*

*sneeze* *sneeze* *gasp* *sweat* *yawn* *repeat*

> >

>

> >

> > This is completely random but I decided to try this procedure called NAET

yesterday. The guy that does it was a petroleum engineer for 14 years and then

went to acupuncture school... long story. I felt better knowing the guy was

fact based and not so voodoo let me talk to your subconscious kind of way.

Anyways, after the treatment they gave me acupuncture. I did not know a thing

about it or what it was supposed to do... But after I left, I felt like I had

been given a sedative and a muscle relaxant. I felt so at peace with the world

all day... which says a lot because I'm prone to stressing out VERY easily (darn

sensory defensiveness). I'm thinking about trying to get my BPD dad to go in

there and see if it can help him. It was the strangest thing... Who would have

thought sticking some needles in your skin could have such a profound effect on

your mood. I was super sleepy all day and super calm.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All manual--my dr muscle tests each substance, then treats up to 3 per session.

He stimulates the areas on the spine using a chiropractic hammer, checks to make

sure the change took via muscle testing again, then needles the 4 acupuncture

tonic points.

I remember an increase in symptoms for the first 24-48 hrs after treatment, then

that gradually subsides.

>

> You did?? It helped? That's good to know! Did you experience any side

effects? It's been 27 hours since treatment and right now my allergies are

twice as bad as they normally are. I'm hoping its just like detox symptoms...

how you experience a cluster of symptoms that you had when you first got

toxified before you feel great. I feel like I have a cold or something because

I absolutely cannot stop sneezing. Did you do the original one or the computer

treatment? My dr uses the machine with the arm band that treats you for 10

allergies per session.

>

> I'm not allergic to milk but I am lactose intolerant... is it the same thing

on NAET?

>

> How long did it take you to first notice a difference from the treatments?

>

>

> Sorry for all of the questions. Not a whole lot of information out there

about it.

>

>

> This is me today... *yawn* *sneeze* *sneeze* *sneeze* *gasp* *sneeze*

*sneeze* *sneeze* *gasp* *sweat* *yawn* *repeat*

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry but I just have to note that I never said my depression was

uncontrollable, and please don't use my experiences to defend your defunct

argument. Thank you.

> > >I don't mean to insult anyone. Besides, I would be insulting

> > >myself as well since I have a parent with BPD and several

> > >relatives with mental illness. In regards to depression, I've

> > >unfortunately had a tremendous amount of experience with it

> > >first hand my entire existence. I've gone through some pretty

> > >horrific events in my lifetime, one after the other. Perhaps

> > >we all deal in things in completely different ways, so my

> > >response could be different than some, I suppose. Just earlier

> > >this year, I was so depressed I used to have recurring dreams

> > >of my own death, at first it scared me but then I got used to

> > >it and sort of accepted it. I felt as if my life were

> > >pointless and I didn't want to be alive anymore. This sadly,

> > >is incredibly light compared to the horrors I've gone through

> > >in the past.

> > >

> > >My coping mechanism has always been to move forward in life. I

> > >discovered at a very early age that I was depressed because I

> > >was trapped and subjected to being abused. Have you ever seen

> > >the movie " Sucker Punch " ? I felt a lot like that girl growing

> > >up. I would hide away in my imagination dreaming of a better

> > >future and praying for better days. I've gone through the

> > >whole mess of therapy, which really felt like she was just

> > >there for me to figure out how to fix my own problems. As a

> > >teenager they even put me on anti-deppressants and it did

> > >absolutely nothing for me, other than mess up the health of my

> > >body. I've always been incredibly introspective and aware of

> > >what is going on inside physically, emotionally and mentally.

> > >

> > >At an extremely early age, I developed a strong relationship

> > >with myself where I would always do small things to make myself

> > >feel better. If writing brought me joy, I would do that... If

> > >taking a walk outside put a little pep in my step, I would do

> > >that. It could be something simple like cooking my favorite

> > >meal, reading a book, redecorating my room, getting a haircut,

> > >etc. I always found small ways to bring joy to myself, and

> > >developed an incredibly strong optimism that allowed me to

> > >focus on what I do have. Perhaps that was part of my

> > >imaginational escape. When you look at what you do have and

> > >try to ignore all of the bad stuff, you can end up in a happy

> > >world. For instance, my parents got into major screaming

> > >matches every single year on Christmas and it was BAD, but I

> > >was determined to have a good christmas, so I would listen to

> > >christmas music, decorate the tree, hang out in my room by

> > >myself reading christmas stories, and kept my attitude happy no

> > >matter how they were acting. I always had a good christmas by

> > >myself.

> > >

> > >I feel like if I had just accepted that I was depressed and

> > >there was nothing I could do about it because I was mentally

> > >ill, I would be dooming myself to a miserable life. This

> > >theory of " brain chemicals " is so limiting when it comes to

> > >depression. You are what you think. Everyone on this earth is

> > >capable of doing SO much and making their life so much better

> > >than they would have ever imagined.

> > >

> > >I have practically been through hell and back, and I really

> > >don't believe that depression is a mental illness. I've have

> > >had to do an incredible amount of work in order to be where I

> > >am now, but it was so worth it. Granted, situationally I may

> > >not be where I wish I could be right now, but I'm still

> > >relatively satisfied with where I am and where I'm heading. I

> > >live with my BPD father currently, but I stay sane because I

> > >have 2 little dogs that spend all day with me while I work from

> > >home. In my own little world I am happy, smiling, teaching

> > >them, and I have friends who accept me exactly for who I am...

> > >strange bits and all.

> > >

> > >I think if I had accepted the drug companies theory of

> > >depression, I would not be as sane and balanced as I am right

> > >now. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone at all, and I'm

> > >not trying to say that depression isn't real period. To me,

> > >its a temporary situation or a symptom of a serious mental

> > >illness.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >I wrote a reply to another person on the board who had read the

> > > " Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Controlling Men "

> > >and worked with domestic violence cases. This person got what

> > >I was saying... what makes the BPD person different from a

> > >normal abuser who does it all with conscious malicious

> > >intent. If you check out this post, hopefully it will clear up

> > >the misunderstanding:

> > >

> > >http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WTOAdultChildren1/message/132653

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>