a BP beginning to recover and also try to deal with a BP mother

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my mother

and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just always

seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with almost

the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of chaos

and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships ended,

I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of making up

stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I was

finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had their

problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each

one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within me.

Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I needed to

take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April 2011 I have

made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship. Beyond that, he

proposed this January and we will be married next May. However, while I have

been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings were still

there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they

were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my fiance

must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my fiance

continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having stood up

to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for himself.

Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and somehow

after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years to

determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my life,

including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems to be

because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always

me with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book

last week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I am

incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the

book and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during

the first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about

how it probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear

since I'm such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important component, it

seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while

communicating with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her

fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that

she could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being

completely excluded from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let

her down (a typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do

anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could

point to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so

much more for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this

was before reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back

would only make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

logically explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair

to compare how she acted towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I

am at in my life right now is also very different than where she was at. Since

then (last Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears to me

that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting

me out first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent

an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but

still have heard nothing.

If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke specific

reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact that it

isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we need

to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will allow

her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she were

willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be

able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of anger

towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self esteem a

bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that I

need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out even

more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own BPD

before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

[Guest guest]

Hi Kalosalethe,

Actually, this support Group is for those who do not have borderline pd but are

the children (adult children) of parents who have borderline personality

disorder. The discussions here are mainly about having borderline pd parents.

If you have bpd yourself, you will probably find the topics and discussions at

this Group very triggering or upsetting instead of helpful to you.

There are support Groups like this one on the Internet for those who do have

borderline pd; here are some links to groups for those with borderline pd, that

seem to have a good-sized membership and are active:

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/borderline-personality-discussions

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/BPDTodayNewsletter/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/PersonalityDisorders/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/dbtclass/

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my

mother and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just

always seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with

almost the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of

chaos and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of

making up stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

> It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I was

finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had their

problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each

one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within me.

Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I needed to

take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April 2011 I have

made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship. Beyond that, he

proposed this January and we will be married next May. However, while I have

been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings were still

there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they

were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my fiance

must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my fiance

continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having stood up

to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for himself.

Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

> While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and somehow

after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years to

determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

> I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my life,

including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems to be

because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always

me with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book

last week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I am

incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the

book and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during

the first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

> The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about

how it probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear

since I'm such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important component, it

seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while

communicating with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her

fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that

she could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being

completely excluded from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let

her down (a typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do

anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could

point to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so

much more for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this

was before reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back

would only make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

logically explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair

to compare how she acted towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I

am at in my life right now is also very different than where she was at. Since

then (last Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears to me

that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting

me out first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent

an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but

still have heard nothing.

> If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke

specific reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact

that it isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that

we need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she

were willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will

not be able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of

anger towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self

esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she

will contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that

I need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out

even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own BPD

before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thank you for those suggestions I will check them out. I only joined this one

since we believe my mother has BPD herself.

You're right though, it might not be the best place for me.

Thanks.

> >

> > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my

mother and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just

always seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with

almost the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of

chaos and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of

making up stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

> > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I was

finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had their

problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each

one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within me.

Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I needed to

take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April 2011 I have

made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship. Beyond that, he

proposed this January and we will be married next May. However, while I have

been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings were still

there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they

were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my fiance

must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my fiance

continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having stood up

to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for himself.

Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

> > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and somehow

after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years to

determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my life,

including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems to be

because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always

me with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book

last week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I am

incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the

book and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during

the first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

> > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about

how it probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear

since I'm such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important component, it

seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while

communicating with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her

fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that

she could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being

completely excluded from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let

her down (a typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do

anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could

point to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so

much more for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this

was before reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back

would only make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

logically explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair

to compare how she acted towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I

am at in my life right now is also very different than where she was at. Since

then (last Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears to me

that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting

me out first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent

an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but

still have heard nothing.

> > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke

specific reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact

that it isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that

we need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she

were willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will

not be able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of

anger towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self

esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she

will contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that

I need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out

even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own BPD

before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Whatever other problems you do or don't cause, you did NOT cause

your mother to develop BPD. That's just not the way it works.

BPD is something that generally develops in adolescence. It is

possible that it worked the other way around though. Children

who have traumatic and/or abusive childhoods do sometimes devlop

BPD. Your description of your mother's reaction to your wedding

plans does sound pretty typical of a mother with BPD.

I think you should be less than certain about whether you have

BPD. Maybe you do and maybe you don't. Your description of

yourself doesn't sound typical of someone with BPD. People with

BPD don't believe there is anything wrong with them so they

almost never choose to seek treatment. They normally fight the

whole idea of having a mental illness and getting therapy for

themselves. The ones who do seek treatment generally do so

either when forced or for some reason other than believing they

have a personality disorder. If they start treatment for some

other reason they tend to quit when the therapist mentions the

possibility of BPD. You could be one of the rare people who

admit to having a problem and seek treatment for it, but it

seems as likely to me that what you have is what we call " fleas "

- that is behavioral patterns and ways of thinking learned from

a parent with BPD. It is normal for children to learn how to

interact with other people by watching their parents. If you

have a parent who behaves badly and no one to tell you that

there's something wrong with that, it is understandable that

you'd have learned to behave in a similar fashion. And to add

insult on top of injury where that's concerned, children who

grow up with a parent with BPD commonly get taught that they are

somehow responsible for anything that is wrong. Thinking you

somehow gave your mother BPD is a good example of that. If you

do have BPD, I wish you good luck in your battle against it, but

like Annie, I wonder whether this group is the right place for

you. We are quite candid about how we feel about our parents and

while I don't think any of us would want to hurt you, I think

we'd end up doing so because if you have BPD you're likely to

feel attacked by our discussions about how people with BPD

behave.

It is not selfish of you to want to take some time away from

your mother to sort out your own problems. (The fact that you

are asking that question is one of the things that makes me

question whether you have BPD yourself. Putting someone else's

needs first is not something people with BPD tend to be able to

do.) Your own mental health needs to come first, and your

commitment to your husband-to-be ought to be your primary

relationship at this point, not your relationship with your

mother. You need to keep things with him on a good and healthy

footing. If you later have children, protecting them from any

kind of abuse moves to the top of the list. You are not supposed

to have to sacrifice yourself to do everything you possibly can

to help your mother. I don't see any mention in your message of

her being incapable of dealing with the basic necessities of her

life, so I'm not clear on what kind of help you think she needs

right now. If you have the idea that you're going to help her

see that she has BPD, you can probably forget that idea.

At 07:03 PM 03/25/2012 kalosalethe wrote:

>Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not

>right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

>something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

>much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

>Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

>relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed like

>rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships ended,

>I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the

>point of making up stories about alleged behavior that they

>really never exhibited.

>It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

>fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

>while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't right

>for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one of them

>and what was the real cause of them ending was something within

>me. Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I

>simply decided I needed to take control of my life and

>fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't do this

>anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April

>2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to save the

>relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January and we

>will be married next May. However, while I have been able to

>completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

>causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying

>feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost worse,

>because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong and

>shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

>fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

>way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to time

>with himself for not having stood up to me properly and for not

>having been able to stand up more for himself. Because of all

>of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

>and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things

>out.

>While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother,

>and somehow after one session he seems to have figured out what

>it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I read " Stop

>Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might better

>explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

>more than that...it was the most eye opening experience

>ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I felt as if

>the author had somehow seen into my life because they were

>describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those in my

>life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real

>issue I am struggling with right now is trying to determine if

>that is what my mother has.

>I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

>throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

>right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

>starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

>going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

>where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

>thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

>mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last week

>I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

>My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever

>met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While I

>firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how to

>handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot easier

>having someone like him by my side. He has also read through

>the book and feels much better now that he can understand what

>was going on during the first year of our relationship and now

>that there really was nothing that he could have done or said

>any differently, without somehow knowing what was going on with

>me, to have helped things any sooner.

>The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

>mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

>wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to help

>me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every idea

>that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment,

>usually about how it probably costs way too much, and what I

>really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a princess. I

>can see now that this behavior of hers, which has gone on for

>30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

>nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important

>component, it seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't

>know how to do that while communicating with her. She has gone

> " on strike " because she is in one of her fits right now. She

>would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that she

>could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that

>she is being completely excluded from the wedding, that I have

>taken away everything nice and she is so very lonely. She

>e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let her down (a

>typical form of communication for her), explaining that we

>NEVER do anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at

>least 10 recent events I could point to of just us doing

>things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so much more

>for her mother because she really cared about her

>mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells book, I

>didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only make things

>worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to logically

>explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

>explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and

>how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards her mother to

>how I act towards her as where I am at in my life right now is

>also very different than where she was at. Since then (last

>Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears

>to me that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her

>out, and so is shutting me out first. There is nothing that I

>can do to get her to talk to me. I sent an e-mail to her

>Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

>participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to

>talk to her, but still have heard nothing.

>If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to

>provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully project her

>pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working seems to only be

>making things worse for her. I know that we need to have a

>talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

>allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right

>now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know that talk is

>going to be very difficult. I will not be able to react

>emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of anger

>towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up

>my self esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost

>terrifies me more thinking she will contact me any moment

>saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that I need to

>take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash

>out even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in

>fear of her next move.

>Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work

>out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try to

>remind myself that working on myself is not just for me, but is

>also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to help my

>relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

>telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

>everything I can right now to try and help her...

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I agree with everything Katrina wrote.

> **

> ag

>

> Whatever other problems you do or don't cause, you did NOT cause

> your mother to develop BPD. That's just not the way it works.

> BPD is something that generally develops in adolescence. It is

> possible that it worked the other way around though. Children

> who have traumatic and/or abusive childhoods do sometimes devlop

> BPD. Your description of your mother's reaction to your wedding

> plans does sound pretty typical of a mother with BPD.

>

> I think you should be less than certain about whether you have

> BPD. Maybe you do and maybe you don't. Your description of

> yourself doesn't sound typical of someone with BPD. People with

> BPD don't believe there is anything wrong with them so they

> almost never choose to seek treatment. They normally fight the

> whole idea of having a mental illness and getting therapy for

> themselves. The ones who do seek treatment generally do so

> either when forced or for some reason other than believing they

> have a personality disorder. If they start treatment for some

> other reason they tend to quit when the therapist mentions the

> possibility of BPD. You could be one of the rare people who

> admit to having a problem and seek treatment for it, but it

> seems as likely to me that what you have is what we call " fleas "

> - that is behavioral patterns and ways of thinking learned from

> a parent with BPD. It is normal for children to learn how to

> interact with other people by watching their parents. If you

> have a parent who behaves badly and no one to tell you that

> there's something wrong with that, it is understandable that

> you'd have learned to behave in a similar fashion. And to add

> insult on top of injury where that's concerned, children who

> grow up with a parent with BPD commonly get taught that they are

> somehow responsible for anything that is wrong. Thinking you

> somehow gave your mother BPD is a good example of that. If you

> do have BPD, I wish you good luck in your battle against it, but

> like Annie, I wonder whether this group is the right place for

> you. We are quite candid about how we feel about our parents and

> while I don't think any of us would want to hurt you, I think

> we'd end up doing so because if you have BPD you're likely to

> feel attacked by our discussions about how people with BPD

> behave.

>

> It is not selfish of you to want to take some time away from

> your mother to sort out your own problems. (The fact that you

> are asking that question is one of the things that makes me

> question whether you have BPD yourself. Putting someone else's

> needs first is not something people with BPD tend to be able to

> do.) Your own mental health needs to come first, and your

> commitment to your husband-to-be ought to be your primary

> relationship at this point, not your relationship with your

> mother. You need to keep things with him on a good and healthy

> footing. If you later have children, protecting them from any

> kind of abuse moves to the top of the list. You are not supposed

> to have to sacrifice yourself to do everything you possibly can

> to help your mother. I don't see any mention in your message of

> her being incapable of dealing with the basic necessities of her

> life, so I'm not clear on what kind of help you think she needs

> right now. If you have the idea that you're going to help her

> see that she has BPD, you can probably forget that idea.

>

>

> At 07:03 PM 03/25/2012 kalosalethe wrote:

> >Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not

> >right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> >something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> >much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> >Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> > " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> >relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed like

> >rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships ended,

> >I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the

> >point of making up stories about alleged behavior that they

> >really never exhibited.

> >It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> >fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> >while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't right

> >for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one of them

> >and what was the real cause of them ending was something within

> >me. Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I

> >simply decided I needed to take control of my life and

> >fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't do this

> >anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April

> >2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to save the

> >relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January and we

> >will be married next May. However, while I have been able to

> >completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

> >causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying

> >feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost worse,

> >because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong and

> >shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> >fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> >way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to time

> >with himself for not having stood up to me properly and for not

> >having been able to stand up more for himself. Because of all

> >of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

> >and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things

> >out.

> >While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother,

> >and somehow after one session he seems to have figured out what

> >it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I read " Stop

> >Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might better

> >explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

> >more than that...it was the most eye opening experience

> >ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I felt as if

> >the author had somehow seen into my life because they were

> >describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those in my

> >life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real

> >issue I am struggling with right now is trying to determine if

> >that is what my mother has.

> >I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> >throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> >right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> >starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> >going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> >where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> >thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> >mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last week

> >I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> >My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever

> >met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While I

> >firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how to

> >handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot easier

> >having someone like him by my side. He has also read through

> >the book and feels much better now that he can understand what

> >was going on during the first year of our relationship and now

> >that there really was nothing that he could have done or said

> >any differently, without somehow knowing what was going on with

> >me, to have helped things any sooner.

> >The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> >mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> >wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to help

> >me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every idea

> >that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment,

> >usually about how it probably costs way too much, and what I

> >really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a princess. I

> >can see now that this behavior of hers, which has gone on for

> >30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

> >nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important

> >component, it seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't

> >know how to do that while communicating with her. She has gone

> > " on strike " because she is in one of her fits right now. She

> >would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that she

> >could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that

> >she is being completely excluded from the wedding, that I have

> >taken away everything nice and she is so very lonely. She

> >e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let her down (a

> >typical form of communication for her), explaining that we

> >NEVER do anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at

> >least 10 recent events I could point to of just us doing

> >things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so much more

> >for her mother because she really cared about her

> >mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells book, I

> >didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only make things

> >worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to logically

> >explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

> >explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and

> >how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards her mother to

> >how I act towards her as where I am at in my life right now is

> >also very different than where she was at. Since then (last

> >Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears

> >to me that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her

> >out, and so is shutting me out first. There is nothing that I

> >can do to get her to talk to me. I sent an e-mail to her

> >Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

> >participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to

> >talk to her, but still have heard nothing.

> >If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to

> >provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully project her

> >pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working seems to only be

> >making things worse for her. I know that we need to have a

> >talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

> >allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right

> >now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know that talk is

> >going to be very difficult. I will not be able to react

> >emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of anger

> >towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up

> >my self esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost

> >terrifies me more thinking she will contact me any moment

> >saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that I need to

> >take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash

> >out even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in

> >fear of her next move.

> >Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work

> >out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try to

> >remind myself that working on myself is not just for me, but is

> >also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to help my

> >relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

> >telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> >everything I can right now to try and help her...

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Growing up at the knee of our BPD parent with their socially inappropriate

attitudes and unregulated emotional excess, we can take on similar behaviors and

attitudes simply because they were our role model. These are referred to as

FLEAS in this group. So please do not assume you are BPD--you may be only full

of FLEAS! Most BPD's would rather die than admit they have a problem, nor would

they volunteer to take on the responsibility to fix their mental health.

Please talk to your therapist and ask for their opinion! Do not try to diagnose

yourself.

After I found out about BPD, I was very confused and scared to death that I was

a BPD like my mom, or I was somehow responsible for Mom being BPD. Luckily I had

a good therapist that was able to help me sort it all out, mainly by reminding

me of the times when I was always trying to be responsible and keep the peace

(to my own detriment).

Take care and good luck~

>

> Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my

mother and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just

always seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with

almost the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of

chaos and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of

making up stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

> It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I was

finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had their

problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each

one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within me.

Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I needed to

take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April 2011 I have

made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship. Beyond that, he

proposed this January and we will be married next May. However, while I have

been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings were still

there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they

were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my fiance

must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my fiance

continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having stood up

to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for himself.

Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

> While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and somehow

after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years to

determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

> I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my life,

including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems to be

because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always

me with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book

last week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I am

incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the

book and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during

the first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

> The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about

how it probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear

since I'm such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important component, it

seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while

communicating with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her

fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that

she could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being

completely excluded from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let

her down (a typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do

anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could

point to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so

much more for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this

was before reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back

would only make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

logically explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair

to compare how she acted towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I

am at in my life right now is also very different than where she was at. Since

then (last Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears to me

that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting

me out first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent

an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but

still have heard nothing.

> If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke

specific reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact

that it isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that

we need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she

were willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will

not be able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of

anger towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self

esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she

will contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that

I need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out

even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own BPD

before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded to my message. I appreciate all

of the feedback. While I do entertain the idea it would just be FLEAS, I just

feel that my own outrageous behavior, particularly over the past 10 years or so,

is a little more than that. It would certainly be great to just be able to

assign all the blame to my mom, but I don't know if that is going to be the

right thing to do.

For now I am just trying to sort out the current situation of how to deal with

this silent treatment she has imposed. This episode has been going on for over

2 weeks now, and I have had no communication of any kind from her in 9 days,

despite my trying to reach out in the most neutral way possible. I don't know

if I should even continue trying to reach out (with e-mails that simply say " Hi

mom, just wanted to say I love you and hope you are doing ok. I hope to hear

from you soon so that we can try to work something out " ), or if that may be

encouraging her behavior? These silent treatments always seem to be a desperate

attempt for control, and it always seems she is trying to evoke certain

reactions from me. If, however, I do not continue reaching out, I already know

how that will go. If and when I do talk to her (to have THE talk about setting

limits), she will rail into me for how much I didn't care and didn't even make

an effort.

I feel so torn as to what to do right now. I know I cannot send her any more

e-mails or leave her a voicemail speaking any form of reason or rational

thought. But do I just stop trying to communicate altogether or at least

continue to make it clear that I am not shutting her out, and am making an

effort?

> >

> > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my

mother and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just

always seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with

almost the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of

chaos and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of

making up stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

> > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I was

finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had their

problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each

one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within me.

Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I needed to

take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April 2011 I have

made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship. Beyond that, he

proposed this January and we will be married next May. However, while I have

been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior that was

causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings were still

there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they

were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my fiance

must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my fiance

continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having stood up

to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for himself.

Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own anymore

and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

> > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and somehow

after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years to

determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my life,

including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems to be

because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always

me with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book

last week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I am

incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the

book and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during

the first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

> > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about

how it probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear

since I'm such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to

nothing. Building back up my self esteem is the most important component, it

seems, to my own recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while

communicating with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her

fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that

she could persuade him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being

completely excluded from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let

her down (a typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do

anything just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could

point to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so

much more for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this

was before reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back

would only make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

logically explain that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and

explain the ways I have been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair

to compare how she acted towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I

am at in my life right now is also very different than where she was at. Since

then (last Sunday) I have received no communication from her. It appears to me

that she is in a panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting

me out first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent

an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was

participating in and to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but

still have heard nothing.

> > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke

specific reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact

that it isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that

we need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she

were willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will

not be able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of

anger towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self

esteem a bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she

will contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that

I need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out

even more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own BPD

before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, i would say borderlines are particularly driven by a fear of abandonment.

She is using this against you. If i were you id stop playing her games. You

cannot win with her or please her. Good luck. If you are taking responsibility

for your behavior, i dont see how you can be borderline.

Sent from my mobile device.

> Thank you so much to everyone who has responded to my message. I appreciate

all of the feedback. While I do entertain the idea it would just be FLEAS, I

just feel that my own outrageous behavior, particularly over the past 10 years

or so, is a little more than that. It would certainly be great to just be able

to assign all the blame to my mom, but I don't know if that is going to be the

right thing to do.

> For now I am just trying to sort out the current situation of how to deal with

this silent treatment she has imposed. This episode has been going on for over 2

weeks now, and I have had no communication of any kind from her in 9 days,

despite my trying to reach out in the most neutral way possible. I don't know if

I should even continue trying to reach out (with e-mails that simply say " Hi

mom, just wanted to say I love you and hope you are doing ok. I hope to hear

from you soon so that we can try to work something out " ), or if that may be

encouraging her behavior? These silent treatments always seem to be a desperate

attempt for control, and it always seems she is trying to evoke certain

reactions from me. If, however, I do not continue reaching out, I already know

how that will go. If and when I do talk to her (to have THE talk about setting

limits), she will rail into me for how much I didn't care and didn't even make

an effort.

> I feel so torn as to what to do right now. I know I cannot send her any more

e-mails or leave her a voicemail speaking any form of reason or rational

thought. But do I just stop trying to communicate altogether or at least

continue to make it clear that I am not shutting her out, and am making an

effort?

>

>

> > >

> > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was not right with my

mother and feared that whatever she had was something I too might have. It just

always seemed to be so much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended " abruptly " with

almost the exact same script, and the relationships themselves were all full of

chaos and seemed like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to the point of

making up stories about alleged behavior that they really never exhibited.

> > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my fiance that I

was finally able to make the connection that while yes, most of my ex's had

their problems and weren't right for me, the real issue that was consistent in

each one of them and what was the real cause of them ending was something within

me. Without having a name for it or any real knowledge, I simply decided I

needed to take control of my life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I

just can't do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since April

2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to save the relationship.

Beyond that, he proposed this January and we will be married next May. However,

while I have been able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the underlying feelings

were still there. In fact, it was almost worse, because now when I felt them, I

knew they were wrong and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that

my fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any way. Also, my

fiance continues to feel anger from time to time with himself for not having

stood up to me properly and for not having been able to stand up more for

himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply do this on my own

anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist to try and figure things out.

> > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my mother, and

somehow after one session he seems to have figured out what it took me 30 years

to determine. He suggested I read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought

it might better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did so much

more than that...it was the most eye opening experience ever. Every page I

turned, I could relate to and I felt as if the author had somehow seen into my

life because they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly those

in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have BPD. The real issue I am

struggling with right now is trying to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior throughout my

life, including the current situation we are in right now. My uncertainty seems

to be because I am just starting to truly understand what has been and currently

is going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out where to go from

here. I am having a difficult time not just thinking that maybe it was always me

with BPD who caused my mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have ever met, and I

am incredibly lucky to have found him. While I firmly believe I could recover on

my own and figure out how to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a

lot easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read through the book

and feels much better now that he can understand what was going on during the

first year of our relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

could have done or said any differently, without somehow knowing what was going

on with me, to have helped things any sooner.

> > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my mother. She has felt

incredibly out of control with the wedding. No matter how many suggestions I

make for her to help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every idea

that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty comment, usually about how it

probably costs way too much, and what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm

such a princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has gone on for

30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my self esteem to nothing. Building

back up my self esteem is the most important component, it seems, to my own

recovery, and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating with

her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of her fits right now. She

would only speak to my fiance briefly because she felt that she could persuade

him to sympathize with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and she is so very

lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in which I have let her down (a

typical form of communication for her), explaining that we NEVER do anything

just the 2 of us (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point to

of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age she did so much more

for her mother because she really cared about her mother. Since this was before

reading the Eggshells book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to logically explain

that we have done things together just the 2 of us, and explain the ways I have

been including her in the wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted

towards her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my life right

now is also very different than where she was at. Since then (last Sunday) I

have received no communication from her. It appears to me that she is in a

panic, thinking I am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out first.

There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to me. I sent an e-mail to her

Friday just to wish her good luck at a craft show she was participating in and

to let her know that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

nothing.

> > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is trying to provoke

specific reactions from me, to successfully project her pain onto me. The fact

that it isn't working seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that

we need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries on how I will

allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not possible right now. Even if she

were willing to talk, I know that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not

be able to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable outbursts of anger

towards me affect me or she will see that. I need to build up my self esteem a

bit before I can handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to explain that I

need to take some time of my own before we get together, she will lash out even

more. It feels so hopeless right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really work out my own

BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try to remind myself that working on

myself is not just for me, but is also so that I can be in the right frame of

mind to help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my head

telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing everything I can right

now to try and help her...

> > >

> >

>

>

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> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential

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> <

[Guest guest]

If you do decide your own issues are " fleas " from growing up

with a parent with a mental illness, that doesn't mean you just

assign all the blame to her. You've made your own choices about

how to behave. You may have had a bad training on how to act,

but you don't have to follow her example, so having " fleas " is

more of an explanation for why you've made the choices you've

made, not a way to blame someone else rather than taking

resposibility. You sound to me like someone who is taking

responsibility for her own behavior. Don't let the fact that you

want to be responsible turn you away from the idea that you may

have learned bad behavior from her rather than being mentally

ill yourself.

For people with BPD, the silent treatment is usually a way of

manipulating people. She may want you to beg her to talk to you

with increasingly strident messages about how you care about

her. My recommendation is to continue reaching out to her

occasionally, but keep it low key and not too frequent. Once a

week might be a good choice. You should remember that when BPD

is involved, it is likely that nothing you do is going to be

right as far as she's concerned unless you do exactly what she

wants you to do. Doing exactly what she wants is not likely to

be healthy for you or your relationship with your fiance. No

amount of effort on your part will change the fact that she has

BPD.

At 10:38 AM 03/27/2012 kalosalethe wrote:

>Thank you so much to everyone who has responded to my

>message. I appreciate all of the feedback. While I do

>entertain the idea it would just be FLEAS, I just feel that my

>own outrageous behavior, particularly over the past 10 years or

>so, is a little more than that. It would certainly be great

>to just be able to assign all the blame to my mom, but I don't

>know if that is going to be the right thing to do.

>For now I am just trying to sort out the current situation of

>how to deal with this silent treatment she has imposed. This

>episode has been going on for over 2 weeks now, and I have had

>no communication of any kind from her in 9 days, despite my

>trying to reach out in the most neutral way possible. I don't

>know if I should even continue trying to reach out (with

>e-mails that simply say " Hi mom, just wanted to say I love you

>and hope you are doing ok. I hope to hear from you soon so

>that we can try to work something out " ), or if that may be

>encouraging her behavior? These silent treatments always seem

>to be a desperate attempt for control, and it always seems she

>is trying to evoke certain reactions from me. If, however, I

>do not continue reaching out, I already know how that will

>go. If and when I do talk to her (to have THE talk about

>setting limits), she will rail into me for how much I didn't

>care and didn't even make an effort.

>I feel so torn as to what to do right now. I know I cannot

>send her any more e-mails or leave her a voicemail speaking any

>form of reason or rational thought. But do I just stop trying

>to communicate altogether or at least continue to make it clear

>that I am not shutting her out, and am making an effort?

>

>

> > >

> > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was

> not right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed

> like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

> ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to

> the point of making up stories about alleged behavior that

> they really never exhibited.

> > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't

> right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one

> of them and what was the real cause of them ending was

> something within me. Without having a name for it or any real

> knowledge, I simply decided I needed to take control of my

> life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

> do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since

> April 2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to

> save the relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January

> and we will be married next May. However, while I have been

> able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

> that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the

> underlying feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost

> worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong

> and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to

> time with himself for not having stood up to me properly and

> for not having been able to stand up more for

> himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply

> do this on my own anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist

> to try and figure things out.

> > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my

> mother, and somehow after one session he seems to have figured

> out what it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I

> read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might

> better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did

> so much more than that...it was the most eye opening

> experience ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I

> felt as if the author had somehow seen into my life because

> they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly

> those in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have

> BPD. The real issue I am struggling with right now is trying

> to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

> week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have

> ever met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While

> I firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how

> to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot

> easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read

> through the book and feels much better now that he can

> understand what was going on during the first year of our

> relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

> could have done or said any differently, without somehow

> knowing what was going on with me, to have helped things any

> sooner.

> > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to

> help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

> idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty

> comment, usually about how it probably costs way too much, and

> what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a

> princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

> gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my

> self esteem to nothing. Building back up my self esteem is

> the most important component, it seems, to my own recovery,

> and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating

> with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of

> her fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly

> because she felt that she could persuade him to sympathize

> with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

> from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

> she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in

> which I have let her down (a typical form of communication for

> her), explaining that we NEVER do anything just the 2 of us

> (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point

> to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age

> she did so much more for her mother because she really cared

> about her mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells

> book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

> make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

> logically explain that we have done things together just the 2

> of us, and explain the ways I have been including her in the

> wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards

> her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my

> life right now is also very different than where she was

> at. Since then (last Sunday) I have received no communication

> from her. It appears to me that she is in a panic, thinking I

> am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out

> first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to

> me. I sent an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck

> at a craft show she was participating in and to let her know

> that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

> nothing.

> > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is

> trying to provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully

> project her pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working

> seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we

> need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries

> on how I will allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not

> possible right now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know

> that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be able

> to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable

> outbursts of anger towards me affect me or she will see

> that. I need to build up my self esteem a bit before I can

> handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

> contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to

> explain that I need to take some time of my own before we get

> together, she will lash out even more. It feels so hopeless

> right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really

> work out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try

> to remind myself that working on myself is not just for me,

> but is also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to

> help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my

> head telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> everything I can right now to try and help her...

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

> **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

>To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

>WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

>

>Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

>and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

>Groups Links

>

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Excellent point, thank you for making that distinction. I just have always been

completely confused and baffled by my mother's behavior. She never used to do

the silent treatment. Back about 8 years ago (when I was 22) I felt completely

incapable of handling the things she was doing. If I remember correctly, what

set me over the edge was her using the spare key I gave her for emergencies to

just let herself into my apartment, find things in it make herself upset about

and wrote me a 4 page letter all about how she thought I had some serious mental

problems because of my apartment being messy.

That, along with not being able to handle the obsessive calling and voicemail

messages led to me shutting her out (to the best of my ability

anyway...naturally she continued calling and would show up to my work in

hysterics begging me to talk to her. This lasted about a year until it was clear

it wasn't working in any way to address the real issues. I sat down finally and

wrote her a letter explaining how things were for me and why I was acting as I

did, while trying very hard not to just blame her for everything, but she took

it as me blaming her for everything anyway. From there on I just tried to do

whatever I could to appease her as much as I could so she wouldn't lash out at

me.

Only recently did I decide I really wanted to try and have a real relationship

with her. I started going out of my way to do things for her, to help her with

things, call her much more, but it is just never good enough. And now when she

gets upset, she acts differently than she always had before, because now she

gives the silent treatment. Perhaps because she sees it as a punishment and

wants to punish me? (during the strained year in which I was cutting her out of

my life, her hysterical voicemails always stated that she knew I was ignoring

her just to punish her because I know how upset it makes her). Or maybe because

she knows when we do finally sit down and talk I am not going to say the things

she wants me to, so she is holding off as long as possible? It may even just be

because she thinks if she withholds long enough I will cave in and beg for her

forgiveness for all the things she accuses me of. Or it might also be that she

is truly afraid that because of how I stand up for myself now that I am going to

shut her out of my life again, so she is trying to shut me out before I can do

that to her.

It is exhausting trying to figure out what is going on with her, and I feel so

helpless no matter what I do. No matter what I do she will find fault. I know

this now. I can never do enough to make her happy because she is incapable of

being happy. And as much as she has hurt me for so many years, it makes me feel

so sad to know that she is in so much pain and there is nothing I can do to make

it better.

> > > >

> > > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was

> > not right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> > something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> > much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> > " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> > relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed

> > like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

> > ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to

> > the point of making up stories about alleged behavior that

> > they really never exhibited.

> > > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> > fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> > while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't

> > right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one

> > of them and what was the real cause of them ending was

> > something within me. Without having a name for it or any real

> > knowledge, I simply decided I needed to take control of my

> > life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

> > do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since

> > April 2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to

> > save the relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January

> > and we will be married next May. However, while I have been

> > able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

> > that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the

> > underlying feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost

> > worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong

> > and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> > fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> > way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to

> > time with himself for not having stood up to me properly and

> > for not having been able to stand up more for

> > himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply

> > do this on my own anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist

> > to try and figure things out.

> > > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my

> > mother, and somehow after one session he seems to have figured

> > out what it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I

> > read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might

> > better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did

> > so much more than that...it was the most eye opening

> > experience ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I

> > felt as if the author had somehow seen into my life because

> > they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly

> > those in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have

> > BPD. The real issue I am struggling with right now is trying

> > to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> > throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> > right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> > starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> > going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> > where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> > thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> > mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

> > week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have

> > ever met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While

> > I firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how

> > to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot

> > easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read

> > through the book and feels much better now that he can

> > understand what was going on during the first year of our

> > relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

> > could have done or said any differently, without somehow

> > knowing what was going on with me, to have helped things any

> > sooner.

> > > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> > mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> > wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to

> > help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

> > idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty

> > comment, usually about how it probably costs way too much, and

> > what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a

> > princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

> > gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my

> > self esteem to nothing. Building back up my self esteem is

> > the most important component, it seems, to my own recovery,

> > and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating

> > with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of

> > her fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly

> > because she felt that she could persuade him to sympathize

> > with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

> > from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

> > she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in

> > which I have let her down (a typical form of communication for

> > her), explaining that we NEVER do anything just the 2 of us

> > (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point

> > to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age

> > she did so much more for her mother because she really cared

> > about her mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells

> > book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

> > make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

> > logically explain that we have done things together just the 2

> > of us, and explain the ways I have been including her in the

> > wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards

> > her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my

> > life right now is also very different than where she was

> > at. Since then (last Sunday) I have received no communication

> > from her. It appears to me that she is in a panic, thinking I

> > am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out

> > first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to

> > me. I sent an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck

> > at a craft show she was participating in and to let her know

> > that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

> > nothing.

> > > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is

> > trying to provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully

> > project her pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working

> > seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we

> > need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries

> > on how I will allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not

> > possible right now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know

> > that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be able

> > to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable

> > outbursts of anger towards me affect me or she will see

> > that. I need to build up my self esteem a bit before I can

> > handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

> > contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to

> > explain that I need to take some time of my own before we get

> > together, she will lash out even more. It feels so hopeless

> > right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really

> > work out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try

> > to remind myself that working on myself is not just for me,

> > but is also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to

> > help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my

> > head telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> > everything I can right now to try and help her...

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >

> > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> > @... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

> >

> >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

> >

> >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> >Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

If she's bpd, nothing's her fault, she cant change (unless she really wants

to) and you can't make her happy. I have done lots of things I regret that

were " borderline " . In your position I might look up " codependency " .

Best of luck to you,

Millicent

> **

>

>

> Excellent point, thank you for making that distinction. I just have always

> been completely confused and baffled by my mother's behavior. She never

> used to do the silent treatment. Back about 8 years ago (when I was 22) I

> felt completely incapable of handling the things she was doing. If I

> remember correctly, what set me over the edge was her using the spare key I

> gave her for emergencies to just let herself into my apartment, find things

> in it make herself upset about and wrote me a 4 page letter all about how

> she thought I had some serious mental problems because of my apartment

> being messy.

> That, along with not being able to handle the obsessive calling and

> voicemail messages led to me shutting her out (to the best of my ability

> anyway...naturally she continued calling and would show up to my work in

> hysterics begging me to talk to her. This lasted about a year until it was

> clear it wasn't working in any way to address the real issues. I sat down

> finally and wrote her a letter explaining how things were for me and why I

> was acting as I did, while trying very hard not to just blame her for

> everything, but she took it as me blaming her for everything anyway. From

> there on I just tried to do whatever I could to appease her as much as I

> could so she wouldn't lash out at me.

> Only recently did I decide I really wanted to try and have a real

> relationship with her. I started going out of my way to do things for her,

> to help her with things, call her much more, but it is just never good

> enough. And now when she gets upset, she acts differently than she always

> had before, because now she gives the silent treatment. Perhaps because she

> sees it as a punishment and wants to punish me? (during the strained year

> in which I was cutting her out of my life, her hysterical voicemails always

> stated that she knew I was ignoring her just to punish her because I know

> how upset it makes her). Or maybe because she knows when we do finally sit

> down and talk I am not going to say the things she wants me to, so she is

> holding off as long as possible? It may even just be because she thinks if

> she withholds long enough I will cave in and beg for her forgiveness for

> all the things she accuses me of. Or it might also be that she is truly

> afraid that because of how I stand up for myself now that I am going to

> shut her out of my life again, so she is trying to shut me out before I can

> do that to her.

> It is exhausting trying to figure out what is going on with her, and I

> feel so helpless no matter what I do. No matter what I do she will find

> fault. I know this now. I can never do enough to make her happy because she

> is incapable of being happy. And as much as she has hurt me for so many

> years, it makes me feel so sad to know that she is in so much pain and

> there is nothing I can do to make it better.

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was

> > > not right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> > > something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> > > much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> > > " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> > > relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed

> > > like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

> > > ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to

> > > the point of making up stories about alleged behavior that

> > > they really never exhibited.

> > > > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> > > fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> > > while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't

> > > right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one

> > > of them and what was the real cause of them ending was

> > > something within me. Without having a name for it or any real

> > > knowledge, I simply decided I needed to take control of my

> > > life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

> > > do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since

> > > April 2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to

> > > save the relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January

> > > and we will be married next May. However, while I have been

> > > able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

> > > that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the

> > > underlying feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost

> > > worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong

> > > and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> > > fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> > > way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to

> > > time with himself for not having stood up to me properly and

> > > for not having been able to stand up more for

> > > himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply

> > > do this on my own anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist

> > > to try and figure things out.

> > > > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my

> > > mother, and somehow after one session he seems to have figured

> > > out what it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I

> > > read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might

> > > better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did

> > > so much more than that...it was the most eye opening

> > > experience ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I

> > > felt as if the author had somehow seen into my life because

> > > they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly

> > > those in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have

> > > BPD. The real issue I am struggling with right now is trying

> > > to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> > > throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> > > right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> > > starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> > > going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> > > where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> > > thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> > > mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

> > > week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have

> > > ever met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While

> > > I firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how

> > > to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot

> > > easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read

> > > through the book and feels much better now that he can

> > > understand what was going on during the first year of our

> > > relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

> > > could have done or said any differently, without somehow

> > > knowing what was going on with me, to have helped things any

> > > sooner.

> > > > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> > > mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> > > wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to

> > > help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

> > > idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty

> > > comment, usually about how it probably costs way too much, and

> > > what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a

> > > princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

> > > gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my

> > > self esteem to nothing. Building back up my self esteem is

> > > the most important component, it seems, to my own recovery,

> > > and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating

> > > with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of

> > > her fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly

> > > because she felt that she could persuade him to sympathize

> > > with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

> > > from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

> > > she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in

> > > which I have let her down (a typical form of communication for

> > > her), explaining that we NEVER do anything just the 2 of us

> > > (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point

> > > to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age

> > > she did so much more for her mother because she really cared

> > > about her mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells

> > > book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

> > > make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

> > > logically explain that we have done things together just the 2

> > > of us, and explain the ways I have been including her in the

> > > wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards

> > > her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my

> > > life right now is also very different than where she was

> > > at. Since then (last Sunday) I have received no communication

> > > from her. It appears to me that she is in a panic, thinking I

> > > am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out

> > > first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to

> > > me. I sent an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck

> > > at a craft show she was participating in and to let her know

> > > that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

> > > nothing.

> > > > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is

> > > trying to provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully

> > > project her pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working

> > > seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we

> > > need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries

> > > on how I will allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not

> > > possible right now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know

> > > that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be able

> > > to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable

> > > outbursts of anger towards me affect me or she will see

> > > that. I need to build up my self esteem a bit before I can

> > > handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

> > > contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to

> > > explain that I need to take some time of my own before we get

> > > together, she will lash out even more. It feels so hopeless

> > > right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really

> > > work out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try

> > > to remind myself that working on myself is not just for me,

> > > but is also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to

> > > help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my

> > > head telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> > > everything I can right now to try and help her...

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >------------------------------------

> > >

> > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> > > @... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

> > >

> > >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> > >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

> > >

> > >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> > >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> > >Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What drove me into therapy initially was feeling that life was spiraling out of

control about the time my oldest child was 24 months old. My health was a wreck,

my mother was having another one of her crazy episodes, I was working full time,

in college part time and I had a also had a newborn.

My coping mechanisms at that point we almost non-existent. The way I reacted to

stress and fear was just the way my nada did. I am not proud of some of my

reactions. I was immature, I had little in the way of social skills. I read the

book " Coping with Difficult People " which helped a bit. So did therapy.

It was almost 15 years later that I found out my mom has BPD, and that my

pre-therapy behaviors were FLEAS. That doesn't mean I blame my mother for them.

It just means I had a choice to learn to manage myself differently, and I took

the path to cultivate healthier relationships.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was

> > > > not right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> > > > something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> > > > much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > > > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> > > > " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> > > > relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed

> > > > like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

> > > > ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to

> > > > the point of making up stories about alleged behavior that

> > > > they really never exhibited.

> > > > > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> > > > fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> > > > while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't

> > > > right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one

> > > > of them and what was the real cause of them ending was

> > > > something within me. Without having a name for it or any real

> > > > knowledge, I simply decided I needed to take control of my

> > > > life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

> > > > do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since

> > > > April 2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to

> > > > save the relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January

> > > > and we will be married next May. However, while I have been

> > > > able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

> > > > that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the

> > > > underlying feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost

> > > > worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong

> > > > and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> > > > fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> > > > way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to

> > > > time with himself for not having stood up to me properly and

> > > > for not having been able to stand up more for

> > > > himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply

> > > > do this on my own anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist

> > > > to try and figure things out.

> > > > > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my

> > > > mother, and somehow after one session he seems to have figured

> > > > out what it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I

> > > > read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might

> > > > better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did

> > > > so much more than that...it was the most eye opening

> > > > experience ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I

> > > > felt as if the author had somehow seen into my life because

> > > > they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly

> > > > those in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have

> > > > BPD. The real issue I am struggling with right now is trying

> > > > to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > > > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> > > > throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> > > > right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> > > > starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> > > > going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> > > > where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> > > > thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> > > > mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

> > > > week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > > > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have

> > > > ever met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While

> > > > I firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how

> > > > to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot

> > > > easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read

> > > > through the book and feels much better now that he can

> > > > understand what was going on during the first year of our

> > > > relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

> > > > could have done or said any differently, without somehow

> > > > knowing what was going on with me, to have helped things any

> > > > sooner.

> > > > > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> > > > mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> > > > wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to

> > > > help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

> > > > idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty

> > > > comment, usually about how it probably costs way too much, and

> > > > what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a

> > > > princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

> > > > gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my

> > > > self esteem to nothing. Building back up my self esteem is

> > > > the most important component, it seems, to my own recovery,

> > > > and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating

> > > > with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of

> > > > her fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly

> > > > because she felt that she could persuade him to sympathize

> > > > with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

> > > > from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

> > > > she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in

> > > > which I have let her down (a typical form of communication for

> > > > her), explaining that we NEVER do anything just the 2 of us

> > > > (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point

> > > > to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age

> > > > she did so much more for her mother because she really cared

> > > > about her mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells

> > > > book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

> > > > make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

> > > > logically explain that we have done things together just the 2

> > > > of us, and explain the ways I have been including her in the

> > > > wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards

> > > > her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my

> > > > life right now is also very different than where she was

> > > > at. Since then (last Sunday) I have received no communication

> > > > from her. It appears to me that she is in a panic, thinking I

> > > > am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out

> > > > first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to

> > > > me. I sent an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck

> > > > at a craft show she was participating in and to let her know

> > > > that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

> > > > nothing.

> > > > > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is

> > > > trying to provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully

> > > > project her pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working

> > > > seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we

> > > > need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries

> > > > on how I will allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not

> > > > possible right now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know

> > > > that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be able

> > > > to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable

> > > > outbursts of anger towards me affect me or she will see

> > > > that. I need to build up my self esteem a bit before I can

> > > > handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

> > > > contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to

> > > > explain that I need to take some time of my own before we get

> > > > together, she will lash out even more. It feels so hopeless

> > > > right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > > > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really

> > > > work out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try

> > > > to remind myself that working on myself is not just for me,

> > > > but is also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to

> > > > help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my

> > > > head telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> > > > everything I can right now to try and help her...

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> > > > @ DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

> >

> > > >

> > > >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> > > >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

> > > >

> > > >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> > > >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> > > >Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are likely an enmeshed child--you are 'hooked' in to your BPD mom, always

trying to give her what she needs. To keep the peace, to feel valuable as her

daughter.

The silent treatment works 2 ways--it explains FOR her that she is not happy

with you, since she likely cannot voice these things for herself. It also

creates a vacuum--which YOU want to fill by running after her (emails, phone

calls, etc.). Your reaction to her withdrawal *feeds* her, so she has no reason

to stop the pattern--she is getting her *fix* so why should she stop?

Part of getting " unenmeshed " is learning to just let it go. Why should you be

the only one trying to make a relationship work?

FYI--my mother's responses have changed somewhat over the years. When she really

gets angry enough to reject me as a human being, undeserving her care and

warmth, she gives me the Silent Treatment.

In years past she thought I was redeemable, so she would leave crazy voice mail

messages and emails. No more. Not only has she figured out that a record of her

acting crazy can/will be used against her. I also think as I have become

healthier emotionally and not open to her pleas, she gives me " Silent Treatment "

most of the time.

I am really not losing anything, for I never really had a mother to begin with.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello everyone. I have always known that something was

> > > not right with my mother and feared that whatever she had was

> > > something I too might have. It just always seemed to be so

> > > much more than normal parent/child difficulties.

> > > > > Every romantic relationship I have ever been in has ended

> > > " abruptly " with almost the exact same script, and the

> > > relationships themselves were all full of chaos and seemed

> > > like rollercoaster rides. Of course when these relationships

> > > ended, I always assigned the blame to my ex, sometimes even to

> > > the point of making up stories about alleged behavior that

> > > they really never exhibited.

> > > > > It wasn't until this same pattern repeated itself with my

> > > fiance that I was finally able to make the connection that

> > > while yes, most of my ex's had their problems and weren't

> > > right for me, the real issue that was consistent in each one

> > > of them and what was the real cause of them ending was

> > > something within me. Without having a name for it or any real

> > > knowledge, I simply decided I needed to take control of my

> > > life and fast...my fiance was giving me the 4th " I just can't

> > > do this anymore " speech when it finally, 100% hit home. Since

> > > April 2011 I have made drastic changes and we were able to

> > > save the relationship. Beyond that, he proposed this January

> > > and we will be married next May. However, while I have been

> > > able to completely subdue the rages and most of the behavior

> > > that was causing out major problems, I just still felt the

> > > underlying feelings were still there. In fact, it was almost

> > > worse, because now when I felt them, I knew they were wrong

> > > and shameful, and I would be sent into a panic feeling that my

> > > fiance must be noticing this and would surely abandon me any

> > > way. Also, my fiance continues to feel anger from time to

> > > time with himself for not having stood up to me properly and

> > > for not having been able to stand up more for

> > > himself. Because of all of this, I decided I couldn't simply

> > > do this on my own anymore and needed to go talk to a therapist

> > > to try and figure things out.

> > > > > While talking to the therapist, things came up about my

> > > mother, and somehow after one session he seems to have figured

> > > out what it took me 30 years to determine. He suggested I

> > > read " Stop Walking on Eggshells " because he thought it might

> > > better explain the dynamic between my mother and me. It did

> > > so much more than that...it was the most eye opening

> > > experience ever. Every page I turned, I could relate to and I

> > > felt as if the author had somehow seen into my life because

> > > they were describing so many situations that mirrored exactly

> > > those in my life. There is no doubt in my mind that I have

> > > BPD. The real issue I am struggling with right now is trying

> > > to determine if that is what my mother has.

> > > > > I am almost certain that she does, based on her behavior

> > > throughout my life, including the current situation we are in

> > > right now. My uncertainty seems to be because I am just

> > > starting to truly understand what has been and currently is

> > > going on with me, and trying to sort it out and figure out

> > > where to go from here. I am having a difficult time not just

> > > thinking that maybe it was always me with BPD who caused my

> > > mother to develop it as well. Since reading the book last

> > > week I have been all over the emotional spectrum.

> > > > > My fiance is the most loving and supportive person I have

> > > ever met, and I am incredibly lucky to have found him. While

> > > I firmly believe I could recover on my own and figure out how

> > > to handle my mother, it is certainly a whole heck of a lot

> > > easier having someone like him by my side. He has also read

> > > through the book and feels much better now that he can

> > > understand what was going on during the first year of our

> > > relationship and now that there really was nothing that he

> > > could have done or said any differently, without somehow

> > > knowing what was going on with me, to have helped things any

> > > sooner.

> > > > > The big challenge is figuring out how to cope with my

> > > mother. She has felt incredibly out of control with the

> > > wedding. No matter how many suggestions I make for her to

> > > help me with, she insists that she is being excluded. Every

> > > idea that I show her is met with a condescending, nasty

> > > comment, usually about how it probably costs way too much, and

> > > what I really need is a tiara to wear since I'm such a

> > > princess. I can see now that this behavior of hers, which has

> > > gone on for 30 years, coupled with my BPD, has worn down my

> > > self esteem to nothing. Building back up my self esteem is

> > > the most important component, it seems, to my own recovery,

> > > and right now I don't know how to do that while communicating

> > > with her. She has gone " on strike " because she is in one of

> > > her fits right now. She would only speak to my fiance briefly

> > > because she felt that she could persuade him to sympathize

> > > with her, and told him that she is being completely excluded

> > > from the wedding, that I have taken away everything nice and

> > > she is so very lonely. She e-mailed me detailing the ways in

> > > which I have let her down (a typical form of communication for

> > > her), explaining that we NEVER do anything just the 2 of us

> > > (despite there being at least 10 recent events I could point

> > > to of just us doing things) and to explain to me how at my age

> > > she did so much more for her mother because she really cared

> > > about her mother. Since this was before reading the Eggshells

> > > book, I didn't know that the e-mail I sent back would only

> > > make things worse. Without being mean or unkind, I tried to

> > > logically explain that we have done things together just the 2

> > > of us, and explain the ways I have been including her in the

> > > wedding, and how it is unfair to compare how she acted towards

> > > her mother to how I act towards her as where I am at in my

> > > life right now is also very different than where she was

> > > at. Since then (last Sunday) I have received no communication

> > > from her. It appears to me that she is in a panic, thinking I

> > > am going to shut her out, and so is shutting me out

> > > first. There is nothing that I can do to get her to talk to

> > > me. I sent an e-mail to her Friday just to wish her good luck

> > > at a craft show she was participating in and to let her know

> > > that I am still willing to talk to her, but still have heard

> > > nothing.

> > > > > If experience is any indicator, it seems that she is

> > > trying to provoke specific reactions from me, to successfully

> > > project her pain onto me. The fact that it isn't working

> > > seems to only be making things worse for her. I know that we

> > > need to have a talk and I need to impose limits and boundaries

> > > on how I will allow her to talk to me, but I feel that is not

> > > possible right now. Even if she were willing to talk, I know

> > > that talk is going to be very difficult. I will not be able

> > > to react emotionally, and I cannot let her inevitable

> > > outbursts of anger towards me affect me or she will see

> > > that. I need to build up my self esteem a bit before I can

> > > handle that. It almost terrifies me more thinking she will

> > > contact me any moment saying she's ready to talk. If I try to

> > > explain that I need to take some time of my own before we get

> > > together, she will lash out even more. It feels so hopeless

> > > right now, and I live in fear of her next move.

> > > > > Is it selfish for me to need to take some time to really

> > > work out my own BPD before trying to talk to her again? I try

> > > to remind myself that working on myself is not just for me,

> > > but is also so that I can be in the right frame of mind to

> > > help my relationship with her too, but there is a voice in my

> > > head telling me I am just being selfish and should be doing

> > > everything I can right now to try and help her...

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >------------------------------------

> > >

> > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write

> > > @ DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

> > >

> > >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

> > >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe

> > >

> > >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, "

> > >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo!

> > >Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>