Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I didn't pick up my phone etc. So I get silence for three days. I know that means something bad is coming. He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm sorry you didn't get a better reaction from your fada. I'm not surprised though. You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable and who lives in a private reality. Ending up with middle ground when dealing with someone who tends to see things as " all " or " nothing " , black or white, is difficult. That's just the way their brains work. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you are, when you ask for something that doesn't match what they want, it feels like an attack to them. I've had some success convincing my nada to be more reasonable by making her think that it is her choice to do some of the things I want. Sometimes I have a discussion with her where I lead her into coming to the conclusion that she wants to do what I want without ever telling her so directly. Sometimes I frame suggestions with " Wouldn't it be easier for you if... " and give her some reason why it would be better for her, not mentioning that it would be better for me. Maybe you could get your fada on a regular schedule of calling you a limited number of times each week or month by getting him to think that a schedule will ensure that he gets through to you without having to try repeatedly. At 08:07 AM 03/27/2012 newlife9871 wrote: >I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking >for compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of >it. And no, I was not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I >loved him any less when I didn't pick up my phone etc. > >So I get silence for three days. > >I know that means something bad is coming. > >He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm >getting more independent and will back off. And he takes it to >the EXTREME. He says we can just talk once a month or less, if >that's not " too inconvenient " and he'll just keep up with how >I'm doing by googling me. > >The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with > " you've made a terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to >come up and visit because we really miss you but you have more >important things to do so that's okay " or, " no wonder you're >so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off your bills >and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > >Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was >just asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the >extreme, making it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never >want to talk to him again. > >I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " >thing is all about. > > > >------------------------------------ > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write > @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . > >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo! >Groups Links > > > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Its all part of the manupilation-nada's & fada's have to be in control, the fact that you set the limits is what is torquing them. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: He emailed back  I'm sorry you didn't get a better reaction from your fada. I'm not surprised though. You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable and who lives in a private reality. Ending up with middle ground when dealing with someone who tends to see things as " all " or " nothing " , black or white, is difficult. That's just the way their brains work. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you are, when you ask for something that doesn't match what they want, it feels like an attack to them. I've had some success convincing my nada to be more reasonable by making her think that it is her choice to do some of the things I want. Sometimes I have a discussion with her where I lead her into coming to the conclusion that she wants to do what I want without ever telling her so directly. Sometimes I frame suggestions with " Wouldn't it be easier for you if... " and give her some reason why it would be better for her, not mentioning that it would be better for me. Maybe you could get your fada on a regular schedule of calling you a limited number of times each week or month by getting him to think that a schedule will ensure that he gets through to you without having to try repeatedly. At 08:07 AM 03/27/2012 newlife9871 wrote: >I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking >for compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of >it. And no, I was not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I >loved him any less when I didn't pick up my phone etc. > >So I get silence for three days. > >I know that means something bad is coming. > >He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm >getting more independent and will back off. And he takes it to >the EXTREME. He says we can just talk once a month or less, if >that's not " too inconvenient " and he'll just keep up with how >I'm doing by googling me. > >The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with > " you've made a terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to >come up and visit because we really miss you but you have more >important things to do so that's okay " or, " no wonder you're >so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off your bills >and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > >Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was >just asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the >extreme, making it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never >want to talk to him again. > >I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " >thing is all about. > > > >------------------------------------ > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write > @.... DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > >To unsub from this list, send a blank email to >WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . > >Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " >and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)Yahoo! >Groups Links > > > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 What a very FOGGY letter that was! (FOG = Fear, Obligation, Guilt.) Wow, your fada could give lectures on how to be passive-aggressive. Practically every sentence was dripping with sarcasm. Your very reasonable and gently-worded boundary was received as " narcissistic injury " by your fada. His seething sarcasm is masking his wounded ego. Those with bpd fear abandonment. However, you are not responsible to assuage your fada's unrealistic expectations of total, 24/7 accessibility. His feelings are his to carry and deal with, not yours. Your fada's letter was designed to blast you with guilt, so that you will abandon your desire to be an actual independent and self-actualized adult with her own life. Your fada's sarcasm is a more intellectual version of a three-year-old pitching a screaming tantrum because you've told him, " No, dear, you have to put your toys away now because its time for a bath. " Members here and at other Groups report that when firm but reasonable boundaries are set for the first time with the bpd/npd parent, they tend to escalate their FOGgy behaviors; its called an " extinction burst. " My own suggestion to try (which may or may not resonate with you) is to *completely ignore* the attempt to inject you with massive guilt, *completely ignore* the sarcasm and just respond AS THOUGH HE WAS BEING UNDERSTANDING AND REASONABLE (like a mentally healthy father): " Dear Dad, I SO appreciate that you understand my need for more space. You are such a wonderful father and I love you so much! Talk to you later! Love, me " After all, he IS agreeing to your boundaries (and then some). That's a good thing! Give your fada time to get used to this new, healthier, more normalized relationship with you. He may come around eventually, but if he doesn't I hope you do not succumb to a bombardment of FOG. I'll repeat: you are NOT responsible for your father's feelings. You were not put on this earth to remain a dependent, obedient, clinging child your whole life. You have the right to your own, independent adult life. If your parents are attempting to cripple you with guilt so that you will never individuate and have your own life, then they are not being loving at all, instead they are acting like spoiled, selfish children themselves. I hope you are also reading up about personality disorders, and educating yourself about creating and maintaining healthy boundaries. Reading that these behaviors are common for those with personality disorder and that you are not the cause of these behaviors and do not deserve to be treated this way, can help. -Annie > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I didn't pick up my phone etc. > > So I get silence for three days. > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is all about. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 What Annie said! My fada sent huge FOGgy emails, too...I think one was 11, 12 pages long? With the help of this Group, my now-husband, the in-laws, and friends, I was able to keep my boundaries. It's so painful and hard to not get sucked into the FOG, but the boundaries has helped me so much. Even though it seems like your fada is overreacting to the boundaries--he is in effect agreeing to it. And like Annie said--that's a GOOD thing! It'll help you heal and become stronger, as painful as it is now. (hugs) On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 10:25 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > What a very FOGGY letter that was! (FOG = Fear, Obligation, Guilt.) > > Wow, your fada could give lectures on how to be passive-aggressive. > Practically every sentence was dripping with sarcasm. > > Your very reasonable and gently-worded boundary was received as > " narcissistic injury " by your fada. His seething sarcasm is masking his > wounded ego. Those with bpd fear abandonment. However, you are not > responsible to assuage your fada's unrealistic expectations of total, 24/7 > accessibility. His feelings are his to carry and deal with, not yours. > > Your fada's letter was designed to blast you with guilt, so that you will > abandon your desire to be an actual independent and self-actualized adult > with her own life. Your fada's sarcasm is a more intellectual version of a > three-year-old pitching a screaming tantrum because you've told him, " No, > dear, you have to put your toys away now because its time for a bath. " > Members here and at other Groups report that when firm but reasonable > boundaries are set for the first time with the bpd/npd parent, they tend to > escalate their FOGgy behaviors; its called an " extinction burst. " > > My own suggestion to try (which may or may not resonate with you) is to > *completely ignore* the attempt to inject you with massive guilt, > *completely ignore* the sarcasm and just respond AS THOUGH HE WAS BEING > UNDERSTANDING AND REASONABLE (like a mentally healthy father): " Dear Dad, I > SO appreciate that you understand my need for more space. You are such a > wonderful father and I love you so much! Talk to you later! Love, me " > > After all, he IS agreeing to your boundaries (and then some). That's a > good thing! > > Give your fada time to get used to this new, healthier, more normalized > relationship with you. He may come around eventually, but if he doesn't I > hope you do not succumb to a bombardment of FOG. I'll repeat: you are NOT > responsible for your father's feelings. You were not put on this earth to > remain a dependent, obedient, clinging child your whole life. You have the > right to your own, independent adult life. If your parents are attempting > to cripple you with guilt so that you will never individuate and have your > own life, then they are not being loving at all, instead they are acting > like spoiled, selfish children themselves. > > I hope you are also reading up about personality disorders, and educating > yourself about creating and maintaining healthy boundaries. Reading that > these behaviors are common for those with personality disorder and that you > are not the cause of these behaviors and do not deserve to be treated this > way, can help. > > -Annie > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > all about. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 sigh. Thanks everyone. How sad, to want a relationship when it feels like fada is the one pulling away. Giving the extreme withdrawal message also tied in with the " but I love you! " . The FOG has been weighing down pretty heavy on me, good thing I'm seeing a T today. This one line in his email sums it all up: " I'm struggling to understand how you link a desire to be independent with distancing yourself from me. " I NEVER said I wanted to distance myself, in fact I think our relationship would be closer if we could both talk at a time that worked for BOTH of us, not always feeling like I need to return a call asap. THEN he compares me to other family members who call parents more often (I'm not sure if it's true) and says that he and my mom call their parents almost EVERY DAY (which wasn't true at least when I lived at home). The guilt...eek...is so...intense and I am so confused when deep down I did nothing wrong!!! > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's great that you have access to a therapist who can help you with the misplaced, inappropriate guilt you are carrying. Guilt is a difficult feeling to shed, even when its highly undeserved. Maybe it will help you if you can shift your perspective about this. Think about feeling pity for your fada instead of feeing guilt. You can feel sorry for him because he is so controlling and so demanding and so easily hurt and so emotionally needy... without feeling *responsible* for him feeling this way. You did nothing to cause him to be the way he is, nor can you cure him or change him; you do not have that power. Only your fada has the power to do something about changing *himself* and his perceptions, thoughts, and feelings, but he has to want to and to work damned hard at it for a long time. You can't do this for him. You can encourage him, the same way you can encourage and support a friend who is trying very hard to lose weight, but you can't lose the weigh *for* him or her, its simply not possible. I hope that helps. You have done nothing wrong or bad to feel guilty about. Nothing. No. Guilt. -Annie > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I like what said, so concise: Its all part of the manupilation- nada's & fada's have to be in control, the fact that you set the limits is what is torquing them. That's what it's all about for them, the control. They don't like us being in control, not even our own lives. And saying you'll decide how much contact you'll have with him just frosts his cookies. So then he pouts (you can almost see it in his email) and acts like the poor victim here. The hardest part is I think you're still hoping for a somewhat normal relationship with him, something like you see with other families. Unfortunately we live in a different world with our nadas and fadas. I love the whole FOG concept. I got hit with it on Monday. I visit my nada on Mon/Thurs to help her take care of bills, shopping, etc. Early Mon. she calls me and says she felt like she was dying, she was paralyzed and could hardly get out of bed. So. . . . if I had other things I would rather do, just go ahead, don't worry about coming over. I can laugh about it now but there have been other times she's done this and my gut tied up in knots. We told her that perhaps she might feel better if she got out for awhile, it was a beautiful sunny day. Would she like for us to come over? We put the decision back on her shoulders. Ha! > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 My Nada stopped in to my office for something and went nuts because there are all kinds of pictures of my son and SO but none of her. I didn't even argue but pointed out this was MY work space, she had absolutely no control over it hence no pictures. I still haven't heard from her, its been such a pleasant 2 weeks. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 6:37 PM Subject: Re: He emailed back  I like what said, so concise: Its all part of the manupilation- nada's & fada's have to be in control, the fact that you set the limits is what is torquing them. That's what it's all about for them, the control. They don't like us being in control, not even our own lives. And saying you'll decide how much contact you'll have with him just frosts his cookies. So then he pouts (you can almost see it in his email) and acts like the poor victim here. The hardest part is I think you're still hoping for a somewhat normal relationship with him, something like you see with other families. Unfortunately we live in a different world with our nadas and fadas. I love the whole FOG concept. I got hit with it on Monday. I visit my nada on Mon/Thurs to help her take care of bills, shopping, etc. Early Mon. she calls me and says she felt like she was dying, she was paralyzed and could hardly get out of bed. So. . . . if I had other things I would rather do, just go ahead, don't worry about coming over. I can laugh about it now but there have been other times she's done this and my gut tied up in knots. We told her that perhaps she might feel better if she got out for awhile, it was a beautiful sunny day. Would she like for us to come over? We put the decision back on her shoulders. Ha! > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Your fada is a lot like my nada. They use the guilt because they know it works, until they see that it stops working. Something I learned from being here on this board is that when you set a boundary, it really doesn't matter if your nada or fada (or whomever) doesn't understand why you're setting it. They don't need to get it. They just need to keep the boundary you've set. Your father will rant and be extremely sarcastic and make you feel like you've done something wrong for daring to set a limit. He's obviously taking it very personally. But you've done nothing wrong. For me, when my nada would mock the limit I'd set or make fun of me, I'd feel extremely ashamed and would relent. Once I forced myself to stick to the limit I'd set, regardless of her reaction, I realized she had no choice but to honor it if she wanted a relationship with me. It was not easy for me. I would get stomach aches when the phone would ring on a day when I didn't want to talk to her, my chest would constrict when i would go to visit her. But slowly, it got better. I saw a therapist and shared here and that helped. One of my provisions with nada was that if she started making sarcastic, snide comments, I wouldn't say anything. I would just leave and she wouldn't hear from me for a while. Good luck with your fada. Fiona > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I didn't pick up my phone etc. > > So I get silence for three days. > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is all about. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 " I'm struggling to understand how you link a desire to be independent with distancing yourself from me. " Newlife, your father's statement above is priceless. He sounds like he's really trying to get it but he won't allow himself to view you as an adult. His statement summarizes how I felt when my kids were 2 year olds and beginning to separate from me and would wrench themselves away from me when I tried to hold their hand; and again when my 13 year old rolls her eyes at me. As much as it hurts (and I truly believe the parent-child separation and individuation is painful for both parties, but a necessary hurt), it must take place. I keep reminding myself of that. Your fada is mixed up. My nada used to call me anywhere from 5 to 9 times a day. If I missed one of those calls, I didn't love her. I slowly brought it down to a few times a day, then once a day, and now to once a week. She did not like ANY of those changes; as Annie said on another post, it was like telling a child their play time was over. But you just do it. That's it. Just do it. Because you have to. It's funny, my mother and I (at least it **feels** this way to me) are more amicable and laugh more together now that we talk LESS. There is more to talk about, she wants to listen to how her grandkids are. Believe me, it's not hunky dory. I wouldn't spend a long day with her still or go back to talking every day. I don't think it will ever be great, but it's a situation she has had to accept. Your fada and my nada equate " closeness " with emotional suffocation. It's good that you're teaching your father how to treat you and what closeness really means. Stay strong!! Hugs, Fiona > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Reading all of the comments here is giving me the strength I need to finally have a talk with my nada about limits. I am still really afraid of the backlash and fear she may be able to manipulate me into relenting, but I know it needs to be done and hearing all of these stories of how you have all done it and as painful as it is, in the end it is completely worth it is really encouraging. Newlife, hopefully your fada will come to terms with the limits and boundaries you have set. It's really awful to be told such things when all you are really trying to do is make the relationship function better than it currently is. It seems if you stay strong and enforce the limits/boundaries you will start feeling much better. By the way...has anyone who fears the phone when their nada/fada calls ever really gotten over that?? I don't know if I will ever feel comfortable enough to have my cell phone ringer on. At least with it off I don't have to know when she is calling... > > > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Kalosalethe, I have spent most of the last four plus months with my ringer turned off. I won't even look at the stupid thing until I feel like it. It freaked out the rest of the family for a bit, but I just needed a break from it. Granted I wouldn't have needed AS MUCH of a break if it weren't for nada, but I had other reasons too and they got used to it. I turn it off when I go to bed at night and I don't look at it first thing when I get up, unless I want to. I have given myself permission to put myself and my needs first and I don't need to give any excuses for that. Please don't feel like you have to " get over " giving yourself the breathing space that you need. Be gentle and kind to yourself and look closely at the functions on your phone. My little phone has a call reject option and I can add any number to it I want. If that number calls and it is on the list then it goes straight to VM. I haven't resorted to adding nada's number to that just yet, but the options is there. It isn't a permanent list, I can add and remove numbers at will. Not all phones do this, but it is worth the time to explore your settings to see! ;-) C > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried to set a limit with fada. I did it very nicely, asking for > > > > > compromise and understanding he might feel hurt by all of it. And no, I was > > > > > not trying to disown him and it didn't mean I loved him any less when I > > > > > didn't pick up my phone etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I get silence for three days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that means something bad is coming. > > > > > > > > > > > > He emails back a 5-pg long thing, saying how he " gets " that I'm getting > > > > > more independent and will back off. And he takes it to the EXTREME. He says > > > > > we can just talk once a month or less, if that's not " too inconvenient " and > > > > > he'll just keep up with how I'm doing by googling me. > > > > > > > > > > > > The hard part was he mixed messages of " I love you " with " you've made a > > > > > terrible mistake. " Things like " We'd love to come up and visit because we > > > > > really miss you but you have more important things to do so that's okay " > > > > > or, " no wonder you're so INDEPENDENT now, we were the ones to help pay off > > > > > your bills and now you're financially stable so you no longer need us " > > > > > > > > > > > > Ugh. The thing is I still WANT a relationship with them. I was just > > > > > asking to make calls less frequent and he takes it to the extreme, making > > > > > it seem like I am " too busy " for him or never want to talk to him again. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hopeless, crushed, and again, confused by what this " love " thing is > > > > > all about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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