Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her about setting limits and boundaries. She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it could and should be more, should be different, should really be anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I often do because of how good she is at making the case that is is me who is responsible for everything. Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than the mode I need to be in for this talk. Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of others. I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then dismiss the things I'm saying. If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Why do you need to sit down and talk to her about boundaries at all? It rarely goes well with a nada. Many of us find it's better to simply begin enforcing your boundaries and let her get used to it. If you try and lay down the law, you are asking for a nada rage. She will never accept any boundary you set, so why not just set it without telling her and enforce it? Example: If you are only going to call her once a week, then only call her once a week. > > My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her about setting limits and boundaries. > She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it could and should be more, should be different, should really be anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I often do because of how good she is at making the case that is is me who is responsible for everything. > Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than the mode I need to be in for this talk. > Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of others. > I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then dismiss the things I'm saying. > If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 My feeling is that " a talk " this emotionally dangerous to you should not be done in person, but over the phone or through email. Then you are in a physically safe place at all times, and can turn away from the interaction easily if you need to. I wonder too, why must there be a talk - do you want input from her before you decide your boundaries or do you want her to accept/understand what you are trying to do? It is very unlikely that she will be happy or even just accepting with any change in the relationship which results in you " giving " her less. Eliza > > My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her about setting limits and boundaries. > She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it could and should be more, should be different, should really be anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I often do because of how good she is at making the case that is is me who is responsible for everything. > Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than the mode I need to be in for this talk. > Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of others. > I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then dismiss the things I'm saying. > If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 One question seems obvious to me here - why do you feel you have to sit down and talk to her specifically about setting boundaries? I think the reason you feel a need to do it is going to at least partially dictate how you should prepare for it. I have a hard time imagining it going well at all. Nadas just don't like being told what to do and telling her she can't treat you badly is almost certainly going to result in her going ballistic in one way or another. She may deny ever treating you the way you say you don't want to be treated, or she may try to justify treating you that way, or even both. She's not likely to actually listen and absorb what you say to her or to change her actions because you've talked to her. If you're lucky, she may start changing a little once you start enforcing the boundaries you set. Or she may not. Some nadas care more about misbehaving than they do about whatever consequences you impose for boundary-breaking. I find that it works better to just make there be consequences when my nada behaves inappropriately, kind of like training a dog. Telling the dog that chewing on shoes is unacceptable doesn't do much, but taking appropriate action when the dog grabs a shoe eventually teaches it to leave shoes alone. I don't believe my nada understands *why* she shouldn't do the things I find unacceptable. She does understand that I hang up the phone or leave ASAP whenever she does them though. I suggest that you start setting boundaries by not bothering to explain why you can't get together with her this weekend. Just tell her " I have other plans for this weekend " and stand firm. Exactly what your plans are is none of her business. Telling her is unlikely to be helpful, and you need to start asserting your control over your own life, so that's a good place to start. If she pitches a fit at that, my advice is to say something like " I'm sorry that upsets you. Perhaps we can talk about getting together later when you're feeling calmer. Bye. " Then hang up. When you do get together with her, I advise employing similar tactics. If she won't behave acceptably, leave. Make it clear to her that you are leaving because she isn't behaving well, then go. Don't let her impose her faulty perceptions of reality on you. Don't let her make you feel guilty for not letting her continue to mistreat you. And yes, finding neutral ground to have the discussion is important. If there are other people around, the one who is going to look bad if she starts carrying on is her, not you. A grown woman having a tantrum is not a pretty sight but if that's how she chooses to behave, let it be on her, not you. Are you sure she'll do that though? My nada almost never misbehaves in ways that other people will notice when she's around people she doesn't know. She's too concerned with what other people might think to do that. She's always sure that everyone in public is paying attention to things like how she's dressed and whether she has make-up on. At 05:59 PM 03/30/2012 kalosalethe wrote: >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her >about setting limits and boundaries. >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it >could and should be more, should be different, should really be >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is >is me who is responsible for everything. >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than >the mode I need to be in for this talk. >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of >others. >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then >dismiss the things I'm saying. >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thank you for all the responses. I guess I just thought there needed to be a talk about enforcing boundaries from how I read SWOE. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought the book was saying that you needed to have a talk with them about setting boundaries, and that yes, they would inevitably lash out, say ridiculous things, but then you were supposed to say things like " I'm sorry you feel that way, but I see things differently. " And that was where I thought I couldn't handle it... And ok, here's what just transpired. I e-mailed her back, saying this weekend was too full for us (I did say the plans...) and that next weekend would also be full, so maybe we could get together during this week or the weekend after next. Let me start by saying she is doing exactly what I knew she was going to...I knew she was going to start trying to communicate around this weekend (or even a couple days ago), because I know her and she wants to just be able to say all the things she wants to say, have me be sorry, sweep it all under the rug right in time for Easter. However, since I had not heard from her in 12 days and really did not know for sure when I would hear from her (though I had this feeling), our friends invited us over to their house for Easter and we accepted. And also, with everything going on, there is just no possible way I would be having Easter dinner with my nada this year. It is absolutely absurd, selfish and ridiculous that it would be expected at this point. So she of course responded back, asking if I could make the time before or after helping my friend move Sunday, since she would rather not wait until Easter weekend. Um...I wasn't going to do it Easter weekend, as my e-mail before that said. But like a classic BP, she doesn't ever really read what I write or actually listen to what I'm saying. So I responded, short and sweet, saying that this weekend is just not going to work and as I had said in my previous e-mail, Easter weekend is full for us too, which is why I was hoping she might have time one night this coming week or the weekend after Easter. And....at long last, she shows her true colors... " Since you have made plans for Easter that do not include me, perhaps our getting together to resolve things is not as important to you as I thought. You keep saying you love me, but yet you made Easter plans without me. Do you want me to believe you did not know this would hurt my feelings and break my heart, Meredith? If it is not important enough to make time to get together this weekend, then it is just not important enough. Please do not send another hate mail back. I have had enough of those to last a lifetime. Mom. " Wow. Not surprising at all, but still. Hate mail?? Seriously? And it's interesting how in all the e-mails between us over her communications strike, I always made a point to say how much I love her, that I wasn't trying to hurt her, etc. I ended every e-mail with " I love you. " Yet none of her e-mails have said she loves me. At best, she signs it with " love, mom. " But notice how this last e-mail, she even removed that. Because of course, her love is conditional. I agree with what was said below that e-mail or the phone is much better (for me, anyway) than in person. Not because I can say more or anything, but it's a lot easier to go scream or cry for a minute, then come and formulate a composed response. I think that this last e-mail just really makes it clear that you are both right and in person is not something that I can handle and is also not something that will do any good. The hardest part of all of this is my upcoming wedding. I feel this somehow all has to be resolved before then (May 4, 2013). Obviously, this will never be " resolved " and certainly not before then. But I feel so much pressure to at least make it bearable. She HAS to be there, right? How can I possibly explain to people why she isn't there? And of course, just the general sadness at the thought of possibly having my wedding day without my " mother. " As an only child who never knew her father, nada is the only " family " I have. > >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's > >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her > >about setting limits and boundaries. > >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her > >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able > >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my > >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never > >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it > >could and should be more, should be different, should really be > >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I > >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend > >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands > >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will > >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will > >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she > >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely > >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past > >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that > >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I > >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so > >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how > >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared > >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to > >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to > >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just > >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her > >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't > >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is > >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I > >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is > >is me who is responsible for everything. > >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do > >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from > >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than > >the mode I need to be in for this talk. > >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on > >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel > >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at > >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and > >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, > >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of > >others. > >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and > >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My > >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every > >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always > >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the > >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows > >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she > >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then > >dismiss the things I'm saying. > >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel > >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she > >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any > >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh sweetie. I have not advise for you, I am too new. All I can tell you is that I too am the only child of a NADA with no Dad and my heart goes out to you. I also have found it to be so very hard to have no other family than somebody who is not a good family member Huggggssss to you! M- From: WTOAdultChildren1 [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of kalosalethe Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:15 PM To: WTOAdultChildren1 Subject: Re: Preparing for " the talk " Thank you for all the responses. I guess I just thought there needed to be a talk about enforcing boundaries from how I read SWOE. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought the book was saying that you needed to have a talk with them about setting boundaries, and that yes, they would inevitably lash out, say ridiculous things, but then you were supposed to say things like " I'm sorry you feel that way, but I see things differently. " And that was where I thought I couldn't handle it... And ok, here's what just transpired. I e-mailed her back, saying this weekend was too full for us (I did say the plans...) and that next weekend would also be full, so maybe we could get together during this week or the weekend after next. Let me start by saying she is doing exactly what I knew she was going to...I knew she was going to start trying to communicate around this weekend (or even a couple days ago), because I know her and she wants to just be able to say all the things she wants to say, have me be sorry, sweep it all under the rug right in time for Easter. However, since I had not heard from her in 12 days and really did not know for sure when I would hear from her (though I had this feeling), our friends invited us over to their house for Easter and we accepted. And also, with everything going on, there is just no possible way I would be having Easter dinner with my nada this year. It is absolutely absurd, selfish and ridiculous that it would be expected at this point. So she of course responded back, asking if I could make the time before or after helping my friend move Sunday, since she would rather not wait until Easter weekend. Um...I wasn't going to do it Easter weekend, as my e-mail before that said. But like a classic BP, she doesn't ever really read what I write or actually listen to what I'm saying. So I responded, short and sweet, saying that this weekend is just not going to work and as I had said in my previous e-mail, Easter weekend is full for us too, which is why I was hoping she might have time one night this coming week or the weekend after Easter. And....at long last, she shows her true colors... " Since you have made plans for Easter that do not include me, perhaps our getting together to resolve things is not as important to you as I thought. You keep saying you love me, but yet you made Easter plans without me. Do you want me to believe you did not know this would hurt my feelings and break my heart, Meredith? If it is not important enough to make time to get together this weekend, then it is just not important enough. Please do not send another hate mail back. I have had enough of those to last a lifetime. Mom. " Wow. Not surprising at all, but still. Hate mail?? Seriously? And it's interesting how in all the e-mails between us over her communications strike, I always made a point to say how much I love her, that I wasn't trying to hurt her, etc. I ended every e-mail with " I love you. " Yet none of her e-mails have said she loves me. At best, she signs it with " love, mom. " But notice how this last e-mail, she even removed that. Because of course, her love is conditional. I agree with what was said below that e-mail or the phone is much better (for me, anyway) than in person. Not because I can say more or anything, but it's a lot easier to go scream or cry for a minute, then come and formulate a composed response. I think that this last e-mail just really makes it clear that you are both right and in person is not something that I can handle and is also not something that will do any good. The hardest part of all of this is my upcoming wedding. I feel this somehow all has to be resolved before then (May 4, 2013). Obviously, this will never be " resolved " and certainly not before then. But I feel so much pressure to at least make it bearable. She HAS to be there, right? How can I possibly explain to people why she isn't there? And of course, just the general sadness at the thought of possibly having my wedding day without my " mother. " As an only child who never knew her father, nada is the only " family " I have. > >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's > >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her > >about setting limits and boundaries. > >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her > >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able > >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my > >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never > >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it > >could and should be more, should be different, should really be > >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I > >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend > >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands > >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will > >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will > >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she > >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely > >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past > >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that > >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I > >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so > >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how > >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared > >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to > >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to > >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just > >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her > >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't > >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is > >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I > >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is > >is me who is responsible for everything. > >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do > >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from > >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than > >the mode I need to be in for this talk. > >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on > >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel > >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at > >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and > >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, > >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of > >others. > >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and > >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My > >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every > >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always > >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the > >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows > >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she > >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then > >dismiss the things I'm saying. > >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel > >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she > >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any > >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > > > -- > Katrina > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 You didn't create this problem and you can't solve it. I'm afraid you may find the need to grieve the mother you never had. I wouldn't sit down with her. I would unilaterally learn how to deal with the difficult hand you were dealt by having such a " mother " . It is very difficult not having parents. Many of us know how hard. On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Manning wrote: > ** > > > Oh sweetie. I have not advise for you, I am too new. > > All I can tell you is that I too am the only child of a NADA with no Dad > and > my heart goes out to you. > > I also have found it to be so very hard to have no other family than > somebody who is not a good family member > > Huggggssss to you! > > M- > > From: WTOAdultChildren1 > [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of kalosalethe > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:15 PM > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Subject: Re: Preparing for " the talk " > > > Thank you for all the responses. I guess I just thought there needed to be > a > talk about enforcing boundaries from how I read SWOE. Perhaps I read it > wrong, but I thought the book was saying that you needed to have a talk > with > them about setting boundaries, and that yes, they would inevitably lash > out, > say ridiculous things, but then you were supposed to say things like " I'm > sorry you feel that way, but I see things differently. " > And that was where I thought I couldn't handle it... > And ok, here's what just transpired. I e-mailed her back, saying this > weekend was too full for us (I did say the plans...) and that next weekend > would also be full, so maybe we could get together during this week or the > weekend after next. > Let me start by saying she is doing exactly what I knew she was going > to...I > knew she was going to start trying to communicate around this weekend (or > even a couple days ago), because I know her and she wants to just be able > to > say all the things she wants to say, have me be sorry, sweep it all under > the rug right in time for Easter. However, since I had not heard from her > in > 12 days and really did not know for sure when I would hear from her (though > I had this feeling), our friends invited us over to their house for Easter > and we accepted. And also, with everything going on, there is just no > possible way I would be having Easter dinner with my nada this year. It is > absolutely absurd, selfish and ridiculous that it would be expected at this > point. > So she of course responded back, asking if I could make the time before or > after helping my friend move Sunday, since she would rather not wait until > Easter weekend. Um...I wasn't going to do it Easter weekend, as my e-mail > before that said. But like a classic BP, she doesn't ever really read what > I > write or actually listen to what I'm saying. So I responded, short and > sweet, saying that this weekend is just not going to work and as I had said > in my previous e-mail, Easter weekend is full for us too, which is why I > was > hoping she might have time one night this coming week or the weekend after > Easter. > And....at long last, she shows her true colors... > " Since you have made plans for Easter that do not include me, perhaps our > getting together to resolve things is not as important to you as I thought. > You keep saying you love me, but yet you made Easter plans without me. Do > you want me to believe you did not know this would hurt my feelings and > break my heart, Meredith? > If it is not important enough to make time to get together this weekend, > then it is just not important enough. > Please do not send another hate mail back. I have had enough of those to > last a lifetime. Mom. " > Wow. Not surprising at all, but still. Hate mail?? Seriously? And it's > interesting how in all the e-mails between us over her communications > strike, I always made a point to say how much I love her, that I wasn't > trying to hurt her, etc. I ended every e-mail with " I love you. " Yet none > of > her e-mails have said she loves me. At best, she signs it with " love, mom. " > But notice how this last e-mail, she even removed that. Because of course, > her love is conditional. > I agree with what was said below that e-mail or the phone is much better > (for me, anyway) than in person. Not because I can say more or anything, > but > it's a lot easier to go scream or cry for a minute, then come and formulate > a composed response. > I think that this last e-mail just really makes it clear that you are both > right and in person is not something that I can handle and is also not > something that will do any good. > The hardest part of all of this is my upcoming wedding. I feel this somehow > all has to be resolved before then (May 4, 2013). Obviously, this will > never > be " resolved " and certainly not before then. But I feel so much pressure to > at least make it bearable. She HAS to be there, right? How can I possibly > explain to people why she isn't there? And of course, just the general > sadness at the thought of possibly having my wedding day without my > " mother. " As an only child who never knew her father, nada is the only > " family " I have. > > > > >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's > > >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her > > >about setting limits and boundaries. > > >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her > > >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able > > >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my > > >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never > > >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it > > >could and should be more, should be different, should really be > > >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I > > >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend > > >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands > > >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will > > >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will > > >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she > > >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely > > >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past > > >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that > > >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I > > >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > > >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so > > >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how > > >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared > > >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to > > >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to > > >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just > > >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her > > >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't > > >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is > > >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I > > >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is > > >is me who is responsible for everything. > > >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do > > >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from > > >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than > > >the mode I need to be in for this talk. > > >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > > > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on > > >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel > > >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at > > >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and > > >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, > > >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of > > >others. > > >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and > > >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My > > >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every > > >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always > > >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the > > >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows > > >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she > > >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then > > >dismiss the things I'm saying. > > >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel > > >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she > > >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any > > >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > -- > > Katrina > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hi I'm the only child of a BPD mum and no father in the picture. I grew up with only her and no other family around also. I rate myself as extremely strong and very able to shrug off guilt (however I do have my fleas, also) I find that the ONLY WAY to set boundaries is to use letters followed up by an email with the letter attached. This way i don't get caught up in her BPD behaviors while trying to sit down and talk with her. She is so manipulative (lieing, gas lighting, distorted behaviors.) There is no rational, fair, mutual meeting of the minds or hearts in sit down discussions. (I've actually taken to nanny cam'ing them because they are so ridiculous! as protection against future lawsuits/accusation of gparent's rights or unfit parents should she ever go that far) But back to my point...****it's totally ok to put it in writing and not have to do it in a face to face back-and-forth manner.*** My boundary setting was in a letter/email, and followed up again two weeks later with a 'remember what i said on this date' It works better than face to face cuz I get my point across without distortion or distraction, and I always used to get 'that's not what you said' or 'i don't remember it that way' or 'I never said that' or 'you misunderstood again.' UGGH. Anyhow, I like having records that I can bring up to have proof. =) Good luck, There have been several msgs here about weddings that have gone on. Planning mine was a nightmare to say the least. But the day itself turned out to be so great. Everyone shed tons of attention on her about how wonderful she had done in raising me and what a wonderful day she had given me, and blah blah blah. All of which i was juuuust fine with. =) it turned out great, I hope yours does too!!! > > >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's > > >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her > > >about setting limits and boundaries. > > >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her > > >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able > > >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my > > >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never > > >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it > > >could and should be more, should be different, should really be > > >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I > > >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend > > >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands > > >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will > > >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will > > >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she > > >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely > > >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past > > >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that > > >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I > > >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > > >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so > > >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how > > >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared > > >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to > > >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to > > >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just > > >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her > > >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't > > >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is > > >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I > > >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is > > >is me who is responsible for everything. > > >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do > > >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from > > >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than > > >the mode I need to be in for this talk. > > >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > > > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on > > >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel > > >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at > > >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and > > >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, > > >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of > > >others. > > >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and > > >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My > > >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every > > >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always > > >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the > > >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows > > >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she > > >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then > > >dismiss the things I'm saying. > > >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel > > >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she > > >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any > > >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > -- > > Katrina > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Welcome to the Group O. Thanks for sharing what works for you; having all correspondence in writing can be a good way to document specifics if your bpd parents are lawsuit-happy, and some are. You have a good handle on the whole " guilt " thing, which is wonderful. FOG, or Fear, Obligation and Guilt, are huge obstacles for a lot of adult kids of bpd parents to overcome so that reasonable boundaries can be set and maintained. Truly, its all about finding out what works for each of us, as individuals. We each have our own unique circumstances with our bpd parent: unique power dynamics with the pd parent, certain patterns of ingrained behaviors and responses of theirs and of ours that we need to gain awareness of, and varying degrees of damage and dysfunctional programming that we absorbed during our formative years, etc., so, we are each going to arrive at individual solutions that work best for us. Having so many KOs here sharing what is working or isn't working for us is in my opinion invaluable: beyond price. Reading about how other KOs have managed to create a tolerable or manageable relationship with a pd parent gives us new ideas to try, if we feel it might work for us. Sharing techniques, sharing actual experiences, sharing good books about pds and boundary-setting, its all just so valuable. And its also beyond price to realize that whatever you choose, whatever works best for you, is OK. There are NO JUDGMENTS here regarding a KO's decision to remain in full contact, or the decision to establish Limited Contact with boundaries, or the decision to go No Contact either temporarily or permanently. Some parents with bpd are only very mildly affected by it or are sub-clinical bpd, and are more amenable to being reasoned with, while other parents with bpd are severely disturbed and dangerous to themselves and/or to others. The more severely bpd parents written about here have engaged in such things as violent behaviors, suicidal behaviors or threats, attempts to totally dominate/exploit their adult child, or inflict real damage to their adult child out of pure malice. Some bpd/Cluster B parents maliciously attempt accusations of child abuse, call their adult child's other relatives, friends or place of business in order to smear their reputation, attempt to bring lawsuits for elder abuse or to gain " grandparents rights " , engage in stalking, harassment, vandalism, try to take their grandchildren from school without the parent's knowledge, attempt to usurp parental authority RE the grandkids or buy their loyalty (corruption), some even attempt identity theft, etc. Or worse. An earlier member or two shared that their bpd parent had on more than one occasion actually shot a gun at them or attempted to kill them in other ways. So, each of us is searching for our own path toward peace and healing, and this is about the best place there is to receive emotional support and validation and some camaraderie during the journey. As Doug says, " may we all heal. " -Annie > > > >My nada has ended her communications strike, so now it's > > > >getting real. I am going to have to sit down and talk to her > > > >about setting limits and boundaries. > > > >She of course e-mailed me at 5pm today, asking me to let her > > > >know if I want to sit down tomorrow or Sunday. Not if I'm able > > > >to, since she always assumes that I have nothing but time on my > > > >hands (the basis for almost all of her fits - she is never > > > >happy with how much time I devote to her, insisting that it > > > >could and should be more, should be different, should really be > > > >anything other than how it is). I have to tell her that I > > > >can't, as I just volunteered today at work to help a friend > > > >move Sunday, so now I have to run all my grocery errands > > > >Saturday and do my work I had to bring home. I'm sure she will > > > >think I'm making these things up, as she often does. She will > > > >say that I am now the one dragging it out, even though she > > > >hasn't communicated in any way in 2 weeks. I feel completely > > > >terrified and panicked. I have felt so stressed these past > > > >couple weeks and my stomach has been in one huge knot that > > > >keeps hurting more every day. She scares me so much and I > > > >don't know how I am going to have this talk with her. > > > >I have gone over SWOE several times but I still feel so > > > >unprepared! Knowing my mother, she will have an idea of how > > > >this conversation will go, and she will have already prepared > > > >and will start the conversation as if it is she who needs to > > > >stop being treated poorly by me, and she is not going to > > > >tolerate certain behaviors (behaviors she perceives to be just > > > >me being awful, but really they are knee jerk reactions to her > > > >snarky, condescending tone of voice and comments). I don't > > > >know how I will react to this. I fear I will think she is > > > >right and start doubting my own perceptions of things, as I > > > >often do because of how good she is at making the case that is > > > >is me who is responsible for everything. > > > >Really though, I have no idea what she is going to say. I do > > > >know that she will have a stiff, cold, irritated demeanor from > > > >the get go, which is going to put me in attack mode rather than > > > >the mode I need to be in for this talk. > > > >Does anyone have any advice for how they handled the first > > > > " setting limits " talk? I also wish we could have the talk on > > > >neutral ground. At her apartment she is going to feel > > > >completely in control on her home turf, but it couldn't be at > > > >my apartment or she would be even more defensive than usual and > > > >would say I am attacking her. But it can't be in public, > > > >because I do not want to be humiliated by her in front of > > > >others. > > > >I don't think I will ever feel prepared or ready for this, and > > > >will just have to go into it trying to do the best I can. My > > > >biggest fear is that she will have a snide response to every > > > >single thing I say (which she probably will, since she always > > > >does), and she will undermine everything I'm saying to the > > > >point that I don't believe in it anymore. And she knows > > > >exactly which buttons to push too to get the reactions she > > > >wants out of me so that I am reduced down to her level and then > > > >dismiss the things I'm saying. > > > >If only I wasn't so terrified of her, maybe it wouldn't feel > > > >like someone is stabbing me in the stomach right now. But she > > > >does terrify me, and I don't know how to do this. Any > > > >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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