Wedding Drama! continued...

[Guest guest]

Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

Chris

[Guest guest]

This is your wedding, not your mother's. More than that, weddings should be more

about the bride's wishes than her MIL's.

Sounds like you and your fiancee have *really* good reasons for planning things

the way you have. It sounds fair and reasonable not to have those dances

announced. If your mother is not content with an unannounced dance with you,

that's her problem. You can suggest she find herself a good T to discuss it with

but you are not going to talk about it again.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

PS, It sounds like she is giving you the silent treatment right now?

Don't reward her for that. She wants you to feel guilty and give in to do things

her way. Come crawling back apologizing for being so selfish and inconsiderate,

etc.

Definitely, don't cave in. You're going to be married to your wife, anyway, not

your mother--so if it comes down to choosing between the two of them, do things

your fiancee's way!

If she is still refusing to talk to you by the time your wedding comes around,

I'd consider it a blessing you don't have to deal with The Queen's dark cloud on

your happy day. We'd all rather have a mother who could be glad for us and help

make our weddings special. But that's not what we got.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

What's proper is for her to stop making demands and for you and

your bride to have the wedding you want. Mother-in-laws don't

get to overrule brides nor do mothers get to overrule grooms

where weddings are concerned. Don't give in to her on this.

Unless she's paying for the wedding, she gets no say at all. If

she decides to talk to you again, my advice is to tell her

you've made your decisions and they aren't up for disussion. You

can't win if you start discussing it with her. She's not going

to listen to reason or care why you've made the choices you've

made. She's like a toddler who has been told " no " . If she

insists on continuing to try to discuss it, end your

conversation with her. If she doesn't decide to talk to you

again before the wedding, that's her loss, not yours.

At 12:11 AM 04/01/2012 psy_0831 wrote:

>Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up

>at a get together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone

>call by her the day after (last Sunday). The blow-up involved

>our wedding. One issue with it involved the issue of

>father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here

>is the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship

>with her father and he does not dance. She does not want to

>dance with her father and most likely he would refuse to dance

>anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have an

>anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still

>save my mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment

>is not special enough for her and that she is entitled to this

>announcement by the DJ and the attention being on us (her). We

>felt it would be bad etiquette to have one announced dance

>without the other especially with her father in

>attendance. While both my fiance and her dad do not want their

>dance, we feel it would still embarrass them that it is not

>being done, with him being there. My fiance feels that even

>though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw

>this attention to her and him over this, by having the

>Mother-Son dance announced. Again I would still dance with

>her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to control things

>and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

>already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper

>here? Thanks

>

>Chris

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

The fight continued tonight via text message. She insists on me not being able

to compromise, with her now saying that she will have no part of a unity candle

ceremony. It seems to me that she is using the term compromise pretty loosely,

as since I am " taking something away from her, " she will now take away from us.

She is saying I have no loyalty to family and that I have made a new family with

my fiance, who is the only person according to her that I care about. Last

Sunday, I had hung up on her after her attacking our decisions after I told her

I was not up for any arguments, being sick, later that night with a very high

fever. In a very pot/kettle moment, she tonight attacked me for not caring to

see how she was during our period of not talking. She ALWAYS has some ailment

that is affecting her, that she will become vengeful on whoever does not check

in with her. She is also claiming that all this is coming directly from my

fiance when we have made all these decisions on the wedding together. I through

her a bone tonight in saying that she may pick out the song we would dance to

(which would still be unannounced) and she stated she does not care about that.

It very much appears to me that she is about the spotlight, and not the actual

act of dancing with me at the wedding. She wants what she sees is her moment.

Another part of it that bothers her is that it not being announced will allow

others to dance at the same time as us, which is unacceptable to her. To end the

texting from her she said " Leave your family behind. Goodbye. "

I don't see much I can do in this situation. I feel what we are doing is being

fair to everyone, since even though my fiance has a bad relationship with her

father, we do not want to call attention to it and embarrass him. She is very

good natured that way. Thoughts?

>

> Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

My bpd mom/nada ended up un-inviting herself from her grandson's overseas

wedding in a fit of narcissistic pique, after lobbing the most hurtful and

untrue accusation at Sister, her son, and me that she had ever lobbed before,

causing us to go No Contact with her for the first time... and my Sister

quickly (eagerly) took our mother up on her decision to not attend.

Within minutes Sister had cancelled mom's plane ticket and had given mom her

entire ticket price back (Sister ate all the penalties/fees added for canceling

the flight.) Of course, nada was astonished that her ugly words had immediate

consequences, and denied ever having said she had decided not to attend. And

she denied having said the truly horrific thing that made us all go No Contact

with her. Pretty typical for my nada.

Sister and I flew to her son's wedding by ourselves, and we had a truly

delightful trip.

There's something about weddings, births, graduations, and funerals that seem to

bring out the very, very worst in a nada/a mother with bpd. This hideous

behavior is due to pure, undiluted narcissism, in my opinion, and the bpd mom

will resort to emotional blackmail and bullying tactics and screaming rages and

hysterical sobbing suicide threats to draw attention to herself, make her look

like a victim, and force her adult child's compliance out of Fear, Obligation,

and Guilt. (and never mind that the FOG is entirely misplaced, undeserved, and

inappropriate, its still powerful.)

My advice: give your bpd mom one more chance to behave like a rational,

reasonable adult, and if she refuses, then remember:

It's OK to say very calmly and politely:

" I believe I've already answered that question, mom. "

" I've already decided that this is how we're going to do that part of the

ceremony/after party; its not up for discussion. "

And the piece de resistance:

" Truly, I understand if this will make you too upset to attend my wedding,

mother. I understand, and I'll miss you. "

-Annie

> >

> > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wish I had had the guts to do this the first time.  This time around I " m not

giving in and she's still pulling the crap. And when you remind them of what

they said you get the immediate denial.  She was really pissed that we happened

to have it on tape this time, so there was no denying it.    If you dont'

stop it now, it will never end.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:10 PM

Subject: Re: Wedding Drama! continued...

 

My bpd mom/nada ended up un-inviting herself from her grandson's overseas

wedding in a fit of narcissistic pique, after lobbing the most hurtful and

untrue accusation at Sister, her son, and me that she had ever lobbed before,

causing us to go No Contact with her for the first time... and my Sister

quickly (eagerly) took our mother up on her decision to not attend.

Within minutes Sister had cancelled mom's plane ticket and had given mom her

entire ticket price back (Sister ate all the penalties/fees added for canceling

the flight.) Of course, nada was astonished that her ugly words had immediate

consequences, and denied ever having said she had decided not to attend. And

she denied having said the truly horrific thing that made us all go No Contact

with her. Pretty typical for my nada.

Sister and I flew to her son's wedding by ourselves, and we had a truly

delightful trip.

There's something about weddings, births, graduations, and funerals that seem to

bring out the very, very worst in a nada/a mother with bpd. This hideous

behavior is due to pure, undiluted narcissism, in my opinion, and the bpd mom

will resort to emotional blackmail and bullying tactics and screaming rages and

hysterical sobbing suicide threats to draw attention to herself, make her look

like a victim, and force her adult child's compliance out of Fear, Obligation,

and Guilt. (and never mind that the FOG is entirely misplaced, undeserved, and

inappropriate, its still powerful.)

My advice: give your bpd mom one more chance to behave like a rational,

reasonable adult, and if she refuses, then remember:

It's OK to say very calmly and politely:

" I believe I've already answered that question, mom. "

" I've already decided that this is how we're going to do that part of the

ceremony/after party; its not up for discussion. "

And the piece de resistance:

" Truly, I understand if this will make you too upset to attend my wedding,

mother. I understand, and I'll miss you. "

-Annie

> >

> > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do

not want their dance, we feel it would still embarrass them that it is not

being done, with him being there. My fiance feels that even though their

relationship is strained she does not want to draw this attention to her and him

over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced. Again I would still dance

with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to control things and we

don't want to start caving into her demands when I have already drawn a line in

the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your mother's behavior is par-for-the-course when it comes to BPD parents and

weddings.

They can't stand to lose control, and usually project that onto their child's

spouse ( " She's controlling you! " ). For you, they reserve their projection of

selfishness and inability to care about anyone else. You are getting

married--which in the BPD mind constitutes abandonment, and causes all kinds of

dysregulation. Don't be surprised if she goes so far as to check herself into

the hospital on your wedding day just to see if you'll pay attention and come

running to her side. It has been known to happen.

Your mother is making lots of accusations. You might try a technique like S.E.T.

to acknowledge what she is feeling while making it clear it is not acceptable to

you. " If I am understanding you correctly, my fiancee is controlling everything

and I am being selfish. I disagree, and I will not listen to you say things like

that to me any more. I am finished discussing wedding plans with you. We would

love for you to participate the way it is currently planned, but if you feel

that is too difficult, we will understand if you need to stay home. " And then

HANG UP or DO NOT RESPOND when she continues.

Above all else, please remember that your mother's behavior is NOT your fault.

It is her choice how she deals with her feelings of being overwhelmed or

abandoned. She could seek professional help, but instead she chooses to make a

scene and lash out at her child. While we all wish we had parents who could

behave themselves and just be happy for us for 5 minutes, sometimes they just

refuse. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the way you are doing

things or who you are as a person. Let her own her embarrassing behavior without

taking on any shame about it.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

At this point I have contacted my dad, who when I had emailed him was

encouraging my fiance to dance with her abusive father. I explained things to

him, that her doing that is not an option with their relationship. At this

point he does not want to be involved. We usually meet up for holidays, Easter

being one of them, and he suggested that if my mother and I can not make up that

I should not meet up with them when they meet up with my sister. He has managed

to stay with her and recognizes that he has to put up with her on a daily basis,

so he just wants peace to be made.

Another point on the wedding that my mother brought up is that my sister is

offended that we did not include her in the wedding party. Our wedding party is

only a maid of honor and a best man. I called her up to speak to her and yes

she actually is upset and stated that we chose to have it small and if we wanted

we could of had it large enough to include her as well. She did have me in hers

in October. I was like 5th in line on the grooms side (however she claims they

didn't order the groomsmen). My sister has also taken my mother's side in the

mother-son dance situation.

Point is my fiance and I are very alone here and do not have the support I would

have hoped to have gotten from the rest of my family. I feel for her desires

she manages to turn people against us. I could care less about seeing my

mother, but it is my father and sister I feel cut off from with this Easter

being a prime example. This is the first time I am purposely being cut out of a

family gathering. It is as if I am the naughty one. What is the best way to

cope?

> >

> > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This sounds awful and I wish I could help more. Here's an article about

" peacemakers "

http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/search?q=peacemakers

Maybe it'll ring a bell with you when you feel bad about being alienated

from your relatives.

> **

>

>

> At this point I have contacted my dad, who when I had emailed him was

> encouraging my fiance to dance with her abusive father. I explained things

> to him, that her doing that is not an option with their relationship. At

> this point he does not want to be involved. We usually meet up for

> holidays, Easter being one of them, and he suggested that if my mother and

> I can not make up that I should not meet up with them when they meet up

> with my sister. He has managed to stay with her and recognizes that he has

> to put up with her on a daily basis, so he just wants peace to be made.

>

> Another point on the wedding that my mother brought up is that my sister

> is offended that we did not include her in the wedding party. Our wedding

> party is only a maid of honor and a best man. I called her up to speak to

> her and yes she actually is upset and stated that we chose to have it small

> and if we wanted we could of had it large enough to include her as well.

> She did have me in hers in October. I was like 5th in line on the grooms

> side (however she claims they didn't order the groomsmen). My sister has

> also taken my mother's side in the mother-son dance situation.

>

> Point is my fiance and I are very alone here and do not have the support I

> would have hoped to have gotten from the rest of my family. I feel for her

> desires she manages to turn people against us. I could care less about

> seeing my mother, but it is my father and sister I feel cut off from with

> this Easter being a prime example. This is the first time I am purposely

> being cut out of a family gathering. It is as if I am the naughty one. What

> is the best way to cope?

>

>

> > >

> > > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a

> get together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the

> day after (last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with

> it involved the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being

> done. Here is the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship

> with her father and he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her

> father and most likely he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we

> also did not want to have an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated

> that I will still save my mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the

> moment is not special enough for her and that she is entitled to this

> announcement by the DJ and the attention being on us (her). We felt it

> would be bad etiquette to have one announced dance without the other

> especially with her father in attendance. While both my fiance and her dad

> do not want their dance, we feel it would still embarrass them that it is

> not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels that even though

> their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this attention to

> her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced. Again I

> would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

> control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I

> have already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here?

> Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Am I the only one who thinks this is total crap? why do these things even matter

to Nadas? or anyone else? there are so many factors in planning a wedding. none

of your decisions are personal except your fiancee wanting little to do with her

abusive dad, and that seems so much more important. it is HER wedding, and she

can't be comfortable? happy? Nadas are really good at being martyrs/victims.

people buy it hook line and sinker. it is hurtful how little support you are

getting that is NOT what loving families do. I think your nada and sister

honestly do not deserve their way on this especially now. do it your way and let

them cry. they already made a mountain out of a mole hill. you and your fiancee

should get to make those kinds of decisions.

Meikjn

> > >

> > > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ok.

So your mother is upset.

Your sister is upset.

Your father not only goes behind your back to pressure your fiancee directly,

now he is threatening to punish you for not obeying his (your mother's) wishes

by telling you you won't be welcome at Easter if you don't give in.

Your whole family is one big manipulative mess. And not a lick of that is your

fault.

It's not fun having a family that is too wrapped up in their own needs to give a

crap about yours. How do you cope with it? Well, reaching out for support helps,

both here and with a professional T. Sometimes reducing or eliminating contact

(even temporarily) also helps. Reading about boundaries will probably be very

helpful for you.

It might not be the easiest thing, but my advice is just to let them sulk and

pout and throw their little tantrum. If they want to be miserable, that's up to

them. Your job is to take care of your fiancee and build a life together with

her. This wedding and the choices surrounding it are up to her and you--no one

else.

Any chance your father or sister has NPD? Maybe it's just fleas.

Sveta

[Guest guest]

I think they need their tantrums to be addressed like those of a 5 year old. It

did work with my BPD MIL, she did not get what she wanted. Giving in to their

tantrums proves them that you are their little B*tch. I am sorry to say it this

way, but in their eyes that is how they see it.

Get ready to see the worst selfish behavior with the wedding. Ignore it and

enjoy YOUR moment with you fiancee, do not dwell on why your family is like

this. After the wedding they will go back to normal, right now they feel

threatened by you having the center stage and they will claim it. Again

childish, immature behavior. Like svaktshka said, it is their misery, not yours.

MY MIL tried to ruin my wedding. The most selfish behavior I have ever seen in

my life. She wore white, said her family was going to ruin the wedding and the

night before the wedding she went to my husband to say the nastiest things about

me, my husband started telling me about it but did not tell me a lot of things

which lead to an argument the night before our wedding, it is not worth it! She

was surprised I was wearing a wedding gown( to then realize she wanted to be the

ONLY ONE wearing white ). That week her mother had a stent operation and she

refused to go see her because she had a hair appointment. In 3 weeks she did not

even go see her once!

I ignored all of her behavior, she did not get a reaction, neither positive or

negative. Which she hated and lead her to do worse things. Still, I did not say

anything and ignored her. She hated it but I did not say anything to not give

her " material " to make up a story to play victim to her husband. It is hard, but

the results are better in the long run. I just ignore everything as soon as she

gets nasty, I reward good behavior with positive attention, bad behavior, I just

turn my back. Remember NO REACTION at all!

>

> Ok.

>

> So your mother is upset.

> Your sister is upset.

> Your father not only goes behind your back to pressure your fiancee directly,

now he is threatening to punish you for not obeying his (your mother's) wishes

by telling you you won't be welcome at Easter if you don't give in.

>

> Your whole family is one big manipulative mess. And not a lick of that is your

fault.

>

> It's not fun having a family that is too wrapped up in their own needs to give

a crap about yours. How do you cope with it? Well, reaching out for support

helps, both here and with a professional T. Sometimes reducing or eliminating

contact (even temporarily) also helps. Reading about boundaries will probably be

very helpful for you.

>

> It might not be the easiest thing, but my advice is just to let them sulk and

pout and throw their little tantrum. If they want to be miserable, that's up to

them. Your job is to take care of your fiancee and build a life together with

her. This wedding and the choices surrounding it are up to her and you--no one

else.

>

> Any chance your father or sister has NPD? Maybe it's just fleas.

>

> Sveta

>

[Guest guest]

Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the family. I tried

writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but she responded that

she did not want to see me if I don't change our minds about the dance. This

continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on the phone and

emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics that I said to them. She

also attacked my fiance for not opening up more to my family and said that she

comes off as a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is terrified

of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating his mother

like this and that he would readily dance with his mother. Between us, my mom

does not come off as and it was kind of humorous her comparing herself to

her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning which brought up

how she shared some history of abuse like my fiance and condemned my fiance's

mother for just standing by. My mom however knows very little of the actual

situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am ashamed of

for doing when I was growing up and how she is the better person for not saying

way back then that she'd remember what I did when it comes to my wedding. Which

by saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that she knows that

the threat of not spending Easter with them is killing me and has me upset. In

reality I groan about it when these family events come up because of her drama.

The only thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have turned against

me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her side in the email. The whole

email was very vicious and for some reason the subject of it was titled " Amen. "

That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of that I did not

contact her once since the initial asking of us being civil come Easter. It was

very hard to ignore all of that, but I have heard nothing from her since that

email. I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a bpd

mother to try to work things out.

What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term " nada " stand for

and where does it come from?

Thanks.

Chris

> > >

> > > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

" Nada " is short for " not a mom " , meaning " mother with bpd. "

Sometimes when we choose to set boundaries with a bpd parent, and the bpd parent

chooses to cut us off rather than meet us halfway, it means we also lose other

enmeshed family members. Its possible that later in life the enmeshed,

dominated ones will decide that its safe to resume contact with you, but maybe

not. Its a risk we all have to be willing to take.

Wow, your mother really is pulling out all the stops and making this the hill

she wants to die on, so to speak, isn't she. Holy cow! Well, if your mother

is issuing this ultimatum and forcing you to choose between placating her, and

supporting the wishes of your bride to be, I hope that you will choose your

bride.

I stand by my earlier advice, and under such circumstances I feel its OK to

write back, " I'm sorry that you feel this way about my wedding plans, mother,

and I will understand if you feel too upset to attend. I'll miss you. "

Is your mother the type who, if she does attend, will make arrangements behind

your back with the orchestra leader or singer (or whoever) to announce the

mother-and-son dance without your knowledge and consent, making it look like you

have betrayed your new bride? I hope not.

-Annie

>

> Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the family. I tried

writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but she responded that

she did not want to see me if I don't change our minds about the dance. This

continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on the phone and

emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics that I said to them. She

also attacked my fiance for not opening up more to my family and said that she

comes off as a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is terrified

of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

>

> Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating his mother

like this and that he would readily dance with his mother. Between us, my mom

does not come off as and it was kind of humorous her comparing herself to

her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning which brought up

how she shared some history of abuse like my fiance and condemned my fiance's

mother for just standing by. My mom however knows very little of the actual

situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am ashamed of

for doing when I was growing up and how she is the better person for not saying

way back then that she'd remember what I did when it comes to my wedding. Which

by saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that she knows that

the threat of not spending Easter with them is killing me and has me upset. In

reality I groan about it when these family events come up because of her drama.

The only thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have turned against

me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her side in the email. The whole

email was very vicious and for some reason the subject of it was titled " Amen. "

>

> That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of that I did

not contact her once since the initial asking of us being civil come Easter. It

was very hard to ignore all of that, but I have heard nothing from her since

that email. I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a

bpd mother to try to work things out.

>

> What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term " nada " stand for

and where does it come from?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

Wow. I can so relate to all this " wedding drama. " My parents refused to come to

my wedding unless my husband and I put the wedding off for another year (after

everything was already scheduled and paid for - by US, not THEM) just so they

had time to " get used " to the idea. Yeah, right. We didn't, and they didn't

come, although they did, apparently, lurk out in the parking lot like stalkers

during most of the ceremony.Â

They also drag religion into their criticisms of me. So funny! When they asked

for one good reason why they should accept my husband, I replied (since they're

always talking about God's will for my life - which, apparently is to be

completely submissive to them for the entirety), " Because Jesus loved him enough

to die for him, and you can't even be in the same room with him for two

minutes! " They didn't see the hypocrisy, of course.Â

It's good that your friend has some experience with people like this. No one

around me does - except for the people in this group! Thank goodness for you

all!Â

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:56 AM

Subject: Re: Wedding Drama! continued...

Â

Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the family. I tried

writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but she responded that

she did not want to see me if I don't change our minds about the dance. This

continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on the phone and

emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics that I said to them. She

also attacked my fiance for not opening up more to my family and said that she

comes off as a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is terrified

of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating his mother

like this and that he would readily dance with his mother. Between us, my mom

does not come off as and it was kind of humorous her comparing herself to

her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning which brought up

how she shared some history of abuse like my fiance and condemned my fiance's

mother for just standing by. My mom however knows very little of the actual

situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am ashamed of

for doing when I was growing up and how she is the better person for not saying

way back then that she'd remember what I did when it comes to my wedding. Which

by saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that she knows that

the threat of not spending Easter with them is killing me and has me upset. In

reality I groan about it when these family events come up because of her drama.

The only thing

that bothers me is that my father and sister have turned against me. She

actually did rub in that my dad is on her side in the email. The whole email was

very vicious and for some reason the subject of it was titled " Amen. "

That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of that I did not

contact her once since the initial asking of us being civil come Easter. It was

very hard to ignore all of that, but I have heard nothing from her since that

email. I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a bpd

mother to try to work things out.

What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term " nada " stand for

and where does it come from?

Thanks.

Chris

> > >

> > > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do

not want their dance, we feel it would still embarrass them that it is not

being done, with him being there. My fiance feels that even though their

relationship is strained she does not want to draw this attention to her and him

over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced. Again I would still dance

with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to control things and we

don't want to start caving into her demands when I have already drawn a line in

the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My first thought on reading this is to ask why in the world

you're still reading text messages and e-mail of this sort. You

don't have to put up with this kind of crap. I think you need to

enforce some boundaries where communications are concerned.

Personally, I'd block her from sending these messages at all, or

delete them without reading them if they can't be blocked. I

absolutely refuse to put up with bad-mouthing from my nada,

regardless of what form it takes. Any contact she has with me

will be civil, or I will end it. You could try to exert some

control over the situation short of going that far if you don't

want to cut off the messages completely. Not responding to the

messages is a good choice, but you shouldn't have to put up with

reading them either.

It sounds like your father and sister are being her " flying

monkees " - that is they're buying into her behavior and

reporting what you say to her. That means you can't say anything

to them you don't want repeated to her at this point. I wouldn't

take her word for them having turned against you though. It is

possible that she persuaded them to tell her things and they did

it without malicious intent. Nadas are not trustworthy when it

comes to such things. They often try to drive wedges between

their children and between them and various other relatives. It

isn't uncommon for them to lie about what other family members

say or do in order to drive wedges between people. Sadly,

sometimes we have to limit our contact with the flying monkees

as well as the person with BPD. If they choose to continue

buying into the crazyness, your options are limited.

At 11:56 AM 04/10/2012 psy_0831 wrote:

>Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the

>family. I tried writing my mother to agree to keep the peace

>at Easter, but she responded that she did not want to see me if

>I don't change our minds about the dance. This continued with

>continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

>alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on

>the phone and emails to my dad at work, by taking about

>specifics that I said to them. She also attacked my fiance for

>not opening up more to my family and said that she comes off as

>a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is

>terrified of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

>

>Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not

>treating his mother like this and that he would readily dance

>with his mother. Between us, my mom does not come off as

>and it was kind of humorous her comparing herself to

>her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning

>which brought up how she shared some history of abuse like my

>fiance and condemned my fiance's mother for just standing

>by. My mom however knows very little of the actual

>situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that

>I am ashamed of for doing when I was growing up and how she is

>the better person for not saying way back then that she'd

>remember what I did when it comes to my wedding. Which by

>saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that she

>knows that the threat of not spending Easter with them is

>killing me and has me upset. In reality I groan about it when

>these family events come up because of her drama. The only

>thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have turned

>against me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her side

>in the email. The whole email was very vicious and for some

>reason the subject of it was titled " Amen. "

>

>That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all

>of that I did not contact her once since the initial asking of

>us being civil come Easter. It was very hard to ignore all of

>that, but I have heard nothing from her since that email. I

>have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has

>a bpd mother to try to work things out.

>

>What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term

> " nada " stand for and where does it come from?

>

>Thanks.

>

>Chris

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Nada is an acronym for " not a mother " in all those ways we would expect an

authentic mother to behave--supportive, loving, kind and just.

It sounds like your nada is finally feeling some pain for all the drama she

continues to cause--she is trying to persecute you because SHE DOES NOT WANT TO

FEEL HER OWN PAIN. She likes it much better if YOU feel her pain, or your father

or sister, anyone but her. She is in full propaganda mode, and will keep pushing

at dad and sister until they finally give in and turn their backs on you--or she

pushes them too far and they explode back at her. She has decided YOU are the

troublemaker and you must pay (and pay and pay). Sorry my friend.

It is likely a very good thing that your nada thinks your fiance is bored--if

she thought your fiance was scared of her, she would take so much advantage of

her, terrorize her. Let nada think your girl is aloof, snobby, and it might keep

nada in check.

As for her allusions to Jesus, if you read the passages in the Bible that deal

only with the interplay between Jesus and his mother, you don't see a boy who

appeases his mother. His mother and sisters tried to get him to stop teaching,

to stop healing, to " come away " with them lickety-split. Yet Jesus refused,

every time, and even denied his relationship to them. He felt he had more

important things to do than to listen to worry and nagging from his mother!

Check out Mc writings re: Jesus and family values.

>

> Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the family. I tried

writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but she responded that

she did not want to see me if I don't change our minds about the dance. This

continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on the phone and

emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics that I said to them. She

also attacked my fiance for not opening up more to my family and said that she

comes off as a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is terrified

of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

>

> Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating his mother

like this and that he would readily dance with his mother. Between us, my mom

does not come off as and it was kind of humorous her comparing herself to

her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning which brought up

how she shared some history of abuse like my fiance and condemned my fiance's

mother for just standing by. My mom however knows very little of the actual

situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am ashamed of

for doing when I was growing up and how she is the better person for not saying

way back then that she'd remember what I did when it comes to my wedding. Which

by saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that she knows that

the threat of not spending Easter with them is killing me and has me upset. In

reality I groan about it when these family events come up because of her drama.

The only thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have turned against

me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her side in the email. The whole

email was very vicious and for some reason the subject of it was titled " Amen. "

>

> That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of that I did

not contact her once since the initial asking of us being civil come Easter. It

was very hard to ignore all of that, but I have heard nothing from her since

that email. I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a

bpd mother to try to work things out.

>

> What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term " nada " stand for

and where does it come from?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to let you know that I am with you in the wedding drama. My nada is

refusing to come and has taken her whole family with her. I wouldn't be

surprised if she plans a pool party for them on that day. I'm really sorry that

your father and sister and not being supportive. You deserve to be supported by

your family and they are not there for you. It may be your nada's fault but they

should know better. I'm sure they've been on the recieving end of her crap

before. I think its really amazing that you are sticking to your guns and I hope

you are able to continue that. I hope you and your fiance have a really special

day surrounded by the people that truly love and support you. :-)

> >

> > Just as an update. I ended up not spending Easter with the family. I tried

writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but she responded that

she did not want to see me if I don't change our minds about the dance. This

continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the day. She

alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on the phone and

emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics that I said to them. She

also attacked my fiance for not opening up more to my family and said that she

comes off as a snob and looks bored at gatherings. In reality she is terrified

of my mom and feels she can not be herself.

> >

> > Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating his

mother like this and that he would readily dance with his mother. Between us,

my mom does not come off as and it was kind of humorous her comparing

herself to her. Finally I woke up to a very long email on Friday morning which

brought up how she shared some history of abuse like my fiance and condemned my

fiance's mother for just standing by. My mom however knows very little of the

actual situation. She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am

ashamed of for doing when I was growing up and how she is the better person for

not saying way back then that she'd remember what I did when it comes to my

wedding. Which by saying that she is actually doing that. She also said that

she knows that the threat of not spending Easter with them is killing me and has

me upset. In reality I groan about it when these family events come up because

of her drama. The only thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have

turned against me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her side in the

email. The whole email was very vicious and for some reason the subject of it

was titled " Amen. "

> >

> > That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of that I did

not contact her once since the initial asking of us being civil come Easter. It

was very hard to ignore all of that, but I have heard nothing from her since

that email. I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a

bpd mother to try to work things out.

> >

> > What are your thoughts on my update? Also what does the term " nada " stand

for and where does it come from?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to read your account, all of us on this board have " been there,

done that " , whether involving a wedding or a simple Sunday dinner. We empathize

with your pain, the FOG, the push-pull, and the feeling that your FOO (family of

origin) aren't supporting you.

For anyone close a BOD, the choice eventually arrives: do we cave to their

irrational demands, motivated by the desire for immediate self preservation and

to avoid drama, OR refuse to collapse under the FOG and EM (emotional

manipulation), and ACTUALLY begin the journey toward self-preservation despite

the drama.

It's a hard road, but as any difficult journey, it begins with a single step.

DO NOT RESPOND to her demands anymore, set your boundaries and enforce them.

You and your fiance need to set the stage NOW and be united together on all

fronts.

Definitely read the Walking on Eggshells series, the Borderline Mother is great,

too. Skeep posting to the board and get into therapy (if you're not already).

Unfortunately, nadas rarely improve, and you'll need coping skills and

strategies to deal with the past, present, and whatever lies ahead.

Best of luck; you're not alone here in Oz.

> > > >

> > > > Currently my mother and I are not speaking after a huge blow up at a get

together on my sister's birthday and a follow-up phone call by her the day after

(last Sunday). The blow-up involved our wedding. One issue with it involved

the issue of father-daughter and mother - son dances not being done. Here is

the situation. My fiance does not have a good relationship with her father and

he does not dance. She does not want to dance with her father and most likely

he would refuse to dance anyway. Well as a result we also did not want to have

an anounced mother - son dance, but I had stated that I will still save my

mother a dance. My mother is fuming mad that the moment is not special enough

for her and that she is entitled to this announcement by the DJ and the

attention being on us (her). We felt it would be bad etiquette to have one

announced dance without the other especially with her father in attendance.

While both my fiance and her dad do not want their dance, we feel it would still

embarrass them that it is not being done, with him being there. My fiance feels

that even though their relationship is strained she does not want to draw this

attention to her and him over this, by having the Mother-Son dance announced.

Again I would still dance with her. Thoughts? My mother is already trying to

control things and we don't want to start caving into her demands when I have

already drawn a line in the sand on the issue. What is proper here? Thanks

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your mother is throwing a tantrum. Picture her as a three year old on the floor

rolling around. " I wanna wedding dance and I want it NOW! You're such a meanie

and you've always hated me and I'm telling! Waaaaaaaaaa! " Would you believe what

a toddler was saying about you in a state like that? Would you argue with her

about it and try to convince her she's lying? Treat your mother the same way.

She is emotionally immature and still feels like a 2 or 3 year old inside. You

didn't buy her the candy bar in the checkout line. This is a power struggle, and

if you give even an inch, it's just going to be that much worse the next time.

Everything your mother said to you is just manipulation and emotional blackmail.

None of it deserves a response. This is what the DSM calls " frantic attempts to

avoid real or imagined abandonment. " But just for your sake, I'll insert some

comments below.

>

>I tried writing my mother to agree to keep the peace at Easter, but >she

responded that she did not want to see me if I don't change our >minds about the

dance.

So, essentially, " Give me my way or else! " And the " punishment " is not having

to see her. (To me that's not a tough decision, LOL) She's trying to make you

feel like a bad little boy. Your mother seriously sounds like she has a

Narcissist streak. Either worship at the Queen's feet (more on that below) or be

banished from her kingdom.

>This continued with continuous text messages from her throughout the >day.

She might say she doesn't want to see you, but that doesn't mean she doesn't

want to harass you. I agree with others--when you see this happening, at a very

minimum turn off your phone or stop reading texts. Personally, if someone felt

they could talk to me that way via txt message, they'd get their number blocked

from sending me another one ever again.

>She alluded to knowing all about my conversation with my sister on >the phone

and emails to my dad at work, by taking about specifics >that I said to them.

A lot of us have learned the hard way that if we don't want our disordered

parent to know something, we can't tell people who are still enmeshed with them.

We need validation and often seek it from other family members, but sometimes

they don't know how to set boundaries of their own. People with BPD are masters

at triangulation and love to tell people what so-and-so thinks or says about

them. Half the time it isn't even true.

>She also attacked my fiance for not opening up >more to my family >and said

that she comes off as a snob and looks >bored at >gatherings. In reality she is

terrified of my mom and >feels she >can not be herself.

Your mother just needs someone to attack. Fiancee is an easy target because

she's the one " stealing " your affections and loyalties. Personally, I suggest a

boundary that your mother is never to say another critical thing about your WIFE

to you ever again.

> Another set of text messages she sent alluded to Jesus not treating >his

mother like this and that he would readily dance with his >mother. Between us,

my mom does not come off as and it was >kind of humorous her comparing

herself to her.

is sometimes called the " Queen of Heaven. " Many people with NPD quite often

equate themselves either to or to Christ Jesus. It's a little bit funny for

the rest of us, but they seriously believe they are every bit as deserving. At

any rate, the real purpose of this comment was to use religion to manipulate

you. You're supposed to feel guilty because now you're going against Jesus. (And

Jesus is your mother.)

>She then went on to bringing up every incident that I am ashamed of >for doing

when I was growing up and how she is the better person for >not saying way back

then that she'd remember what I did when it >comes to my wedding. Which by

saying that she is actually doing >that.

Yes, people with BPD keep all our past mistakes in their arsenal to hurl back in

our faces at their convenience. The point is to make you feel horribly guilty.

Guilty enough to be grateful to them for still wanting something from you. My

mother resorts to this coping mechanism most often when she is feeling

particularly vulnerable and wants to shift any blame off herself. She likes to

bring up a time when I was 9 years old and misunderstood the hairdresser as

evidence that my perceptions can never be trusted. In your case, your mother is

using emotional blackmail. She is threatening you, that if you don't give her

what she wants, she will tell everyone the truth about what a horrible child you

were.

Well, guess what? All kids do " horrible " things. We make mistakes. Big deal.

Even if you were a secret drug-dealing-pimp in your younger days, nobody who

knows you now would care. This is another time when a boundary might help you. I

like to say, " We are not talking about [past event] right now. Stop changing the

subject. "

>She also said that she knows that the threat of not spending Easter >with them

is killing me and has me upset. In reality I groan about >it when these family

events come up because of her drama.

Again, the Queen cannot imagine that anyone wouldn't be falling over himself

just for a chance to bask in her glorious presence.

>The only thing that bothers me is that my father and sister have >turned

against me. She actually did rub in that my dad is on her >side in the email.

Well...you don't really know that unless you ask them directly. Like I said,

BPDs love triangles because it's a great way to pit people against each other.

Cutting out the middleman (the BPD) usually helps get to the truth. You might

let them know that you will still welcome them at your wedding even if your

mother decides she doesn't want to come.

Of course it hurts when the people we look to for support end up betraying our

trust. And that's something to think about--how much you turn to your father and

sister in the future if they aren't able to keep good boundaries about what you

share with them. And it's entirely possible that they are both so enmeshed that

they will " take your mother's side " just to avoid her wrath. It doesn't

necessarily mean either of them has a personal problem with you.

>The whole email was very vicious and for some >reason the subject of >it was

titled " Amen. "

Ok, that's just weird. But it should be a clue that nothing in there is going to

be coming from a reasonable, rational place.

>

> That was my Thursday and Friday of last week. Throughout all of >that I did

not contact her once since the initial asking of us being >civil come Easter. It

was very hard to ignore all of that, but I >have heard nothing from her since

that email.

APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! TWO BIG THUMBS UP!!!!

It's really hard to do that in the beginning. But good for you! You did what you

could--tried to make the peace one more time--but then you did NOT allow

yourself to be manipulated or blackmailed.

> I have since talked to a friend of mine from college who also has a >bpd

mother to try to work things out.

I hope that was helpful for you. Keep reading and posting here, too!

Sveta

[Guest guest]

OH wow, I just want to reiterate the best advice for newly weds! Set your

boundaries now and hold firm! It requires a united front!!

The BPD person will exploded against them just to see if they are permanent and

will hold. But then it becomes a little easier for us for as long the boundaries

kept firmly. Keep in mind that the reasonable relationship that we all dream of

so much with the BPD is not possible. Share that info with your fiance so she

understands it will never be normal. Find 'medium chill' and stay the course!

Best wishes for your wonderful day