Money, Intrusion, First Post

[Guest guest]

There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll try to

be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if you want to

skip all the stuff at the beginning.

I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that she has

BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact that my sister

and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage at my sister and I.

My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that I'm " rebellious " or lazy,

despite being a very stable, hard working person.

In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally violent

madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though I don't see

her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she still tries to

control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my financial situation.

I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account as

well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she will sign

herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm married. Since

she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank account in my name at

different bank.

In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me half of

her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She agreed. I made

sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an e-mail or through a

text message.

A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday present "

to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She has never been

interested in learning about art. She is also a very impatient woman.

My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of the

class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at the

therapist's office this Friday.

So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing one

is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been increasingly

worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the class, I'm afraid

that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a way that would make the

class view me as very, very young and unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and

shaky when my mom displays anger. I'm worried that my other students, in

response, might leave the class or simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm

also concerned that even if she doesn't take the class, that she'll become

vengeful (as she's frequently done in the past) and she'll not give me the

agreed upon tax money.

I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation? Any

advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk with her?

Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up with her? I also

appreciate personal stories about how you started to become independent.

[Guest guest]

Hi, and welcome.

Have you read Randi Kreger's " Stop Walking on Eggshells " book? If not, I

highly recommend it, or " Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

Disorder " as good resources for beginning to create boundaries.

As for your mother signing up for art class--is it a graded thing? If so,

there would be conflict of interest, and the registrar's office should try

to put her in a different class. Even if it's a more informal art class,

could you speak with the director of the studio and explain the possible

conflict of interest? Perhaps, if you're comfortable with it, you could

explain that your mother is abusive, and you would rather not teach a class

with her in it, and then the studio could remove her from the class's

roster and explain it as a " conflict of interest " issue.

If you can't somehow get your mother unassigned from the class, I would

advise having a statement on your syllabus about class behavior. A lot of

my professors in undergrad had it on their syllabi. If a student is

disruptive or abusive, the professor reserves the right to ask a student to

leave, and if necessary, remove them from the class entirely. (I forget how

they worded it. Something like that.)

As for the dependency thing...that could be fraudulent. I don't really know

about tax laws, but you may want to be careful about that. I'm not sure if

half the money your mother gets from you being a dependent makes up for the

fact that it makes you pay more in taxes.

The bank account thing sounds so familiar. I was 16 when my fada (we tend

to refer to our parents in this Group as nadas (ie, not a mother) and fada

(not a father)) set up a bank account for me--with his name on it. The next

year when my brother became 16, he didn't do that. I don't know if it was a

oldest child thing, or if it was because I was female, or it was a BPD

thing, but it was really awkward having his name on my checks since people

asked if he was my husband.

In any case, I'm glad you set up your own bank account and moved your money

over there. That's exactly what you should do, as a form of boundaries.

That's exactly what I did in 2008, when I was in undergrad and still living

at home. I took out $20 here and there from the ATM, and then when I had

enough, I deposited it into a savings account in a completely different

bank. Then, when I took on a second job on campus, I did direct deposit

into a checking account in the same aforementioned bank. It was secret for

a while, until my fada asked me one day where the money from my second job

was. I had no idea he was monitoring my bank account. I finally had to tell

him I had a new private account, and he didn't speak to me for a couple of

days. It bothered me, but I still wanted to keep my money *mine.*

Once he knew about the other accounts, I put all my student loan refunds

that I had saved for two years into my other checking account, telling fada

that it was a savings account. It helped me to secretly pay the deposit on

an apartment I was going to share with a friend. I didn't tell fada that I

was moving out until a couple weeks beforehand, when I had to start

packing. I didn't trust him not to be not-so-passive-aggressive, or to not

rage at me, while packing, and I knew I couldn't handle too much shit.

It was so worth moving out. It was on my 21st birthday. And fada raged at

me when he got a chance, telling me I was spoiled and a brat...

Then when fada disowned me the next year (after I got engaged), he told me

to give back the car (which I was paying for half of, and he was paying the

other half. It was a spoken agreement), the cheap cell phone that he bought

me just so I could call him every time I went somewhere or was on my way

home, and that he was taking me off of health insurance.

The first thing I did was to take out all of the money out of the joint

account I had with fada, close it, and put it into my own private account.

Fortunately I didn't need his signature to close the account. I didn't

trust him with my money. Then I left the phone in the car, and the car in a

church's parking lot near my family's house, and mailed the keys back to

him. It happened that the payment was due on the car around the same time,

so when he found that the account was closed, he emailed me asking me for

the money on the car. I just ignored the email since the mail was still

being delivered. And sure enough, he got the keys to the car the next day.

He sent me an angry email going on about how it's so dangerous! how dare I!

and basically calling me selfish again.

Anyway, long story short, that was how I became independent. Not exactly a

peaceful process, but three years later, I can say that it was worth it.

Anyway, sorry you have to be on this group, but the people on here have

been so helpful and supportive

Holly

> **

>

>

> There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll

> try to be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if

> you want to skip all the stuff at the beginning.

>

> I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

> diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that

> she has BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact

> that my sister and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage

> at my sister and I. My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that

> I'm " rebellious " or lazy, despite being a very stable, hard working person.

>

> In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

> trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally

> violent madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though

> I don't see her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she

> still tries to control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my

> financial situation.

>

> I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

> received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account

> as well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she

> will sign herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm

> married. Since she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank

> account in my name at different bank.

>

> In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me

> half of her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She

> agreed. I made sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an

> e-mail or through a text message.

>

> A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday

> present " to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She

> has never been interested in learning about art. She is also a very

> impatient woman.

> My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of

> the class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at

> the therapist's office this Friday.

>

> So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing

> one is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been

> increasingly worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the

> class, I'm afraid that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a

> way that would make the class view me as very, very young and

> unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and shaky when my mom displays anger.

> I'm worried that my other students, in response, might leave the class or

> simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm also concerned that even if she

> doesn't take the class, that she'll become vengeful (as she's frequently

> done in the past) and she'll not give me the agreed upon tax money.

>

> I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation?

> Any advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk

> with her? Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up

> with her? I also appreciate personal stories about how you started to

> become independent.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

who knows why she is doing such a thing. my nada would say she is " supporting "

me, and probably cry if I did not pay enough attention to her. and I would be so

nervous to screw up I would. that is how things generally go when Nada is

supporting me.

it sounds like you are doing what you can in the bank account stuff. your name

is on it, so withdraw all of your money. do so for the investment account too

and eat any penalties. I think you should tell her in therapy not to claim you

on her taxes, and not to take the art class. if you don't want her to you should

say so. you are not hers. you are yourself.

if you are still in college and she claims you, you probably can't get financial

aid. that is what happened to me. with financial aid I could have payed for my

own college. my nada would not let me work when I was at home. she insisted I

would miss out on " opportunities " if I worked. she also refused to help me learn

to drive, and my dad in classic fashion said absolutely nothing when I asked him

to teach me. she used to very covertly try to turn me against people that were

important to me. adults as well as friends. she did a pretty good job. recently

I have had a huge paradigm shift about a lot of people.

when choosing a college I went somewhere no one I knew lived. it was the best

thing I ever did. at first Nada spoon fed me my tuition and living expenses on

the understanding that I would " pay her back " all the while convincing me not to

work. to this day she holds it over my head that I " owe her " but she changes her

story on how much.

my husband and I payed her some money once and she insisted that this was not a

re-payment, but that she would " hold onto " the money for us. she gloats often

about what all of us " owe " her and what a nice mother she is. and reminds us

often of how she will support us when needed. she practically shoves money down

everyone's throat whenever she can.

breaking free has been hard, and I am still in the middle of it. for me in the

emotional sense it started about 2 years ago. but practically speaking I have

only known about BPD since November. I had a devastating experience with her

this summer when she basically confirmed my biggest fears about her (that she

did not believe 90% of my life even happened) and I have been in deep morning

for her ever since, and started having huge manifestations of PTSD. It got to

the point that I realized talking to her made me have symptoms,and I told her I

needed to do e-mail only for a while (we live thousands of miles away) she

reacted...badly about that. she still tries to get me to relent. but e-mail (and

horrible letter) whining is so much less hurtful than talking to her. she has

" no idea " what she did to make me so " mad " at her. (she thinks that anything she

did more than a week or so ago is " in the past " and does not count)

I am also undergoing extensive treatment for a medical condition she likely

caused and that I have had my whole life that I am being treated for now. I used

that as my excuse for the e-mailing she has (naturally) not acknowledged

anything about that since she still questions it really exists. I am also being

treated for PTSD I have not told nada that nor will I. if she finds out it will

not come from me.

you are your own person, and you should do what it takes to take care of

yourself. she can't nurture you, so you should remove her from that role.

Meikjn

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll

> > try to be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if

> > you want to skip all the stuff at the beginning.

> >

> > I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

> > diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that

> > she has BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact

> > that my sister and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage

> > at my sister and I. My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that

> > I'm " rebellious " or lazy, despite being a very stable, hard working person.

> >

> > In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

> > trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally

> > violent madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though

> > I don't see her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she

> > still tries to control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my

> > financial situation.

> >

> > I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

> > received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account

> > as well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she

> > will sign herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm

> > married. Since she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank

> > account in my name at different bank.

> >

> > In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me

> > half of her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She

> > agreed. I made sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an

> > e-mail or through a text message.

> >

> > A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday

> > present " to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She

> > has never been interested in learning about art. She is also a very

> > impatient woman.

> > My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of

> > the class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at

> > the therapist's office this Friday.

> >

> > So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing

> > one is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been

> > increasingly worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the

> > class, I'm afraid that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a

> > way that would make the class view me as very, very young and

> > unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and shaky when my mom displays anger.

> > I'm worried that my other students, in response, might leave the class or

> > simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm also concerned that even if she

> > doesn't take the class, that she'll become vengeful (as she's frequently

> > done in the past) and she'll not give me the agreed upon tax money.

> >

> > I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation?

> > Any advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk

> > with her? Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up

> > with her? I also appreciate personal stories about how you started to

> > become independent.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply, Holly.

For clarification:

I have read SWOE. I read it rather quickly, so it would probably be useful to

re-read it. I do not work at a university, so it's not as formal. I have

discussed the matter and she said that my mom would have to first do something

in the class for my mom to be kicked out of the class. Basically my boss said

that her hands were tied and that I had to be the one to ask her not to come. If

she does decide to come to the class anyway, it would be a good idea to have a

class etiquette sheet. I've had problems with another student in the past, so it

could hit two birds with one stone. I don't know why I didn't think of that

before. Thanks.

As for the tax business, I checked with several different tax accountants before

I agreed to be filed as a dependant. I was in school for last year so while I

could be filed independently, I also qualified as a dependant.

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry you had to deal with it, but it sounds

like you were really gutsy and you did the right thing.

I've fantisized a lot about cutting off all contact with my nada. It's nice to

hear about someone who has and who is happy with the choice they've made.

Thanks again for your advise and for your story!

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll

> > try to be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if

> > you want to skip all the stuff at the beginning.

> >

> > I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

> > diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that

> > she has BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact

> > that my sister and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage

> > at my sister and I. My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that

> > I'm " rebellious " or lazy, despite being a very stable, hard working person.

> >

> > In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

> > trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally

> > violent madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though

> > I don't see her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she

> > still tries to control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my

> > financial situation.

> >

> > I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

> > received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account

> > as well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she

> > will sign herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm

> > married. Since she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank

> > account in my name at different bank.

> >

> > In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me

> > half of her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She

> > agreed. I made sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an

> > e-mail or through a text message.

> >

> > A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday

> > present " to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She

> > has never been interested in learning about art. She is also a very

> > impatient woman.

> > My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of

> > the class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at

> > the therapist's office this Friday.

> >

> > So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing

> > one is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been

> > increasingly worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the

> > class, I'm afraid that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a

> > way that would make the class view me as very, very young and

> > unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and shaky when my mom displays anger.

> > I'm worried that my other students, in response, might leave the class or

> > simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm also concerned that even if she

> > doesn't take the class, that she'll become vengeful (as she's frequently

> > done in the past) and she'll not give me the agreed upon tax money.

> >

> > I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation?

> > Any advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk

> > with her? Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up

> > with her? I also appreciate personal stories about how you started to

> > become independent.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

All of what you said about your relationship with you and your mother sounds so

familiar. It's awful and kind of nice that ther are others who have been through

similar things as me.

Taking out the investment money would be a good idea. I haven't yet because nada

has told me that I couldn't for a variety of reasons, all of which are probably

just falsified information. I should just ask the investment people directly.

You're absolutely right about the art class thing. I am not around to please her

or make her happy. I need to look out for my well being. I am my own person.

Thankfully I don't have to worry about the financial aid thing. I won't be going

to grad school at least for another year or so. I do, however, wish I would have

known this in undergraduate school.

Isn't it strange how understanding that a caretaker has BPD is like mourning a

death? After I learned about BPD, I realized that my mom was never going to be

the mom she was to my step-siblings.

My nada also did some smear campaigns on my dad and his family. It's only been

recently that I've found out that what she was saying was largely false.

I have had such similar experiences as you in regards to " owing her " and how she

doesn't remember her abuse and neglect. I think only talking to her in an e-mail

is something I will probably do sometime in the near future. I also have a few

symptoms of PTSD, which get greatly get exaggerated when I have to be in her

presence during serious discussions.

Thanks again and good luck.

>

> who knows why she is doing such a thing. my nada would say she is

" supporting " me, and probably cry if I did not pay enough attention to her. and

I would be so nervous to screw up I would. that is how things generally go when

Nada is supporting me.

>

> it sounds like you are doing what you can in the bank account stuff. your

name is on it, so withdraw all of your money. do so for the investment account

too and eat any penalties. I think you should tell her in therapy not to claim

you on her taxes, and not to take the art class. if you don't want her to you

should say so. you are not hers. you are yourself.

>

> if you are still in college and she claims you, you probably can't get

financial aid. that is what happened to me. with financial aid I could have

payed for my own college. my nada would not let me work when I was at home. she

insisted I would miss out on " opportunities " if I worked. she also refused to

help me learn to drive, and my dad in classic fashion said absolutely nothing

when I asked him to teach me. she used to very covertly try to turn me against

people that were important to me. adults as well as friends. she did a pretty

good job. recently I have had a huge paradigm shift about a lot of people.

>

> when choosing a college I went somewhere no one I knew lived. it was the best

thing I ever did. at first Nada spoon fed me my tuition and living expenses on

the understanding that I would " pay her back " all the while convincing me not to

work. to this day she holds it over my head that I " owe her " but she changes her

story on how much.

>

> my husband and I payed her some money once and she insisted that this was not

a re-payment, but that she would " hold onto " the money for us. she gloats often

about what all of us " owe " her and what a nice mother she is. and reminds us

often of how she will support us when needed. she practically shoves money down

everyone's throat whenever she can.

>

> breaking free has been hard, and I am still in the middle of it. for me in the

emotional sense it started about 2 years ago. but practically speaking I have

only known about BPD since November. I had a devastating experience with her

this summer when she basically confirmed my biggest fears about her (that she

did not believe 90% of my life even happened) and I have been in deep morning

for her ever since, and started having huge manifestations of PTSD. It got to

the point that I realized talking to her made me have symptoms,and I told her I

needed to do e-mail only for a while (we live thousands of miles away) she

reacted...badly about that. she still tries to get me to relent. but e-mail (and

horrible letter) whining is so much less hurtful than talking to her. she has

" no idea " what she did to make me so " mad " at her. (she thinks that anything she

did more than a week or so ago is " in the past " and does not count)

>

> I am also undergoing extensive treatment for a medical condition she likely

caused and that I have had my whole life that I am being treated for now. I used

that as my excuse for the e-mailing she has (naturally) not acknowledged

anything about that since she still questions it really exists. I am also being

treated for PTSD I have not told nada that nor will I. if she finds out it will

not come from me.

>

> you are your own person, and you should do what it takes to take care of

yourself. she can't nurture you, so you should remove her from that role.

> Meikjn

[Guest guest]

What a tangle. Perhaps you can tell her you could never take money from her for

a class and instead offer to teach her at home? I only say this because she is

bound to be horribly disruptive to your class. Not only that, whatever fantasies

she pictures about the class are bound to fail, and then she will be

unreasonably hurt and angry.

As for the tax issue I'll just say this: making a deal with the Devil is bound

to turn out better than making a deal with a BPD. Never give them power over

you, especially financially. Even if the deal sounds like you will have the

upper hand, you won't in reality.

>

> There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll try

to be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if you want

to skip all the stuff at the beginning.

>

> I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that she has

BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact that my sister

and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage at my sister and I.

My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that I'm " rebellious " or lazy,

despite being a very stable, hard working person.

>

> In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally violent

madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though I don't see

her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she still tries to

control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my financial situation.

>

> I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account as

well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she will sign

herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm married. Since

she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank account in my name at

different bank.

>

> In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me half of

her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She agreed. I made

sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an e-mail or through a

text message.

>

> A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday

present " to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She has

never been interested in learning about art. She is also a very impatient woman.

> My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of the

class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at the

therapist's office this Friday.

>

> So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing one

is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been increasingly

worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the class, I'm afraid

that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a way that would make the

class view me as very, very young and unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and

shaky when my mom displays anger. I'm worried that my other students, in

response, might leave the class or simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm

also concerned that even if she doesn't take the class, that she'll become

vengeful (as she's frequently done in the past) and she'll not give me the

agreed upon tax money.

>

> I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation? Any

advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk with her?

Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up with her? I also

appreciate personal stories about how you started to become independent.

>

[Guest guest]

I think your gut instinct is correct. If your bpd mom has behaved that way

toward you in the past: if she has been insulting to you or tried to shame or

humiliate you in public before, then, there's a greater chance of her doing it

again.

So, I would just say something like, " Mom, I'm not ready to have friends or

relatives or other loved ones as my students, yet. Maybe next year I'll have

gained more professional detachment and objectivity with friends and relatives

as pupils, but not just yet. Thanks for understanding. "

If she tries to argue with you about it, say something like, " My decision is

firm, mom. Sorry, that's the best I can do. " or " I believe I've already

answered that question, mom. Thanks for understanding. " like a broken record.

She doesn't have to understand or buy into your reasoning, she just has to

understand " No. "

I hope that helps.

-Annie

>

> There's so much background information that I would like to say, but I'll try

to be brief. The main questions I have are right down at the bottom, if you want

to skip all the stuff at the beginning.

>

> I'm a 24 year old woman and my sister is 22. My mom has been unofficially

diagnosed with BPD by our family therapist. My mother does not know that she has

BPD, only my sister, our therapist, and I know. Despite the fact that my sister

and I were very good children, my mom would frequently rage at my sister and I.

My mom occasionally tells adults we interact with that I'm " rebellious " or lazy,

despite being a very stable, hard working person.

>

> In the last year of high school and my first few years of college, I began

trying to stand up for myself. This was met by my mom's occasionally violent

madness. I moved out of her house right before I turned 21. Though I don't see

her anger as much, I do encounter a lot of situations where she still tries to

control important aspects of my life. Most notably, my financial situation.

>

> I set up an investment account when I was young. I put any extra money I

received into the account. My mom, of course, was signed onto the account as

well. She also jointly owns my bank account. She has told me that she will sign

herself off of the accounts when I'm " more stable " or when I'm married. Since

she refused to get off of my bank account, I set up a bank account in my name at

different bank.

>

> In early March, I agreed to file as a dependent as long as she gave me half of

her money she would receive from claiming me as a dependent. She agreed. I made

sure that this agreement was done in writing, either in an e-mail or through a

text message.

>

> A few weeks after we made this agreement, she decided, as a " birthday

present " to sign up for one of the painting classes that I'm teaching. She has

never been interested in learning about art. She is also a very impatient woman.

> My income depends on students signing up for classes. The start date of the

class is only about a week away. I will be talking with my mother at the

therapist's office this Friday.

>

> So, while I have a lot of other problems with my mother, the most pressing one

is trying to tell her " no, you can't be in the class " . I have been increasingly

worried about her reaction. If she ignores me and takes the class, I'm afraid

that she would rage in class or she would treat me in a way that would make the

class view me as very, very young and unprofessional. I tend to get nervous and

shaky when my mom displays anger. I'm worried that my other students, in

response, might leave the class or simply not sign up for future sessions. I'm

also concerned that even if she doesn't take the class, that she'll become

vengeful (as she's frequently done in the past) and she'll not give me the

agreed upon tax money.

>

> I guess, essentially, I'm asking what you all think about the situation? Any

advice on how to start setting boundaries? Any advice on how to talk with her?

Is it even possible to take control over the accounts I set up with her? I also

appreciate personal stories about how you started to become independent.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your help!

I talked with my mom and our family therapist on Friday. I explained that I

wanted to have her taken off of all of my bank/investment accounts and that I

wanted her to get out of my painting class.

She behaved very well in front of the therapist. She told me that I could have

complete control over the accounts and that she would drop my painting class.

She said that she wasn't sure why I wanted her out of the bank/investment

accounts. She stated that she had never taken money out of my accounts to pay

for her own things(which is not true). It was nice to hear her agree to do the

things I asked, now I just have to wait to see if she'll actually go through

with what she agreed to do. I will be talking this Wednesday with the

bank/investment accounts to see what I and she need to do to get her name off of

the accounts.

After the meeting, she talked to me in the parking lot. She said that she knew

she could have done better with my sister and I when we were kids. She then

said, " There were times where I was so tired of doing the right thing. Sometimes

I just wanted to do the wrong thing. And I'm not sure I feel guilty for that. "

She was laughing and smiling while she said this. I was caught off guard by her

admission, so I just nodded. Now I'm not sure if she understands guilt. Good

people don't knowingly hurt a child and then not feel bad about it. It was very,

very strange.

Thanks again for your advice and your stories. I finally feel like other people

understand. I'll continue to work at setting boundaries with my nada and I'll

continue to work on not letting her emotions make me emotional. Good luck to you

all. I'm glad to be a part of this community.

[Guest guest]

That is wonderful, how very assertive of you! Big virtual high-five from me! I

think you deserve to treat yourself to something nice, as a reward for taking

charge and handling this so well. That was a great idea to discuss this with

your mother with the therapist present, really proactive!

Brava!

And yes, it IS disturbing to discover that our own parent seems to lack normal

empathy, a sense of remorse or a conscience.

I myself was rather shocked when my own mother sort of casually admitted to me

that she had " given up on having a normal mother-daughter relationship " with me

before I was three years old! She said this apparently with NO comprehension

that it was incredibly abnormal, plus she insinuated that it was my fault: that

I, her baby, had rejected her and hated her!

After this admission, she looked at me expectantly with moist eyes: I was

supposed to apologize for having hurt her so deeply, apparently. I was kind of

thunderstruck; struck speechless, actually, because suddenly so many

puzzle-pieces fell into place for me. " Holy freaking cow..., " I thought. " No

wonder I felt replaced by my baby sister; I literally WAS replaced by her! "

Anyway, I truly hope that you are able to rescue/secure your bank accounts

safely and that your bpd mother won't raid them (out of retaliation or revenge)

before you have a chance to remove her as a co-owner (or however that's called.)

-Annie

>

> Thanks everyone for your help!

>

> I talked with my mom and our family therapist on Friday. I explained that I

wanted to have her taken off of all of my bank/investment accounts and that I

wanted her to get out of my painting class.

> She behaved very well in front of the therapist. She told me that I could have

complete control over the accounts and that she would drop my painting class.

She said that she wasn't sure why I wanted her out of the bank/investment

accounts. She stated that she had never taken money out of my accounts to pay

for her own things(which is not true). It was nice to hear her agree to do the

things I asked, now I just have to wait to see if she'll actually go through

with what she agreed to do. I will be talking this Wednesday with the

bank/investment accounts to see what I and she need to do to get her name off of

the accounts.

>

> After the meeting, she talked to me in the parking lot. She said that she knew

she could have done better with my sister and I when we were kids. She then

said, " There were times where I was so tired of doing the right thing. Sometimes

I just wanted to do the wrong thing. And I'm not sure I feel guilty for that. "

She was laughing and smiling while she said this. I was caught off guard by her

admission, so I just nodded. Now I'm not sure if she understands guilt. Good

people don't knowingly hurt a child and then not feel bad about it. It was very,

very strange.

>

> Thanks again for your advice and your stories. I finally feel like other

people understand. I'll continue to work at setting boundaries with my nada and

I'll continue to work on not letting her emotions make me emotional. Good luck

to you all. I'm glad to be a part of this community.

>