Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier support. There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never happens, does it? If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was here? If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us to take joy in her win! So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed her. And we lose once more. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 I am NC with my Nada (oh, how I love that name, let me count the ways...!)  - but I absolutely understand all that you are saying below about never telling your Nada ANYTHING, EVER. Anything you tell them - from things about the kids to random fact about your close friend she will hold against you, twist, regurgitate during a fight, throw in your face etc.. If I told her one day that a few friends in the office were complimenting my skirt you can actually see the jealous pain in my nada's face and she quickly switches the subject to a random topic like the weather or says " can you get me a skirt like that? " - somehow she actually thinks that the skirt will fill her deep, dark, holes - which it never, ever will. Jealousy, emptiness, depression cause her to not even want to hear anything nice about her own daughter. When I became a VP of the company I work at - 6 seconds after I told her she said " I wish you would continue to move-up and become President. "  Nothing is ever enough. When I was a child I would show her father (my grandfather) a spelling test that I got a 98 on and he would say " where are the other two points? " - this is what my mother used to do to me/my kids as well. I will explain how well my kids are doing in school and without acknowledging their success she turns it around and says " Well you need to get them ahead, make sure they are reading every night, doing multiplication, going to museums, studying vocabulary words every night " etc... (my girls are a mere 5 and 7 years old). As my Nada vomits up things that happened 40 years ago it makes me reflect on how many times I had gotten burned by telling her things - never again!  The only way to win with Nada is by not talking to her, not getting caught up in her vicitm-like tendencies - always the victim - its nauseating. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 10:26 AM Subject: Never tell them anything  A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier support. There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never happens, does it? If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was here? If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us to take joy in her win! So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed her. And we lose once more. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Dough, thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I can totally relate and can tell you it's been torture for me at times. There have been so many times that I think well maybe this time...and sometimes she's good but for the most part she's very inconsistent so trusting her it VERY difficult. It hurts my heart to know I can't share anything with my nada. I have tried very hard to keep my talks with my nada lately as trivial and impersonal as possible because I was tired of feeling hurt every time I'd hang up. I was tired of not being able to sleep thinking of what I had done wrong for her to be uninterested in my LIFE and just drove myself crazy thinking. Thinking if I was expecting too much from her to actually be excited about hearing about my kids, I'd wonder if I had talked too much about my kids, or if it was even normal to assume grandparents would enjoy hearing about their grandkids. The list of torment on my part goes on. Thankfully asking my husband about my thoughts does help and he does validate me and comforts me, but I feel like my issues are huge and hate to burden him with my thoughts. This is why I have finally just decided to find a therapist. One thing now that's driving me nuts is that now that I've pulled away from my nada she's taken notice and is being so nice and " motherly. " I can tell she feels badly. When she acts like this I sometimes think, GOD maybe I have vilified her and she can't do or say anything right. Other times I feel like this just her way of being desperate and she'll just pounce on me again when I let her back in. UGH! Sometimes I think dealing with these issues are just too much and wish I could have the hurt to just be NC with her because I should have every right to live MY LIFE. Thanks again for posting this. It is comforting to read that maybe what I think is normal or typical behavior to expect from parent is actually normal. Ariel > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > support. > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > happens, does it? > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > here? > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > to take joy in her win! > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > her. And we lose once more. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I had never put it together before, but you are right. I can never tell my mother what really happens in my life or my sons life. If I succeed, she is threatened. If I am close to my Dad or my brothers she is threatened. If I fail, she if offended. Or I am lectured about how she would have done it. Why is it at 57 I am only now seeing this? I have beaten myself up for decade after decade trying to establish a relationship. I have always seen myself as the problem. Oh, I knew she had issues but I felt, if only I could ... fill in the blank, it would be okay. So now I know it won't happen, it can't change or has a miniscule chance of changing. My mom is so very smart and talented, yet so very fraile and damaged. What a waste of potential. And what a hard road back out of the rabbit hole. Every word in every relationship I have, I second guess. I constantly ask myself if I offended, said the wrong thing. I wake up at night with my brain reliving probably totally inconsequencial conversations, wondering what I did wrong. The only normality you know is how you were raised so you fall into relationships with other BPDs or Kids of; and so the cycle goes. How do I protect my son from this insanity. It is probably to late. He is 20+. I have to hope that love will make a difference, that compassion and forgiveness can win the day and change at least the worst of the damage. I want to believe that. I don't understand why someone would chose to hurt some one they love. Teri ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Fri, April 6, 2012 9:26:39 AM Subject: Never tell them anything  A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier support. There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never happens, does it? If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was here? If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us to take joy in her win! So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed her. And we lose once more. Doug Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 I don't know who any of you folks are, but as I read these posts and see how closely so many of them parallel my own experience I want to give all of you hugs! It's so nice to know it's not just me and there are others out there who understand what I've gone through. This post was a big one for me. Why is it that our Nada's have the power to be able to drag all of our information out of us. I always end up thinking. Maybe this time she'll be proud of me. Best to not let them know anything. I am seriously enjoying my LC. > Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I had never put it > together before, but you are right. > I can never tell my mother what really happens in my life or my sons life. > > If I succeed, she is threatened. If I am close to my Dad or my brothers she is > threatened. > > If I fail, she if offended. Or I am lectured about how she would have done it. > > Why is it at 57 I am only now seeing this? > I have beaten myself up for decade after decade trying to establish a > relationship. I have always seen myself as the problem. > Oh, I knew she had issues but I felt, if only I could ... fill in the blank, it > would be okay. > > So now I know it won't happen, it can't change or has a miniscule chance of > changing. > > My mom is so very smart and talented, yet so very fraile and damaged. What a > waste of potential. > > And what a hard road back out of the rabbit hole. Every word in every > relationship I have, I second guess. > I constantly ask myself if I offended, said the wrong thing. I wake up at night > with my brain reliving probably totally inconsequencial conversations, wondering > what I did wrong. > > The only normality you know is how you were raised so you fall into > relationships with other BPDs or Kids of; and so the cycle goes. > > How do I protect my son from this insanity. It is probably to late. He is 20+. > I have to hope that love will make a difference, that compassion and forgiveness > can win the day and change at least the worst of the damage. > I want to believe that. I don't understand why someone would chose to hurt some > one they love. > > Teri > > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, April 6, 2012 9:26:39 AM > Subject: Never tell them anything > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > support. > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > happens, does it? > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > here? > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > to take joy in her win! > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > her. And we lose once more. > > Doug > > Wow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Ariel, I really relate to what you said about withdrawing a bit and then getting a carrot dangled in front of your face.... atleast that's how I see it. It's like she can tell I'm stepping back, and she suddenly wants to do everything for me. But keep in mind, she's doing that in an effort to manipulate you, not because she acknowledges she did anything wrong or feels sorry. That's what kills me... never any acknowledgement of anything wrong on her part. And if I take the bait and let her get close again, once I've let my guard down, the guilt trip begins about how I was so cold and distant and unkind. Keep the boundaries there. Don't be fooled, it's not all in your head, you aren't exaggerating it. I'm trying to work at saying " That's okay mom, you don't need to do that for me. I'm fine. " And then carry on and do it when she offers help with things in an effort to get too involved again. I don't want to have to pay back her help with double interest and a dollop of guilt on top. > > > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > > support. > > > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > > happens, does it? > > > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > > here? > > > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > > to take joy in her win! > > > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > > her. And we lose once more. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Teri, I never connected my constant second guessing to being a KO, but I too replay every conversation and interaction with people. I feel doubly exhausted at night because it's like I've had to sit through my day again on rewind, analyzing what I said, if it was right... My mom is incredibly talented too, it's just so heartbreaking to see someone so injured inside. > > Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I had never put it > together before, but you are right. > I can never tell my mother what really happens in my life or my sons life. > > If I succeed, she is threatened. If I am close to my Dad or my brothers she is > threatened. > > If I fail, she if offended. Or I am lectured about how she would have done it. > > Why is it at 57 I am only now seeing this? > I have beaten myself up for decade after decade trying to establish a > relationship. I have always seen myself as the problem. > Oh, I knew she had issues but I felt, if only I could ... fill in the blank, it > would be okay. > > So now I know it won't happen, it can't change or has a miniscule chance of > changing. > > My mom is so very smart and talented, yet so very fraile and damaged. What a > waste of potential. > > And what a hard road back out of the rabbit hole. Every word in every > relationship I have, I second guess. > I constantly ask myself if I offended, said the wrong thing. I wake up at night > with my brain reliving probably totally inconsequencial conversations, wondering > what I did wrong. > > The only normality you know is how you were raised so you fall into > relationships with other BPDs or Kids of; and so the cycle goes. > > > How do I protect my son from this insanity. It is probably to late. He is 20+. > I have to hope that love will make a difference, that compassion and forgiveness > can win the day and change at least the worst of the damage. > I want to believe that. I don't understand why someone would chose to hurt some > one they love. > > Teri > > > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Fri, April 6, 2012 9:26:39 AM > Subject: Never tell them anything > >  > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > support. > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > happens, does it? > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > here? > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > to take joy in her win! > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > her. And we lose once more. > > Doug > > > Wow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I m empathetic to how injured our nadas are, or were. It is truly sad that they are so hungry and empty that a time to comfort, or nurture, or build up thier child is always turned into something about them. They have to be truly sick to function that way. But I am more empathetic to other children of BP s, because I lived that life. I know that we never receieved comfort from mom, without having it changed to " It just hurts my heart so much. " Excuse me? I m the one hurt, and we are discussing how my pain ends up making you the victim? We never received praise , without hearing how we sing or dance well because of all her sacrifice and encouragement to get us to work harder. If we get an A on a term paper, we will inevitably hear Mom talk about how she suffered the agonies of hell with me while I stayed up writing, but she got me through it and it was all worth it to see her baby get an A. What we never got, was Honey, I m sorry you re hurt. What we never heard, was Nice job! You ve really been practicing. What we never felt was, I know you worked hard for that. I m proud of you. Instead, it was always, Let me tell you how I made that happen, or how it affects me. The message, subtle as it might have been, was you cannot be worthy and signifigant, because I must derive all the possible worth and signifigance from the event since I have none. I m sure you won t mind sharing it all with me, since of course I raised you that way. Maybe next time it can be about you. No, my empathy is for us, the adults, who from our childhood lived with a Hoover vacuum attached to our every word and deed. Any of it we shared ended up filling her deepest needs. Ours were neglected or stolen by the one we had every right to expect was most invested in our success or happiness. So we were doubly injured. We did not receive what we should from Nada. And we felt the guilt of not sharing our lives with her so she could take pleasure in our joys, because we had learned that was not the way it was ever going to happen with our mother. For our mother, was Nada. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Thank you. I think I constantly remind myself of my moms illness and excuse it because some how that makes what I went through less tragic. I know that is weird but I don't want to be consumed by anger. Teri > Teri, I never connected my constant second guessing to being a KO, but I too replay every conversation and interaction with people. I feel doubly exhausted at night because it's like I've had to sit through my day again on rewind, analyzing what I said, if it was right... > My mom is incredibly talented too, it's just so heartbreaking to see someone so injured inside. > > > > > > Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I had never put it > > together before, but you are right. > > I can never tell my mother what really happens in my life or my sons life. > > > > If I succeed, she is threatened. If I am close to my Dad or my brothers she is > > threatened. > > > > If I fail, she if offended. Or I am lectured about how she would have done it. > > > > Why is it at 57 I am only now seeing this? > > I have beaten myself up for decade after decade trying to establish a > > relationship. I have always seen myself as the problem. > > Oh, I knew she had issues but I felt, if only I could ... fill in the blank, it > > would be okay. > > > > So now I know it won't happen, it can't change or has a miniscule chance of > > changing. > > > > My mom is so very smart and talented, yet so very fraile and damaged. What a > > waste of potential. > > > > And what a hard road back out of the rabbit hole. Every word in every > > relationship I have, I second guess. > > I constantly ask myself if I offended, said the wrong thing. I wake up at night > > with my brain reliving probably totally inconsequencial conversations, wondering > > what I did wrong. > > > > The only normality you know is how you were raised so you fall into > > relationships with other BPDs or Kids of; and so the cycle goes. > > > > > > How do I protect my son from this insanity. It is probably to late. He is 20+. > > I have to hope that love will make a difference, that compassion and forgiveness > > can win the day and change at least the worst of the damage. > > I want to believe that. I don't understand why someone would chose to hurt some > > one they love. > > > > Teri > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > Sent: Fri, April 6, 2012 9:26:39 AM > > Subject: Never tell them anything > > > >  > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > > support. > > > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > > happens, does it? > > > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > > here? > > > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > > to take joy in her win! > > > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > > her. And we lose once more. > > > > Doug > > > > > > Wow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Doug, here I go second guessing my words. This compassion is I think a way of saying-- it was her not me. Not getting angry is a way of saying " I am better " than that. I lament what I could have had. You are helping me burry that sorrow. Teri > Thank you. > > I think I constantly remind myself of my moms illness and excuse it because some how that makes what I went through less tragic. I know that is weird but I don't want to be consumed by anger. > > Teri > > > > > Teri, I never connected my constant second guessing to being a KO, but I too replay every conversation and interaction with people. I feel doubly exhausted at night because it's like I've had to sit through my day again on rewind, analyzing what I said, if it was right... > > My mom is incredibly talented too, it's just so heartbreaking to see someone so injured inside. > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I had never put it > > > together before, but you are right. > > > I can never tell my mother what really happens in my life or my sons life. > > > > > > If I succeed, she is threatened. If I am close to my Dad or my brothers she is > > > threatened. > > > > > > If I fail, she if offended. Or I am lectured about how she would have done it. > > > > > > Why is it at 57 I am only now seeing this? > > > I have beaten myself up for decade after decade trying to establish a > > > relationship. I have always seen myself as the problem. > > > Oh, I knew she had issues but I felt, if only I could ... fill in the blank, it > > > would be okay. > > > > > > So now I know it won't happen, it can't change or has a miniscule chance of > > > changing. > > > > > > My mom is so very smart and talented, yet so very fraile and damaged. What a > > > waste of potential. > > > > > > And what a hard road back out of the rabbit hole. Every word in every > > > relationship I have, I second guess. > > > I constantly ask myself if I offended, said the wrong thing. I wake up at night > > > with my brain reliving probably totally inconsequencial conversations, wondering > > > what I did wrong. > > > > > > The only normality you know is how you were raised so you fall into > > > relationships with other BPDs or Kids of; and so the cycle goes. > > > > > > > > > How do I protect my son from this insanity. It is probably to late. He is 20+. > > > I have to hope that love will make a difference, that compassion and forgiveness > > > can win the day and change at least the worst of the damage. > > > I want to believe that. I don't understand why someone would chose to hurt some > > > one they love. > > > > > > Teri > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > > > Sent: Fri, April 6, 2012 9:26:39 AM > > > Subject: Never tell them anything > > > > > >  > > > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > > > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > > > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > > > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > > > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > > > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > > > support. > > > > > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > > > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > > > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > > > happens, does it? > > > > > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > > > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > > > > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > > > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > > > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > > > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > > > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > > > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > > > here? > > > > > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > > > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > > > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > > > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > > > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > > > > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > > > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > > > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > > > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > > > to take joy in her win! > > > > > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > > > her. And we lose once more. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > Wow > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 OMG, this is so true, so well said, and so f'ing sad. HC > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > support. > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > happens, does it? > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > here? > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > to take joy in her win! > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > her. And we lose once more. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I'm new here and reading this as my first look at this group almost brought me to my emotional knees. My heart keeps repeating, 'I'm not alone, it's not me' and I weep inside for all the pain I've taken as her favorite 'whipping post' How incredibly destructive she has been to me, my life. The last time I saw my Nada for a conversation, she had spent about 45 minutes telling my husband how horrible I was that I didn't appreciate anyone else in my life, that I charmed them and told them I loved them to just use them up and then dump them, I was a liar how couldn't be trusted........heard at least 50,0000 times before......then she said something I hadn't. She told him she had proof of this being true. and described how for decades every time she and I would have a conversation, I would tell her several times I loved her. Then she sat back with triumph on her face and said, 'now who does that? who would repeatedly say it over and over, but a liar " . I looked at her and said, ' I love my life and I love who I am and I don't care what anyone else thinks'. We haven't spoken since.......(1st week of last Dec) But ..... She is now maneuvering to find a way back into my life. Right now, I just will not agree to that. I can't find within myself where that would be anything but destructive to both me and my family. I've taken enough of other peoples and my own abuse. Enough..... I have a 12yr old daughter, I want her to have a grandmother but I don't trust my Nada enough to even allow her a visit without supervision to make sure that now that I have removed myself, she doesn't turn it on and use my daughter. yes I have compassion for her, I also have compassion for myself, my children, my husband, my friends........... not alone anymore.......thank you....... > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > support. > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > happens, does it? > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > here? > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > to take joy in her win! > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > her. And we lose once more. > > Doug > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Teri, it's not weird to want to forgive your mother for her mental illness, it is understandable and the reason so many of us, including myself were in denial that a mom could be such a momster even as I raged against her violations of me. Which brings me to my next point, my brother who is very co-dependent, never experiences anger - he is afraid of it. I think that allowing yourself to feel and express anger about the situation is healthy and releases the pent up emotions, especially if you are afraid of it. Obviously not at your mother, but in the privacy of your car, with a good therapist etc. He is a slave to his wife through his inability to speak his mind. Of course, I have had the opposite problem, veering towards counterdependency I need to control my displaced anger. Well, awareness is a step in the right direction. sigh. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The uncanny similarities in bpd behaviors never cease to amaze me. I experienced the exchanges that you described almost verbatim. I had to stop telling my nada when I'd get a compliment or a promotion, too. There was one promotion I was excited about (it meant a lot more money, basically) but it wasn't good enough for nada, so she ended up exaggerating my promotion to her friends and our relatives to such a degree that it was embarrassing. I found I had to explain to others at a family gathering that no, I wasn't running the division, I was simply a grade higher in mid-level management. Nada was mortified and claimed that I was being ugly and cruel to her because she put me in the position of telling the truth or shielding her from the consequences of her confabulations. So typical of her. So draining and unpleasant for me. Good grief... I'm so glad all that is behind me now, I don't have to deal with it anymore. There is at least some peace and healing for me now that my nada is gone. -Annie > > I am NC with my Nada (oh, how I love that name, let me count the ways...!)  - but I absolutely understand all that you are saying below about never telling your Nada ANYTHING, EVER. Anything you tell them - from things about the kids to random fact about your close friend she will hold against you, twist, regurgitate during a fight, throw in your face etc.. If I told her one day that a few friends in the office were complimenting my skirt you can actually see the jealous pain in my nada's face and she quickly switches the subject to a random topic like the weather or says " can you get me a skirt like that? " - somehow she actually thinks that the skirt will fill her deep, dark, holes - which it never, ever will. Jealousy, emptiness, depression cause her to not even want to hear anything nice about her own daughter. When I became a VP of the company I work at - 6 seconds after I told her she said " I wish you would continue to move-up and become > President. "  Nothing is ever enough. When I was a child I would show her father (my grandfather) a spelling test that I got a 98 on and he would say " where are the other two points? " - this is what my mother used to do to me/my kids as well. I will explain how well my kids are doing in school and without acknowledging their success she turns it around and says " Well you need to get them ahead, make sure they are reading every night, doing multiplication, going to museums, studying vocabulary words every night " etc... (my girls are a mere 5 and 7 years old). As my Nada vomits up things that happened 40 years ago it makes me reflect on how many times I had gotten burned by telling her things - never again!  The only way to win with Nada is by not talking to her, not getting caught up in her vicitm-like tendencies - always the victim - its nauseating. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Welcome to the Group, eb. I too found it so validating and overwhelming (in a good way) to discover that I wasn't the only one who had experienced these kinds of abusive, destructive, toxic behaviors from my own mother. It took a while but I finally began to accept that I did not cause my mother to treat me that way, I didn't deserve to be treated that way, and I couldn't cure my mother or change her. And, it was OK to protect myself from further abuse and damage. You sound like a good mom to me RE your desire to not expose your own daughter to the abusive behaviors inflicted on you by your bpd mother. If your bpd mother treats you with contempt and disrespect in front of your child, then in my opinion its wise to avoid exposing your daughter to that. Your instincts are right on target. I hope you gain much peace and healing here. -Annie > > > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > > support. > > > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > > happens, does it? > > > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > > here? > > > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > > to take joy in her win! > > > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > > her. And we lose once more. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Your instincts are correct. As I have often said on this board, my opinion is that you never, ever, under any circumstances whatever, leave a child with a BP grandparent, or any BP. All the shit you endured, all the FOG and manipulation that caused you to grow to adulthood with a train of baggage to carry, and years of therapy to function? Remember all that stuff? Well now she has had a couple of decades to perfect her technique. We all yearn for the normal family stuff. We would love to have a normal mom. We would love our kids to have a grandmother. But thier grandmother is a BP. And she will be to them just as she was to us, and worse. We have the advantage of having figured out Granny s wierdness. Our kids do not. I experienced having my kids hurt and disappointed time and time again by my mom. She would come to our house for a visit, drop off her dog ( ! Yep ) and her bags, breeze in for a bit, then head out to visit her friends. She would get in so late the kids were in bed, get up so late they were at school, then weep as she was leaving that she just never got to spend any time with them. When my kids were grown, I tried to invite her to come to family holidays or meals, and she hid in her hermit/victim roles. She would actually say, I ll come if I can, but I m probably going to be sick that day! As far as they were concerned, they did not have a grandmother. This would be the case if your mom had died at an early age. Not to sound cruel, but the fact is that given the choice of a dead granny they never met, or a BP granny that they try to sort out, they are better off with no granny. It is sad, but all the good things we yearn for our kids to have from a granny will be negated by all the BP stuff she will throw at them Truth: as much as we wish our kids to have a granny to love and pamper them, for a BP grandchildren, just like children, exist only to fill thier needs. We had no choice, since we lived with her. They do have a choice, and quickly write her off as they realize ( kids are sharp) what the story is. When they do, and they are not fulfilliing her needs, she will turn on them. It is part of the loss of having a BP mom. Grieve and accept it. Your kids are better off without a granny, unless she gets treatment and improves first. Doug > > > > > > A few comments on other folks posts got me thinking in this vein and I > > thought it deserved reflection. We come to learn, after a time, that > > it is rarely safe to tell our BP parent anything of signifigance. That > > is one of the pains of our status as KO s. Naturally we want to tell > > our parents about promotions at work, raises, awards to our kids, soccer > > games , band concerts, or troubles for which we would love thier > > support. > > > > There is always a part of us that says maybe this time she will react > > normally. Maybe, just this once, I ll get to actually have my mom cheer > > with me for something good, console me on something bad. But it never > > happens, does it? > > > > If we step back for a moment from being Nada s kid, and just look in > > terms of what we have learned about BPD, it all makes sense. > > > > Everything is about her. We exist as an extension of her fragile, yet > > inflated ego. So if we get a raise, she can t cheer, she will become a > > victim and manipulate us for money. If we are hurting, it is a threat > > to her so she will come up with stories more pitiful to make her the > > greater victim, then in a twisted way, the hero. See? I hurt worse than > > you do, so of course I understand. Don t you feel better because I was > > here? > > > > If we try to share about our kids, she will either make their success > > about her, or reject or hurt them in some way if they have figured out > > all about Granny and push her away. She might regale them and us with > > stories of her " adopted grandkids " whose families have not, yet, > > discovered her for what she is and pushed her away. > > > > So sadly, we can never share the important stuff. We can t let her > > share in our joys, or our pains, or any of the milestones of life. We > > find quickly that we don t get the normal response we want, and she will > > somehow find a way to steal it from us and make it hers, then expect us > > to take joy in her win! > > > > So we talk about the weather. And she tells us how badly it depressed > > her. And we lose once more. > > > > Doug > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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