Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 , Well said! I also do this dance at work, but you are right it is different at home - but I do do this dance. I do think we too need to see that we put up walls and have our share in this give and take, even if our reality is so very different from other's reality. When I let my wall down some when I am with nada(when it feels safe-we are talking specific moments here)I can actually share some endearing moments with her and can tell she gets that I am here for her, just in my own new way (the boundries thing).(Keep in mind my nada is usually the Queen or Waif, rarely do I experience the Witch.) We never articulate that, it just is. And perhaps this is all in my head - but that's all we have, right? Anyway - these days, on my best days, I feel more empowered and alive and I see it like this: I used to be in a room with the lights off and someone moved the furniture all around on me, and I was always confused, in the dark and bumping into things, and getting hurt. Now the furniture is still rearranged, but the lights are on and I may not always like the arrangement, but I get hurt a lot less and I can see much better (at least most days). Cheers! > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 All I know is that in my own view of things, its OK to protect and defend yourself from someone who has demonstrated repeatedly that they either want to hurt you or can't help hurting you. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes and says or does something thoughtless occasionally, but a *repetitive pattern* of behavior directed at you that is harmful or hurtful toward you... that's different. That's more likely to be deliberate and malicious. My own personal opinion (not an irrefutable fact) is that deliberately malicious individuals are highly likely to have personality disorder: either borderline pd, or narcissistic pd, or antisocial pd, or the Uber-pd: psychopathy (aka " sociopathy " .) Its OK to pull your hand away from a hot stove. It doesn't make you a bad person to protect your hand from a hot stove, so, I feel that it doesn't make me a bad person to withdraw myself physically or emotionally (or both) from a hurtful, harmful person... even if that person happens to have given birth to me and raised me. I had to go No Contact with my mother a few years ago, for the sake of my own mental and physical health. I feel pity for my mother; she has always been an empty and unhappy person, but in her misery she has also done me great emotional harm, and didn't seem to care that she hurt me and continued to hurt me. Now that she has slipped into full-blown dementia, I feel I can pity her safely. I also think its OK to have degrees of intimacy with other people; I see intimacy as a gradation of grays instead of black and white. For me, office setting = courteous and professional, but not intimate. I have different degrees of intimacy with different friends, and I'm very close to or emotionally intimate with only a couple of people in my life. Well, to keep from going on and on, I'll close my post now. But bottom line: In my own personal opinion its OK and morally neutral to do what we have to do to protect ourselves and our children and our spouse from harmful people. As long as one isn't being actively, deliberately malicious with intent to harm another person, as long as you're just being protective or in a defensive mode toward someone who has demonstrated repeatedly that they intend you harm, then, I personally have absolutely no issue with doing what it takes to protect and defend yourself and your loved ones. -Annie > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 , This post reminds me of what is, for me, one of the greatest benefits of being NC. When I was in touch with my nada, not one communication that I had with her was ever fully truthful. I'm a very spiritual and ethical person, and that was extremely difficult for me. The problem was, literally everything she said or did was either extremely hurtful, immoral/ignorant/prejudiced, obscenely conceited, paranoid, --well, you all get the picture. But she would pitch such an intense, feverish, life-and-death protest, if I dared to object to anything she said or did, that I was effectively manipulated into just saying what she wanted to hear, constantly, and NEVER saying what I actually thought, just in order to be in her presence. I do not like myself for having done this. Also, nada had intimately abused and assaulted me my whole life, so never did I actually WANT to be in her presence for even one second. Just being near her, at all, was a lie. I am so very 'spoiled' these days in that I get to be entirely authentic. Yes, I do filter as appropriate for work, to be considerate of friends, etc--but if I am upset about something, I get to express it now, and resolve it the normal, healthy human way. It's astoundingly refreshing! > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 You put this insight so well, Charlotte. This concept, that it was never possible for me to be my authentic self around my nada... I feel this so deeply. My nada had to be mirrored exactly, no deviations, in order to enjoy being around me; so being inauthentic, being nothing more or less than a mirror for my nada, that was my " normal. " So as I aged, it became more and more difficult for me to enjoy being around my nada for even a little while... which got to the extreme point, rather recently, when just hearing her voice on the phone made me physically ill. Thanks for posting that, I'm going to keep that one in my files to refer to. -Annie > > > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi everyone, I feel like I've gotten to so many points of going from LC to NC with my Nada. I think she senses when it's about to happen so flips into the sad, pitiful, I'm sorry don't leave modes and I react by taking it all back. I think if I do this I would need to do it slowly but I really don't want to. Since I haven't actually lived with my Nada since the middle of my senior year of high school, I think I forget the progressively mean aspect of her. Now since I'm not around her mood swings 24/7, I see the nice side and easy to make laugh side of her or the snappy I have a lot to say to you side or the I'm deeply depressed and I'm calling myself. Since I've been back for summer my willingness to be in more contact with her as increased and since I've met boyfriend who is a recovered borderline. I think my love for him is making me want to be closer to her but they are no where near the same people. To wrap this up, I'm just realizing that it's because of those factors which are pushing me closer to her. Once I return to school 200 miles in a month, I wonder what will happen though. Lately I've been telling myself that I need to accept that she may be gone at any time, no matter how I try to please her while I'm around. -namaste ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Play the Part? Â I have been thinking about going from LC to NC because I can't be myself around my nada and fada...I cannot let them in on any details of my life because they will only use it against me later, or if it does not line up with their way of thinking, they will flip their preverbal shit. I am not willing to continue to " walk on eggshells " (Ha--did you get that?) for their sake. I honestly don't know that I am " getting anything " from them emotionally except for stress, worry, confusion, anger, attacks, etc...I'm not really exactly sure how all of this works, but I know that I need to figure out who my authentic self is because right now I have no idea.... > > > > > > > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > > > > > > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > > > > > > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > > > > > > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > > > > > > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 It sounds like you are finding your way with your nada and that is good. It is so individual and complicated. I am glad you feel closer to her now and can enjoy her some. I too can't imagine going NC with my nada, or even my BP MIL. I definately have to set boundries and protect myself and the family and have done a lot of work, and continue to, in this area. But I do feel I am fortunate that I have really been spared much of the witch in my nada. Best to you. > > > > > > > > > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > > > > > > > > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > > > > > > > > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > > > > > > > > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Anne, I can relate to all of this. I cause so much trouble in my family of origin whenever I tell the truth, about anything. Didn't understand what that was about until recently. I had like a secret life as a teen, all of we kids did. It was like expected, I often got the vibe that they didn't want the truth. Got used to it. But I of all of the kids seemed to still share enough that I felt as if my parents (especially my nada) was almost afraid of me talking those times. So confusing! I too have a wonderful husband and we really trust one another and can be ourselves with one another and he gets me and even puts up with me feeling like I need to still see my family, even though it is hard on our family. I set better boundries now which helps. OFten it isn't all of us anymore, just me that goes to family stuff. I just can't make my young adult kids or husband go unless they want to. And I don't go as often as I know my nada thinks I should. And I always get an earful about how much my sister and BIL do for nada and how often she sees them, etc. I think she thinks by telling me this I will be spured into sibling rivalry and come see her more? But I can't be truthful about why because I have tried and I get told it isn't that way orthat that's not what other's mean, and I pay big time with the emotional punishment. So it works better if I just " play the part " of being cordial and accomodating and surfacy so I can be around them a bit. I can't go deep or authentic much cause it causes WWIII! Don't know how long this will be enough or needed by me. I have very mixed feelings about that. Just taking it one day at a time. > > > > > > writes: " when we are with our family of origin ... and they are very rigid and controlling , you can be your authentic self until it hurts too much, then it is okay to " play the part " that they feel comfortable with you being. " > > > > > > Response: , you make me think about my tendency to think in terms of " all or nothing " , " black and white " , " either or " . I still find it hard to see the gray in a situation. When at work, we all have to tone down the self and " play the part " when we find ourselves in a dysfunctional environment. I am sure I am not the only one who has seen dysfunction in the workplace. At work we have our roles, but we also are ourselves. At work we bounce back and forth between role and self all the time. > > > > > > It is different when at home, but your therapist's words are ringing in my head. I think that I might be able to learn to see more gray in my relationship with my mother, ex-wife, and step mother. Maybe, now that I have achieved my identity, I can learn to be less rigid with my boundaries. I am not saying relax my boundaries, just be willing to step over to the other side of my boundaries sometimes to relieve the tension. > > > > > > I am just thinking out loud here, but maybe boundaries sometimes become walls. Healthy boundaries may need to be permeable toward the self, not rigid prison walls between those that have hurt us. > > > > > > Anyone have any insight into this? I wonder what the Dali Lama would say? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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