Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hi. I'm not so sure it's an irrational fear. My FOO has been known to hire private investigators to follow me and my husband (and possibly to gain access to my online activities, as well, although I don't really have solid proof of that). I don't know your mother well enough to say that she would do that. I just know that mine would! I wish I had some real advice to give you. I'm kind of struggling with this, as well, at the moment. Unfortunately, my older daughter loves her grandparents, and I don't want to deprive her of that contact. She's the " all-good " one, so I'm assuming she's safe for now, but I've already told them that my younger daughter will not be staying alone with them. I've heard nada cuss her out myself (for crying when she was still an infant, as I mentioned in an earlier post). The way I see it, I have to protect my daughter. I am her mother, and my main obligation is to her - not to any sick feeling of entitlement nada may have. Your son needs you to be strong for him and stick up for him. It sounds like he, for one, won't really care that you're keeping him from seeing her if she makes him cry like that! ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: Hi I'm new.  Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I don't think the fear of your nada finding this is at all irrational. (Nada is the name we give to our unmotherly mothers.) Nadas often like to snoop where they don't belong. I think the way to say " no " without feeling like crap is to learn to accept that you have good acceptable reasons for doing so and you have the right to make your own choices. The crap feeling generally comes out of guilt in my experience. There's no good reason to feel guilty though. You don't have to do things just because your mother wants them to do them. Normal mothers don't expect their children to give in to their every demand. Normal adult children don't see anything wrong with not doing so. Many of us have been taught that we are somehow responsible for our nada's feelings and have to do everything they want. That's not the way normal families work. There is no reason for you to feel guilty for making the choices you think best. If you don't want your children to stay with her, that's up to you, not her. If you keep in mind that your first responsibility is to your children, that may help prevent you from feeling guilt when you tell her no. It may also help to set up and enforce some boundaries. You don't have to let her treat you badly. You mention that she won't let up. How do you react when she acts that way? You can't change her behavior but you can change how you react to her behavior. To improve things, you need to react in ways that don't feed into and encourage her bad behavior. Nadas often derive some enjoyment out of making other people upset, so trying to stay calm can help. Do you keep trying to justify your choices to her? If so, stop that. Firmly tell her once that you aren't going to do what she wants. You can choose to tell her why, or you can choose not to explain yourself. She isn't entitled to any additional explanation if you don't want to give it. After you've told her your answer, when she tries to bring up the subject again, I suggest telling her you're not willing to discuss the subject any more. When she persists, which she almost certainly will, you can try changing the subject. Maybe that will work. More likely it won't. In that case, you can choose to end the conversation. Refusing to continue listening to my nada's inappropriate talk has been the best thing I've ever done where she's concerned. Sometimes it makes visits and phone conversations very short, but if she wants our contact to be longer, all she has to do is stop discussing forbidden topics. (Mostly, that means not bad-mouthing me, my sister, or various other relatives.) If your son screamed and cried for hours after coming home from visiting her, it doesn't seem likely that he's going to view you as evil for not letting him visit again. If she's telling him that you're evil for not letting him stay overnight with her, then you may need to stop letting them talk without your supervision. Children can be told things like " grandma isn't well and we need to stay away from her right now " . As they get older you can fill in more information about what the problem is. At 12:25 PM 04/10/2012 anonymousa56 wrote: >Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have >an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read >it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline >mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my >children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on >it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret >it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came >home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I >have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with >her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have >been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her >no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really >just can't believe I thought that she was different since I >moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one >night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a >daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil >daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I >really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear >that as well. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 You have a lot of conflict here--do you be a good mother, a good daughter, or true to yourself? What do all those things mean in light of your mother being BPD. A good, competent therapist could help you figure all these boundaries out. I cannot tell you how *I* think you should live your life. And certainly whatever choices you make will have negative consequences: either your children will suffer at nada's knees or nada will make you suffer for daring to set boundaries. Maybe both. For me, my children always came first, and yet I made mistakes involving them with my mother. Luckily, they stuck together when nada tried to wedge them apart, and my kids told me all about nada's manipulations when they came home to me. > > Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hi anon56, Welcome to the Group. Your instincts are worth listening to. Your bpd mother (or " nada " ) has done something really mean or scary to your little boy and traumatized him. He doesn't deserve to be subjected to that kind of cruelty again, and you are the only one who can protect him from your nada. So, good on you for promising him that he never has to spend the night with his monster of a grandmother again. Sometimes I suggest to KOs, (us adult Kids Of bpd parents) that when we are really terrified of our bpd parent and let them intimidate us, that we replace the fear with real anger. Your mother did something horrible to your little boy; let that make you really ANGRY. I mean rearing up on your hind legs like a mother bear angry, and ROAR at her the next time she dares criticize you for not knuckling under to her demands. How DARE she call YOU " evil " ??!! She is the one who was behaving in an evil way toward a little helpless child and scared the crap out of him!! She is " projecting " her own traits and characteristics onto you, but you don't have to accept that. Think of how you would feel if you walked in the room and saw your mother repeatedly torturing a little puppy or kitten. The puppy is shrieking in pain and fear because your mother is doing something awful to it. Would that make you angry enough to rush over, push your mother away and snatch up the puppy and protect it? For some reason, people in general seem to be much more assertive and righteously outraged when they see little animals being mistreated. My suggestion is that its OK to feel that level of outrage and to say so when its a little child being mistreated. You can do this. You are not a child anymore, and so you don't have to be physically afraid of your bpd mom any longer. Her opinion about you and your mothering isn't important. If she gets angry at you and calls you names, so what? You can gather up your little one and just leave! You actually have ALL the power now, and your mother has none; its just that your pd mother has trained you from birth to not believe that you have ANY power where she is concerned. It felt to me like my mother was a Witch who cast a spell on me to never be assertive with her, never criticize her or set boundaries with her or stand up to her. So, I ended up going totally No Contact with her, instead. You are like Dorothy who actually can go home any time you wish to, you only have to believe it. If you stand up to the Witch, she has no power to harm you, she only has whatever power *you* give her to do that. So, maybe think about letting yourself get angry, and taking your power back. An example: my Sister had to get very Assertive with our bpd/npd mother ( " nada " ) when nada would NOT stop criticizing my Sister's parenting choices and decisions in front of my Sister's little boy. Sister had repeatedly, out of deference, asked our nada to please discuss those things with her in private, but our nada was apparently more interested in competing with Sister and undermining Sister's parental authority with her own child. So finally, Sister had enough. Nada did this again (denigrating Sister's parenting) in Sister's car, with her little boy in the back seat and nada in the front passenger's seat, and Sister actually pulled over to the emergency lane at the side of the highway and told nada in a calm but very serious tone to get out of the car, that she could walk the rest of the way home if she couldn't respect Sister's request and kept undermining her in front of her child. Nada was shocked! And she knew Sister meant it. And nada was scared of walking along the side of the highway for a mile or two even though it was daytime, plus it was rather humiliating, so nada meekly agreed to comply with Sister's boundary. But Sister had to re-assert herself many times with our nada on other similar issues. Our nada was very, very domineering and very, very stubborn. I had to take a stand or two with our nada myself, but not over anything as serious as what your mother has done. So, those are just some ideas to mull over; you are the only one who can decide what will or won't work for you, in your individual circumstances. -Annie > > Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I would love to go to a therapist, but we just don't have the money right now. My children will always be first priority. I just doubt myself so much. Like maybe it's a phase he's going through and I'm just trying to keep him from her or something. I feel crazy, like I cannot make a right decision about anything. It was easy to just go along with her and suffer through/ ignore what I had to until I had kids. Now I can't let them just suffer through her BPD simply because it's easier than standing up to her. I just feel so lost and a little crazy. > > > > Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 True, children do go through phases, but you've got to trust your maternal instincts. They're stronger than you might think. You're not crazy. She's the one with the problem - and the pattern of aberrant behavior. Parenting is not easy - not for anyone, and especially not for people like us who've had no real, true examples of what good parents are. You're right. You can't let your children suffer through her BPD just because it's easier. This is a lesson I'm having to learn myself and I pray that, one day, I'll have the strength to say " no " to my nada. Well, I already have in some ways, but in others, I'm still her little slave. I will fight her for my children, though. She will NOT do to them what she's done to me! You're not alone. I'm going through it too. I sympathize with you 100 percent! ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:43 AM Subject: Re: Hi I'm new.  I would love to go to a therapist, but we just don't have the money right now. My children will always be first priority. I just doubt myself so much. Like maybe it's a phase he's going through and I'm just trying to keep him from her or something. I feel crazy, like I cannot make a right decision about anything. It was easy to just go along with her and suffer through/ ignore what I had to until I had kids. Now I can't let them just suffer through her BPD simply because it's easier than standing up to her. I just feel so lost and a little crazy. > > > > Hello, I'm new here. I'm really scared to post because I have an irrational fear that my mother will find this and read it. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a borderline mother no, without feeling like crap? I do not want my children to stay with her overnight and she will not let up on it. I have given in a few times and I almost always regret it. My son recently spent one night with her and when he came home he cried and screamed for 3 hours while clinging to me. I have really messed up and I know that I cannot leave him with her again and I made a promise to him that I wouldn't. I have been physically sick with stress at the thought of telling her no from now on though. I always fall for her crap, I really just can't believe I thought that she was different since I moved out, and I believed that she could be normal for one night. I feel like a failure as a mother and as a daughter. Any advice? Oh, also in her eyes, I'm the evil daughter that is keeping her from her wonderful grandkids...I really don't want my children to view me that way so I fear that as well. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 You have been taught since birth that your feelings and perceptions don't matter, and that you're only a " good girl " when you are doing what your mother wants. But it's not true. Listen to yourself. You know it isn't safe for your child. Your job now is to protect your CHILD's feelings, not your mother's. As long as he is safe, who the hell cares what she thinks? She will throw a tantrum, she will call you names, she will wail and cry and throw herself around, because she wants to USE your baby to feel good about herself--not because she actually loves him. YOU are the parent now. Say no. And you don't have to give a reason if you don't want to. It may feel crappy at first, but the more you do it the easier it gets and the better you feel. I remember how terrifying it was the first time I told my parents that they will never be alone with my children again because I didn't trust them. But every boundary since then has been that much easier. Sveta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 What you are saying reminds me a lot of myself. I never questioned nada or her ways before, I usually just went along. Until I had kids of my own. Suddenly I realized that I would hate myself if I let my children grow up as I had. Giving them a safe, solid foundation became my most important goal. > > I would love to go to a therapist, but we just don't have the money right now. > > My children will always be first priority. I just doubt myself so much. Like maybe it's a phase he's going through and I'm just trying to keep him from her or something. I feel crazy, like I cannot make a right decision about anything. It was easy to just go along with her and suffer through/ ignore what I had to until I had kids. Now I can't let them just suffer through her BPD simply because it's easier than standing up to her. I just feel so lost and a little crazy. > > --- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " echobabe_is_free " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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