Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters – a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point – he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 " Grandparents' rights " mostly don't exist where intact families are concerned. Depending on where you live, they may not exist at all. Where they do exist, they typically apply to instances where one parent has died or there's been a divorce and the parents of the non-custodial parent don't want their relationship with the children ended by the custodial parent. Typically, the grandparents in question have to show that there is an existing good relationship between them and the children. If you're worried about them trying to claim grandparents' rights at some point, it seems to me that ensuring that there isn't an ongoing good relationship sooner rather than later is in order. I'd also recommend finding out what the laws where you live have to say about it. Knowledge is power where things like this are concerned. If you know what is true, then no one can use threats of unrealistic lawsuits to push you into doing things you don't want to do. If you see signs of your nada trying to enmesh herself with your older daughter, I'd put a stop to that ASAP. Being an " all-good " child does not make a child safe in my opinion. It leaves the child wide-open to the mind games that nadas play. Nadas can " love " in very emotionally abusive ways. For example, in the process of telling your daughter how good she is, your nada might compare her to you and/or to her sister in unhealthy ways, trying to alienate her from the rest of the family. " You're so good. You're not like your mother who gave me so much trouble or your sister who's terrible. " Hearing that kind of stuff over and over can really screw a kid up. If she's intentionally calling your daughter by your name, that's definitely creepy. My nada has a history of calling my much younger sister by my name. I've never been sure what is going on in her head when she does that. It may be that she doesn't see us as separate people and thus has a hard time bothering to distinguish us by using the right names. In my opinion, it is better for children to have no relationship with any grandparents than to allow them to be hurt by mentally ill grandparents. There are other ways for children to have healthy relationships with older people. Nursing homes and retirement villages are full of older people who don't have anyone visiting them. Getting involved in a program that matches up elderly people with young families could be beneficial to everyone concerned and help to replace some of what your nada will never be able to provide. At 07:42 AM 04/10/2012 strugglingmom2 wrote: >I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters a preschooler >and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad >and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that >now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in >contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, >thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > >I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, >simply because they're the only grandparents my children have >(DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant >with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance >from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much >attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to >let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > >The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do >no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am >starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my >preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the >fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a >second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say >creepy? > >DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when >she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her >crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with >her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my >daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my >daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone >together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't >let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, >if it weren't so tragic! > >I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it >before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying >that I'd probably regret it at some point he's now >second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, >if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " >and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible >legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm >trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. >I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right >decision. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 My DD is the golden grandchild, and my son is the black sheep. He's actually a very good kid. My daughter does not know how to say no to grandma, and so she appears to support nada and is rewarded with gifts, money, etc. My son on the other hand is ignored most of the time, and often scapegoated by nada. All the 'bad kid' grandkid stories are now attributed to him, even though he was not involved--nada is rewriting history to blame him! My kids are now 20 & 21. They both know nada is nuts. But I remember times when my son would cry to me " Why does Grandma hate me? " My mother always resented my second pregnancy, telling me she did not have enough room in her heart for 2--she was being truthful! The story you tell about your nada swearing at your youngest--I have witnessed my nada doing the same to her g-grandbaby in her crib-- " G-D Natasha! DON " T DO this to Grandma, damnit! " All the child was doing was tossing her toys out--trying to play a game. Hearing this new generation being denigrated just for being a kid, in the same tones I remember hearing, sort of put it all into perspective for me--I sailed down the stairs and rescued the baby, telling my mother she was being abusive and *I* was not going to stand for it this time around! I wish I could say that my mothering cancelled out all the evil that my mother put on my kids--but no, they both have scars and hurt. I spent A LOT of time talking my kids down, explaining how screwed up their grandma was. And that was before we knew about BPD. With the knowledge I have today, I would never let my mother have alone time again with my young children--she's too dangerous. > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters – a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point – he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Echobabe: OMG! Thank you for sharing your story. Nada resented my second pregnancy, too, although she made up excuses for it. " You don't have enough money to support yourself. How are you going to support ANOTHER baby? I guess your dad and I will just have to do it. " And on and on and on ... She even told me, " You should've had your tubes tied after the first baby. " (She had HER tubes tied after I was born - actually during the same surgery. I was a c-section baby. She said it wasn't her decision. The doctor told her to do it, but I wonder now ...  Especially since she told that story to my OB/GYN, and the doctor said, " Really? I've never heard of that before. That's really unprofessional. " Hmm.... ) And then I said, " Well, why don't you just tell me to abort THIS one? That's what you want, isn't it? " Ha! You should've seen the look on her face. That's really frightening that your mothering didn't compensate for her scars. This is a thought I've had myself regarding my children and their relationship with her. I can love them enough to make up for all the hurt she might cause them. But I guess I can't. Alone time with nada is just not a very good option! ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 5:34 PM Subject: Re: My children  My DD is the golden grandchild, and my son is the black sheep. He's actually a very good kid. My daughter does not know how to say no to grandma, and so she appears to support nada and is rewarded with gifts, money, etc. My son on the other hand is ignored most of the time, and often scapegoated by nada. All the 'bad kid' grandkid stories are now attributed to him, even though he was not involved--nada is rewriting history to blame him! My kids are now 20 & 21. They both know nada is nuts. But I remember times when my son would cry to me " Why does Grandma hate me? " My mother always resented my second pregnancy, telling me she did not have enough room in her heart for 2--she was being truthful! The story you tell about your nada swearing at your youngest--I have witnessed my nada doing the same to her g-grandbaby in her crib-- " G-D Natasha! DON " T DO this to Grandma, damnit! " All the child was doing was tossing her toys out--trying to play a game. Hearing this new generation being denigrated just for being a kid, in the same tones I remember hearing, sort of put it all into perspective for me--I sailed down the stairs and rescued the baby, telling my mother she was being abusive and *I* was not going to stand for it this time around! I wish I could say that my mothering cancelled out all the evil that my mother put on my kids--but no, they both have scars and hurt. I spent A LOT of time talking my kids down, explaining how screwed up their grandma was. And that was before we knew about BPD. With the knowledge I have today, I would never let my mother have alone time again with my young children--she's too dangerous. > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters – a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point – he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thanks, Katrina. I'll have to look into the laws and see what, exactly, could go on there. RE: The enmeshment. Nada has told me, on more than one occasion, how DD1 " feels " about different things - usually things that I do differently than nada. And these " feelings " are usually not positive ones! I just know that these emotions that are being expressed are not DD1's but nada's. So it may just be projection, not true enmeshment, but I'm still wary of it.  One really alarming thing I noticed yesterday was DD1 going around saying, " It's no use!, " if she couldn't get a toy to work the way she wanted it to, etc. She has NEVER heard that phrase come out of my mouth, and it sounds like something nada would say, although I'm almost always with them when they're together, and I can't recall her ever saying that. Maybe she has. I'm just not sure. Still, it sounded so depressing and fatalistic coming from a three-year-old's mouth. Scary! And I'm not entirely sure that nada calling DD1 by my name is intentional. It just kind of slips out, and she seems to always quickly correct it. It just creeps me out so much because I know what COULD be behind it. We do take DD1 to nursing homes frequently, and she LOVES it. So do the ones being visited, for the most part. There was one grouchy old lady who admonished me for letting DD1 run around (like a CHILD) and mumbled something about Satan. Reminded me so much of nada ... ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:46 PM Subject: Re: My children  " Grandparents' rights " mostly don't exist where intact families are concerned. Depending on where you live, they may not exist at all. Where they do exist, they typically apply to instances where one parent has died or there's been a divorce and the parents of the non-custodial parent don't want their relationship with the children ended by the custodial parent. Typically, the grandparents in question have to show that there is an existing good relationship between them and the children. If you're worried about them trying to claim grandparents' rights at some point, it seems to me that ensuring that there isn't an ongoing good relationship sooner rather than later is in order. I'd also recommend finding out what the laws where you live have to say about it. Knowledge is power where things like this are concerned. If you know what is true, then no one can use threats of unrealistic lawsuits to push you into doing things you don't want to do. If you see signs of your nada trying to enmesh herself with your older daughter, I'd put a stop to that ASAP. Being an " all-good " child does not make a child safe in my opinion. It leaves the child wide-open to the mind games that nadas play. Nadas can " love " in very emotionally abusive ways. For example, in the process of telling your daughter how good she is, your nada might compare her to you and/or to her sister in unhealthy ways, trying to alienate her from the rest of the family. " You're so good. You're not like your mother who gave me so much trouble or your sister who's terrible. " Hearing that kind of stuff over and over can really screw a kid up. If she's intentionally calling your daughter by your name, that's definitely creepy. My nada has a history of calling my much younger sister by my name. I've never been sure what is going on in her head when she does that. It may be that she doesn't see us as separate people and thus has a hard time bothering to distinguish us by using the right names. In my opinion, it is better for children to have no relationship with any grandparents than to allow them to be hurt by mentally ill grandparents. There are other ways for children to have healthy relationships with older people. Nursing homes and retirement villages are full of older people who don't have anyone visiting them. Getting involved in a program that matches up elderly people with young families could be beneficial to everyone concerned and help to replace some of what your nada will never be able to provide. At 07:42 AM 04/10/2012 strugglingmom2 wrote: >I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters  a preschooler >and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad >and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that >now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in >contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, >thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > >I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, >simply because they're the only grandparents my children have >(DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant >with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance >from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much >attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to >let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > >The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do >no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am >starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my >preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the >fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a >second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say >creepy? > >DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when >she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her >crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with >her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my >daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my >daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone >together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't >let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, >if it weren't so tragic! > >I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it >before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying >that I'd probably regret it at some point  he's now >second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, >if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " >and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible >legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm >trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. >I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right >decision. -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 You don't have to have an excuse for NC, but it sounds like you already have several REALLY good ones. Unless your mother has been raising your children for you, she wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court. Besides, even if she did go get an attorney, once she realizes that going to court means you will tell the truth about all of her behavior, she will probably change her mind pretty quick. You're the parent. Do whatever you have to do to protect your children. Sveta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Isn't it amazing that after a lifetime of horrible hurts from nada (like our 2nd pregnancies being loathsome to nada), we finally find a group here who share our history?? This list is a precious GIFT. My children would probably say they are richer for knowing their grandparents--it hasn't all been bad obviously. But I have done years of " deprogramming " after trips to their house, hours of letting them talk out things when they felt insulted or weirded out by the grandparent's behavior. One plus is my kids can spot a PD a mile away--they sense something is off in an adult. No, alone time with nada is a real bad idea. Think of it as leaving a 3 year old to babysit your babies. They simply do not have the capacity to provide balanced and emotionally mature care. And if something does occur and you try to find out what happened, don't count on getting a straight answer or accountability from a PD. > > Echobabe: > > OMG! Thank you for sharing your story. Nada resented my second pregnancy, too, although she made up excuses for it. " You don't have enough money to support yourself. How are you going to support ANOTHER baby? I guess your dad and I will just have to do it. " And on and on and on ... She even told me, " You should've had your tubes tied after the first baby. " (She had HER tubes tied after I was born - actually during the same surgery. I was a c-section baby. She said it wasn't her decision. The doctor told her to do it, but I wonder now ...  Especially since she told that story to my OB/GYN, and the doctor said, " Really? I've never heard of that before. That's really unprofessional. " Hmm.... ) And then I said, " Well, why don't you just tell me to abort THIS one? That's what you want, isn't it? " Ha! You should've seen the look on her face. > > That's really frightening that your mothering didn't compensate for her scars. This is a thought I've had myself regarding my children and their relationship with her. I can love them enough to make up for all the hurt she might cause them. But I guess I can't. Alone time with nada is just not a very good option! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 YES! The three-year-old babysitter thing is similar to what I've been thinking recently when it comes to nada's interactions with my ACTUAL three-year-old. She'll (nada, not DD1 - I feel like I have to make that distinction) pout and say, " Well, if you don't want to play with that, we'll go on with this, but I really wanted to show you that. " At which point, I will step in and say, " Mom (it's getting harder and harder to use that term), she doesn't want to play with that. She wants to do this, and IT'S OK! " And then nada usually storms out of the room (or at least leaves under the pretense of making lunch, or something like that). But at least DD1 is free to choose her own way to play. Hmm... That extra discernment of PDs might truly be a benefit ... At least maybe our children won't fall into the trap of marrying someone with a PD. Maybe ... ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:28 AM Subject: Re: My children  Isn't it amazing that after a lifetime of horrible hurts from nada (like our 2nd pregnancies being loathsome to nada), we finally find a group here who share our history?? This list is a precious GIFT. My children would probably say they are richer for knowing their grandparents--it hasn't all been bad obviously. But I have done years of " deprogramming " after trips to their house, hours of letting them talk out things when they felt insulted or weirded out by the grandparent's behavior. One plus is my kids can spot a PD a mile away--they sense something is off in an adult. No, alone time with nada is a real bad idea. Think of it as leaving a 3 year old to babysit your babies. They simply do not have the capacity to provide balanced and emotionally mature care. And if something does occur and you try to find out what happened, don't count on getting a straight answer or accountability from a PD. > > Echobabe: > > OMG! Thank you for sharing your story. Nada resented my second pregnancy, too, although she made up excuses for it. " You don't have enough money to support yourself. How are you going to support ANOTHER baby? I guess your dad and I will just have to do it. " And on and on and on ... She even told me, " You should've had your tubes tied after the first baby. " (She had HER tubes tied after I was born - actually during the same surgery. I was a c-section baby. She said it wasn't her decision. The doctor told her to do it, but I wonder now ...  Especially since she told that story to my OB/GYN, and the doctor said, " Really? I've never heard of that before. That's really unprofessional. " Hmm.... ) And then I said, " Well, why don't you just tell me to abort THIS one? That's what you want, isn't it? " Ha! You should've seen the look on her face. > > That's really frightening that your mothering didn't compensate for her scars. This is a thought I've had myself regarding my children and their relationship with her. I can love them enough to make up for all the hurt she might cause them. But I guess I can't. Alone time with nada is just not a very good option! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 " My mother always resented my second pregnancy " Wow, Echobabe and Alice -- my blood ran cold at seeing what you both shared about your nadas' rejection of your 2nd pregnancies. Same here. It was so, so hurtful....almost demonic. When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. They both told me how I had really f***ed it up this time, that NOW I was going to see how hard life is, how I could have messed things up. There I was -- THIRTY-SIX years old -- with my parents talking to me like I was a teenage mother (no offense to any one who has been or knows one; my point is just that I was very much an adult). I walked out of their house like I was in a fog, like a trance. They had verbally assaulted me together. I expected happiness at this good news and got hammered by them. I wrote my mother a long letter, telling her how she had devastated me. My father intercepted the letter and called me. He said, " I saw the letter you sent your mother. I'm not giving it to her. She's sick in the head and she'll go nuts if she sees it. " Back then, I didn't really know what to think. I avoided my parents as much as I could in passive ways. NOW, I see that it was all about HIM not wanting to deal with her wack-a-doo ways. Once again, I so cherish the support here from other KOs; I had for all these years thought only I could have parents so mean to say such things about a pregnancy. My kids and I visit nada once or twice a month. My husband begs me to let him drop them off at nada's when he needs to get work done but I tell him no way. It would have to be for a VERY short while or not at all. She starts off sugar and sweet but ends with a bitter aftertaste. My kids are 14 and 7. They know grandma is nice for short visits but have seen the harpy she becomes when under pressure or if she's perceiving their behavior in certain ways. Thanks again for sharing, Fiona > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yes, that need to constantly intervene between the PD and children is exactly what I mean--it gets so very tiresome. Add to that, if we were parentified as children, this activity only reinforces that role for us--which isn't real healthy for our own recovery. > > > > Echobabe: > > > > OMG! Thank you for sharing your story. Nada resented my second pregnancy, too, although she made up excuses for it. " You don't have enough money to support yourself. How are you going to support ANOTHER baby? I guess your dad and I will just have to do it. " And on and on and on ... She even told me, " You should've had your tubes tied after the first baby. " (She had HER tubes tied after I was born - actually during the same surgery. I was a c-section baby. She said it wasn't her decision. The doctor told her to do it, but I wonder now ...  Especially since she told that story to my OB/GYN, and the doctor said, " Really? I've never heard of that before. That's really unprofessional. " Hmm.... ) And then I said, " Well, why don't you just tell me to abort THIS one? That's what you want, isn't it? " Ha! You should've seen the look on her face. > > > > That's really frightening that your mothering didn't compensate for her scars. This is a thought I've had myself regarding my children and their relationship with her. I can love them enough to make up for all the hurt she might cause them. But I guess I can't. Alone time with nada is just not a very good option! > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Oh, Fiona! <<hugs>> We have suffered in silence on this one way too long. My parents were so resentful of baby #2 that they even refused to come to the hospital when he was born. The following months she tried to ignore him, but he learned to charm the room to finally get her attention. Yes, pregnancy in normal families is a joyous time, but not ours. Even those first pregnancies are full of *nada's* expectations, meddling and worries when it really wasn't about her at all. And yes, being treated like you are a kid without a brain in your head simply because you want to add to your family is completely nuts behavior! > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 > " When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. " > Yes! Yes! Yes! That is EXACTLY how nada acted! It was seriously, like, the worst thing ever! A sweet, innocent little baby! I knew it would be like that, though. I instinctively knew it the first time around, so I didn't tell them about the pregnancy at all - either one - until I was at least six months along. I wanted to have at least that long to actually enjoy my pregnancies. I thought I deserved that. Nada STILL holds that over my head. " You didn't even tell us you were pregnant until ... " And she even topped that recently with the, " And you didn't tell us you were pregnant the first time, and you LOST that baby! " (I miscarried early in the first trimester - before I even knew I was pregnant). As if telling HER would have caused that baby to live? Yeah, of course it would have. That loss still hurts after almost six years, and she STILL drags it up - probably because she KNOWS it hurts. B*+$%! ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:27 AM Subject: Re: My children  " My mother always resented my second pregnancy " Wow, Echobabe and Alice -- my blood ran cold at seeing what you both shared about your nadas' rejection of your 2nd pregnancies. Same here. It was so, so hurtful....almost demonic. When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. They both told me how I had really f***ed it up this time, that NOW I was going to see how hard life is, how I could have messed things up. There I was -- THIRTY-SIX years old -- with my parents talking to me like I was a teenage mother (no offense to any one who has been or knows one; my point is just that I was very much an adult). I walked out of their house like I was in a fog, like a trance. They had verbally assaulted me together. I expected happiness at this good news and got hammered by them. I wrote my mother a long letter, telling her how she had devastated me. My father intercepted the letter and called me. He said, " I saw the letter you sent your mother. I'm not giving it to her. She's sick in the head and she'll go nuts if she sees it. " Back then, I didn't really know what to think. I avoided my parents as much as I could in passive ways. NOW, I see that it was all about HIM not wanting to deal with her wack-a-doo ways. Once again, I so cherish the support here from other KOs; I had for all these years thought only I could have parents so mean to say such things about a pregnancy. My kids and I visit nada once or twice a month. My husband begs me to let him drop them off at nada's when he needs to get work done but I tell him no way. It would have to be for a VERY short while or not at all. She starts off sugar and sweet but ends with a bitter aftertaste. My kids are 14 and 7. They know grandma is nice for short visits but have seen the harpy she becomes when under pressure or if she's perceiving their behavior in certain ways. Thanks again for sharing, Fiona > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I dont understand why the nadas would react that way? Any theories other than they want evryone unhappy? Sent from my mobile device. > > " When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. " > > > Yes! Yes! Yes! That is EXACTLY how nada acted! It was seriously, like, the worst thing ever! A sweet, innocent little baby! > > I knew it would be like that, though. I instinctively knew it the first time around, so I didn't tell them about the pregnancy at all - either one - until I was at least six months along. I wanted to have at least that long to actually enjoy my pregnancies. I thought I deserved that. > > Nada STILL holds that over my head. " You didn't even tell us you were pregnant until ... " And she even topped that recently with the, " And you didn't tell us you were pregnant the first time, and you LOST that baby! " (I miscarried early in the first trimester - before I even knew I was pregnant). As if telling HER would have caused that baby to live? Yeah, of course it would have. That loss still hurts after almost six years, and she STILL drags it up - probably because she KNOWS it hurts. B*+$%! > > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: My children > > > > " My mother always resented my second pregnancy " > > Wow, Echobabe and Alice -- my blood ran cold at seeing what you both shared about your nadas' rejection of your 2nd pregnancies. > > Same here. It was so, so hurtful....almost demonic. > > When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. They both told me how I had really f***ed it up this time, that NOW I was going to see how hard life is, how I could have messed things up. There I was -- THIRTY-SIX years old -- with my parents talking to me like I was a teenage mother (no offense to any one who has been or knows one; my point is just that I was very much an adult). I walked out of their house like I was in a fog, like a trance. They had verbally assaulted me together. I expected happiness at this good news and got hammered by them. > > I wrote my mother a long letter, telling her how she had devastated me. My father intercepted the letter and called me. He said, " I saw the letter you sent your mother. I'm not giving it to her. She's sick in the head and she'll go nuts if she sees it. " > > Back then, I didn't really know what to think. I avoided my parents as much as I could in passive ways. NOW, I see that it was all about HIM not wanting to deal with her wack-a-doo ways. > > Once again, I so cherish the support here from other KOs; I had for all these years thought only I could have parents so mean to say such things about a pregnancy. > > My kids and I visit nada once or twice a month. My husband begs me to let him drop them off at nada's when he needs to get work done but I tell him no way. It would have to be for a VERY short while or not at all. She starts off sugar and sweet but ends with a bitter aftertaste. > > My kids are 14 and 7. They know grandma is nice for short visits but have seen the harpy she becomes when under pressure or if she's perceiving their behavior in certain ways. > > Thanks again for sharing, > > Fiona > > > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Wanting everyone unhappy is probably part of why they act that way, along with general refusal to accept that other people get to make their own choices. Nadas tend to get upset anytime we make choices without listening to their directions. Beyond that though, I think some nadas feel threatened when their children have babies because babies take a lot of time and attention and nadas want all the time and attention. Once a baby comes along, they have to compete with it for attention and they feel threatened by the attention it is getting. The baby is stealing what they think is rightfully theirs. How sad is it to feel threatened by a baby? I think the reason the second baby really upsets them is that they had unrealistic expectations of being able to exert control over the first baby but their experiences didn't match their desires and thus they know that the second one is going to be even worse as far as getting what they want goes. At 05:06 PM 04/12/2012 MK wrote: >I dont understand why the nadas would react that way? Any >theories other than they want evryone unhappy? -- Katrina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Thank you! I appreciate your explanation. I just couldnt imagine why theyd care so much! Sent from my mobile device. > Wanting everyone unhappy is probably part of why they act that > way, along with general refusal to accept that other people get > to make their own choices. Nadas tend to get upset anytime we > make choices without listening to their directions. > > Beyond that though, I think some nadas feel threatened when > their children have babies because babies take a lot of time and > attention and nadas want all the time and attention. Once a baby > comes along, they have to compete with it for attention and they > feel threatened by the attention it is getting. The baby is > stealing what they think is rightfully theirs. How sad is it to > feel threatened by a baby? I think the reason the second baby > really upsets them is that they had unrealistic expectations of > being able to exert control over the first baby but their > experiences didn't match their desires and thus they know that > the second one is going to be even worse as far as getting what > they want goes. > > At 05:06 PM 04/12/2012 MK wrote: > >I dont understand why the nadas would react that way? Any > >theories other than they want evryone unhappy? > > -- > Katrina > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 All, I echo your appreciation for this group where we're understood and our fears and trauma (yes, constant and relentless trauma) at the hands of our own parents is understood andand where we can safely move through the pain, anxiety and fear. Like yours, my nada completely bugged out when I was pregnant with my DS. She would insist on buying us baby things we neither needed nor wanted. She flew off the handle when I suggested checking out a freecycle crib, stating " MY baby will have a NEW crib!!! " When. When I calmly pointed out that this was OUR baby and not hers, she hung up on me, " punished " me with NC (a reward if anything), then picked out and bought a ridiculously expensive new crib that barely fit in DSs room. Shortly before his birth, she threatened to kill me (among other extremely hurtful acts and voicemails);I immediately went NC, changed the locks and my phone number. Nada attempted suicide and ended up in the psych ward for a month but I still stayed was haunted with a recurring nightmare that she broke into my house and stabbed my baby belly, killing us both. She then threatened (through my brother) to " sue " us for the cost of the crib if we didn't return it and reimburse her! HA He slept in that crib maybe once, for a nap if that. We coslept and still do often as he and I are insomniacs and have nightmares. I often wonder if the stress and fear she caused hurt him in utero, and it makes me sick to think of it. That was a little over 5 years ago. We are NC once again because her BPD and NPD remains untreated (she refuses to accept the diagnosis, typical) Now I have nightmares that she goes to my DSs preschool and takes him. I've provided the staff with a picture and clear instructions that he NEVER be allowed to go with her. I feel bad to say it, but sometimes I wish she would die so I wouldn't have to live with th FOG, but my T helps me see the damage to me is done (and we're working to repair it bit by bit); even dead she'd haunt me. But for my DS? He's to young to understand so I say " nadas not feeling well " . There's hope for him, I do my best to shield him and protect him. I'd rather he be angry with me for keeping them apart than angry and me later for letting her emotionally manipulate and batter him. The cycle has to stop. Love and light to us all. > > > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Taking a stand and creating boundaries is a very difficult and courageous thing to do when your bpd mother is so profoundly mentally ill that she would threaten to kill you, and you knew that she meant it because it traumatized you enough to have recurring nightmares about it. I'm so sorry you had to endure that kind of mistreatment. You are being a great mother to your little boy, by protecting him from someone who is that emotionally unstable, impulsive, disconnected with reality and dangerous, in my opinion. Kudos to you. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The first explanation that comes to mind is that BPD's are threatened by any change--they get super stressed and fearful. The second is best explained by 'splitting,' a common BPD behavior. My nada cannot share or love equally--she always has to split everyone and everything into either 'good' and deserving her love, or 'evil' and deserving her derision. She does this with her pets, her coworkers, her kids, etc. > > > > " When I told my parents about my 2nd pregnancy, they BOTH acted as though I had done something illegal or something despicable. " > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 " Nada STILL holds that over my head. " You didn't even tell us you were pregnant until ... " Same here. I didn't tell her about either pregnancy until I was 3 months along, for my own peace. Of course, she freaked that I didn't call her right after my husband and I had conceived! With baby #2, she called me---when I was 9 months pregnant---to scream at me about why *SHE* wasn't being allowed into the labor room. It was hilarious. Her behavior on the phone was answering her question! I'm sure we could all fill a tome with stories of our nadas' sick behavior during and after our pregnancies. > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 , I admire how you've stood up to your nada. My gosh, forcing a freaking crib on you! It's almost comical. I think our pregnancies clearly brought out a dark side in our nadas (if there could have been a darker side!). My sympathies are with you, esp with the nightmares you have about your child's safety. Good for you for alerting the school to your concerns. Fiona > > > > > > > > > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters †" a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > > > > > > > > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > > > > > > > > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > > > > > > > > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point †" he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 For those of us with PD parents, we understand that we would only regret MORE exposure to nada not less. sometimes our DH's and friends forget how abnormal they are, or just don't get it in the first place and they don't get it until they get to see it up close and personal a few times. Even then, they don't have the LONG history of abuse that helps them remember the abuse and know that it is not a matter of IF they will do something bad but WHEN! IF you had a normal parent and you were the one that was the problem due to being immature or whatever, then maybe someday you would regret it when you got your own head straight. This is NOT the case and if you have to, sit down and site specific examples of what your nada has done to you and to your children for your husband. that article about Narcisist Suck that Annie linked in my post " Summer vacation is coming " is good and might help to have him read that. If nothing else, remind him that he is your spouse and he needs to trust your judgement in this matter. C > > I have been blessed with two gorgeous daughters – a preschooler and a toddler. I was an only child, so I was both the all-bad and all-good child at different points in time. It seems that now that I'm married to DH (who isn't allowed to come in contact with nada or fada, and he's just fine with that, thanks!), I'm stuck in a permanent all-bad state. > > I didn't want to prevent nada from seeing her grandchildren, simply because they're the only grandparents my children have (DH's mother passed away soon after I found out I was pregnant with my first, and his father and stepmother live some distance from us and are too busy with their own lives to pay much attention to ours). Now I'm starting to question my decision to let my FOO have contact with my precious little girls. > > The older girl is the all-good child, fortunately. She can do no wrong, and nada " loves " her. I think, now, though, I am starting to see some signs of nada enmeshing with my preschooler, and I really want that to stop! Never mind the fact that she frequently calls DD1 by MY name, as if she had a second chance at raising the " perfect " daughter. Can we say creepy? > > DD2 is the all-bad child. Case in point: Some months ago, when she was still quite little, she was crying inconsolably in her crib. We were at nada's house. Nada was in the room alone with her (I was on my way in), and I overheard her telling my daughter, " Shut up, you little b*#% & ! " I immediately took my daughter away from her and have really never let them be alone together in a room again. And nada actually wonders WHY I won't let her be alone with my younger daughter! It would be funny, if it weren't so tragic! > > I've thought of going NC (actually, I seriously considered it before I ever got married, but DH advised me against it, saying that I'd probably regret it at some point – he's now second-guessing that piece of advice). I'm just so afraid that, if I do, nada and fada will sue us for " grandparents' rights, " and then our girls will be thrown in the middle of a terrible legal battle. And I don't want that. For the time being, I'm trying to maintain contact and protect my girls the best I can. I just wonder if, once again, I'm not quite making the right decision. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hi, I'm astonished at this thread bc of similarities with my own past experience & it brings back dreaded memories. I haven't posted on here for awhile (sometimes it's too painful & I have to shelve it & time contstraints). Buy, I'm really getting back into my recovery and I know I have to really face this stuff at some point. I had to comment on this topic/thread however and ask what is the deal with BPD grandmother's and the 2nd baby? I want to share my experience a bit, hope that's alright. I was a single parent for 10 years. I was in early recovery from alcoholism and early motherhood. I did not realized my Mother had a personality disorder (never diagnosed) until about 8 yrs. ago (13 years into my own recovery, when my kids' were preteens and my youngest was a baby). My kids are now 21 (boy), 19 (girl w/BPD traits I'm afraid), and 9 (girl). I was scapegoated (and this continues but I am aware of it, so it's different) in my family, which is really painful. Back then (20 + yrs. ago), I was clueless (I thought I was the problem). It took years of sobriety (and anger that would not go away in regards to NADA) and years of emotional abuse while I worked hard in recovery, to finally come to the conclusion she really was 'crazy', and it wan't me. She was my enabler for years (in childhood, adolescence, and as a young woman), and I thought we were " close " (not realizing unhealthy severe enmeshment, bc I knew no different. She was ecsatic with my first born. Right away I began to notice something was wrong (by the feelings I had in response to her interactions with my new baby - How I wish I would have known what I know now!! I believe I would have made far different choices, and years of pain may have been avoided. Sadly, no. And, my kids are now very affected by FOG and all the wonderful things that go along with BPD. It's sickening. There isn't much I can do about it (they are adults now), except focus on my own recovery and do things different with my youngest child (to protect her). When I told her I was pregnant w/2nd baby, she looked at me in disgust, and with much hatred said, " oh, how could you? " and stomped out of my lonely apartment. Nada ignored me the entire 9 months (I became severely depressed, during my 2nd pregnancy), while I am caring for my baby, mind you. Did she not even think to support the mother of her precious grdson, who she seemed to think I was depriving by having a 2nd child? I look at this now and see it for what it is (the opposite of love). Considering all of the facts, and how emotionally crippled & immature I was from being raised by this very sick woman, I find it to be abusieve (I felt ostracized and abandonded throughout). My anger did not surface until I was in labor, and she shows up pretending to be all happy and supportive, and 'showing the rest of the world' what a loving mother she is. I knew this was a lie and an act, because she had ignored me for the past 8 months! And, boy, you know how it is when you are in labor, you don't care what anybody thinks. I could not look at her, and did not want her near me, and I told her so. It was so different from my 1st baby, where she went through the lamaze classes w/me, and was my birthing partner (father left), and was very involved and supportive up unitl the day I made the mistake of telling her I was pg w/2nd baby. I feel bad that things were so horrible while I was carrying my beautiful daughter. I lived in fear that I would not want that baby. I felt so very alone. ONe of the happiest days of my life was the first time I saw her and held her, bc I knew for sure that I could and did love like I was supposed to, and I was thrilled. I just realized it probably was not a coincidence that I had this feeling of dread and fear threatening to overwhelm me during that pregnancy which coincided with NADA completely rejecting/abandoning/shaming me (her daughter). From about age 10 up I always had this feeling that she did not love me (sometimes I even believed she hated me), but I never understood why - I also grew up with the false belief that this was somehow my fault. I have complex PTSD, and it is hard to explain to people, bc on the surface I had a " good upbringin " , I was not physically neglected or abused. It was pervasive on-going lifelong emotional abuse from my primary caregiver, that no one else could see (thus I was the crazy acting out one). I just wish it hadn't taken so long for me to learn this and understand it enough to know what I needed to do (believe me I tried for years to figure out my " relationship " w/nada, in counseling, taking meds, with me always being the 'prolem'). Now I know different, and this is the only place I've found where others get it instantly (bc you've been through it as well). Lynn p.s. i hope this doesn't show my email? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (((((Lynn)))) Pregnancy can be such a hard time, even when you have a SO and support. Your mother really abandoned you. That must've been such a low time for you. I admire you for continuing with your recovery and connecting with your daughter despite everything you'd been through. You made a good point, that you think your mother perceived you were denying your son by having another child. I think that's the wacko reasoning my mother used as well. Something else I thought of as we've been discussing our nadas' rejection of the 2nd borns: **I** am a 2nd born, so what my parents' violent reaction to my pregnancy told me is that they felt like they really f***ed up having me. I know I'm reading into it, but still... I know what you mean about wishing you'd learned all this earlier. Me too!!! Looking back, I don't think I was ready to hear it, you know? I knew all I had to do was reach out and ask for help, get help, so I could figure out the dynamics of what was going on in my FOO, but I didn't want to ask. Thanks for sharing about the 2nd baby syndrome (yeah, what is UP with that??)! It's so good to know that other people get this. Fiona > > > Hi, I'm astonished at this thread bc of similarities with my own past experience & it brings back dreaded memories. I haven't posted on here for awhile (sometimes it's too painful & I have to shelve it & time contstraints). Buy, I'm really getting back into my recovery and I know I have to really face this stuff at some point. > > I had to comment on this topic/thread however and ask what is the deal with BPD grandmother's and the 2nd baby? I want to share my experience a bit, hope that's alright. > > I was a single parent for 10 years. I was in early recovery from alcoholism and early motherhood. I did not realized my Mother had a personality disorder (never diagnosed) until about 8 yrs. ago (13 years into my own recovery, when my kids' were preteens and my youngest was a baby). My kids are now 21 (boy), 19 (girl w/BPD traits I'm afraid), and 9 (girl). > > I was scapegoated (and this continues but I am aware of it, so it's different) in my family, which is really painful. > > Back then (20 + yrs. ago), I was clueless (I thought I was the problem). It took years of sobriety (and anger that would not go away in regards to NADA) and years of emotional abuse while I worked hard in recovery, to finally come to the conclusion she really was 'crazy', and it wan't me. > > She was my enabler for years (in childhood, adolescence, and as a young woman), and I thought we were " close " (not realizing unhealthy severe enmeshment, bc I knew no different. She was ecsatic with my first born. Right away I began to notice something was wrong (by the feelings I had in response to her interactions with my new baby - How I wish I would have known what I know now!! I believe I would have made far different choices, and years of pain may have been avoided. Sadly, no. And, my kids are now very affected by FOG and all the wonderful things that go along with BPD. It's sickening. There isn't much I can do about it (they are adults now), except focus on my own recovery and do things different with my youngest child (to protect her). > > When I told her I was pregnant w/2nd baby, she looked at me in disgust, and with much hatred said, " oh, how could you? " and stomped out of my lonely apartment. Nada ignored me the entire 9 months (I became severely depressed, during my 2nd pregnancy), while I am caring for my baby, mind you. Did she not even think to support the mother of her precious grdson, who she seemed to think I was depriving by having a 2nd child? I look at this now and see it for what it is (the opposite of love). Considering all of the facts, and how emotionally crippled & immature I was from being raised by this very sick woman, I find it to be abusieve (I felt ostracized and abandonded throughout). > > My anger did not surface until I was in labor, and she shows up pretending to be all happy and supportive, and 'showing the rest of the world' what a loving mother she is. I knew this was a lie and an act, because she had ignored me for the past 8 months! > > And, boy, you know how it is when you are in labor, you don't care what anybody thinks. I could not look at her, and did not want her near me, and I told her so. > > It was so different from my 1st baby, where she went through the lamaze classes w/me, and was my birthing partner (father left), and was very involved and supportive up unitl the day I made the mistake of telling her I was pg w/2nd baby. > > I feel bad that things were so horrible while I was carrying my beautiful daughter. I lived in fear that I would not want that baby. I felt so very alone. ONe of the happiest days of my life was the first time I saw her and held her, bc I knew for sure that I could and did love like I was supposed to, and I was thrilled. I just realized it probably was not a coincidence that I had this feeling of dread and fear threatening to overwhelm me during that pregnancy which coincided with NADA completely rejecting/abandoning/shaming me (her daughter). From about age 10 up I always had this feeling that she did not love me (sometimes I even believed she hated me), but I never understood why - I also grew up with the false belief that this was somehow my fault. > > I have complex PTSD, and it is hard to explain to people, bc on the surface I had a " good upbringin " , I was not physically neglected or abused. It was pervasive on-going lifelong emotional abuse from my primary caregiver, that no one else could see (thus I was the crazy acting out one). I just wish it hadn't taken so long for me to learn this and understand it enough to know what I needed to do (believe me I tried for years to figure out my " relationship " w/nada, in counseling, taking meds, with me always being the 'prolem'). Now I know different, and this is the only place I've found where others get it instantly (bc you've been through it as well). > > Lynn > p.s. i hope this doesn't show my email? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Perhaps bpd moms (nadas) believe that love is limited, like there is only one cup of it to share among all the members of a family, so if you have more children there is less love for everyone else, including nada. That is a very emotionally primitive way of thinking about love, showing again that those with bpd are somehow stuck in the equivalent of a toddler's level of emotional development. So, along those lines, perhaps nada is (subconsciously) relating to you as though you are *her* mother who is telling her to expect a new baby brother or sister, so nada (who is actually a three-year-old wearing an adults body) is hit with waves of intense sibling rivalry RE the new baby. Its so convoluted and backwards, but I think that's what can happen in the minds of nadas when second or third grand-babies are announced. -Annie > > > > > > Hi, I'm astonished at this thread bc of similarities with my own past experience & it brings back dreaded memories. I haven't posted on here for awhile (sometimes it's too painful & I have to shelve it & time contstraints). Buy, I'm really getting back into my recovery and I know I have to really face this stuff at some point. > > > > I had to comment on this topic/thread however and ask what is the deal with BPD grandmother's and the 2nd baby? I want to share my experience a bit, hope that's alright. > > > > I was a single parent for 10 years. I was in early recovery from alcoholism and early motherhood. I did not realized my Mother had a personality disorder (never diagnosed) until about 8 yrs. ago (13 years into my own recovery, when my kids' were preteens and my youngest was a baby). My kids are now 21 (boy), 19 (girl w/BPD traits I'm afraid), and 9 (girl). > > > > I was scapegoated (and this continues but I am aware of it, so it's different) in my family, which is really painful. > > > > Back then (20 + yrs. ago), I was clueless (I thought I was the problem). It took years of sobriety (and anger that would not go away in regards to NADA) and years of emotional abuse while I worked hard in recovery, to finally come to the conclusion she really was 'crazy', and it wan't me. > > > > She was my enabler for years (in childhood, adolescence, and as a young woman), and I thought we were " close " (not realizing unhealthy severe enmeshment, bc I knew no different. She was ecsatic with my first born. Right away I began to notice something was wrong (by the feelings I had in response to her interactions with my new baby - How I wish I would have known what I know now!! I believe I would have made far different choices, and years of pain may have been avoided. Sadly, no. And, my kids are now very affected by FOG and all the wonderful things that go along with BPD. It's sickening. There isn't much I can do about it (they are adults now), except focus on my own recovery and do things different with my youngest child (to protect her). > > > > When I told her I was pregnant w/2nd baby, she looked at me in disgust, and with much hatred said, " oh, how could you? " and stomped out of my lonely apartment. Nada ignored me the entire 9 months (I became severely depressed, during my 2nd pregnancy), while I am caring for my baby, mind you. Did she not even think to support the mother of her precious grdson, who she seemed to think I was depriving by having a 2nd child? I look at this now and see it for what it is (the opposite of love). Considering all of the facts, and how emotionally crippled & immature I was from being raised by this very sick woman, I find it to be abusieve (I felt ostracized and abandonded throughout). > > > > My anger did not surface until I was in labor, and she shows up pretending to be all happy and supportive, and 'showing the rest of the world' what a loving mother she is. I knew this was a lie and an act, because she had ignored me for the past 8 months! > > > > And, boy, you know how it is when you are in labor, you don't care what anybody thinks. I could not look at her, and did not want her near me, and I told her so. > > > > It was so different from my 1st baby, where she went through the lamaze classes w/me, and was my birthing partner (father left), and was very involved and supportive up unitl the day I made the mistake of telling her I was pg w/2nd baby. > > > > I feel bad that things were so horrible while I was carrying my beautiful daughter. I lived in fear that I would not want that baby. I felt so very alone. ONe of the happiest days of my life was the first time I saw her and held her, bc I knew for sure that I could and did love like I was supposed to, and I was thrilled. I just realized it probably was not a coincidence that I had this feeling of dread and fear threatening to overwhelm me during that pregnancy which coincided with NADA completely rejecting/abandoning/shaming me (her daughter). From about age 10 up I always had this feeling that she did not love me (sometimes I even believed she hated me), but I never understood why - I also grew up with the false belief that this was somehow my fault. > > > > I have complex PTSD, and it is hard to explain to people, bc on the surface I had a " good upbringin " , I was not physically neglected or abused. It was pervasive on-going lifelong emotional abuse from my primary caregiver, that no one else could see (thus I was the crazy acting out one). I just wish it hadn't taken so long for me to learn this and understand it enough to know what I needed to do (believe me I tried for years to figure out my " relationship " w/nada, in counseling, taking meds, with me always being the 'prolem'). Now I know different, and this is the only place I've found where others get it instantly (bc you've been through it as well). > > > > Lynn > > p.s. i hope this doesn't show my email? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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