One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

[Guest guest]

Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for her,

knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the " loving

mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom! You're

the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. " Blah,

blah, blah ... 

And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day. 

One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible. 

[Guest guest]

Alice,

What it says about you as a person is that you're reacting in a

reasonable fashion to having been mistreated. Why should you

feel horrible because you imagine you won't miss someone who has

been abusive to you? Mothers don't get a free pass to mistreat

their children. If someone else treated you the same way she has

treated you, would you see anything wrong with the idea of not

missing them much if they were gone? I feel sad that I will

never have a reason to feel much sorrow or grief when my nada

dies, but I see no reason to feel bad over it. Her misbehavior

is not my fault just as your nada's behavior is not your fault.

Perhaps one of the reasons that Facebook doesn't interest me at

all is that I have absolutely no desire to read messages of the

sort you describe. A lot of that stuff feels to me either like

private stuff being shown in public or like people putting on a

show because they think it is expected or to impress people

somehow.

At 09:17 AM 04/12/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that

>I set up for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me

>even more ), is all the " loving mother " messages I see

>friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom! You're the

>greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to

>me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

>And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I

>am happy that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm

>ecstatic that DH had such a wonderful, loving mother. I just

>feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous, jealous, jealous! And

>I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

>tantrum for the day.

>

>One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

>60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made

>me wonder: When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of

>spite since she was supposed to have been dead before the age

>of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

>miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense

>relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

>feel really, really horrible.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

My bada and mom have accounts, but I haven't seen fada's FB account yet, if

he even has one. When I discovered my mom had an account, I swiftly blocked

it so she can't see me and I can't see her. And I have a lot of things

restricted from my mom's sister who I am friends with, because I'm not sure

I trust her, yet. At least there are settings that can help give you a

modicum of privacy on such a public network.

But I hear you. I have the same issues with those posts that people have

about how awesome their parents are. I've lucked out that my in-laws are

really nice, so they're like a parent substitute in some ways. And my older

good friends, too. So when I see those posts, I try to plug, say, my mother

in law, or some other good friend who is a good mother to her own children,

etc.

It still hurts, but that's how I try to put a good spin on it.

And same here--would I miss my parents if they were dead? Well, I've been

NC so it's hard to say. I would probably miss my mom, even though she's the

enabler. But dad? I would miss his good days, the little moments of

normalcy that he had while I was growing up, but I would be glad to no

longer be afraid of him. Hard to say.

Holly

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Alice Spiedon wrote:

> **

>

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up

> for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all

> the " loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love

> you, Mom! You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true

> love to me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy

> that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such

> a wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

> jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my

> two-year-old tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

> 60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder:

> When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was

> supposed to have been dead before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will

> I feel? I don't think I will miss her very much, and I imagine all I will

> feel is intense relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

> feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Alice:

I think you are lucky that you feel the way you do. It's a blessing.

I went the other way. I have learned that I am so enmeshed in NADA that the

thought of her dying sent me into an absolute panic.

I am an only child, not married, no kids, almost no family, am 45 and was

terrified at the idea.

So much so that when she became ill I came running (moved) 250 miles to be

by her side and to help her.

I know live her with her and its killing me!

I ran like hell at 19 and have never lived closer than 250 miles since then.

I have spent an entire adulthood trying to finally please her from afar and

gain some love from her.

I also did a good job of re-writing history in my head over the last 25

years to make it easier on me and to feel more normal.

When I was a teenager I was far more spunky and was better at boundaries

with her than I am now.

I see this whole messy move ultimately as a good thing though.

I have been reminded of how completely terrible she was to me then and now.

My poor lovely stepdad has also validated my experiences with her as well.

Which is a huge blessing. As I have posted in the past, she had my whole

tiny family snowed that I was the " problem " since like age 3!

My dad left when I was 9 mos old and it was she and I and all her incredible

crazy and neglect.

I am HOPING that now. finally. at 45.. I get it. GET IT..

The woman will never be what I want her to be, and hopefully will no longer

NEED her to be..

Bring the focus in on myself and heal rather than my self-defeating plan of

the last 25 years of sweeping the whole mess under my emotional rug and

living with those consequences!

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Katrina

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:35 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: Re: One

thing I don't like about Facebook ...

Alice,

What it says about you as a person is that you're reacting in a

reasonable fashion to having been mistreated. Why should you

feel horrible because you imagine you won't miss someone who has

been abusive to you? Mothers don't get a free pass to mistreat

their children. If someone else treated you the same way she has

treated you, would you see anything wrong with the idea of not

missing them much if they were gone? I feel sad that I will

never have a reason to feel much sorrow or grief when my nada

dies, but I see no reason to feel bad over it. Her misbehavior

is not my fault just as your nada's behavior is not your fault.

Perhaps one of the reasons that Facebook doesn't interest me at

all is that I have absolutely no desire to read messages of the

sort you describe. A lot of that stuff feels to me either like

private stuff being shown in public or like people putting on a

show because they think it is expected or to impress people

somehow.

At 09:17 AM 04/12/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that

>I set up for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me

>even more ), is all the " loving mother " messages I see

>friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom! You're the

>greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to

>me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

>And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I

>am happy that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm

>ecstatic that DH had such a wonderful, loving mother. I just

>feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous, jealous, jealous! And

>I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

>tantrum for the day.

>

>One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

>60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made

>me wonder: When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of

>spite since she was supposed to have been dead before the age

>of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

>miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense

>relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

>feel really, really horrible.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Fortunately nada doesn't have an account, but it's yet another place I feel I

can't be myself. When we were NC with her, some of my old classmates would feed

her information. I had no idea that she still saw these people. I would love

to delete the account, but have few friends where we live right now so I would

become even more isolated.

PC

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Each person's situation is different, but in my own case I don't feel bad about

feeling relief that my mother/nada is gone now; she died a few months ago.

My nada had been formally diagnosed with borderline pd on two different

occasions, by two different therapists. I believe she also had narcissistic pd

and a smattering of the other Cluster B pd traits, as well as several traits of

obsessive-compulsive pd. She was mostly a Queen and Witch bpd in her younger

years, but as she aged she became much more Waify. (Sub-types of bpd described

in " Understanding The Borderline Mother. " )

Her final diagnosis was senile dementia; she died at 82.

Both my younger Sister and I had a roller-coaster relationship with our nada

because nada could be sweet, kindly and loving sometimes, but then she would

turn on a dime and attack us verbally in a red-faced, screaming rage, although

the raging became less frequent last few years of her life and she would cry and

use FOG more often instead. My mom/nada knew me better than anyone else ever

has, but would use this intimate knowledge to customize her FOG tactics to

torture me with.

Outwardly, my dad's professional career and mom's skills at homemaking gave

Sister and me the picture-perfect late 1950's/early 1960's middle-class

All-American life: an intact two-parent nuclear family in a nice suburban house,

etc. They gave us college educations, while privately, behind closed doors, my

mother made my little Sister and me physically afraid of her, while dad was

being a workaholic and in denial about how mentally ill his wife actually was.

Mother's emotional instability, her perfectionism, her utter narcissism, her

hyper-controlling, demanding, critical behaviors robbed Sister and me of any

feelings that we deserved to even exist. Our life was about not making our mom

mad at us. We became hyper-vigilent, robotic kids with zero self esteem.

Mother's wishes and feelings always came first, that it was our job to keep her

happy and that when she exploded at us and terrified us and physically assaulted

us, it was our own fault and we deserved it. Mother's fixed delusions and

paranoia added to the bizarre mix; mom's black and white thinking kept Sister

and me bewildered and fixated on trying to appease mother. Sister and I were

switched back and forth from Golden Child to Dung Child, but I spent more time

Golden and Sister spent more time as the Dung/Scapegoat child.

The result was that I stopped being " me " at a very young age (my core trauma was

around age 4, I believe) I become my nada's " mini me " , lost my ability to

connect with my emotions and became unhealthily enmeshed with my parents a la

the Stockholm Syndrome up until my mid 30's. My little Sister developed pretty

extensive childhood amnesia but she's had therapy and has gotten some of her

memories back.

We both wanted to love our mother, but she made loving her scary and dangerous

(rather like loving a wild animal that you think is tame, but can turn on you

and savage you in an instant.) Its pretty hard to love someone you are afraid

of, someone you learn not to trust, and/or someone you grow to hate because

they feel entitled to mistreat you, shame and humiliate you, crush your spirit

and totally dominate you.

So, long story short. When our mother died, my Sister and I both mostly felt a

deep sense of relief. I do miss the fragments of my mother that were normal

and motherly, I genuinely do miss that part of her. But my overwhelming emotion

is simply deep relief. Sister told me she feels the same.

And I don't think either my Sister or I are bad people.

-Annie

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie - Your posts help me an awful lot! It sounds like we had the same

mothers. Mine too has lot of NPD and OCPD along with the BPD traits. She too

is a Queen / Witch and is starting to show signs of dementia. I did not live

in the perfect house that you did but most of my life has been spent keeping

her as happy as possible so to keep away the intense criticisms and wrath of

her perceptions that she is not the center of the universe. Stepdad and

family members comply as well. As I read I too may be suffering a bit of

Stockholm syndrome since my return in the that my self-esteem is getting

really really shaky since my return and at times I'm wondering how I ever

survived out there for the last 45 years.

I am now practicing " act as if " , looking for job and do plan to leave. its

hard being up here with no friends, no job, no life and absolutely EXPECTED

to wait on her hand and foot and appease her every desire or ELSE. Dear

stepdad is grateful for my presence as it has taken a lot of pressure off

him but she has been absolutely horrible to me since I came here.

I do know that when I do finally get a job and leave I will return to normal

( I hope!) but for now I am trying to learn something about myself from this

mess.

I really appreciate your insights and posts.

Please keep them coming

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:39 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

Each person's situation is different, but in my own case I don't feel bad

about feeling relief that my mother/nada is gone now; she died a few months

ago.

My nada had been formally diagnosed with borderline pd on two different

occasions, by two different therapists. I believe she also had narcissistic

pd and a smattering of the other Cluster B pd traits, as well as several

traits of obsessive-compulsive pd. She was mostly a Queen and Witch bpd in

her younger years, but as she aged she became much more Waify. (Sub-types of

bpd described in " Understanding The Borderline Mother. " )

Her final diagnosis was senile dementia; she died at 82.

Both my younger Sister and I had a roller-coaster relationship with our nada

because nada could be sweet, kindly and loving sometimes, but then she would

turn on a dime and attack us verbally in a red-faced, screaming rage,

although the raging became less frequent last few years of her life and she

would cry and use FOG more often instead. My mom/nada knew me better than

anyone else ever has, but would use this intimate knowledge to customize her

FOG tactics to torture me with.

Outwardly, my dad's professional career and mom's skills at homemaking gave

Sister and me the picture-perfect late 1950's/early 1960's middle-class

All-American life: an intact two-parent nuclear family in a nice suburban

house, etc. They gave us college educations, while privately, behind closed

doors, my mother made my little Sister and me physically afraid of her,

while dad was being a workaholic and in denial about how mentally ill his

wife actually was.

Mother's emotional instability, her perfectionism, her utter narcissism, her

hyper-controlling, demanding, critical behaviors robbed Sister and me of any

feelings that we deserved to even exist. Our life was about not making our

mom mad at us. We became hyper-vigilent, robotic kids with zero self esteem.

Mother's wishes and feelings always came first, that it was our job to keep

her happy and that when she exploded at us and terrified us and physically

assaulted us, it was our own fault and we deserved it. Mother's fixed

delusions and paranoia added to the bizarre mix; mom's black and white

thinking kept Sister and me bewildered and fixated on trying to appease

mother. Sister and I were switched back and forth from Golden Child to Dung

Child, but I spent more time Golden and Sister spent more time as the

Dung/Scapegoat child.

The result was that I stopped being " me " at a very young age (my core trauma

was around age 4, I believe) I become my nada's " mini me " , lost my ability

to connect with my emotions and became unhealthily enmeshed with my parents

a la the Stockholm Syndrome up until my mid 30's. My little Sister developed

pretty extensive childhood amnesia but she's had therapy and has gotten some

of her memories back.

We both wanted to love our mother, but she made loving her scary and

dangerous (rather like loving a wild animal that you think is tame, but can

turn on you and savage you in an instant.) Its pretty hard to love someone

you are afraid of, someone you learn not to trust, and/or someone you grow

to hate because they feel entitled to mistreat you, shame and humiliate you,

crush your spirit and totally dominate you.

So, long story short. When our mother died, my Sister and I both mostly felt

a deep sense of relief. I do miss the fragments of my mother that were

normal and motherly, I genuinely do miss that part of her. But my

overwhelming emotion is simply deep relief. Sister told me she feels the

same.

And I don't think either my Sister or I are bad people.

-Annie

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up

for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all

the " loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love

you, Mom! You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true

love to me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy

that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my

two-year-old tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder:

When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was

supposed to have been dead before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will

I feel? I don't think I will miss her very much, and I imagine all I will

feel is intense relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, you write exactly what i feel.

I really appreciate this forum as it reflects similar and common emotions that

are gut-twisting. Other people just don't understand...and you know...i wouldn't

understand this either if i hadn't lived it myself.

Thank you Annie for your firsthand experience interpretations of reality for

lots of us.

Amy

barrycove@...

[Guest guest]

No Annie, you and Sister are not bad people. You are entitled to feel relief for

the death of your tormentor, the person charged with loving and nurturing you

who so flagrantly broke that contract. That your nada was mentally ill is very

sad, but no excuse for trying to perpetuate her illness in her children.

You and Sister have bravely gone into the world, choosing to live normal lives

after growing up in extraordinary circumstances. Choosing to excise your

poisonous upbringing. I'd say that's pretty darn brave.

> >

> > Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...

> >

> > And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.

> >

> > One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Good points, Katrina - about the abuse AND the staying off of Facebook.Â

I was thinking about the mistreating thing, and I actually had to come at it

from the perspective of me looking at someone else who has been mistreated the

way I have. I'm still having trouble looking at my own mistreatment by nada as

" abuse " - probably because she's told me so often that I haven't been abused.

:-(

But, if someone else was in this same situation, I do believe I would be

completely understanding of them not missing their abusers (even if their

abusers were their parents). In fact, I would most likely encourage them to do

something to hasten their separation from the abusers (not murder, but, you

know, anything legal).Â

I like what you said about feeling sad about not having much to grieve over when

your nada passes. That's a better way to look at it. I don't have to grieve the

loss of the tormentor, but I can grieve the fact that I won't have much reason

to experience that " socially acceptable " grief. And I DON'T have to feel bad

about it!Â

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:34 AM

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

Â

Alice,

What it says about you as a person is that you're reacting in a

reasonable fashion to having been mistreated. Why should you

feel horrible because you imagine you won't miss someone who has

been abusive to you? Mothers don't get a free pass to mistreat

their children. If someone else treated you the same way she has

treated you, would you see anything wrong with the idea of not

missing them much if they were gone? I feel sad that I will

never have a reason to feel much sorrow or grief when my nada

dies, but I see no reason to feel bad over it. Her misbehavior

is not my fault just as your nada's behavior is not your fault.

Perhaps one of the reasons that Facebook doesn't interest me at

all is that I have absolutely no desire to read messages of the

sort you describe. A lot of that stuff feels to me either like

private stuff being shown in public or like people putting on a

show because they think it is expected or to impress people

somehow.

At 09:17 AM 04/12/2012 Alice Spiedon wrote:

>Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that

>I set up for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me

>even more ), is all the " loving mother " messages I see

>friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom! You're the

>greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to

>me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

>And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I

>am happy that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm

>ecstatic that DH had such a wonderful, loving mother. I just

>feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous, jealous, jealous! And

>I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

>tantrum for the day.

>

>One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

>60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made

>me wonder: When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of

>spite since she was supposed to have been dead before the age

>of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

>miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense

>relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

>feel really, really horrible.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Holly:

That is a good way to spin those messages. I had a wonderful mother-in-law - for

eight months. And then she died. SHE died, and nada is still alive and kicking

at everyone who gets in her way and doesn't do what she wants them to do. I

grieve my MIL - every day. I grieve that she never got to meet her

grandchildren, and they never got to meet her. I grieve that she accepted me as

her daughter when my own " mother " refused to, and now I don't have that in my

life. All we have are memories of her and her love. But, yeah, I try to use her

as my mother example. She's one of the best ones I ever knew.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:41 AM

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

My bada and mom have accounts, but I haven't seen fada's FB account yet, if

he even has one. When I discovered my mom had an account, I swiftly blocked

it so she can't see me and I can't see her. And I have a lot of things

restricted from my mom's sister who I am friends with, because I'm not sure

I trust her, yet. At least there are settings that can help give you a

modicum of privacy on such a public network.

But I hear you. I have the same issues with those posts that people have

about how awesome their parents are. I've lucked out that my in-laws are

really nice, so they're like a parent substitute in some ways. And my older

good friends, too. So when I see those posts, I try to plug, say, my mother

in law, or some other good friend who is a good mother to her own children,

etc.

It still hurts, but that's how I try to put a good spin on it.

And same here--would I miss my parents if they were dead? Well, I've been

NC so it's hard to say. I would probably miss my mom, even though she's the

enabler. But dad? I would miss his good days, the little moments of

normalcy that he had while I was growing up, but I would be glad to no

longer be afraid of him. Hard to say.

Holly

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Alice Spiedon wrote:

> **

>

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up

> for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all

> the " loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love

> you, Mom! You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true

> love to me. " Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy

> that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such

> a wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

> jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my

> two-year-old tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

> 60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder:

> When nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was

> supposed to have been dead before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will

> I feel? I don't think I will miss her very much, and I imagine all I will

> feel is intense relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just

> feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Amy)))))

I'm glad that my posts resonate with you. When we share our common experiences,

I think it helps us KOs feel a sense of relief when we discover that another

person has posted, " I didn't make my mother this way, I didn't deserve to be

treated like that, and I can't make her better. Its not my fault. "

-Annie

>

> Annie, you write exactly what i feel.

> I really appreciate this forum as it reflects similar and common emotions that

are gut-twisting. Other people just don't understand...and you know...i wouldn't

understand this either if i hadn't lived it myself.

> Thank you Annie for your firsthand experience interpretations of reality for

lots of us.

> Amy

>

>

> barrycove@...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks echo babe; thumbs up to you and all us fellow KOs for just surviving!

-Annie

>

> No Annie, you and Sister are not bad people. You are entitled to feel relief

for the death of your tormentor, the person charged with loving and nurturing

you who so flagrantly broke that contract. That your nada was mentally ill is

very sad, but no excuse for trying to perpetuate her illness in her children.

>

> You and Sister have bravely gone into the world, choosing to live normal lives

after growing up in extraordinary circumstances. Choosing to excise your

poisonous upbringing. I'd say that's pretty darn brave.

[Guest guest]

I have to say, Alice, I'm the same way. Not just about those kind of Facebook

posts, but in general when someone goes on and on about how wonderful their

mother or family is, I right away start to wonder if there's some underlying

issue going on, like BPD.

Lots of times the mom really is just a wonderful person, but other times, it

turns out the " closeness " the person loves about their mother is really just

enmeshment and fear of how mom will take it if they " abandon " her.

I hear ya; I think, " what's wrong with me? why can't I just let people be

happy?? " lol!!

Even when I buy my mother a birthday or mother's day card, it takes me a very

long time to find one that doesn't gush and go on.

I understand how bad you feel, but when you have a mother with a PD, having a

relationship with them is not pleasant. It's a struggle and it's work. So if

your mother were to move far, far away, it wouldn't be such a bad thing. It

would be nice. You would feel that way about any unpleasant person.

That's how I feel about it. I've definitely had the same experience.

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know how you feel. Especially during the whole Mother's Day thing I see all

these pretty little quotes and pictures about moms and if your mom is the

greatest this and that, post on your wall. Heck no. Why lie about it? I can't

even stand seeing the Mother's Day cards in the stores. I want to barf. I'm

fortunate that my nada doesn't use a computer. She can hardly use her telephone

and TV remote. I should be thankful for that at least. Too bad there isn't a

happy nada's day. I'm not sure what I would do but it probably would get me into

trouble (like torching the mother's day card section). LOL

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ... 

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day. 

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible. 

>

>

[Guest guest]

We need a KO's day with Happy KO Day Cards

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:52 PM

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

 

I know how you feel. Especially during the whole Mother's Day thing I see all

these pretty little quotes and pictures about moms and if your mom is the

greatest this and that, post on your wall. Heck no. Why lie about it? I can't

even stand seeing the Mother's Day cards in the stores. I want to barf. I'm

fortunate that my nada doesn't use a computer. She can hardly use her telephone

and TV remote. I should be thankful for that at least. Too bad there isn't a

happy nada's day. I'm not sure what I would do but it probably would get me into

trouble (like torching the mother's day card section). LOL

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ... 

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day. 

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible. 

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ugh. Mother's Day cards ... It takes me usually about an hour to find a decent

card that will " pass muster " but which won't be a complete and total lie, " Mom,

I'm so grateful to have you in my life. You're my best friend, " etc., etc. ...

Sometimes I just make my own. 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:52 PM

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

 

I know how you feel. Especially during the whole Mother's Day thing I see all

these pretty little quotes and pictures about moms and if your mom is the

greatest this and that, post on your wall. Heck no. Why lie about it? I can't

even stand seeing the Mother's Day cards in the stores. I want to barf. I'm

fortunate that my nada doesn't use a computer. She can hardly use her telephone

and TV remote. I should be thankful for that at least. Too bad there isn't a

happy nada's day. I'm not sure what I would do but it probably would get me into

trouble (like torching the mother's day card section). LOL

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ... 

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day. 

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible. 

>

>

[Guest guest]

I often go for FUNNY ones, even juvenile ones (which she thinks me a child

anyway so it’s somehow fitting!)

She gets a laugh and I don’t have lie with what a great role model she was…

how she’s my inspiration… what a great friend she is… how thankful I am…

etc, etc (puke)

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of Alice Spiedon

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:59 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

Ugh. Mother's Day cards ... It takes me usually about an hour to find a decent

card that will " pass muster " but which won't be a complete and total lie, " Mom,

I'm so grateful to have you in my life. You're my best friend, " etc., etc. ...

Sometimes I just make my own.

_____________

From: IreneM <ireneo55@... <mailto:ireneo55%40yahoo.com> >

To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 5:52 PM

Subject: Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

I know how you feel. Especially during the whole Mother's Day thing I see all

these pretty little quotes and pictures about moms and if your mom is the

greatest this and that, post on your wall. Heck no. Why lie about it? I can't

even stand seeing the Mother's Day cards in the stores. I want to barf. I'm

fortunate that my nada doesn't use a computer. She can hardly use her telephone

and TV remote. I should be thankful for that at least. Too bad there isn't a

happy nada's day. I'm not sure what I would do but it probably would get me into

trouble (like torching the mother's day card section). LOL

>

> Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...

>

> And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.

>

> One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I used to buy the " blank inside " cards that had a pretty, decorative cover but

no theme or title. I'd write a brief note inside, and send that. Worked for

me.

-Annie

> >

> > Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ... 

> >

> > And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day. 

> >

> > One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible. 

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

" Ugh. Mother's Day cards ... It takes me usually about an hour to find a decent

card that will " pass muster "

It's true. I do the same. It took me a while to find my mother a birthday card

this weekend. I finally found one that was sincere in how I felt but not too

ingratiating.

> >

> > Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...Â

> >

> > And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.Â

> >

> > One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.Â

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That's a fantastic idea. I'm going to do that next time.

>

> I used to buy the " blank inside " cards that had a pretty, decorative cover but

no theme or title. I'd write a brief note inside, and send that. Worked for

me.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

To funny! I guess we all go there, and need to be reminded that we are oaky

with that.

Bill Hade

billfunnyman@...

Re: One thing I don't like about Facebook ...

" Ugh. Mother's Day cards ... It takes me usually about an hour to find a decent

card that will " pass muster "

It's true. I do the same. It took me a while to find my mother a birthday card

this weekend. I finally found one that was sincere in how I felt but not too

ingratiating.

> >

> > Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up for

her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...Â

> >

> > And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy that

most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.Â

> >

> > One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's 60-something

birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When nada is gone

(IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to have been dead

before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't think I will

miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense relief. But what

does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really horrible.Â

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I wish I could pick out a mother's day card without my eyes welling up with

tears...because I know that no matter what I pick, I will be reminded that my

mom wasn't there for me, made my life harder, never cared when I cried and was

hurting...and that later on, when she is gone, I will still cry for the

relationship we didn't have.

amy

barrycove@...

[Guest guest]

me too guys!

can't be too sentimental, can't call her wonderful, can't be too cheap. no

matter WHAT we send, its never right. So now, I just please myself. I like

purple--so I look for purple cards, that aren't real complimentary, mid priced.

(am I obsessing or what?)

> > >

> > > Aside from the fact that now nada has a Facebook account (that I set up

for her, knowing that she would use it to spy on me even more  ), is all the

" loving mother " messages I see friends posting. You know, the " I love you, Mom!

You're the greatest! You've always been such an example of true love to me. "

Blah, blah, blah ...Â

> > >

> > > And I really don't like myself for feeling that way. I mean, I am happy

that most of my friends had such great moms. I'm ecstatic that DH had such a

wonderful, loving mother. I just feel ... jealous. Yes, jealous. Jealous,

jealous, jealous! And I really don't like it! OK ... There was my two-year-old

tantrum for the day.Â

> > >

> > > One friend posted today about how this would've been her mom's

60-something birthday, and how much she misses her. And it made me wonder: When

nada is gone (IF she doesn't outlive me out of spite since she was supposed to

have been dead before the age of 30), will I miss her? How will I feel? I don't

think I will miss her very much, and I imagine all I will feel is intense

relief. But what does that say about me as a person? I just feel really, really

horrible.Â

> > >

> > >