Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just wanted to share my feelings of acceptance and peace here.  I've currently been at a good new job for almost a year.  This job is good.  Not super stressful.  In fact, this is the first time in my life when I'm not feeling super stressed.  This has given me some more time to reflect and process my experiences and emotions......  As opposed to focusing on or actively distracting myself from the stress.  For the first time in my life, I'm feeling consistently at peace. I've been lc with my fada for a number of years now.  Ad lc with my enabling mom too.  Going lc with them was tough, but it payed off.  I still feel obligated not to totally ignore them.  I'm hoping this will eventually fade away too.  They are good at FOG'ing.  Well, now they're more just OG'ing. Interacting with them dredges up all these painful memories and emotions.  I can call up the memories of physical and emotional abuse in their absence, but it's not as emotionally painful.  Their presence intensifies the pain.  And expressing it would only lead my fada having a BP rage.  So I hold the emotions in the few times a year I do interact with them.  I've heard  the importance of " expressing emotions " a billion trillion times, but it's only this past year it's importance has sunk in.  Growing up with my family required not expressing my emotions (e.g. if I cried, my fada used to keep hitting me until I stopped crying).  I think that when I don't express my feelings, I forget I even have them, even though they're still there.  Like a pebble in shoe that is ignored and eventually forgotten.  Except these feelings are a particularly malevolent ferocious  group pebbles, with sharp pointy teeth biding their time to ambush when my emotional presence is most required. Despite how much he's hurt me, I'm still emotionally attached to him.  Like a baby chimp is emotionally attached to doll shaped like it's mom.  What makes this all the more difficult, is that I can see my fada struggling with his bp.  Part of him wants to be a better person.  He wants a relationship with me.  We went together to therapy once.  He claimed the physical abuse didn't happen or wasn't that bad...  Except for one episode he apologized for.  He apologized in the past for it. And here, in front of some one else, he started to deny it.  When I challenged him, he admitted and apologized.  It's hard to grieve for the loss of someone when they're still physically and somewhat emotionally present. For so long I desperately wanted a relationship with him.  But I'm better off without him in my life.  I'm no longer subjected to splitting, rages, gas lighting, shaming, isolation. While typing them just now, I was able to briefly feel them again.   I find going LC has given me the time to realize and accept that I'm better off without him in my life.  Accepting this loss has given me some measure of peace. Since going LC, I've been learning how to make friends and how to interact with people in an emotionally constructive way.  It's still a work in progress.  As I look to the future, I am hopeful and excited to live an emotionally fulfilling life with people I genuinely care  for :-) ________________________________ To: " WTOAdultChildren1 " <WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 6:34 AM Subject: Re: Re: Robin Hobb and BP?  I'm currently re-reading the books, but focusing on the emotional message trying to be communicated.  Now that I'm looking for this, I don't believe it's subtle at all.  E.g.  RH's personification of the qualities in the name.  Not just in the royalty.  E.g. Fitz = son On another note, the magic that appears in the book is almost purely about interpersonal communication.  Reading it put me in mind of the semi obsolete triune brain theory (i.e. reptillian, mammalian, human parts of our brain ). That said, I  her antagonists put me in mind of bp.  We never get in their heads long enough to know what they're feeling and thinking, but the rest of the behaviors are markedly similar. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 11:58 PM Subject: Re: Re: Robin Hobb and BP? was actually not referring to Lawson's " Queen " archetype; he was referring to a fictional character in a fantasy book series by author Robin Hobb (The " Farseer " books, AKA the " Royal Assassin " trilogy) who was a literal royal queen. I don't actually remember if the Queen in those books ever had any other name, but the nobles in this fictional kingdom give their children names indicating the traits they most want their children to display (such as Chivalry and Patience). The Queen's darling little boy was named " Regal " , which tells you what SHE valued in her kids. Hobb tends to avoid the classic fantasy villain who is some kind of " embodiment of evil " (Sauron etc.) and go for much more human villains, who are generally more spiteful, petty, vicious, and stupid than EEEEVILLLL. So a lot of them, as points out, are emotional abusers. I was just saying that although these characters are definitely emotionally abusive, I'm not clear that if you sat them down in a psychologist's office and tried to use the DSM on them, you'd get " borderline " (if you could even do that with fictional characters, heh!) because none of them are self-destructive or overly impulsive (or seem to have " fear of abandonment " at their core.) But since they're fictional characters, you can interpret them any way you like, natch. -- Jen H. On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 12:30 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > Just for the record, its the author of " Understanding The Borderline > Mother " , Lawson, who originated the sub-types of borderline pd > that we refer to often here. Lawson's sub-types are those with borderline > pd who display co-morbity with other personality disorders: > > Hermit: borderline pd + avoidant pd > Waif: borderline pd + dependent pd > Queen: borderline pd + narcissistic pd > Witch: borderline pd + antisocial pd. > > My own mother/nada was mostly a Queen and and a Witch when Sister and I > were minor kids, but as our nada aged she added in Waif or child-like, > dependent traits more often than the Witch, although the Witch never went > away entirely. > > I think its just that my nada discovered that physical intimidation and > threats didn't work so well any longer so she switched tactics. Nada > discovered that acting like a helpless and scared little child, a victim, > and using Fear, Obligation and Guilt worked better for her, at least until > Sister and I finally realized that it was mostly just a game, a > manipulative tactic, and we just weren't buying it any longer. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > Hm, possibly. Neither Regal nor the Queen was self-harming though, which > > (for me) would tend to put them more in the " narcissist " camp. > > > > One interesting possible borderline character would be Hest from the > " Rain > > Wilds " duology (Dragon Keeper/Dragon Haven). But again, no self-harm, so > > he's really much more of a bastard of a narcissist. (Abuses his wife AND > > abuses the gay lover he keeps on the side. Eventually in the books the > wife > > and the lover compare notes and separately decide to dump Hest on his ass > > and find new lovers.) > > > > The reason most people point to Tien Vorsoisson (of " Komarr " ) as a > " classic > > borderline " is that he made very deliberate threats to self-harm in order > > to exert emotional control over his wife (Ekaterin). Without the > self-harm > > aspect, the distinction between borderline behavior and malignant > > narcissism gets really muddy and hard to define. A narcissist would never > > dream of self-harm. Also, narcissists don't (generally) have the > > overwhelming fear of abandonment that borderlines have, although there > are > > similarities -- narcissists will rage if they perceive you as " leaving " > or > > " abandoning " them emotionally by daring to think for a moment that they > > aren't the most special and perfect being on God's creation. Narcissists > > are quite likely to simply dump you if you fail them somehow (by not > > providing narcissistic supply sufficiently, or by daring to show them up > by > > being better than them at something), unlike a borderline, who will hate > > and abuse you for these things but still cling to you like a limpet. ( " I > > hate you, don't leave me. " ) > > > > But when it comes to personality disorders, it's a spectrum like a > rainbow, > > not a neat classification system with little cubbies you can slot people > > into. You can say " This person is more orange " and " This person is more > > red " , and there are clear differences, but exactly where red becomes > orange > > and how they shade into each other -- there's simply no actual dividing > > point for that. > > > > I do have to say that Hobb does a fine job of portraying emotional abuse > in > > all its nastiness in many of her books, which probably means she has some > > personal experience with it, I would guess. > > > > -- Jen H. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 ((((())))) I am so glad for you that you have taken such large strides toward healing and are feeling more at peace now. That's wonderful! Being able to step back, so to speak, and create emotional distance from my nada helped me too, as did leaving a very stressful corporate job and trying something different. So, you post resonates with me. As Doug says: " May we all heal. " -Annie > > > > > > Hm, possibly. Neither Regal nor the Queen was self-harming though, which > > > (for me) would tend to put them more in the " narcissist " camp. > > > > > > One interesting possible borderline character would be Hest from the > > " Rain > > > Wilds " duology (Dragon Keeper/Dragon Haven). But again, no self-harm, so > > > he's really much more of a bastard of a narcissist. (Abuses his wife AND > > > abuses the gay lover he keeps on the side. Eventually in the books the > > wife > > > and the lover compare notes and separately decide to dump Hest on his ass > > > and find new lovers.) > > > > > > The reason most people point to Tien Vorsoisson (of " Komarr " ) as a > > " classic > > > borderline " is that he made very deliberate threats to self-harm in order > > > to exert emotional control over his wife (Ekaterin). Without the > > self-harm > > > aspect, the distinction between borderline behavior and malignant > > > narcissism gets really muddy and hard to define. A narcissist would never > > > dream of self-harm. Also, narcissists don't (generally) have the > > > overwhelming fear of abandonment that borderlines have, although there > > are > > > similarities -- narcissists will rage if they perceive you as " leaving " > > or > > > " abandoning " them emotionally by daring to think for a moment that they > > > aren't the most special and perfect being on God's creation. Narcissists > > > are quite likely to simply dump you if you fail them somehow (by not > > > providing narcissistic supply sufficiently, or by daring to show them up > > by > > > being better than them at something), unlike a borderline, who will hate > > > and abuse you for these things but still cling to you like a limpet. ( " I > > > hate you, don't leave me. " ) > > > > > > But when it comes to personality disorders, it's a spectrum like a > > rainbow, > > > not a neat classification system with little cubbies you can slot people > > > into. You can say " This person is more orange " and " This person is more > > > red " , and there are clear differences, but exactly where red becomes > > orange > > > and how they shade into each other -- there's simply no actual dividing > > > point for that. > > > > > > I do have to say that Hobb does a fine job of portraying emotional abuse > > in > > > all its nastiness in many of her books, which probably means she has some > > > personal experience with it, I would guess. > > > > > > -- Jen H. > > > >Â > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 , I'm so glad you're not feeling stressed for the first time in your life. It must feel so foreign and you certainly deserve to not be on your guard. I hope this will be a healing and fruitful time in your life. Fiona > > > > > > Hm, possibly. Neither Regal nor the Queen was self-harming though, which > > > (for me) would tend to put them more in the " narcissist " camp. > > > > > > One interesting possible borderline character would be Hest from the > > " Rain > > > Wilds " duology (Dragon Keeper/Dragon Haven). But again, no self-harm, so > > > he's really much more of a bastard of a narcissist. (Abuses his wife AND > > > abuses the gay lover he keeps on the side. Eventually in the books the > > wife > > > and the lover compare notes and separately decide to dump Hest on his ass > > > and find new lovers.) > > > > > > The reason most people point to Tien Vorsoisson (of " Komarr " ) as a > > " classic > > > borderline " is that he made very deliberate threats to self-harm in order > > > to exert emotional control over his wife (Ekaterin). Without the > > self-harm > > > aspect, the distinction between borderline behavior and malignant > > > narcissism gets really muddy and hard to define. A narcissist would never > > > dream of self-harm. Also, narcissists don't (generally) have the > > > overwhelming fear of abandonment that borderlines have, although there > > are > > > similarities -- narcissists will rage if they perceive you as " leaving " > > or > > > " abandoning " them emotionally by daring to think for a moment that they > > > aren't the most special and perfect being on God's creation. Narcissists > > > are quite likely to simply dump you if you fail them somehow (by not > > > providing narcissistic supply sufficiently, or by daring to show them up > > by > > > being better than them at something), unlike a borderline, who will hate > > > and abuse you for these things but still cling to you like a limpet. ( " I > > > hate you, don't leave me. " ) > > > > > > But when it comes to personality disorders, it's a spectrum like a > > rainbow, > > > not a neat classification system with little cubbies you can slot people > > > into. You can say " This person is more orange " and " This person is more > > > red " , and there are clear differences, but exactly where red becomes > > orange > > > and how they shade into each other -- there's simply no actual dividing > > > point for that. > > > > > > I do have to say that Hobb does a fine job of portraying emotional abuse > > in > > > all its nastiness in many of her books, which probably means she has some > > > personal experience with it, I would guess. > > > > > > -- Jen H. > > > >Â > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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