Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Maybe journalling can help you with your self doubt; that way you become your own " enlightened witness " , and after a few weeks or a few months a pattern may emerge: you'll have a record of things that your nada says or does over and over again that make you feel hurt or frightened or otherwise abused. Earlier in my life when I was just learning about personality disorders, I began journalling about my then-current interactions with my nada, and I began writing what I called a " retro diary " . I'd just jot down my childhood memories as they'd pop up, not worrying about putting them in order, just collecting them. There were so many. When I did begin putting them in some kind of order, I was able to see the pattern of my nada's abusive behaviors much more clearly. It was like a gift to myself. I also recommend " The Gift of Fear " by Gavin deBecker, which is about learning to trust your own instincts about people who are not safe to be around. If your child is showing you behaviors such as: *having nightmares after spending time alone with your nada, *reenacting spankings, face-slapping, hitting with objects, yelling, being shaken, throwing dolls or toys against the wall, etc., after spending time alone with your nada, *if you child seems depressed, worried/anxious, frightened, belligerent or unusually clingy after spending time alone with your nada, *if your child seems to disrespect your authority and treat you with contempt after spending time alone with your nada, then those are signs that your nada is mistreating or neglecting or corrupting your child. So, don't hesitate to take a stand and prevent further trauma to your little one if you suspect that your nada is behaving inappropriately toward him or her. I hope that helps. Also: you are not alone; very few of us here have mothers or fathers who have been formally diagnosed with bpd. -Annie > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Thanks for the reply. I think I will start a journal. I've already made a commitment that my children will no longer stay with her until they are verbal and able to communicate what they want. I guess at this phase though it is hard to tell what is a phase with my child and what indicates traumatizing behavior. He definitely yells more after he's been with her, he hits me more, and the last time he cried for 3 hours and clung to me without letting me put him down and then wouldn't eat hardly anything the next day. There are so many red flags that I can't even put my finger on..much less put into words. > > > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Anonymousa, it sounds like you already know what you need to know. How much longer do you have to let your mother care for your child? Are there external reasons where you really have to? Eliza > > > > > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 No, she won't be caring for him again until he can voice his opinion on it. I just know she's going to throw a complete holy fit about it though when I tell her that so I'm doubting myself and dreading saying anything. She feels like she should have him to herself once a week or once every other week, it's crazy. > > > > > > > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 My nada has never been officially diagnosed either. I've always been the one to go to counseling (early on she sent me because she was sure I was the problem and needed to be fixed). On the rare occasions when we went for family counseling, she would end the sessions (and the process) the minute any counselor said she might need to make a few changes (i.e., not slapping me in the face or locking me in my room). When my husband and I first start dating and he was first exposed to her, he went to counseling to try to figure out how to deal with her, among other things. He took me along with him a few times, and HIS counselor was the one who told me that nada probably had BPD. He recommended SWOE. I read it and identified so much with it. I knew he probably was right, even if he was completely quack-y in other ways (trying to convince me that DH would never have sex with me, and he had a bottle of wine waiting back at his house ... ). Creep! Talk about crazy-making! But at least he called the BPD right ... If your nada is anything like mine, she won't ever get an " official " diagnosis. I STILL struggle with feelings of being the crazy one - especially when I spend time away from this group. As soon as I come back here, though, and see that there ARE people who DO experience the same (or similar) things as me, I get another reality check, and I know that it's not just me. So my advice is to keep posting here. That's what's helped me most. And I agree that you should write everything down. That will help you be less confused. It's so easy to get trapped in the FOG. ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:26 PM Subject: Doubting myself  My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 You don't need an official diagnosis to know someone is toxic. Who cares if she has BPD or not? If you feel she is dangerous on any level, you have not only a right but an obligation to yourself and your children to limit your exposure to her. YOU are the parent, and YOU get to decide what works best for YOU and your family. You're the one in charge of your boundaries, and you're not a bad person or a bad daughter or a bad mother for actually wanting your own space and authority. Sveta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I agree Sveta. Often it seems like we exhaust ourselves trying to come up with an accurate diagnosis...but does it even matter? BPD...NPD...whatever. My nada is a bad person-period. > > You don't need an official diagnosis to know someone is toxic. > > Who cares if she has BPD or not? If you feel she is dangerous on any level, you have not only a right but an obligation to yourself and your children to limit your exposure to her. > > YOU are the parent, and YOU get to decide what works best for YOU and your family. You're the one in charge of your boundaries, and you're not a bad person or a bad daughter or a bad mother for actually wanting your own space and authority. > > Sveta > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 You know your son is obviously having some kind of trauma during his time with your nada. LIke I have to do soon, tell nada you have decided that he is not going to staying with her one on one. This is your decision and she can either accept it or not see him at all. I have to do the same thing, but I have to tell my nada that my twelve year old son and I will not be staying with her during our visits anymore. She has been more abusive and she likes to try to use money to manipulate myself and my son. Her behavior towards her only grandchild has become callous during a time when she should be even more sensitive to his needs. I would like to encourage you to continue to only allow supervised time with your child even once he is more verbal, because you are hoping that a child will not be manipulated or coerced into hiding things from you, or just not being sophisticated enough to understand and communicate what he is experiencing in your absence. I think you already know this tho. C > > > > You don't need an official diagnosis to know someone is toxic. > > > > Who cares if she has BPD or not? If you feel she is dangerous on any level, you have not only a right but an obligation to yourself and your children to limit your exposure to her. > > > > YOU are the parent, and YOU get to decide what works best for YOU and your family. You're the one in charge of your boundaries, and you're not a bad person or a bad daughter or a bad mother for actually wanting your own space and authority. > > > > Sveta > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 > If your child is showing you behaviors such as: > > *having nightmares after spending time alone with your nada, > > *reenacting spankings, face-slapping, hitting with objects, yelling, being shaken, throwing dolls or toys against the wall, etc., after spending time alone with your nada, > I had to reply to this. I'm still struggling with this novel I started about a KO and needed to create some sense of mystery surrounding this guy's childhood. I started to think back to things I remembered that were sort of chilling to think about and never made a lot of sense. One thing I remember is this flash card I had with a picture of a queen on it. " This is the letter Q, " you know. I used to love to beat that thing up. I was this little four year old girl, and I'd slam it down and yell, " Bad queen! " and then make it cry. The scary thing was that it felt good that someone else was all bad, that I could hit and slam someone else around and make them cry. It was a powerful feeling. It was like, Ha ha ha. I got you! Which is sort of a scary thing to think back and remember me as a four year old kid thinking and doing. And here it is. Wow. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I had to respond to your post because it goes with what I've had on my mind today. I can tell you now, you're not alone. I've thought countless times am I the crazy one... am I a bad daughter...am I just making my mom to be a villain. You're not alone. You know what I'm starting to realize...that because our nada's treated us the way they did...as adults we doubt what we perceive all the time. I doubt my gut feelings all the time and exhaust myself analyzing my thoughts to see if yeah I'm right or not. So I say go with your gut. If you feel something isn't right with your nada always wanting the kids go with that. I just had a similar conversation and again those feelings of doubt crept up. My uncle asked me if I was ready to let my seven yr old come visit him and my nada for a wk. My uncle is great and I feel has been the reason I'm still alive today but my nada...welll... Anyways, when he mentioned this to me I had to go with my gut and just told him I didn't feel comfortable with my son being around my nada without him or myself around. I told him I was scared she'd get too stressed and lose it on him and scream at him. Scream I mean RAGE. My nada has mellowed out A LOT now that she's older but every once in a while I'm reminded that her demon self is still around. It's rare though and since I live in another state it's even rarer. But either way I'm going from my past experience when I told my uncle I didn't feel ok with that idea. Then I hang up and felt terrible. I felt like I've made my mom to be such a villain and thought...geesh she hasn't treated my kids badly but I've always been around and wonder what if I wasn't. I also worry that I'm hurting my nada's feelings...am I using the kids to hurt her by not letting her spend time with them alone. So I understand a little bit how you might feel. It's hard. For me I just have to do what I feel is right and not worry about hurting my uncle or nada's feelings. My kids are my priority. As a kid I couldn't get out of the hell I was living in but my kids don't need to be exposed to my nada's rage. So try to go with what you think is right. Try not to doubt yourself. I know it's easy for me to say but I'm sure everyone in this group can tell you they've doubted themselves and what they believe about their nada's at least a few times if not all the time. I hope before you talk to your nada you have an idea of what you're going to say and prep yourself to stay strong if she gets angry. She probably will be angry but you need to try to assert those boundaries at least for the sake of your kids. They've got you to keep them safe. Best of luck. Ariel > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thanks for the replies. Ariel, I was just thinking today about exactly how I'm going to tell her that her grandchildren won't be spending the night with her anymore. I almost have a panic attack just thinking about it. In some ways I think it would be easier to put her off for a while and always pretending to have plans and be too busy but I know that eventually I'm just going to have to say it. :/ > > > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hey, that's a start. Stall till you feel like you can handle talking to her. I sometimes purposely don't answer my cell when my nada calls because I don't feel strong or ready at the moment to be totally ON in case she starts talking and talking about herself without letting me put in a word or when she crosses the line with her opinions or what not. So if stalling for a while by saying you're busy helps you get your bearings do it. Someone also suggested to have CLEAR boundaries in place instead of general ones..ex. she can't be mean to me... instead set this, she can't scream at me...I won't let her talk to me about XYZ... It might help while you stall to write clear boundaries down so you'll feel more sure of yourself before you talk to her about how her visits with the kids will change. It might help you make more sense of things in your head and you might handle things much better when you have your talk. I know it's hard. If it was a friend it would be so much easier to just end the friendship, but when it's a nada or a fada it's a totally different ball game because they are our parents and that attachment is just so strong at times. You have to give yourself permission to live your life and protect your kids. Best of luck. Hang in there. Keep us posted. Ariel > > > > > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 When I did it, I was literally shaking with adrenaline. But it felt so empowering, honestly. " I am never going to leave my children alone with you, ever, so stop asking. I don't trust you because your behavior is abusive. " Taking the first real big step toward protecting our boundaries and confronting others can be such an important part of healing. Sveta > > Thanks for the replies. Ariel, I was just thinking today about exactly how I'm going to tell her that her grandchildren won't be spending the night with her anymore. I almost have a panic attack just thinking about it. In some ways I think it would be easier to put her off for a while and always pretending to have plans and be too busy but I know that eventually I'm just going to have to say it. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hi there, few years ago, I left my 5year old daughter with my BPD mum for 2 days. I'm still not sure exactly what happened, but I know that my daughter, who normally loves going to school (we normally race each other there) was dragged there by my mum! Needless to say, that I never leave my daughter with my mum now. At the time my mum blamed it all on my daughter. Your kids are more important and it's not worth the risk. I watched my sister be hit, pushed, squeezed and soap shoved in her mouth as a toddler, until she was big enough to fight back. Now she too has BPD! I'm reading 'Understanding The Borderline Mother' by C Lawson. It's very thorough at diagnosing different types of BPD and the effects on their children. Good luck xxx RM > > My nada has never been officially diagnosed with anything so her BPD is strictly something that myself and my husband have observed in her. I read all the symptoms over and over and over again but I still have so many doubts. Maybe I'm the crazy one or the bad one. Maybe I'm just a terrible person for not wanting to let her take my children anytime she wants (which would be every weekend or more). Is it normal to feel this way? I wish she could just get an official diagnosis, maybe that would help things. The only time she stepped inside a therapists office was when I was a teen and the therapist told me in private that she was only interested in " fixing me " and not in fixing herself or the relationship. I'm sorry my thoughts are all jumbled, every time I think of this I get so confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Anonymous and Svaktshka, I agree, there is a freeing quality to telling someone--esp your mother--exactly how you feel, esp when you have been used all your life to saying what you think they want to hear. Svaktshka: yes! I can relate to the adrenaline boost. It is glorious!! ha ha And Anonymous: I feel like I take one step forward, 2 steps back with the boundary thing and have to remind myself WHY I set the boundaries I did. Esp now that my mother has been " behaving " herself (my brother living much closer in proximity to her explains why she's not calling me as much or freaking out as much abt being alone). It *is* easier to put it off and make excuses. I still do that sometimes when I just don't have the energy for a full-on confrontation. You'll know when you're ready to say 'no more.' > > > > Thanks for the replies. Ariel, I was just thinking today about exactly how I'm going to tell her that her grandchildren won't be spending the night with her anymore. I almost have a panic attack just thinking about it. In some ways I think it would be easier to put her off for a while and always pretending to have plans and be too busy but I know that eventually I'm just going to have to say it. :/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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