Re: Great, now nada wants to try family therapy

[Guest guest]

AS stated below - only you really know your situation. I just am wondering if

you may want to accept for your dad's sake. Do you think he is asking this of

you as a last ditch effort to finally shed some light on your nada's mental

illness and get help for her, himself and you all?

Just something to consider.

Having only been to a therapist twice - once for marriage counseling (3

sessions) and once for me ( 5 sessions) I found the whole thing very positive

and helpful. I had all kinds of preconcieved fears that the therapist would not

see things objectively -etc. But it didn't happen.

Someone posted - I beleive - some excellent advice about checking into the

therapist and asking some great questions first. I thought that was very

authentic - he as walked the walk and it could help you feel safer.

But the advice to stay NC has merit too. I guess it comes down to where you are

in your journey with it right now - but some good suggestions here and people

who care.

> > >

> > > I'm sorry I keep posting...it just seems like perhaps I am in a " crisis "

> > mode at the moment because (of course) my mother is.

> > >

> > > I've been NC with my BPD (undiagnosed, I think) for 4+ months. I got a

> > letter today from my Dad and mom, asking if I'd be willing to do family

> > therapy. It was a bunch of crap. First off, my Dad knows how I feel and he

> > thinks mom has BPD as well. He's even talked about leaving her. But the

> > letter implies that I am NC with him as well, which clearly I am not. The

> > letter doesn't even start on an honest premise!

> > >

> > > Ugh, I'm frustrated, as you can imagine. I mean, what the hell would

> > family therapy do? We all know (the whole family!!!) that you can't reason

> > with mom (or anyone with BPD for that manner). As a matter of fact, one of

> > my dad's favorite things to say is " don't confuse mom with the facts. " What

> > the hell would I say then? I'm done talking, I'm done defending. I don't

> > want to do it, and, perhaps more importantly, I don't think it would help.

> > (and just as an aside, this " family " therapy only includes the 2 kids who

> > have stood up to mom in the past few months and NOT the other two " good "

> > kids).

> > >

> > > I do have a choice, right? Am I making myself the bad daughter if I don't

> > give it a shot? My Dad seems to think that the therapist will " finally see

> > her for who she is " if my mom is in a group session; he's convinced it's the

> > only way to get her diagnosed with BPD.

> > >

> > > I don't know what to do.

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening, again and as always. You are all so helpful and

> > insightful...and it's just so great to have some support. I really feel a

> > connection with y'all that I'm not sure I get with anyone else aside from my

> > sister...who's has had the same experiences as me!

> > > Judy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One more thought on this posting - I am thinking you should only go to therapy

for you. I am remembering that when my husband and I were dating (married 30

years now) his nada had been in therapy for like 7 years and the family didn't

think it helped at all, as a matter of fact they all felt she felt more entitled

to being self centerd, mean and in general completely NP. Her attitude always

seemed to be " this is me baby so deal with it! " . Anyway - my point is your nada

is going to percieve her, or in this case - the family therapy in her own way.

She most certianly won't get out of it what you will, or what you want her to.

So if you want to go for yourself I say give it a try. But if you're not in a

place where you feel okay with that - perhaps NC is the way to stay.

> >

> > I'm sorry I keep posting...it just seems like perhaps I am in a " crisis "

mode at the moment because (of course) my mother is.

> >

> > I've been NC with my BPD (undiagnosed, I think) for 4+ months. I got a

letter today from my Dad and mom, asking if I'd be willing to do family therapy.

It was a bunch of crap. First off, my Dad knows how I feel and he thinks mom has

BPD as well. He's even talked about leaving her. But the letter implies that I

am NC with him as well, which clearly I am not. The letter doesn't even start on

an honest premise!

> >

> > Ugh, I'm frustrated, as you can imagine. I mean, what the hell would family

therapy do? We all know (the whole family!!!) that you can't reason with mom (or

anyone with BPD for that manner). As a matter of fact, one of my dad's favorite

things to say is " don't confuse mom with the facts. " What the hell would I say

then? I'm done talking, I'm done defending. I don't want to do it, and, perhaps

more importantly, I don't think it would help. (and just as an aside, this

" family " therapy only includes the 2 kids who have stood up to mom in the past

few months and NOT the other two " good " kids).

> >

> > I do have a choice, right? Am I making myself the bad daughter if I don't

give it a shot? My Dad seems to think that the therapist will " finally see her

for who she is " if my mom is in a group session; he's convinced it's the only

way to get her diagnosed with BPD.

> >

> > I don't know what to do.

> >

> > Thanks for listening, again and as always. You are all so helpful and

insightful...and it's just so great to have some support. I really feel a

connection with y'all that I'm not sure I get with anyone else aside from my

sister...who's has had the same experiences as me!

> > Judy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Caroline,

This situation reminds me of my teenager, we actually had this conversation not

2 days ago: when I (me, fiona) ask her to do something, she says, " yeah,

whatever, I'll get to it " but when she asks ME for something (ipod charger,

etc), I'm supposed to hop to it and get it done asap...or else the begging

starts. I told her when she asked me for a new charger " sure, right, I'll get

right on it " and that if she started begging me about it, there would be no

charger.

My point is: you don't have to do anything you don't want to do if you're not

ready to do it. Your mother wouldn't. Neither should you. Perhaps use one of

my faves, " I'll think about it. " You can think about it for months or years.

Why should mom get to decide the schedule for this?

Maybe in the meantime you can suggest that your parents start counseling on

their own and you'll jump in once you've thought about it. Or something like

that.

Fiona

>

> I'm sorry I keep posting...it just seems like perhaps I am in a " crisis " mode

at the moment because (of course) my mother is.

>

> I've been NC with my BPD (undiagnosed, I think) for 4+ months. I got a letter

today from my Dad and mom, asking if I'd be willing to do family therapy. It was

a bunch of crap. First off, my Dad knows how I feel and he thinks mom has BPD as

well. He's even talked about leaving her. But the letter implies that I am NC

with him as well, which clearly I am not. The letter doesn't even start on an

honest premise!

>

> Ugh, I'm frustrated, as you can imagine. I mean, what the hell would family

therapy do? We all know (the whole family!!!) that you can't reason with mom (or

anyone with BPD for that manner). As a matter of fact, one of my dad's favorite

things to say is " don't confuse mom with the facts. " What the hell would I say

then? I'm done talking, I'm done defending. I don't want to do it, and, perhaps

more importantly, I don't think it would help. (and just as an aside, this

" family " therapy only includes the 2 kids who have stood up to mom in the past

few months and NOT the other two " good " kids).

>

> I do have a choice, right? Am I making myself the bad daughter if I don't give

it a shot? My Dad seems to think that the therapist will " finally see her for

who she is " if my mom is in a group session; he's convinced it's the only way to

get her diagnosed with BPD.

>

> I don't know what to do.

>

> Thanks for listening, again and as always. You are all so helpful and

insightful...and it's just so great to have some support. I really feel a

connection with y'all that I'm not sure I get with anyone else aside from my

sister...who's has had the same experiences as me!

> Judy

>

[Guest guest]

It can be helpful. My nada , of course, manipulated and blew of FT

mostly. The last time we tried, me and her T left 45 mins after the

start of an hour session, and met her coming in the door.

So it might not work, but it also might.

If it were me, I would set a condition. First, I meet, alone, with the

T involved. I assure myself said T is fully aware and on board with

the fact that Mom has a PD and is pretty much the major contributor to

the dysfunctional dynamics. If so, then I d consider it. If not, it

gives the opportunity for the T to become enlightened.

If you find the approach is going to be, why don t you guys stop being

so mean to dear old Mom, you can just laugh, get up, say AMF, and head

out the door.

If they will not agree to that, and instead want you to go into a fam

session cold, I d probably demure. Alternately, I might let MY T call

and talk to the T doing the FT, with the permission of the other Foo

members, then ask my T who I trust if this seems like a good thing.

Just reading again in your post the part where Dad says maybe the T will

see her as she is in a group setting. The implication then, is that the

T does not. That being the case, I would either insist on a T of my

choosing, or the first session takes place WITHOUT nada, just the other

family members. After they tell thier nada stories, if the T comes to

see that she may be the issue, fine. If he comes back with, you all

seem to have a lot of hostility toward your mother....

I d utter a few words they taught me when I was a sailor, and decline

further participation.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I think my immediate response

was " hell no " - mainly because I've been trying for years to get her the help

she needs. She has had a dimwit of a therapist who is waaaay out of her league;

and if this therapist has done anything, she's given my mom a new, stronger

sense of b*tchiness and entitlement that she can mask behind the statement

" well, I learned in therapy I need to be honest " or " my therapist says I need to

express my feelings " . In the past 6+ years, I've tried calling her therapist,

psychiatrist, even the primary care physician. I've attended one appointment and

have offered to go to others. I've even inquired about other more qualified

professionals, but to no avail. I've visited her in the inpatient psych ward

after she was admitted for suicidal ideations (which she later denied). I've

researched her symptoms, researched possible therapies, talked with other

psychiatric professionals for advice. I've even reached out to some of her old

friends - those who are no longer on her good side and have seen her in action.

Quite frankly, I'm tired. The last thing I want to do is get a sitter for my

kids and drive 3 hours each way to sit in a room with her and the rest of the

family while she puts on her poor-me-I'm-the-victim act. I have nothing left to

say, except what I've been saying - and have even told her - she has a

personality disorder, a real mental health problem, and she needs to be seeing

someone who specializes in DBT treatment.

I don't think our family has any chance at survival unless we remove the threat

from the picture. I don't even think our own individual therapy is helping in

the family dynamics at all either. 3 out of 4 of us (adult) kids are in therapy

for this. And when 2 of us removes ourselves from mom's contact, the other 2 act

like we're villains because we've made the situation " worse " for them by not

" helping " mom.

Anyways, I ended up just telling my Dad I would think about it. I was honest and

said I am hesitant to put myself in the line of fire, even if it's with a

trained therapist who is on board with her diagnosis....because I don't think

any of it will ever change until SHE changes. And if she hasn't gotten the

message yet that she's sick, after everything I've already tried, then I'm not

sure she ever will.

Talking to him was actually a nice reminder as to WHY I have been NC from

her...apparently last night she was again hospitalized because she thought she

was having a heart attack...turns out it was another panic attack. Shocker.

Thanks for listening!

[Guest guest]

Last/Carolina -

There's an old joke about the kid who was so ugly his parents had to tie a pork

chop around his leg so the dog would play with him. That sort of sums up my

mother's relationships with her therapists over the years. They have been a

kind of " paid friends " - since she was paying them for their time, they would

sit there and listen to her version of reality for an hour, and she would leave

thinking (of course!!) that she was absolutely right about everything, justified

in feeling the way she did about every perceived slight or injustice done to her

by family, colleagues, and the world in general.

I don't know if they were so inept they didn't see the BPD, or if she's just

such a good actress that she had them as snowed as she had all of her enablers.

Maybe they were dealing with her (real) bipolar and depression problems, and

they didn't get into the BPD because she was constantly creating drama. I don't

know - all I remember is being hauled into family therapy when my dad got sick,

trying to tell the therapist that my mother was bankrupting the family by using

" retail therapy " at the mall, and having the therapist look at me like I was a

blank wall.

I think therapists can do a world of good, when the patient or family is

receptive. I just didn't see therapy doing my mom any good, because like your

Nada, mine used therapy as " official permission " to continue doing whatever she

wanted. After going to two family therapy sessions, I realized I was just going

to be one of (several) punching bags and that the therapist wasn't going to call

my mom on her crap, so I didn't waste the time or the gas money any more.

>

> Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I think my immediate response

was " hell no " - mainly because I've been trying for years to get her the help

she needs. She has had a dimwit of a therapist who is waaaay out of her league;

and if this therapist has done anything, she's given my mom a new, stronger

sense of b*tchiness and entitlement that she can mask behind the statement

" well, I learned in therapy I need to be honest " or " my therapist says I need to

express my feelings " . In the past 6+ years, I've tried calling her therapist,

psychiatrist, even the primary care physician. I've attended one appointment and

have offered to go to others. I've even inquired about other more qualified

professionals, but to no avail. I've visited her in the inpatient psych ward

after she was admitted for suicidal ideations (which she later denied). I've

researched her symptoms, researched possible therapies, talked with other

psychiatric professionals for advice. I've even reached out to some of her old

friends - those who are no longer on her good side and have seen her in action.

>

> Quite frankly, I'm tired. The last thing I want to do is get a sitter for my

kids and drive 3 hours each way to sit in a room with her and the rest of the

family while she puts on her poor-me-I'm-the-victim act. I have nothing left to

say, except what I've been saying - and have even told her - she has a

personality disorder, a real mental health problem, and she needs to be seeing

someone who specializes in DBT treatment.

>

> I don't think our family has any chance at survival unless we remove the

threat from the picture. I don't even think our own individual therapy is

helping in the family dynamics at all either. 3 out of 4 of us (adult) kids are

in therapy for this. And when 2 of us removes ourselves from mom's contact, the

other 2 act like we're villains because we've made the situation " worse " for

them by not " helping " mom.

>

> Anyways, I ended up just telling my Dad I would think about it. I was honest

and said I am hesitant to put myself in the line of fire, even if it's with a

trained therapist who is on board with her diagnosis....because I don't think

any of it will ever change until SHE changes. And if she hasn't gotten the

message yet that she's sick, after everything I've already tried, then I'm not

sure she ever will.

>

> Talking to him was actually a nice reminder as to WHY I have been NC from

her...apparently last night she was again hospitalized because she thought she

was having a heart attack...turns out it was another panic attack. Shocker.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

My own personal take on this is that going to a family therapist to treat an

underlying personality disorder condition is like going to the dentist when

you're having chest pains and should be heading to an ER where a cardiologist

can help you.

A dentist can be a truly excellent dentist but have NO qualifications to

diagnose or effectively treat a cardiac patient in the throes of a heart attack.

So, getting a proper diagnosis (from a psychiatrist) is important, seems to me,

and then finding a psychologist who is both able and willing to treat a patient

with personality disorder are crucial issues. And getting the patient to stay

in therapy is another key issue, because those with pds *generally* are not

willing to stay in therapy.

When its explained to someone with a pd that there are problems within their own

self, that their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are destructive and harmful

to themselves and to their loved ones, the person with pd can't handle that

information. It shatters their fragile core sense of selfhood, so they stop

going to therapy.

It is a conundrum, an unsolvable puzzle, when a person is unwilling to admit

that they have a personality disorder and will either refuse to go into therapy

entirely, or will only go as long as they can have a diagnosis that absolves

them of any personal responsibility for their condition (depression, anxiety,

psychosis, etc.)

-Annie

>

> Last/Carolina -

>

> There's an old joke about the kid who was so ugly his parents had to tie a

pork chop around his leg so the dog would play with him. That sort of sums up

my mother's relationships with her therapists over the years. They have been a

kind of " paid friends " - since she was paying them for their time, they would

sit there and listen to her version of reality for an hour, and she would leave

thinking (of course!!) that she was absolutely right about everything, justified

in feeling the way she did about every perceived slight or injustice done to her

by family, colleagues, and the world in general.

>

> I don't know if they were so inept they didn't see the BPD, or if she's just

such a good actress that she had them as snowed as she had all of her enablers.

Maybe they were dealing with her (real) bipolar and depression problems, and

they didn't get into the BPD because she was constantly creating drama. I don't

know - all I remember is being hauled into family therapy when my dad got sick,

trying to tell the therapist that my mother was bankrupting the family by using

" retail therapy " at the mall, and having the therapist look at me like I was a

blank wall.

>

> I think therapists can do a world of good, when the patient or family is

receptive. I just didn't see therapy doing my mom any good, because like your

Nada, mine used therapy as " official permission " to continue doing whatever she

wanted. After going to two family therapy sessions, I realized I was just going

to be one of (several) punching bags and that the therapist wasn't going to call

my mom on her crap, so I didn't waste the time or the gas money any more.

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOW three hours each way. That is a LOT. The only thing I have to add is that

this could be a chance for you to set boundaries, with a professional. You

could go to therapy to state your boundaries. You could, if you want, refuse to

discuss anything else. Just be a broken record. " I won't put up with you doing

this or that " or whatever.

Deanna

>

> Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I think my immediate response

was " hell no " - mainly because I've been trying for years to get her the help

she needs. She has had a dimwit of a therapist who is waaaay out of her league;

and if this therapist has done anything, she's given my mom a new, stronger

sense of b*tchiness and entitlement that she can mask behind the statement

" well, I learned in therapy I need to be honest " or " my therapist says I need to

express my feelings " . In the past 6+ years, I've tried calling her therapist,

psychiatrist, even the primary care physician. I've attended one appointment and

have offered to go to others. I've even inquired about other more qualified

professionals, but to no avail. I've visited her in the inpatient psych ward

after she was admitted for suicidal ideations (which she later denied). I've

researched her symptoms, researched possible therapies, talked with other

psychiatric professionals for advice. I've even reached out to some of her old

friends - those who are no longer on her good side and have seen her in action.

>

> Quite frankly, I'm tired. The last thing I want to do is get a sitter for my

kids and drive 3 hours each way to sit in a room with her and the rest of the

family while she puts on her poor-me-I'm-the-victim act. I have nothing left to

say, except what I've been saying - and have even told her - she has a

personality disorder, a real mental health problem, and she needs to be seeing

someone who specializes in DBT treatment.

>

> I don't think our family has any chance at survival unless we remove the

threat from the picture. I don't even think our own individual therapy is

helping in the family dynamics at all either. 3 out of 4 of us (adult) kids are

in therapy for this. And when 2 of us removes ourselves from mom's contact, the

other 2 act like we're villains because we've made the situation " worse " for

them by not " helping " mom.

>

> Anyways, I ended up just telling my Dad I would think about it. I was honest

and said I am hesitant to put myself in the line of fire, even if it's with a

trained therapist who is on board with her diagnosis....because I don't think

any of it will ever change until SHE changes. And if she hasn't gotten the

message yet that she's sick, after everything I've already tried, then I'm not

sure she ever will.

>

> Talking to him was actually a nice reminder as to WHY I have been NC from

her...apparently last night she was again hospitalized because she thought she

was having a heart attack...turns out it was another panic attack. Shocker.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

I think you articulated your choice very well and I 100% support you. NC it is.

>

> Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I think my immediate response

was " hell no " - mainly because I've been trying for years to get her the help

she needs. She has had a dimwit of a therapist who is waaaay out of her league;

and if this therapist has done anything, she's given my mom a new, stronger

sense of b*tchiness and entitlement that she can mask behind the statement

" well, I learned in therapy I need to be honest " or " my therapist says I need to

express my feelings " . In the past 6+ years, I've tried calling her therapist,

psychiatrist, even the primary care physician. I've attended one appointment and

have offered to go to others. I've even inquired about other more qualified

professionals, but to no avail. I've visited her in the inpatient psych ward

after she was admitted for suicidal ideations (which she later denied). I've

researched her symptoms, researched possible therapies, talked with other

psychiatric professionals for advice. I've even reached out to some of her old

friends - those who are no longer on her good side and have seen her in action.

>

> Quite frankly, I'm tired. The last thing I want to do is get a sitter for my

kids and drive 3 hours each way to sit in a room with her and the rest of the

family while she puts on her poor-me-I'm-the-victim act. I have nothing left to

say, except what I've been saying - and have even told her - she has a

personality disorder, a real mental health problem, and she needs to be seeing

someone who specializes in DBT treatment.

>

> I don't think our family has any chance at survival unless we remove the

threat from the picture. I don't even think our own individual therapy is

helping in the family dynamics at all either. 3 out of 4 of us (adult) kids are

in therapy for this. And when 2 of us removes ourselves from mom's contact, the

other 2 act like we're villains because we've made the situation " worse " for

them by not " helping " mom.

>

> Anyways, I ended up just telling my Dad I would think about it. I was honest

and said I am hesitant to put myself in the line of fire, even if it's with a

trained therapist who is on board with her diagnosis....because I don't think

any of it will ever change until SHE changes. And if she hasn't gotten the

message yet that she's sick, after everything I've already tried, then I'm not

sure she ever will.

>

> Talking to him was actually a nice reminder as to WHY I have been NC from

her...apparently last night she was again hospitalized because she thought she

was having a heart attack...turns out it was another panic attack. Shocker.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>