Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 xyz and Chloe, my dad says you need a " Thick Skin " when dealing with BP mother and BP step-mother. The definition of Thick Skin is, [paraphrase] to not take it personal and realize that they (the BP) are honestly doing the best they know how to. The problem is that, if you do not have a thick skin, you just don't have it. It is not like borrowing a jacket that you can just put on when you need it. My dad developed somewhat of a thick skin because he was the youngest in his family. His older brother and father buffered him quite a bit from BP mother. Whenever BP mother would start behaving irrational, they would counsel him. For instance, they might say, " never mind her, she is just being crazy again. " This help him not take things personally later in life (a thick skin). However, my brother and I had no buffer, so we learned to take everything personal. How is a child supposed to do anything different unless there is some sort of intervention. My dad gave up and became a work-o-holic and became indifferent to what was going on in the house; he did not buffer my brother and I like he had been. Children cannot buffer themselves. Nor can an adult child develop a thick skin without help. You can't buy it. If you are an adult child of a BP parent and you were not buffered from the BP parent, then you most likely do not have a thick skin. You automatically take things personally and you are naturally defensive. I was like this until I entered therapy. In order to get a thick skin, I think we must seek out an intervention. Science has shown that professional help from a qualified and train mental health professional is the best way to develop that thick skin (otherwise coined a sense of self). However, religion is the most common effort and is one I had tried many times in my life, but this is not an effective means in my experience. Religion is good for some things, but not childhood abuse/trauma/neglect/abandonment. Religion only put a wet blanket over the pain and lull me into a false reality, that everything was OK and that Jesus took my pain away from me (no disrespect, but he didn't). However, every time I came into contact with BP mother or ex-BPW or any other dysfunctional situation, I still got angry and upset. I had terrible dreams about my mother that caused me to wake up in a sweat, grinding my teeth in anger. 12 step programs did not help either. 12 steps are great for some things, but not the things we deal with as adult children of BP parents. In therapy, I basically gained a substitute parent, who gave me that buffer that I needed as a child, but didn't get. Since I was an adult and less amendable, specialized training was necessary to help me disarm all our dysfunctional defenses, which had become very engrained and resistant to change. I no longer grind my teeth at night, have nightmares, or act defensively when in dysfunctional situations. It took 4 years of therapy, but it was worth it. I changed on a paradigm level. I am a strong advocate for professional help. I tried a lot of other things that either didn't help or made things worse. My skin is much thicker now and I am happier than ever before. Life is no utopia, no land of milk and honey, nor a heavenly city with streets of gold; it is just more " real. " I am very fortunate to have received the help that I did and hope others will read my testimony and give therapy a shot too. > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I think this is a very profound and important insight that you have explained, and it makes a lot of sense to me, RE, the therapist being the enlightened witness, the validating adult, the buffer we all needed as children. Thank you for sharing this insight. I think it absolutely fits in my own case; there was nobody, not one adult, to tell me that my mother was mentally ill, that she had absurdly unrealistic expectations of us, that her parenting style was actually abusive, and that I shouldn't take what she said and did to me personally. Why did no one buffer me or validate me? Because my mother was able to rein in her worst and most abusive behaviors for when we were alone together, or alone with just me and my little Sister. My nada was usually pretty normal-acting and more emotionally stable when dad was at home, or, she would direct her rages at him instead of at Sister and me. She would ratchet the level of her rage at us kids way down and wouldn't let herself go batshit crazy or physically brutalize Sister or me when dad was home. She was high-functioning enough to control herself in that way. On top of that, she could portray the very picture of the gentle, tolerant, patient, long-suffering mother in front of other adults. But I learned pretty early on that I couldn't use the opportunity of being in public to act out even a little; payback would only be delayed until we were in the car or behind closed doors. Dad never spoke negatively about our mother to us, his whole life. He was very loyal that way. The most he would ever say is that " Your mother is " high-strung " (meaning " nervous " ) so you have to be good girls and do what your mother says and keep her happy. " So, he was basically telling us, " You're on your own. If you make her mad, you know what the consequences will be. " He simply wasn't aware of how extreme she could get with us, and we were too ashamed, embarrassed and afraid to even bring it up with him. Mother made us believe that we deserved such treatment. She was careful to only spank us or beat us with the belt where the marks wouldn't show: our backs, buttocks and the backs of our legs. She was clever that way. The hand print from a slap would fade quickly, and hitting us on the head didn't show. So whenever my mother would go off the deep end and descend into one of her red-faced, spittle-flying, pupil-dilated screaming rages, and would screech in my face that it was my fault that she would become so angry and spank, slap, or beat me with the belt, because I was so bad, or so stupid, or so useless, or so ungrateful, etc... OF COURSE I took it personally; what else can a child do in such a case? Your insight makes it all the more important to me, anyway, that we as adults, whenever we have the opportunity, should make the effort to be enlightened witnesses, and give validation and emotional support and buffering to the children of abusive, mentally ill parents, so these kids can grow a thicker skin earlier in life, and withstand the damage better. -Annie > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 , Wow, that really resonated with me! I fight so hard not to take things personally and I am always naturally defensive, to the point where I feel like I survived a war. Maybe that is why so many of us have anxiety issues. How do we go about finding a therapist that understands these issues? I have tried to find a therapist before, but I had no idea how to find the right one so I gave up and tried to deal with everything myself. natalia > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 " Jesus took my pain away from me (no disrespect, but he didn't) " Ha ha this made me smile. i also grew up with a lot of spiritual abuse. i think even if you find comfort and healing in a religion you can understand that Jesus doesn't just take all the pain away. you have to work and work and work and work. And even then it still hurts but maybe you can find a balance between pain and joy. On to the real topic " Thick Skin " Yes I've heard that a million times from my dad. Let me decode it for you, its actually a secret code language that only an enabler can speak. What it mean is - " Please don't be hurt by your mother's horrible behavior because that makes my job of keeping homeostasis in this family in tact more difficult. I can't agree with you because it means she will turn her evil laser eye on me and attack me and my skin isn't thick enough to take it. And it is easier for me to control you than it is to control her, so stop feeling right now! " It also means " Our family is dysfunctional. We operate under the rules don't talk, don't feel and don't tell. You are breaking the first 2 of these rules. You need to thicken up your skin and shut up, stop sharing and stop feeling. And stop it now because you are rocking my precariously perched boat and if you capsize it I will never be able to get this family back under control again. " I call bullshit on the thick skin. No one has it. It means mom is an asshole and you are supposed to bend over and take whatever she wants to dish out simply because it makes it easier for dad to enable her shitty behavior. God enablers really piss me off sometimes!!!!!!!!!! > ** > > > > > , > > Wow, that really resonated with me! I fight so hard not to take things > personally and I am always naturally defensive, to the point where I feel > like I survived a war. Maybe that is why so many of us have anxiety issues. > > How do we go about finding a therapist that understands these issues? I > have tried to find a therapist before, but I had no idea how to find the > right one so I gave up and tried to deal with everything myself. > > natalia > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 bpdcentral has a page on finding a therapist, but it looks like it might be geared for BPD therapy. It might be helpful: http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/therapist/main.php When I got started, I did not have a lot of money. So I did not have a lot of choice. I did an intake at my local community mental health center and got a therapist that was fairly new; she was finishing her residency. But she was really good for me; I lucked out. When my grant ran out, I went to a clinic where all the therapist were students. One of the students I was his first client ever. Beggers can't be choosers and I took whatever I could get. Finally, I qualified for medicare and I got to work with a very experienced therapist for over a year. This was very helpful. He diagnosed me with a DX that fit me well (Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder). I had to move, so switched to a therapist in my area that was not as experienced. Basically, get the most experienced therapist with the most training as you can and make it work. Therapy is a joint commitment. I always considered myself as being in charge of my therapy and my medical treatment plan. Even when all I had was a therapist whom I was his first client ever, I made it work and he was able to partner with me and help me get my identity a little stronger. He was just a kid, fresh out of undergrad. I was old enough to be his father, but we made it work, because it had to. I was a single father and my daughter needed a mentally healthy dad. I was willing to do anything to get better. If you have insurance, call them to find out where to go. If you don't have insurance and have limited income, search for community services that offer sliding scale payment arrangements. Many areas have grant program that cost you nothing if you are low income. Some therapist are willing to take partial payments until your finances improve. Seek and you will find. If you want it bad enough, there will be a way. I hope this helps. The answer to your question is any therapist is better than no therapist, but get the best one you can. > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Thanks again . I will check it out. Sometimes it's hard to imagine telling someone else all about this stuff....I mean old friends know, but to think about telling this to someone new..a stranger, it makes me feel exhausted and humiliated at the same time. natalia > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I hope that you will be able to let the inappropriate, misplaced shame trickle away; that is one of the worst legacies of having been abused during our formative years by our mentally ill parents, is being made to feel like we *deserved* the abuse, because we caused it for being such bad or defective or unlovable human beings. That is the worst lie they feed us. I truly believe that shedding the inappropriate shame and guilt is one of the keys to healing from the damage done to us. Its hard to wrap our brainwashed minds that our own parents lied to us and used us in this way, that the shame is theirs, not ours, and they forced a little child to carry their shame, their responsibilities and their guilt for them. Its a paradigm shift in thinking, but its a huge step toward our own mental health and healing. I think that when I go see my very, very mentally ill mother (borderline pd, narcissistic pd, with some traits of aspd and histrionic pd, and traits of obsessive-compulsive pd, and now Alzheimers) this fall, I will be able to look at her, look into her eyes, and feel not one shred of shame, or an ounce of guilt for my actions. I will be able to look at my mother and feel pity, but no responsibility for her feelings at all. None. I will do what I can to help Sister care for her physical and medical needs, meaning, I will contribute to keeping her cared for as well as possible in the Alzheimer's residential care home, for as long as possible. But I have no responsibility to make her happy with herself, inside herself. That's her responsibility, or was. I believe I am now able to absolve myself, and accept that I have done nothing to feel guilty about, nothing to feel ashamed of. I withdrew from my mother because she is a hot stove that burned me, and there is no shame in jerking your hand away from a hot stove to save it from burning. -Annie > > > > Thanks again . I will check it out. Sometimes it's hard to imagine telling someone else all about this stuff....I mean old friends know, but to think about telling this to someone new..a stranger, it makes me feel exhausted and humiliated at the same time. > > natalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Ya, I totally hear what you are saying. I felt the same way when I start therapy. I vowed I would not cry, because I thought I would not be able to handle the embarrassment and same if I did cry in front of a stranger. I got through the intake ok, but the second session connected with my heart fast and strong. All I did for the first two months was cry. Sometimes I would cry so hard I had to breath with a paper bag over my mouth, to prevent hyperventilation. I had to learn how to cry. That is what therapy is all about. If you are not crying, something is wrong and you should probably switch therapist. Crying is what we have been denied as children; we were not allowed to cry. When we cried as children, we were made to feel bad by the BP parent. It is no wonder we try so hard not to ever cry. But crying is absolutely necessary; it is natural and healthy and we have a lot of catching up to do. Once you get over the fear, crying becomes a good thing. It is the first stage of healing. It will be scary at first, you will apologize for it and try to hold it back, but eventually you will learn to let it flow naturally. It is ok to cry, even if you are a man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Girlscout, you are also right. However, we don't have to be angry anymore. We are adults; we have the option to heal and let go of the anger. There are all kinds of " assholes " in this world, but we don't have to let them control us anymore. We can start being ourselves, despite the " assholes. " We can find peace. I assure you, it is possible. I did it Well, I still get angry; everyone does. I just don't let it steal my joy. Their being an " asshole " has nothing to do with me; the are an " asshole " because they did not get what they needed in childhood, like we didn't. You are a fighter; we are alike in that aspect. We did the only thing we knew how to do in response to abuse; we fight back. Even as children, we knew something was wrong and it wasn't all me. We learned how to be defensive and rebellious. I feel sorry for those that did not fight. However, as we grew to adulthood, this defensiveness started getting us in trouble. It affected our relationships with friends, employers, authorities...everyone. We are not in harmony with the world around us and we don't know why. We are still under the assumption that something is wrong and it is not us. But it is us; we have become too defensive and jumpy. I totally understand what you are saying. I have been there and am still recovering. What happened to us as children hurt. It sucked. We can heal though. We deserve to heal. We deserve not to be angry anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Great points - if someone has the experience of a caring validating nurturing figure in childhood, that gets internalized into the psyche. So in a way a child can be " given " a thick skin by being given enough of that experience by a caring adult. And as an adult if the therapeutic relationship is good enough it can start to function in that same role. I never had anyone growing up to say my mother was acting crazy even when she really was and of course the worst of it was with no witnesses. I came across an old diary from when I was about eleven that really shocked me one time - in it I talked about how I was bad and always screwing up, how my mother was going to be mad at me again. It was so sad because I had completely bought this view of myself - and I was a straight A student who never got into trouble. In one particular entry the terrible sin I had committed was that she had told me to tell some relatives visiting from another town some driving instructions on how to get to our house. I tried to tell them the right thing but they got lost and she was furious. I was eleven, I did not even know how to drive! How was I supposed to give instructions about freeways, exits, roads? But there was no one to witness her anger, no one to tell me it's crazy to ask a person who doesn't drive to give another person driving directions. All I knew was my mother was mad at me AGAIN and I was the bad one. No chance of having a thick skin there. Eliza > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a thick skin with someone you love? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Ha ha ha PDFF actually I have never in my life had problems like the ones you mention because of anger. I've had lots and lots of problems because I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. Anger had never been a problem for me - except in the sense of inverting it into shame and depression - in fact, i find accessing it to be quite empowering. Its been a difficult practice for me - to actually feel it is ok to respond from a place of anger rather than cowtowing. It's something I plan to continue to work on for a while yet. On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 2:10 PM, eliza92@... < eliza92@...> wrote: > ** > > > Great points - if someone has the experience of a caring validating > nurturing figure in childhood, that gets internalized into the psyche. So in > a way a child can be " given " a thick skin by being given enough of that > experience by a caring adult. And as an adult if the therapeutic > relationship is good enough it can start to function in that same role. I > never had anyone growing up to say my mother was acting crazy even when she > really was and of course the worst of it was with no witnesses. I came > across an old diary from when I was about eleven that really shocked me one > time - in it I talked about how I was bad and always screwing up, how my > mother was going to be mad at me again. It was so sad because I had > completely bought this view of myself - and I was a straight A student who > never got into trouble. > > In one particular entry the terrible sin I had committed was that she had > told me to tell some relatives visiting from another town some driving > instructions on how to get to our house. I tried to tell them the right > thing but they got lost and she was furious. I was eleven, I did not even > know how to drive! How was I supposed to give instructions about freeways, > exits, roads? But there was no one to witness her anger, no one to tell me > it's crazy to ask a person who doesn't drive to give another person driving > directions. All I knew was my mother was mad at me AGAIN and I was the bad > one. No chance of having a thick skin there. > > Eliza > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 girlscout, maybe you are not like me as a child. I was a fighter toward my abuser; coined oppositional/defiant. I was always that way, but it got much worse as puberty kicked in. The more defiant I became, the more abusive BP mother was. We were the perfect storm. I became a very dark and depressed person. As a result, our family was high conflict. What I needed was someone to acknowledge the truth, that something was very wrong and I was not to blame. I knew that something was wrong, but no one was acknowledging it. BP mother would spin her reality to everyone so that they thought I was the problem. All she had to do is point to my behavior. I was the perfect scape goat I suppose. Everyone just assumed I was a bad kid and my mom was so good at being the victim/martyr. She did all the right things, she was a leader at our church, attending 12 step meetings for co-dependent parents, active at my school. No one had a clue what really happened in our family. Everyone was perfectly duped into thinking I was the problem and my poor mother was just a long suffering victim. I was never shown or guided how to handle the abuse, so I did what came natural to me. I think I was different than most kids; most kids do exactly as you describe, " I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. " That just never made sense to me; it still doesn't. As a child, retaliation made sense. No one was around to show me anything else. I lashed out at my abuser, regardless off the consequences. As far as I was concerned, it was a death match (metaphorically). If mom wanted to fight, I was going to give her the fight of her life. Things probably would have got really bad if the divorce had not happened. My parents split custody, so that my brother went with my mom and I went with my dad. My brother always wanted to be with dad too, I was the lucky one. My dad was good for me. He was never good at nurture, but he was non-judgmental and that was important, because I still had a lot of acting out to do. Going into my teen years, I had a lot of anger stored inside, because of my mother. No matter what I did, his love never changed (unlike BP-mother's conditional love). I could have used some nurture, but that just was not in the cards for my childhood. I am fortunate to have had some unconditional love after the divorce. That is my story. My brother was the compliant one and he is dead now, due to a heroin overdose. The enduring pain and self loathing that he felt was too much for him. His only escape was heroin. Soon heroin at non-lethal levels could not contain the pain and he kept inching closer and closer to lethal doses. One day he got too close and died. He did not mean to die, he was only trying to find relief and the highest doses of heroin were no longer working. My brother was not open to mental health, but had he gone, I am certain he would have been diagnosed with BPD. His pain was much greater than mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I was also a fighter towards my abusers - my parents. When they screamed at me, I'd scream back. When they hit me, I'd hit back. When they said horrible things to me, I'd say horrible things back. Actually, I didn't start hitting back until I was 14 or so. Yes, my parents and I were, as you put it, " the perfect storm. " Outside of the home, I was a peaceful, good-natured person who didn't have an anger problem at all, probably because no one outside the home screamed at me, hit me, or said horrible things to me. My parents had, of course, seen me interacting with others, and took every occasion to remind me how my screaming and hitting behavior was the REAL me, and if anyone found out what I was really like, they'd hate me. So of course I believed them. And I internalized that belief to a huge degree, and have not been able to get rid of it, despite years and years of therapy, and despite decades of being an easygoing, nonviolent and non-abusive person. So I always feel that if someone gets to know the real me, they'll hate me. I, like you, needed someone to step in and tell me my behavior was not my fault, and that I had a right to defend myself from abuse. But that didn't happen. I didn't talk to anyone outside the family about it. I did try a few times but gave up, because either they didn't believe me or their attitude was that it was just a family thing that shouldn't be discussed. It wasn't until I was in my 30s, and I was in the hospital for depression and an eating disorder, that I was told by staff, after I had described my parents' behavior, and how they had treated me, and after the staff had had some pretty horrible conversations with my parents, that I was told that they were sick, toxic people. But my extended family (small as it is) believed my parents when they told them what a terrible person I was (never mind that I was drug-and-alcohol free and a straight-A student), and still want nothing to do with me. Judy > ** > > > girlscout, maybe you are not like me as a child. I was a fighter toward my > abuser; coined oppositional/defiant. I was always that way, but it got much > worse as puberty kicked in. The more defiant I became, the more abusive BP > mother was. We were the perfect storm. I became a very dark and depressed > person. > > As a result, our family was high conflict. What I needed was someone to > acknowledge the truth, that something was very wrong and I was not to blame. > I knew that something was wrong, but no one was acknowledging it. BP mother > would spin her reality to everyone so that they thought I was the problem. > All she had to do is point to my behavior. I was the perfect scape goat I > suppose. Everyone just assumed I was a bad kid and my mom was so good at > being the victim/martyr. She did all the right things, she was a leader at > our church, attending 12 step meetings for co-dependent parents, active at > my school. No one had a clue what really happened in our family. Everyone > was perfectly duped into thinking I was the problem and my poor mother was > just a long suffering victim. > > I was never shown or guided how to handle the abuse, so I did what came > natural to me. I think I was different than most kids; most kids do exactly > as you describe, " I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please > and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. " That > just never made sense to me; it still doesn't. As a child, retaliation made > sense. No one was around to show me anything else. > > I lashed out at my abuser, regardless off the consequences. As far as I was > concerned, it was a death match (metaphorically). If mom wanted to fight, I > was going to give her the fight of her life. Things probably would have got > really bad if the divorce had not happened. My parents split custody, so > that my brother went with my mom and I went with my dad. My brother always > wanted to be with dad too, I was the lucky one. > > My dad was good for me. He was never good at nurture, but he was > non-judgmental and that was important, because I still had a lot of acting > out to do. Going into my teen years, I had a lot of anger stored inside, > because of my mother. No matter what I did, his love never changed (unlike > BP-mother's conditional love). I could have used some nurture, but that just > was not in the cards for my childhood. I am fortunate to have had some > unconditional love after the divorce. > > That is my story. My brother was the compliant one and he is dead now, due > to a heroin overdose. The enduring pain and self loathing that he felt was > too much for him. His only escape was heroin. Soon heroin at non-lethal > levels could not contain the pain and he kept inching closer and closer to > lethal doses. One day he got too close and died. He did not mean to die, he > was only trying to find relief and the highest doses of heroin were no > longer working. My brother was not open to mental health, but had he gone, I > am certain he would have been diagnosed with BPD. His pain was much greater > than mine. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I personally believe that you've stated an accurate point: the children of abusive, personality-disordered parents who have the inner resilience to fight back manage to survive their childhood somewhat less damaged than the children with less resilience who are overwhelmed and absorbed by their abusive parent, " broken " (their own will and sense of individuality is destroyed) and forced into compliant enmeshment. In my own case, I was less resilient, I was mostly the " golden " child because I was " broken " pretty early on in life and became enmeshed with nada and dad well into adulthood, while my younger Sister, the " all bad " child, the " scapegoat " child of the family, managed to individuate earlier in life, to separate physically and emotionally from our parents, and have a more well-rounded and normal adult life than I have had. So, let's hear it for the fighters! -Annie > > girlscout, maybe you are not like me as a child. I was a fighter toward my abuser; coined oppositional/defiant. I was always that way, but it got much worse as puberty kicked in. The more defiant I became, the more abusive BP mother was. We were the perfect storm. I became a very dark and depressed person. > > As a result, our family was high conflict. What I needed was someone to acknowledge the truth, that something was very wrong and I was not to blame. I knew that something was wrong, but no one was acknowledging it. BP mother would spin her reality to everyone so that they thought I was the problem. All she had to do is point to my behavior. I was the perfect scape goat I suppose. Everyone just assumed I was a bad kid and my mom was so good at being the victim/martyr. She did all the right things, she was a leader at our church, attending 12 step meetings for co-dependent parents, active at my school. No one had a clue what really happened in our family. Everyone was perfectly duped into thinking I was the problem and my poor mother was just a long suffering victim. > > I was never shown or guided how to handle the abuse, so I did what came natural to me. I think I was different than most kids; most kids do exactly as you describe, " I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. " That just never made sense to me; it still doesn't. As a child, retaliation made sense. No one was around to show me anything else. > > I lashed out at my abuser, regardless off the consequences. As far as I was concerned, it was a death match (metaphorically). If mom wanted to fight, I was going to give her the fight of her life. Things probably would have got really bad if the divorce had not happened. My parents split custody, so that my brother went with my mom and I went with my dad. My brother always wanted to be with dad too, I was the lucky one. > > My dad was good for me. He was never good at nurture, but he was non-judgmental and that was important, because I still had a lot of acting out to do. Going into my teen years, I had a lot of anger stored inside, because of my mother. No matter what I did, his love never changed (unlike BP-mother's conditional love). I could have used some nurture, but that just was not in the cards for my childhood. I am fortunate to have had some unconditional love after the divorce. > > That is my story. My brother was the compliant one and he is dead now, due to a heroin overdose. The enduring pain and self loathing that he felt was too much for him. His only escape was heroin. Soon heroin at non-lethal levels could not contain the pain and he kept inching closer and closer to lethal doses. One day he got too close and died. He did not mean to die, he was only trying to find relief and the highest doses of heroin were no longer working. My brother was not open to mental health, but had he gone, I am certain he would have been diagnosed with BPD. His pain was much greater than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 My BPD Mom tried while I was still at school to say: if they knew the real shouting angry you, no one would want to continue being your friend. Well, I did scream back at her and shout back the words right back at her - but not as loud as we could as we were afraid she would come back and slap us. Anyway, I didn't believe her at the time, I was a straight A student as well and voted " friendliest " and " most athletic " in school, plus I got the most calls out of anyone in the house - I had that for validation, otherwise, God knows how I would have felt! So I guess I was lucky I had school for validation! My brother and I were a team - us against Mom, and by God did we fight back, she called us the " gang " , and in a way, we still are. Though for a few of our college years she tried to split us up by telling lies to each of us, about the other. She succeeded in parting us for a while, we hated each other for a while, but after a few years we found what she did to us and decided she'd never get thru to parting us again - and we are thick as thieves now. N > I personally believe that you've stated an accurate point: the children of abusive, personality-disordered parents who have the inner resilience to fight back manage to survive their childhood somewhat less damaged than the children with less resilience who are overwhelmed and absorbed by their abusive parent, " broken " (their own will and sense of individuality is destroyed) and forced into compliant enmeshment. > > In my own case, I was less resilient, I was mostly the " golden " child because I was " broken " pretty early on in life and became enmeshed with nada and dad well into adulthood, while my younger Sister, the " all bad " child, the " scapegoat " child of the family, managed to individuate earlier in life, to separate physically and emotionally from our parents, and have a more well-rounded and normal adult life than I have had. > > So, let's hear it for the fighters! > > -Annie > > > > > > girlscout, maybe you are not like me as a child. I was a fighter toward my abuser; coined oppositional/defiant. I was always that way, but it got much worse as puberty kicked in. The more defiant I became, the more abusive BP mother was. We were the perfect storm. I became a very dark and depressed person. > > > > As a result, our family was high conflict. What I needed was someone to acknowledge the truth, that something was very wrong and I was not to blame. I knew that something was wrong, but no one was acknowledging it. BP mother would spin her reality to everyone so that they thought I was the problem. All she had to do is point to my behavior. I was the perfect scape goat I suppose. Everyone just assumed I was a bad kid and my mom was so good at being the victim/martyr. She did all the right things, she was a leader at our church, attending 12 step meetings for co-dependent parents, active at my school. No one had a clue what really happened in our family. Everyone was perfectly duped into thinking I was the problem and my poor mother was just a long suffering victim. > > > > I was never shown or guided how to handle the abuse, so I did what came natural to me. I think I was different than most kids; most kids do exactly as you describe, " I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. " That just never made sense to me; it still doesn't. As a child, retaliation made sense. No one was around to show me anything else. > > > > I lashed out at my abuser, regardless off the consequences. As far as I was concerned, it was a death match (metaphorically). If mom wanted to fight, I was going to give her the fight of her life. Things probably would have got really bad if the divorce had not happened. My parents split custody, so that my brother went with my mom and I went with my dad. My brother always wanted to be with dad too, I was the lucky one. > > > > My dad was good for me. He was never good at nurture, but he was non-judgmental and that was important, because I still had a lot of acting out to do. Going into my teen years, I had a lot of anger stored inside, because of my mother. No matter what I did, his love never changed (unlike BP-mother's conditional love). I could have used some nurture, but that just was not in the cards for my childhood. I am fortunate to have had some unconditional love after the divorce. > > > > That is my story. My brother was the compliant one and he is dead now, due to a heroin overdose. The enduring pain and self loathing that he felt was too much for him. His only escape was heroin. Soon heroin at non-lethal levels could not contain the pain and he kept inching closer and closer to lethal doses. One day he got too close and died. He did not mean to die, he was only trying to find relief and the highest doses of heroin were no longer working. My brother was not open to mental health, but had he gone, I am certain he would have been diagnosed with BPD. His pain was much greater than mine. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I HATE that thing that personality disordered parents do: its like they are cursing us. Like a witch casting an evil spell, the pd parent points at her child and pronounces, " You are (bad, ugly, stupid, a waste of space, no good, unlovable, evil, etc.,) and nobody who gets to really know you will love you. " The curse of the pd parent. And some, like my nada, follow their curse with, " ... but I love you anyway, you disgusting, repulsive piece of crap, because I'm your mother and I have to. " Yes: outside validation is crucial. Absolutely crucial for healing, in my opinion. The abuse victim needs reassurance and validation that the abuse was NOT deserved, was NOT his or her fault, and it happened only because the abuser/the parent is mentally ill and toxic. In my opinion. -Annie > > I was also a fighter towards my abusers - my parents. When they screamed at > me, I'd scream back. When they hit me, I'd hit back. When they said horrible > things to me, I'd say horrible things back. Actually, I didn't start hitting > back until I was 14 or so. Yes, my parents and I were, as you put it, " the > perfect storm. " > Outside of the home, I was a peaceful, good-natured person who didn't have > an anger problem at all, probably because no one outside the home screamed > at me, hit me, or said horrible things to me. > My parents had, of course, seen me interacting with others, and took every > occasion to remind me how my screaming and hitting behavior was the REAL me, > and if anyone found out what I was really like, they'd hate me. > So of course I believed them. And I internalized that belief to a huge > degree, and have not been able to get rid of it, despite years and years of > therapy, and despite decades of being an easygoing, nonviolent and > non-abusive person. So I always feel that if someone gets to know the real > me, they'll hate me. > I, like you, needed someone to step in and tell me my behavior was not my > fault, and that I had a right to defend myself from abuse. But that didn't > happen. I didn't talk to anyone outside the family about it. I did try a few > times but gave up, because either they didn't believe me or their attitude > was that it was just a family thing that shouldn't be discussed. It wasn't > until I was in my 30s, and I was in the hospital for depression and an > eating disorder, that I was told by staff, after I had described my parents' > behavior, and how they had treated me, and after the staff had had some > pretty horrible conversations with my parents, that I was told that they > were sick, toxic people. > But my extended family (small as it is) believed my parents when they told > them what a terrible person I was (never mind that I was drug-and-alcohol > free and a straight-A student), and still want nothing to do with me. > Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 That's wonderful, I'm glad your brother and you are a " team " ! Freakin' " A " for awesome. My younger Sister and I became friends in adulthood, and its really important to me that I have her friendship and validation. I am grateful for it. We have each other's backs, and its awesome too. -Annie > > My BPD Mom tried while I was still at school to say: if they knew the real shouting angry you, no one would want to continue being your friend. Well, I did scream back at her and shout back the words right back at her - but not as loud as we could as we were afraid she would come back and slap us. Anyway, I didn't believe her at the time, I was a straight A student as well and voted " friendliest " and " most athletic " in school, plus I got the most calls out of anyone in the house - I had that for validation, otherwise, God knows how I would have felt! So I guess I was lucky I had school for validation! My brother and I were a team - us against Mom, and by God did we fight back, she called us the " gang " , and in a way, we still are. Though for a few of our college years she tried to split us up by telling lies to each of us, about the other. She succeeded in parting us for a while, we hated each other for a while, but after a few years we found what she did to us and decided she'd never get thru to parting us again - and we are thick as thieves now. > > N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 That described me perfectly. I never believed the horrible things nada told me, I just hated her for it all. Even as a young kid I rebelled against her and would tell her during her rages, " You won't break me! " . As I got older, I wouldn't take her abuse sitting down, we got into actual physical fights. I just couldn't understand why I was supposed to sit there and allow her to hit me. She wouldn't just smack me, she would throw things at me and even pull the hair out of my head. It was nasty. Her husband even dragged me out of the house one day (middle school age) and beat me with a cast iron pan. When I limped back to the house I said to myself, " Remember this, remember this! " Because I was afraid I was going to block it out and create a repressed memory that would surface someday. I didn't want to deal with that later, I wanted to try to handle it on my own then and there. It didn't really work though, since obviously I am still talking about this, decades later. The one thing that helped me through was a kind of talk therapy I accidentally created for myself. Nada and her monster husband would punish me for MONTHS at a time. Like if I said something wrong, all hell would break loose and instantly get grounded for 4 weeks. Oh, say something else, how about another 4 weeks? Thankfully school was a good refuge. At home, I would sit in my room, with a mirror, and smile at myself and tell myself I was pretty and had a good future and would get away from that hell. I DID IT TOO!!!! Still have the nightmares though...mostly about tornadoes. I read that indicated repressed rage. Natalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > > > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > > > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > > > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > > > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > > > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > > > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > > > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > > > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > > > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > > > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > > > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > > > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > > > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > > > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > > > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > > > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > > > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Parents who beat their children with objects and yank their hair out are criminals in my opinion; such acts are criminal child abuse. If such attacks were to be directed at another adult, your parents would sure as hell be hauled into court on assault and battery charges, would be paying through the nose for damages, and probably be doing some serious jail time. But somehow its " OK " for parents to beat the living crap out of their children; as long as the injuries are just sub-clinical enough to keep the child out of the hospital, and as long as the damage is inflicted on parts of the child's body that can be covered and not easily observed. They call it " parenting " or " tough love " . Yeah. Right. Its just wrong that children have no human rights or civil rights in these matters. (I'm all for making lawyers available to children, so that children can sue their parents on their own behalf, same as an adult, for " divorce " and for child support payments in a different environment, like a nice boarding school, or with nice relatives, etc. Or so children can sue pedophiles who molest them, or sue the bullies who assault them. Make em pay. Get em some jail time. But I'm kind of a radical type in some ways.) Children are made to feel too ashamed of their punishments to speak of them because they are made to feel that the emotional or physical battering was deserved. And the child may feel (or have actually experienced) that if they do tell, they may not be believed, and shamed by the person they confide in as being a liar. Or even worse, if they do tell and they are believed, and the adult they tell then talks to their parents about it, the punishments will probably get even worse. Much worse: the child has added " disloyalty " to his list of crimes, in his parents' eyes. What a fighter you were! Kudos to you! I admire the kids who fought back. I've had the occasional " tornado " nightmare too, but more frequently I have the nightmare of being on the beach, looking out to sea, and seeing a giant, silent wall of water bearing down on me; the most enormous wave you can imagine. Total annihilation, no possible escape. And I've had dreams of less gigantic waves, but still dangerously large ocean waves breaking apart the rocks of the shore, destroying boats, breaking into the building I'm in. Those are probably my nada as well, like the other giant monsters; just in natural disaster form. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to understand, > > > > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways that they > > > > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I have a > > > > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the fact that my > > > > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her a picture > > > > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She pretends > > > > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since she's seen > > > > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it " jumping all > > > > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. So I to > > > > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is hard for > > > > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a newborn and > > > > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not an > > > > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways which she > > > > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am sorry to > > > > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am thinking > > > > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if you can > > > > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on developing a > > > > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 No, I didn't fight back. If you asked my nada, I would be the scapegoat, pure evil. If you asked my fada I would be the hero and caregiver of the family. I swallowed it down. I did slap my nada in the face once around age 14, when I started to come alive. You would have thought I was a dead thing when I was a kid. On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:49 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > Parents who beat their children with objects and yank their hair out are > criminals in my opinion; such acts are criminal child abuse. > > If such attacks were to be directed at another adult, your parents would > sure as hell be hauled into court on assault and battery charges, would be > paying through the nose for damages, and probably be doing some serious jail > time. But somehow its " OK " for parents to beat the living crap out of their > children; as long as the injuries are just sub-clinical enough to keep the > child out of the hospital, and as long as the damage is inflicted on parts > of the child's body that can be covered and not easily observed. They call > it " parenting " or " tough love " . Yeah. Right. > > Its just wrong that children have no human rights or civil rights in these > matters. (I'm all for making lawyers available to children, so that children > can sue their parents on their own behalf, same as an adult, for " divorce " > and for child support payments in a different environment, like a nice > boarding school, or with nice relatives, etc. Or so children can sue > pedophiles who molest them, or sue the bullies who assault them. Make em > pay. Get em some jail time. Butack I'm kind of a radical type in some ways.) > > > Children are made to feel too ashamed of their punishments to speak of them > because they are made to feel that the emotional or physical battering was > deserved. > > And the child may feel (or have actually experienced) that if they do tell, > they may not be believed, and shamed by the person they confide in as being > a liar. Or even worse, if they do tell and they are believed, and the adult > they tell then talks to their parents about it, the punishments will > probably get even worse. Much worse: the child has added " disloyalty " to his > list of crimes, in his parents' eyes. > > What a fighter you were! Kudos to you! I admire the kids who fought back. > > I've had the occasional " tornado " nightmare too, but more frequently I have > the nightmare of being on the beach, looking out to sea, and seeing a giant, > silent wall of water bearing down on me; the most enormous wave you can > imagine. Total annihilation, no possible escape. And I've had dreams of less > gigantic waves, but still dangerously large ocean waves breaking apart the > rocks of the shore, destroying boats, breaking into the building I'm in. > Those are probably my nada as well, like the other giant monsters; just in > natural disaster form. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my first posting too. I am looking for people to > understand, > > > > > because everyone that knows by BPD mother are so used to her ways > that they > > > > > would never be able to conceptualize " unintended " hurtful ways. I > have a > > > > > newborn daughter and my mother is incapable of dealing with the > fact that my > > > > > attention is turned from her and onto my daughter. I even sent her > a picture > > > > > of my daughter in a text and she replies with " who is this. " She > pretends > > > > > she does not recognize her even though it was only a week since > she's seen > > > > > her. I tried to express my feelings to her...but she called it > " jumping all > > > > > over her. " This was my attempt to be thoughtful and I end up hurt. > So I to > > > > > need to learn how to be unaffected by her actions and words. It is > hard for > > > > > me because I just now recognized her BPD traits since having a > newborn and > > > > > was previously enmeshed with her. Cutting her out of my life is not > an > > > > > option, but living with her careless unintentional hurtful ways > which she > > > > > always has an excuse for is internally painful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chloe..treasure that your sister understands your pain. I am > sorry to > > > > > hear about your father...grief is always a painful process. I am > thinking > > > > > having some relationship with your mother is best for you son if > you can > > > > > find the right balance, boundaries and thick skin. Any tips on > developing a > > > > > thick skin with someone you love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Oh, I get those tornado dreams too! To be fair, most of my nightmares are about predators trying to hunt me down, but when I get the natural disaster ones, they're always about tornadoes. Add me to the list of people who fought back. God, my freshman year of high school I went to a private small school about 45 minutes away from our house. Nada had to drive me home every day and my dad told me he actually anticipated a call from her *every day* when we got home about what a horrible daughter I was and how rebellious I was. We seriously got to the point that we wouldn't even make it 2 min. down the road before we were both screaming our heads off at each other. I tried just shutting down and ignoring her completely, but she would just keep poking and prodding until she got a reaction from me. Then she goes and acts like the freaking victim. I was branded as the trouble-making, argumentative kid growing up, then when I moved away to college, the title was passed on to one of my younger brothers. We'll see how long it takes for it to shift to someone else once he's gone... Subject: Re: Got Thick Skin? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:05 PM That described me perfectly. I never believed the horrible things nada told me, I just hated her for it all. Even as a young kid I rebelled against her and would tell her during her rages, " You won't break me! " . As I got older, I wouldn't take her abuse sitting down, we got into actual physical fights. I just couldn't understand why I was supposed to sit there and allow her to hit me. She wouldn't just smack me, she would throw things at me and even pull the hair out of my head. It was nasty. Her husband even dragged me out of the house one day (middle school age) and beat me with a cast iron pan. When I limped back to the house I said to myself, " Remember this, remember this! " Because I was afraid I was going to block it out and create a repressed memory that would surface someday. I didn't want to deal with that later, I wanted to try to handle it on my own then and there. It didn't really work though, since obviously I am still talking about this, decades later. The one thing that helped me through was a kind of talk therapy I accidentally created for myself. Nada and her monster husband would punish me for MONTHS at a time. Like if I said something wrong, all hell would break loose and instantly get grounded for 4 weeks. Oh, say something else, how about another 4 weeks? Thankfully school was a good refuge. At home, I would sit in my room, with a mirror, and smile at myself and tell myself I was pretty and had a good future and would get away from that hell. I DID IT TOO!!!! Still have the nightmares though...mostly about tornadoes. I read that indicated repressed rage. Natalia > > girlscout, maybe you are not like me as a child. I was a fighter toward my abuser; coined oppositional/defiant. I was always that way, but it got much worse as puberty kicked in. The more defiant I became, the more abusive BP mother was. We were the perfect storm. I became a very dark and depressed person. > > As a result, our family was high conflict. What I needed was someone to acknowledge the truth, that something was very wrong and I was not to blame. I knew that something was wrong, but no one was acknowledging it. BP mother would spin her reality to everyone so that they thought I was the problem. All she had to do is point to my behavior. I was the perfect scape goat I suppose. Everyone just assumed I was a bad kid and my mom was so good at being the victim/martyr. She did all the right things, she was a leader at our church, attending 12 step meetings for co-dependent parents, active at my school. No one had a clue what really happened in our family. Everyone was perfectly duped into thinking I was the problem and my poor mother was just a long suffering victim. > > I was never shown or guided how to handle the abuse, so I did what came natural to me. I think I was different than most kids; most kids do exactly as you describe, " I pasted a smile on my face and continued with the please and thank you and how else can I help yous even in the face of abuse. " That just never made sense to me; it still doesn't. As a child, retaliation made sense. No one was around to show me anything else. > > I lashed out at my abuser, regardless off the consequences. As far as I was concerned, it was a death match (metaphorically). If mom wanted to fight, I was going to give her the fight of her life. Things probably would have got really bad if the divorce had not happened. My parents split custody, so that my brother went with my mom and I went with my dad. My brother always wanted to be with dad too, I was the lucky one. > > My dad was good for me. He was never good at nurture, but he was non-judgmental and that was important, because I still had a lot of acting out to do. Going into my teen years, I had a lot of anger stored inside, because of my mother. No matter what I did, his love never changed (unlike BP-mother's conditional love). I could have used some nurture, but that just was not in the cards for my childhood. I am fortunate to have had some unconditional love after the divorce. > > That is my story. My brother was the compliant one and he is dead now, due to a heroin overdose. The enduring pain and self loathing that he felt was too much for him. His only escape was heroin. Soon heroin at non-lethal levels could not contain the pain and he kept inching closer and closer to lethal doses. One day he got too close and died. He did not mean to die, he was only trying to find relief and the highest doses of heroin were no longer working. My brother was not open to mental health, but had he gone, I am certain he would have been diagnosed with BPD. His pain was much greater than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Ah, the " naked in public " dreams. Wow, I haven't had one of those in, well, years and years, now. I used to have those rather often. Weirdly, I was never completely naked; my version of that dream had me either in my underwear in public, or topless. Yes, I can see how that that particular dream would be an expression of feeling anxiety about being too vulnerable in general, or vulnerable to being shamed: public shame. -Annie > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 My nightmares were all about my parent's house aka hoarders nest. My T and I went at it in depth and I haven't had one in ooh 8 months. On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:34 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > Ah, the " naked in public " dreams. Wow, I haven't had one of those in, well, > years and years, now. I used to have those rather often. Weirdly, I was > never completely naked; my version of that dream had me either in my > underwear in public, or topless. > > Yes, I can see how that that particular dream would be an expression of > feeling anxiety about being too vulnerable in general, or vulnerable to > being shamed: public shame. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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