BDP and Money.....

August 23, 2011

Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning, they

talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that went on

with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have attached

themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When their

relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money makes them

feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money day and nite

and in every discussion, relates everything back to money. Drives me and my

family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

Can anyone relate?

Chasi

August 23, 2011

The money=status/power/arrogance thing sounds like your bpd-mother might have

some narcissistic pd traits mixed in with her borderline pd. Its not uncommon

for someone with bpd to have other Cluster B pds at the same time, or other Axis

I disorders. The combo of borderline pd+narcissistic pd is referred to as a

" Queen " bpd in the book " Understanding the Borderline Mother " , and I think that

book is pretty on-target with its sub-categories of bpd.

I agree; anyone who constantly harps on one subject and who tends to monopolize

conversations with their one favorite subject can become very tiresome very

quickly.

Argh.

I feel for you.

As a weapon of last resort, after literally decades of my bpd/npd nada harping

on a subject I'd asked her (begged her) repeatedly to please drop (because it

was a passive-aggressive way to criticize and shame me) ...I finally used

sarcasm on my nada. She was so *shocked* that little old compliant me would use

sarcasm on her, that it finally made her stop mentioning that stupid topic. At

least for a few years.

So maybe if each time your nada starts talking about money-money-money, you

bring up how much MORE money so-and-so has than she does, and compared to

so-and-so your mother is as POOR as a church-mouse, can never hope to catch up

with so-and-so's treasure hoard of money, etc... it may register with your

mother that money-money-money is not a fun topic to keep bringing up.

Or, not. Just an idea, to take or leave. We each have to figure out what feels

workable and tolerable to us, individually.

-Annie

>

> Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning, they

talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that went on

with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have attached

themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When their

relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money makes them

feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money day and nite

and in every discussion, relates everything back to money. Drives me and my

family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

>

> Can anyone relate?

>

> Chasi

>

August 23, 2011

Yup. My nada is an accountant, grew up poor and then began making her millions

as an adult. Her identity is definitely tied to money. She also acts like no

one knows how to handle money but her and uses gifts of money to manipulate

others.

Annie

>

> Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning, they

talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that went on

with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have attached

themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When their

relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money makes them

feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money day and nite

and in every discussion, relates everything back to money. Drives me and my

family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

>

> Can anyone relate?

>

> Chasi

>

August 24, 2011

Ahem, my nada spent 20 years going to night school to get a degree in accounting

(and can't get a job doing it for the life of her). It was her dream to be an

accountant, and she recently switched jobs from being a sort of

executive/administrative assistant to a sort of glorified bookkeeper (and she's

very unhappy because it's very structured and she doesn't have to kill herself

as someone's assistant anymore and get recognition for working late, etc.). She

even teaches a course at her church on financial planning/principles according

to the bible.

I, personally, find her financial choices to have been very poor in the past,

but of course, she can fool anyone.

> >

> > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning, they

talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that went on

with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have attached

themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When their

relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money makes them

feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money day and nite

and in every discussion, relates everything back to money. Drives me and my

family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

> >

> > Can anyone relate?

> >

> > Chasi

> >

>

August 24, 2011

Annie,

You hit the nail on the head... she is also narcissistic which is something I

also recently come to understand about her.

Thanks for your idea to bring up about someone else having more money-that may

put her in her place. I just felt sorry for her as I know she is trying to have

something to talk about at the dinner table and doesnt know what else to talk

about. When I try to bring up other topics to get her away from the subject of

'money' -she either cant releate or tries to engage for a little bit but it

somehow leads back to money. Extremely frustrating. My husband is annoyed with

it but also understands whats going on as I have addressed her mental illness to

him. He's being as patient as any spouse can be. She wants to be close with my

son and doesnt know how so she gives him money all the time as her way of

connecting with him - sad If she only knew that her hugs/kisses and words

of encouragement alone would do wonders and not money but she just doesnt know

how.

Growing up, she would literally buy my brother and I a car and we didnt know any

better - as young teenagers, who wouldnt want a car bought for them. Only to

find out later that she would hold it over us when it was convenient. She's

already trying to do it with my son but I have put the brakes on it already

saying he does not deserve a car this young and he will need to earn it.

Funny thing is that she recently complained that my uncle just talks about

money, when she doesnt even realize how often she is doing it herself. Again,

very sad

Thanks for your tip, will let you know how it works.

Chasi

> >

> > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning, they

talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that went on

with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have attached

themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When their

relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money makes them

feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money day and nite

and in every discussion, relates everything back to money. Drives me and my

family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

> >

> > Can anyone relate?

> >

> > Chasi

> >

>

August 24, 2011

my nada was TERRIBLE with money.

My dad put her through her BS degree starting when I was in kindergarten.

she finished when I finished 8th grade. Yep, a model of human efficiency.

She was always in debt. Even after she got a job as a special ed teacher she

never ever evern contributed a single dollar toward groceries for the

family, the mortgage, light/gas or electricity. Her money was her money and

my dad's money was THEIR money.

My dad took to locking his checks in his gun cabinet. My brother and I knew

where they were but she didn't. Why he didn't open a personal instead of

joint account I will never know.

Every few years she would find one of his checks and over draft his bank

account to the hilt.

She was paid once a month. She went thrifting the next day every single

month and spent every dime. She also gave money to friends and relatives,

including me. I had a 100 a month allowance after about age 15. i never

spent it. I would sometimes use it to pay cover costs so my friends coudl

get into concerts. I had like a grand in my savings account when I left for

college just from saving my allowance (aka the pork chop she tied around her

neck so the dog would play with her).

She never once in the whole time I knew her had a full tank of gas. If I

needed a ride to music lessons, i would have to rummage for change so that

we could put enough gas in the car to get the 6 blocks to my teacher's house

and back. And nada always ran late, and then always had to stop to get 1.15

or whatever she had in change worth of gas. if you ever need someone to hit

a dollar amount to the penny on a gas pump, give me a ring, I had a good 8

or so years of practice (because princesses don't pump gas). I can get you

1.44 no sweat if you have 4 quarters, 8 nickels and 4 pennies, you can get

from the gas station to my guitar teacher's house and back, but you

will undoubtedly miss the majority of your lesson if you are running on

" nada time. "

When I was 15 I started playing guitar a lot. At 16 I opened my own checking

account specifically so I could write checks for my music lessons because

nada was SOOOO good at accounting. Imagine the look on my teacher's faces

when I have them a personal check at that age. they were kinda. . . baffled

by it. But who cared, I had a 100 allowance, and that added up to about 2

concerts for me and a friend a month and enough left over for music lessons

on 2 instruments, plus some to save. I was happy and nada was no longer in

charge of my schedule.

Ive never met a bpd who didn't either hoard money or waste it. Not one. I

like to think i'm somewhere in the middle.

> **

>

> Annie,

>

> You hit the nail on the head... she is also narcissistic which is something

> I also recently come to understand about her.

>

> Thanks for your idea to bring up about someone else having more money-that

> may put her in her place. I just felt sorry for her as I know she is trying

> to have something to talk about at the dinner table and doesnt know what

> else to talk about. When I try to bring up other topics to get her away from

> the subject of 'money' -she either cant releate or tries to engage for a

> little bit but it somehow leads back to money. Extremely frustrating. My

> husband is annoyed with it but also understands whats going on as I have

> addressed her mental illness to him. He's being as patient as any spouse can

> be. She wants to be close with my son and doesnt know how so she gives him

> money all the time as her way of connecting with him - sad If she only

> knew that her hugs/kisses and words of encouragement alone would do wonders

> and not money but she just doesnt know how.

>

> Growing up, she would literally buy my brother and I a car and we didnt

> know any better - as young teenagers, who wouldnt want a car bought for

> them. Only to find out later that she would hold it over us when it was

> convenient. She's already trying to do it with my son but I have put the

> brakes on it already saying he does not deserve a car this young and he will

> need to earn it.

>

> Funny thing is that she recently complained that my uncle just talks about

> money, when she doesnt even realize how often she is doing it herself.

> Again, very sad

>

> Thanks for your tip, will let you know how it works.

>

> Chasi

>

> > >

> > > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning,

> they talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that

> went on with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have

> attached themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When

> their relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money

> makes them feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money

> day and nite and in every discussion, relates everything back to money.

> Drives me and my family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

> > >

> > > Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > Chasi

> > >

> >

>

August 24, 2011

My fada was fixated on money, too. He always complained at how expensive I

was, or how expensive all us kids were. Get a ER bill because I was having

stress-related chest pains (at 15 or 16)? (guess why?) He would comment how

expensive i was. I was supposed to be eternally grateful that he worked to

earn money to take care of all of us six kids--wait, isn't that what parents

are supposed to do? Every time he raged at me, he always brought up money as

a guilt-trip.

Towards the end of HS and beginning of college, I had a phone paid for by

him, and a car that I was paying half of, and he was paying half of. So,

when he disowned me, he tried to act as if they were chains to get me to

come crawling back to him (I had moved out). He said I needed to give back

the car, the phone, and get my own health insurance bc he was kicking me

off.

What did I do instead? I disconnected the chain my dad had on me, and got my

own phone and car (with the help of then fiance now DH's family, who never

hold anything over anyone.) So when dad yanked the chain, it came flying

back with nobody on the end of it. I think that made him madder, LOL.

Also, money was used as a way to " forgive. " Sorta. Fada would put us all on

eggshells, he was tense for some reason we never really understood. Then the

eggshells cracked, he would rage and punish and ground whoever got the short

straw that time, and we'd really be on edge for a week or two. Then he'd

" forgive " the transgressor by allowing him or her to have their privileges

back part of the way through the long punishment period. Then we eased up

just a little bit. He would then go on a shopping spree at Target buying us

a bunch of crap we didn't need (and didn't he just complain about not having

money??) and we were supposed to " forgive " him and be eternally grateful

for crap. If you tried to turn it down, say, it's an fugly outfit or

something, he would act all hurt that I was snubbing his " generosity " and

sometimes give me the silent treatment for a while, or then he wouldn't buy

something I did need. If you did let him buy you crap, then fada would later

hold it over your head the next time he was angry. " I bought you nice

clothes! You have all sorts of good stuff! Why are you treating me so

horribly? "

Well, f*ck him.

I have all sorts of stories that I really need to write down and put into a

book.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> > Annie,

> >

> > You hit the nail on the head... she is also narcissistic which is

> something

> > I also recently come to understand about her.

> >

> > Thanks for your idea to bring up about someone else having more

> money-that

> > may put her in her place. I just felt sorry for her as I know she is

> trying

> > to have something to talk about at the dinner table and doesnt know what

> > else to talk about. When I try to bring up other topics to get her away

> from

> > the subject of 'money' -she either cant releate or tries to engage for a

> > little bit but it somehow leads back to money. Extremely frustrating. My

> > husband is annoyed with it but also understands whats going on as I have

> > addressed her mental illness to him. He's being as patient as any spouse

> can

> > be. She wants to be close with my son and doesnt know how so she gives

> him

> > money all the time as her way of connecting with him - sad If she only

> > knew that her hugs/kisses and words of encouragement alone would do

> wonders

> > and not money but she just doesnt know how.

> >

> > Growing up, she would literally buy my brother and I a car and we didnt

> > know any better - as young teenagers, who wouldnt want a car bought for

> > them. Only to find out later that she would hold it over us when it was

> > convenient. She's already trying to do it with my son but I have put the

> > brakes on it already saying he does not deserve a car this young and he

> will

> > need to earn it.

> >

> > Funny thing is that she recently complained that my uncle just talks

> about

> > money, when she doesnt even realize how often she is doing it herself.

> > Again, very sad

> >

> > Thanks for your tip, will let you know how it works.

> >

> > Chasi

> >

> > > >

> > > > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money

> meaning,

> > they talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues

> that

> > went on with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have

> > attached themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When

> > their relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having

> money

> > makes them feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about

> money

> > day and nite and in every discussion, relates everything back to money.

> > Drives me and my family crazy because she is living with us for the

> moment.

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone relate?

> > > >

> > > > Chasi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

August 24, 2011

You will like this. My BDP mother hoards it. When my father was ill for years,

I supplemented my parents to help with medicine as my father was ill and needed

alot of medication. Since I worked, I gladly helped. So my father passes away

this past December and not right away, but a few months after we all got over

the shock of my father's death, I assumed I didnt need to help anymore. She was

still very depressed so I didnt bring it up as it seemed inappropriate to bring

it up. I decided to stop the payments and cancelled the transfer and low and

behold, she freaked out asking where the money was. It appears she still relied

on it even though my dad is gone and although its not alot of money and will not

break her either way, I was quite dismayed over her reaction. It just

reaffirmed her thinking of money and how she needs every penny of it to keep her

safe.

Chasi

> > > >

> > > > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money meaning,

> > they talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues that

> > went on with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have

> > attached themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When

> > their relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having money

> > makes them feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about money

> > day and nite and in every discussion, relates everything back to money.

> > Drives me and my family crazy because she is living with us for the moment.

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone relate?

> > > >

> > > > Chasi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

August 24, 2011

Holly, my BP mother wasn't like that, but my exBPw was. She will do something

good and then feel entitled to a clean slate of all the horrible things that she

did prior. They live so " in the now " that they are oblivious to the past. They

consider their offering as an all encompassing atonement. My exBPw thinks that

because she completes an in-patient drug treatment program (for the 4th time),

that she is now entitled to all the social privileges (trust, access,

opportunity) that we all have worked our whole lives to achieve. Their

mentality is, " I am ready to be responsible now, so give me what I want right

now. "

Low functioning BPs in particular, like my exBPw, can't see that the rest of us

have been making good choices for a very long time in order to have what we have

and continue to make good choices to keep what we have. We all have a track

record that greatly influences our quality of life. The low functioning BP

doesn't get this. All they can see is that they now want to be good and have

made resent efforts to be good. However, their track record, which is invisible

to them, limits their quality of life. Trying to help them understand this

reality is futile. It is like trying to teach a two year old how to drive a

car.

Holly, it looks like you where raised by a child trapped in an adult body.

Everything that you explain below about your Fada describes a low functioning

person whose emotional development got stuck very early in childhood. It helps

me to think of my exBPw as a child; I can be more patient with her that way when

she is acting like a child. How else is a child suppose to act; it makes

perfect sense that way.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money

> > meaning,

> > > they talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever issues

> > that

> > > went on with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have

> > > attached themselves to money as form of the only security they know. When

> > > their relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having

> > money

> > > makes them feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks about

> > money

> > > day and nite and in every discussion, relates everything back to money.

> > > Drives me and my family crazy because she is living with us for the

> > moment.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can anyone relate?

> > > > >

> > > > > Chasi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

August 24, 2011

It does help to see my fada as a toddler. Unfortunately, he's pretty high

functioning and for all the world he's the perfect father with a perfect

family, and I highly suspect he has some NPD thrown in the mix. Everything

has to be about him, and if we ever try to point out what *we* might like

for a change, he gets upset--like a toddler. I think his disowning of me was

exactly like a toddler throwing a fit...except I didn't give him what he

wanted, which was me coming back asking for forgiveness for whatever he

thought I did wrong (He never was clear about what exactly I did

wrong...I think I was just starting to live my own life.)

> **

>

> Holly, my BP mother wasn't like that, but my exBPw was. She will do

> something good and then feel entitled to a clean slate of all the horrible

> things that she did prior. They live so " in the now " that they are oblivious

> to the past. They consider their offering as an all encompassing atonement.

> My exBPw thinks that because she completes an in-patient drug treatment

> program (for the 4th time), that she is now entitled to all the social

> privileges (trust, access, opportunity) that we all have worked our whole

> lives to achieve. Their mentality is, " I am ready to be responsible now, so

> give me what I want right now. "

>

> Low functioning BPs in particular, like my exBPw, can't see that the rest

> of us have been making good choices for a very long time in order to have

> what we have and continue to make good choices to keep what we have. We all

> have a track record that greatly influences our quality of life. The low

> functioning BP doesn't get this. All they can see is that they now want to

> be good and have made resent efforts to be good. However, their track

> record, which is invisible to them, limits their quality of life. Trying to

> help them understand this reality is futile. It is like trying to teach a

> two year old how to drive a car.

>

> Holly, it looks like you where raised by a child trapped in an adult body.

> Everything that you explain below about your Fada describes a low

> functioning person whose emotional development got stuck very early in

> childhood. It helps me to think of my exBPw as a child; I can be more

> patient with her that way when she is acting like a child. How else is a

> child suppose to act; it makes perfect sense that way.

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you have a parent with BDP and is also obsessed with money

> > > meaning,

> > > > they talk, eat, sleep, breath money. I have heard that whatever

> issues

> > > that

> > > > went on with a person that has BDP in their lives early on, they have

> > > > attached themselves to money as form of the only security they know.

> When

> > > > their relationships are in turmoil with people, the comfort of having

> > > money

> > > > makes them feel powerful and a bit arrogant. My BDP mother talks

> about

> > > money

> > > > day and nite and in every discussion, relates everything back to

> money.

> > > > Drives me and my family crazy because she is living with us for the

> > > moment.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Can anyone relate?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chasi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

August 24, 2011

Seems out Nada's are pretty similar in this respect. My Nada has tried to go

back to school (community college) for documentary filming, art, psychology

(nada as a psychologist - can you imagine?!), and computer skills. She didn't

finish ANY of these degrees, though she did manage to get through at least one

class in each. I have no idea how her grades were, though.

I think I had about $900 saved up when I first opened a savings account at 13,

but my allowance was only $20 or so/month (five kids). I'd been saving for a

while.

Our family is in a pretty bad financial state right now even though my dad makes

over over 100K/year. I think most of this is due to an incessant barrage of

medical bills (you know nada luuuvs the ED) and car problems. The rest of the

trouble is just buying stuff. Nada is a compulsive shopper, though she generally

keeps it around $100-200/day, which unfortunately is better than some other

nadas I've heard about.

It makes the home environment SUPER stressful. I really can't understand why dad

hasn't just cut her off already. Get a personal account and put her " allowance "

into the joint account so she can't spend like that anymore. Now if the economy

goes even further south we have no cushion. And nada's attitude is all, 'well i

guess we'll all just have to tighten our belts.' Dad's enraged over all of it

though, we were in a really bad state, horrible debt, when he got laid off years

ago and I think if it happens again he'll just cut her off completely.

I just don't get why he hasn't done it by now.

The worst thing is when she goes " Don't worry honey, it'll be okay. " And I just

know my dad's thinking, " yeah it'll be okay because *I* will make it okay. you

will just keep spending, oblivious to what's happening. "

Subject: Re: Re: BDP and Money.....

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 8:16 AM