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This one is long.

So I've started to fixing myself instead of nada. I`ve set firm boundaries and

after some extortion from nada things calm down. We even have some kind of

" relationship " ( the one you can have with BPD) I thought the big work is done i

can relax a bit. I felt so good. But few days ago a new " aha " moment hit me.

You probably experience a moment when some thought, memory, event......

trigger something in you and you suddenly see the hole picture - all the little

pieces come together and you are shocked how you didn't see the obvious truth

before.

I realized that my biggest problem is not nada ( she is BPD by book) the most

dark things and traumas are connected with my fada. He died 16 years ago. At

that time I didn't know nothing about BPD; NPD or any other personal disorders.

( Nada was diagnosed few years ago) I just thought that my family is a bit

crazy. I was at his death bed and at the moment he died I suddenly felt such a

deep hatred it shocked me. At that time I didn't realize why I hate him so much

and after that I forgot about that and i have so much work with my nada (

clinging on me and and my sister demanding to be fada surrogates ) I didn't

thought a lot about him.

I have little memories from my childhood ( the one I have are horrible) so it

was and it still is hard for me to get all the picture. But few days ago I

realized - he was even worst than nada and he probably was psychopath and sadist

( ar at least NPD or BPD).

He was well respect in our community ( he still is after 16 years of his

death..) but at home he was cold, cruel and totally distant. For him our home

was some kind of hotel. He was living his own life and he came and went

whenever he wanted. Nobody was asking him any questions. It was unimaginable. He

requested 5 stars services - or he would rage, throw things at wall, scream at

my nada, beat me....He didn't care about children. He wanted to have boys but

ended up with too girls. He definitely didn't care for me ( he has some

connection with my sister - the golden child).. Not just because I'm a girl but

because even as a girl I didn't meet his perception of woman. I was an object,

mistake, something weird to him.

He was patrhiarh , dictator and my nada and sister totally obeyed him. I was the

only one who fought battles with him . Mostly for nada because he treated her

very very badly. He screamed at her a lot or he didn't talk to her at all ( one

time for 2 years( and they where using me and my sister to pass the unavoidably

messages. He didn't beat her but he always insulted her badly even in front of

other people. His way of showing " affection " was to kick you in the ass and make

cruel jokes of you. Everybody believed ( including me) that that was the way he

was that he didn't know better that he loved us.It was kind of normal for us.

I've realized now he was a sadist who was even proud of his actions. They amused

him.

My nada was always crying to me how badly he treated her I fought for her with

him and risk heavy rages or beating although I thought she is so impossible and

incapable that I can even understand him a bit. But it was just too much. LIke

a lot of BPD's she then turned against me and use use his raging at me to

" connect " with him. That was sometimes the only way she can get his attention

and approval. She agreed with him that I'm a bad daughter who has a big mouth

and at least for a moment they share something.. At one point I had had enough,

I stopped protecting nada and I somehow managed he stopped beating me or ranging

at me. ( long story)

Part of it was because few years before his death he changed completely.She had

discovered that he was afraid of her " craziness " I can not remember what

exactly had happened but I recall some memories of her screaming hysterically

lying on the steps. She than discovered she could manipulate with that very

easily and she use that a lot. She became the dictator and he became a

submissive one. They strangely changed roles completely. At that time I was not

living at home anymore, he lost his interest in me completely and he left me

alone, That is probably why I somehow forgot what a huge bastard he was.

It takes me years after his death to realize that he was alcoholic too. I

couldn' believed how I could not put one and one together. It was so obvious. I

also found out that some of his stories was complete lies. He for instance told

me that between 2 world war he was sent in child working nazi)camp in Germany

and he had managed to escape by himself crossing all the Europe. Complete lie.

and there is a lot of stories like that. I too found out he put me or my sister

in very dangerous situation and that we could easily die. I remember some of the

events but at that time I didn't realize that even it was obvious.... It is

strange how you can (as a child) pick veird perception of the world around you

as normal and how much time you need to decode and change that. And now I

understand from where my hatred came when he died. Somehow deep down I knew the

truth but I couldn' see it at that time. And even than I didn`t realize that he

is psychopath.

It takes me another few years to realize that he is not an odd man who didn't

know how to show emotions. To see the trhuth,

So I was raised with BPD and psychopath ( not to mention crazy grandfada and

grandnada who are death too...) After I had resolved my problems with nada and I

was thinking I'm done with that I'm at the beginning again. It will even be

harder to resolve that because he is death and I had such a big holes in my

memories and nobody to ask what really was happening at that time. And if I ask

nada there will be just more lies and distortions.

If I look at how much my life and me changed after I dig in my past with nada

and healed myself I know it is worth. But it still sucks.

yenaine

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(((((yenaine)))))

I'm so sorry that you and your sister had to endure such a horrific childhood.

A parent who deliberately endangers his own children's lives and thinks its

funny, who starves his children for attention and affection and instead kicks

them and humiliates them, and thinks that is amusing, well, I would agree with

you that such a person probably is a psychopath.

Its criminal behavior, as far as I'm concerned.

One of the survival mechanisms of children who are trapped with no escape from

an extremely abusive and controlling or negligent family of origin, is to go

into denial. Denial creates a false but safe-feeling cocoon in which the child

can make herself believe that her parents actually love her and the things they

do to her are done out of love. So the child easily forgets the last round of

abuse. Denial, dissociation, innocence, inexperience and trust protect the

small child from reality: that her true position is rather precarious and

probably hopeless; denial shields the child from suicidal despair.

The bond a child has with her primary caregivers is so strong and so hard-wired

at an instinct level that it bypasses rational thought.

A very small battered child will cling screaming in fear to her battering

mother, the person who just broke the child's leg, instead of rushing into the

arms of a caring nurse or doctor who is there only to help the child because

those people are strangers. Irrationally, the familiar but abusive mother feels

safer to the child than the strangers do.

I think there must be some extra spark of survival instinct in you, some

unquenchable inner strength and resiliency, some humanitarian core in you that

made you try to defend your mother and yourself from his abuse, when you were

just a child and young person, even if that meant bringing his rage down on

yourself.

However, as you have mentioned, the fact that your mother was also abusive

toward you, that she actually used you to deflect your father's wrath from

herself, indicates that she also had a severe personality disorder. Throwing

your child " under the bus " to save yourself is not the hallmark of a good

mother, in my opinion.

Some people just simply have all the parenting instincts of monitor lizards,

which will sometimes just casually devour their own eggs and hatchlings if they

get hungry enough and the eggs are handy.

And how absolutely fascinating that your parents switched roles with each other,

from dominant to submissive, later in life. I have never heard of that

particular thing happening, before. The more I read, the more I learn about

personality disorders.

I agree with you, that as we dig down and uncover first one layer, then another

layer, then another layer of family history and our own hidden, repressed

memories, it can be overwhelming. Give yourself plenty of time to process or

digest and incorporate each piece of new knowledge, and time to fit it in to the

big picture.

You are a survivor, and I think you'll survive each new layer you uncover.

-Annie

>

> This one is long.

>

> So I've started to fixing myself instead of nada. I`ve set firm boundaries and

after some extortion from nada things calm down. We even have some kind of

" relationship " ( the one you can have with BPD) I thought the big work is done i

can relax a bit. I felt so good. But few days ago a new " aha " moment hit me.

>

> You probably experience a moment when some thought, memory, event......

trigger something in you and you suddenly see the hole picture - all the little

pieces come together and you are shocked how you didn't see the obvious truth

before.

>

> I realized that my biggest problem is not nada ( she is BPD by book) the most

dark things and traumas are connected with my fada. He died 16 years ago. At

that time I didn't know nothing about BPD; NPD or any other personal disorders.

( Nada was diagnosed few years ago) I just thought that my family is a bit

crazy. I was at his death bed and at the moment he died I suddenly felt such a

deep hatred it shocked me. At that time I didn't realize why I hate him so much

and after that I forgot about that and i have so much work with my nada (

clinging on me and and my sister demanding to be fada surrogates ) I didn't

thought a lot about him.

>

> I have little memories from my childhood ( the one I have are horrible) so it

was and it still is hard for me to get all the picture. But few days ago I

realized - he was even worst than nada and he probably was psychopath and sadist

( ar at least NPD or BPD).

>

> He was well respect in our community ( he still is after 16 years of his

death..) but at home he was cold, cruel and totally distant. For him our home

was some kind of hotel. He was living his own life and he came and went

whenever he wanted. Nobody was asking him any questions. It was unimaginable. He

requested 5 stars services - or he would rage, throw things at wall, scream at

my nada, beat me....He didn't care about children. He wanted to have boys but

ended up with too girls. He definitely didn't care for me ( he has some

connection with my sister - the golden child).. Not just because I'm a girl but

because even as a girl I didn't meet his perception of woman. I was an object,

mistake, something weird to him.

>

> He was patrhiarh , dictator and my nada and sister totally obeyed him. I was

the only one who fought battles with him . Mostly for nada because he treated

her very very badly. He screamed at her a lot or he didn't talk to her at all (

one time for 2 years( and they where using me and my sister to pass the

unavoidably messages. He didn't beat her but he always insulted her badly even

in front of other people. His way of showing " affection " was to kick you in the

ass and make cruel jokes of you. Everybody believed ( including me) that that

was the way he was that he didn't know better that he loved us.It was kind of

normal for us. I've realized now he was a sadist who was even proud of his

actions. They amused him.

>

> My nada was always crying to me how badly he treated her I fought for her

with him and risk heavy rages or beating although I thought she is so impossible

and incapable that I can even understand him a bit. But it was just too much.

LIke a lot of BPD's she then turned against me and use use his raging at me to

" connect " with him. That was sometimes the only way she can get his attention

and approval. She agreed with him that I'm a bad daughter who has a big mouth

and at least for a moment they share something.. At one point I had had enough,

I stopped protecting nada and I somehow managed he stopped beating me or ranging

at me. ( long story)

>

> Part of it was because few years before his death he changed completely.She

had discovered that he was afraid of her " craziness " I can not remember what

exactly had happened but I recall some memories of her screaming hysterically

lying on the steps. She than discovered she could manipulate with that very

easily and she use that a lot. She became the dictator and he became a

submissive one. They strangely changed roles completely. At that time I was not

living at home anymore, he lost his interest in me completely and he left me

alone, That is probably why I somehow forgot what a huge bastard he was.

>

> It takes me years after his death to realize that he was alcoholic too. I

couldn' believed how I could not put one and one together. It was so obvious. I

also found out that some of his stories was complete lies. He for instance told

me that between 2 world war he was sent in child working nazi)camp in Germany

and he had managed to escape by himself crossing all the Europe. Complete lie.

and there is a lot of stories like that. I too found out he put me or my sister

in very dangerous situation and that we could easily die. I remember some of the

events but at that time I didn't realize that even it was obvious.... It is

strange how you can (as a child) pick veird perception of the world around you

as normal and how much time you need to decode and change that. And now I

understand from where my hatred came when he died. Somehow deep down I knew the

truth but I couldn' see it at that time. And even than I didn`t realize that he

is psychopath.

>

> It takes me another few years to realize that he is not an odd man who didn't

know how to show emotions. To see the trhuth,

>

> So I was raised with BPD and psychopath ( not to mention crazy grandfada and

grandnada who are death too...) After I had resolved my problems with nada and I

was thinking I'm done with that I'm at the beginning again. It will even be

harder to resolve that because he is death and I had such a big holes in my

memories and nobody to ask what really was happening at that time. And if I ask

nada there will be just more lies and distortions.

>

> If I look at how much my life and me changed after I dig in my past with nada

and healed myself I know it is worth. But it still sucks.

>

>

>

> yenaine

>

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One persons normal is another person's hell. It can be so strange to dig into

your family's past and find out how bazaar it really is.

Everyone thought my family was normal and happy. However, rumors about my BP

mother ran ramped. It wasn't until she divorced my dad that all the rumors

surfaced and people started comparing notes. She was considered a leader of our

very large church and was in charge of one of the largest church youth groups in

the area. She was highly respected, so rumors never got very far before being

dismissed. However, after the divorce, to everyone's shock, it became apparent

that many of rumors were true. It was confirmed that she had affairs with many

of the married men in the church, while married to my dad. After divorcing my

dad, she eventually married one of these men. HE WAS A PASTOR OF ONE OF THE

CHURCHES IN THAT AREA! He is a nice guy; I like him, but still...that is just

wrong. It was never confirmed, but there was a lot of evidence that she was

sexually active with several boys in her church youth group.

So, the churches (of that denomination) in that area all shunned her. So she

decided to relocate to another state. She joined a church (of the same

denomination) and requested that her membership be transferred. The church

holding her membership did not want to honor the transfer; basically wanted to

have her blacklisted from the entire denomination and they had enough evidence

to do it, but my dad pleaded for them to let her keep her membership. She still

does not know it was my dad that saved her membership. She has no idea how

close she came to being exiled from the denomination.

So a few years later, she marries a pastor, which turns out being one of her

many affairs from times past, and was promoted to being " the pastor's wife. "

She loved this role and several years passed. After many years, her husband

grows in stature within the denomination, but in a different state. He becomes

a director of the denomination for that state. Then my mom decides to pop in on

an old friend that is still a member of the church that wanted to exile her from

the denomination. She told this old friend (who used to be her best friend)

that she was now married to this pastor (who everyone knew she had an affair

with) and was now living in this other state with this pastor.

Wow, news spread like wild fire and that state conference office was bombarded

with letters of outrage about what happened when she was at their church. The

church covered it all up and made the problem go away somehow. After all, my BP

mother is now a director's wife.

It is simply amazing how this stuff just gets swept under the rug. When I asked

my dad about these things, he just cried like I had never seen him cry before.

He had been harboring these secrets for so long; he let go of them in tears. I

sat the in shock; I didn't want to believe what was now so clearly the truth.

Not only was she a terrible mother, but an immoral person to the extreme.

Life goes on...

> >

> > This one is long.

> >

> > So I've started to fixing myself instead of nada. I`ve set firm boundaries

and after some extortion from nada things calm down. We even have some kind of

" relationship " ( the one you can have with BPD) I thought the big work is done i

can relax a bit. I felt so good. But few days ago a new " aha " moment hit me.

> >

> > You probably experience a moment when some thought, memory, event......

trigger something in you and you suddenly see the hole picture - all the little

pieces come together and you are shocked how you didn't see the obvious truth

before.

> >

> > I realized that my biggest problem is not nada ( she is BPD by book) the

most dark things and traumas are connected with my fada. He died 16 years ago.

At that time I didn't know nothing about BPD; NPD or any other personal

disorders. ( Nada was diagnosed few years ago) I just thought that my family is

a bit crazy. I was at his death bed and at the moment he died I suddenly felt

such a deep hatred it shocked me. At that time I didn't realize why I hate him

so much and after that I forgot about that and i have so much work with my nada

( clinging on me and and my sister demanding to be fada surrogates ) I didn't

thought a lot about him.

> >

> > I have little memories from my childhood ( the one I have are horrible) so

it was and it still is hard for me to get all the picture. But few days ago I

realized - he was even worst than nada and he probably was psychopath and sadist

( ar at least NPD or BPD).

> >

> > He was well respect in our community ( he still is after 16 years of his

death..) but at home he was cold, cruel and totally distant. For him our home

was some kind of hotel. He was living his own life and he came and went

whenever he wanted. Nobody was asking him any questions. It was unimaginable. He

requested 5 stars services - or he would rage, throw things at wall, scream at

my nada, beat me....He didn't care about children. He wanted to have boys but

ended up with too girls. He definitely didn't care for me ( he has some

connection with my sister - the golden child).. Not just because I'm a girl but

because even as a girl I didn't meet his perception of woman. I was an object,

mistake, something weird to him.

> >

> > He was patrhiarh , dictator and my nada and sister totally obeyed him. I was

the only one who fought battles with him . Mostly for nada because he treated

her very very badly. He screamed at her a lot or he didn't talk to her at all (

one time for 2 years( and they where using me and my sister to pass the

unavoidably messages. He didn't beat her but he always insulted her badly even

in front of other people. His way of showing " affection " was to kick you in the

ass and make cruel jokes of you. Everybody believed ( including me) that that

was the way he was that he didn't know better that he loved us.It was kind of

normal for us. I've realized now he was a sadist who was even proud of his

actions. They amused him.

> >

> > My nada was always crying to me how badly he treated her I fought for her

with him and risk heavy rages or beating although I thought she is so impossible

and incapable that I can even understand him a bit. But it was just too much.

LIke a lot of BPD's she then turned against me and use use his raging at me to

" connect " with him. That was sometimes the only way she can get his attention

and approval. She agreed with him that I'm a bad daughter who has a big mouth

and at least for a moment they share something.. At one point I had had enough,

I stopped protecting nada and I somehow managed he stopped beating me or ranging

at me. ( long story)

> >

> > Part of it was because few years before his death he changed completely.She

had discovered that he was afraid of her " craziness " I can not remember what

exactly had happened but I recall some memories of her screaming hysterically

lying on the steps. She than discovered she could manipulate with that very

easily and she use that a lot. She became the dictator and he became a

submissive one. They strangely changed roles completely. At that time I was not

living at home anymore, he lost his interest in me completely and he left me

alone, That is probably why I somehow forgot what a huge bastard he was.

> >

> > It takes me years after his death to realize that he was alcoholic too. I

couldn' believed how I could not put one and one together. It was so obvious. I

also found out that some of his stories was complete lies. He for instance told

me that between 2 world war he was sent in child working nazi)camp in Germany

and he had managed to escape by himself crossing all the Europe. Complete lie.

and there is a lot of stories like that. I too found out he put me or my sister

in very dangerous situation and that we could easily die. I remember some of the

events but at that time I didn't realize that even it was obvious.... It is

strange how you can (as a child) pick veird perception of the world around you

as normal and how much time you need to decode and change that. And now I

understand from where my hatred came when he died. Somehow deep down I knew the

truth but I couldn' see it at that time. And even than I didn`t realize that he

is psychopath.

> >

> > It takes me another few years to realize that he is not an odd man who

didn't know how to show emotions. To see the trhuth,

> >

> > So I was raised with BPD and psychopath ( not to mention crazy grandfada and

grandnada who are death too...) After I had resolved my problems with nada and I

was thinking I'm done with that I'm at the beginning again. It will even be

harder to resolve that because he is death and I had such a big holes in my

memories and nobody to ask what really was happening at that time. And if I ask

nada there will be just more lies and distortions.

> >

> > If I look at how much my life and me changed after I dig in my past with

nada and healed myself I know it is worth. But it still sucks.

> >

> >

> >

> > yenaine

> >

>

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I'm not understanding your reference; in what universe are your mother's sexual

acting-out behaviors (including serial adultery and child molestation) or

yenaine's father's sadistic, negligent, dangerously physically abusive behaviors

" normal " !?

Certainly, in the mind of the individual with personality disorder, the way they

think, feel, and behave seems perfectly " normal " and justified. That's why

personality disorder is considered an " ego syntonic " condition; the person with

pd thinks they're just fine (perfect, even) and its everyone else who is either

wrong, or insane, or hateful, or stupid, or just a non-entity, like an appliance

that exists only for their use, and deserves to be treated badly.

-Annie

> > >

> > > This one is long.

> > >

> > > So I've started to fixing myself instead of nada. I`ve set firm boundaries

and after some extortion from nada things calm down. We even have some kind of

" relationship " ( the one you can have with BPD) I thought the big work is done i

can relax a bit. I felt so good. But few days ago a new " aha " moment hit me.

> > >

> > > You probably experience a moment when some thought, memory, event......

trigger something in you and you suddenly see the hole picture - all the little

pieces come together and you are shocked how you didn't see the obvious truth

before.

> > >

> > > I realized that my biggest problem is not nada ( she is BPD by book) the

most dark things and traumas are connected with my fada. He died 16 years ago.

At that time I didn't know nothing about BPD; NPD or any other personal

disorders. ( Nada was diagnosed few years ago) I just thought that my family is

a bit crazy. I was at his death bed and at the moment he died I suddenly felt

such a deep hatred it shocked me. At that time I didn't realize why I hate him

so much and after that I forgot about that and i have so much work with my nada

( clinging on me and and my sister demanding to be fada surrogates ) I didn't

thought a lot about him.

> > >

> > > I have little memories from my childhood ( the one I have are horrible)

so it was and it still is hard for me to get all the picture. But few days ago

I realized - he was even worst than nada and he probably was psychopath and

sadist ( ar at least NPD or BPD).

> > >

> > > He was well respect in our community ( he still is after 16 years of his

death..) but at home he was cold, cruel and totally distant. For him our home

was some kind of hotel. He was living his own life and he came and went

whenever he wanted. Nobody was asking him any questions. It was unimaginable. He

requested 5 stars services - or he would rage, throw things at wall, scream at

my nada, beat me....He didn't care about children. He wanted to have boys but

ended up with too girls. He definitely didn't care for me ( he has some

connection with my sister - the golden child).. Not just because I'm a girl but

because even as a girl I didn't meet his perception of woman. I was an object,

mistake, something weird to him.

> > >

> > > He was patrhiarh , dictator and my nada and sister totally obeyed him. I

was the only one who fought battles with him . Mostly for nada because he

treated her very very badly. He screamed at her a lot or he didn't talk to her

at all ( one time for 2 years( and they where using me and my sister to pass

the unavoidably messages. He didn't beat her but he always insulted her badly

even in front of other people. His way of showing " affection " was to kick you in

the ass and make cruel jokes of you. Everybody believed ( including me) that

that was the way he was that he didn't know better that he loved us.It was kind

of normal for us. I've realized now he was a sadist who was even proud of his

actions. They amused him.

> > >

> > > My nada was always crying to me how badly he treated her I fought for her

with him and risk heavy rages or beating although I thought she is so impossible

and incapable that I can even understand him a bit. But it was just too much.

LIke a lot of BPD's she then turned against me and use use his raging at me to

" connect " with him. That was sometimes the only way she can get his attention

and approval. She agreed with him that I'm a bad daughter who has a big mouth

and at least for a moment they share something.. At one point I had had enough,

I stopped protecting nada and I somehow managed he stopped beating me or ranging

at me. ( long story)

> > >

> > > Part of it was because few years before his death he changed

completely.She had discovered that he was afraid of her " craziness " I can not

remember what exactly had happened but I recall some memories of her screaming

hysterically lying on the steps. She than discovered she could manipulate with

that very easily and she use that a lot. She became the dictator and he became

a submissive one. They strangely changed roles completely. At that time I was

not living at home anymore, he lost his interest in me completely and he left me

alone, That is probably why I somehow forgot what a huge bastard he was.

> > >

> > > It takes me years after his death to realize that he was alcoholic too. I

couldn' believed how I could not put one and one together. It was so obvious. I

also found out that some of his stories was complete lies. He for instance told

me that between 2 world war he was sent in child working nazi)camp in Germany

and he had managed to escape by himself crossing all the Europe. Complete lie.

and there is a lot of stories like that. I too found out he put me or my sister

in very dangerous situation and that we could easily die. I remember some of the

events but at that time I didn't realize that even it was obvious.... It is

strange how you can (as a child) pick veird perception of the world around you

as normal and how much time you need to decode and change that. And now I

understand from where my hatred came when he died. Somehow deep down I knew the

truth but I couldn' see it at that time. And even than I didn`t realize that he

is psychopath.

> > >

> > > It takes me another few years to realize that he is not an odd man who

didn't know how to show emotions. To see the trhuth,

> > >

> > > So I was raised with BPD and psychopath ( not to mention crazy grandfada

and grandnada who are death too...) After I had resolved my problems with nada

and I was thinking I'm done with that I'm at the beginning again. It will even

be harder to resolve that because he is death and I had such a big holes in my

memories and nobody to ask what really was happening at that time. And if I ask

nada there will be just more lies and distortions.

> > >

> > > If I look at how much my life and me changed after I dig in my past with

nada and healed myself I know it is worth. But it still sucks.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > yenaine

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites

You have done so much work and are dealing with such a heavy load. Know you are

not alone in seeing things for what they are after the fact. I think we all have

had that to some degree. Know you have done an incredible job. Be good to

yourself in your journey of recovery. I recommend a book for you - by Dr.

Black " Changing Course - Recovery from Abandonment and Loss " . Very

reader friendly and hands on and helpful. Gives you an opportunity to mother

yourself.

>

> This one is long.

>

> So I've started to fixing myself instead of nada. I`ve set firm boundaries and

after some extortion from nada things calm down. We even have some kind of

" relationship " ( the one you can have with BPD) I thought the big work is done i

can relax a bit. I felt so good. But few days ago a new " aha " moment hit me.

>

> You probably experience a moment when some thought, memory, event......

trigger something in you and you suddenly see the hole picture - all the little

pieces come together and you are shocked how you didn't see the obvious truth

before.

>

> I realized that my biggest problem is not nada ( she is BPD by book) the most

dark things and traumas are connected with my fada. He died 16 years ago. At

that time I didn't know nothing about BPD; NPD or any other personal disorders.

( Nada was diagnosed few years ago) I just thought that my family is a bit

crazy. I was at his death bed and at the moment he died I suddenly felt such a

deep hatred it shocked me. At that time I didn't realize why I hate him so much

and after that I forgot about that and i have so much work with my nada (

clinging on me and and my sister demanding to be fada surrogates ) I didn't

thought a lot about him.

>

> I have little memories from my childhood ( the one I have are horrible) so it

was and it still is hard for me to get all the picture. But few days ago I

realized - he was even worst than nada and he probably was psychopath and sadist

( ar at least NPD or BPD).

>

> He was well respect in our community ( he still is after 16 years of his

death..) but at home he was cold, cruel and totally distant. For him our home

was some kind of hotel. He was living his own life and he came and went

whenever he wanted. Nobody was asking him any questions. It was unimaginable. He

requested 5 stars services - or he would rage, throw things at wall, scream at

my nada, beat me....He didn't care about children. He wanted to have boys but

ended up with too girls. He definitely didn't care for me ( he has some

connection with my sister - the golden child).. Not just because I'm a girl but

because even as a girl I didn't meet his perception of woman. I was an object,

mistake, something weird to him.

>

> He was patrhiarh , dictator and my nada and sister totally obeyed him. I was

the only one who fought battles with him . Mostly for nada because he treated

her very very badly. He screamed at her a lot or he didn't talk to her at all (

one time for 2 years( and they where using me and my sister to pass the

unavoidably messages. He didn't beat her but he always insulted her badly even

in front of other people. His way of showing " affection " was to kick you in the

ass and make cruel jokes of you. Everybody believed ( including me) that that

was the way he was that he didn't know better that he loved us.It was kind of

normal for us. I've realized now he was a sadist who was even proud of his

actions. They amused him.

>

> My nada was always crying to me how badly he treated her I fought for her

with him and risk heavy rages or beating although I thought she is so impossible

and incapable that I can even understand him a bit. But it was just too much.

LIke a lot of BPD's she then turned against me and use use his raging at me to

" connect " with him. That was sometimes the only way she can get his attention

and approval. She agreed with him that I'm a bad daughter who has a big mouth

and at least for a moment they share something.. At one point I had had enough,

I stopped protecting nada and I somehow managed he stopped beating me or ranging

at me. ( long story)

>

> Part of it was because few years before his death he changed completely.She

had discovered that he was afraid of her " craziness " I can not remember what

exactly had happened but I recall some memories of her screaming hysterically

lying on the steps. She than discovered she could manipulate with that very

easily and she use that a lot. She became the dictator and he became a

submissive one. They strangely changed roles completely. At that time I was not

living at home anymore, he lost his interest in me completely and he left me

alone, That is probably why I somehow forgot what a huge bastard he was.

>

> It takes me years after his death to realize that he was alcoholic too. I

couldn' believed how I could not put one and one together. It was so obvious. I

also found out that some of his stories was complete lies. He for instance told

me that between 2 world war he was sent in child working nazi)camp in Germany

and he had managed to escape by himself crossing all the Europe. Complete lie.

and there is a lot of stories like that. I too found out he put me or my sister

in very dangerous situation and that we could easily die. I remember some of the

events but at that time I didn't realize that even it was obvious.... It is

strange how you can (as a child) pick veird perception of the world around you

as normal and how much time you need to decode and change that. And now I

understand from where my hatred came when he died. Somehow deep down I knew the

truth but I couldn' see it at that time. And even than I didn`t realize that he

is psychopath.

>

> It takes me another few years to realize that he is not an odd man who didn't

know how to show emotions. To see the trhuth,

>

> So I was raised with BPD and psychopath ( not to mention crazy grandfada and

grandnada who are death too...) After I had resolved my problems with nada and I

was thinking I'm done with that I'm at the beginning again. It will even be

harder to resolve that because he is death and I had such a big holes in my

memories and nobody to ask what really was happening at that time. And if I ask

nada there will be just more lies and distortions.

>

> If I look at how much my life and me changed after I dig in my past with nada

and healed myself I know it is worth. But it still sucks.

>

>

>

> yenaine

>

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Thank you all for your response. Without this group I couldn't do all the work

(I'm reading posts daily but most of the time I have not time to respond) So you

get a credit for my healing too :-))

Annie you are an angel. You always know what to say and how to put works. I

admire your wisdom!

I know I've already done a lot. I could be totally messed up with all my past.

It was just that I thought that the big work is over, that I'll just have to

deal with small things from now on.....utopia I know :-)

Basically I'm not interesting about my past any more. It was a long journey full

of denial, anger, grief...but now I'm more interested about the present not

about th past and I focus myself not on other people ( nada) anymore. I just

want to get rid all the weird mind patterns , fears, misconceptions.....all the

sick heritage I get from my childhood.

I found out that a lot of my perception of the world and my reaction are still

influenced from my childhood ( even that I've dealt with that for years now) For

example many years before I thought that woman are stupid, undependable, clingy,

manipulative....I've had just man friends and I didn't want to look or behave

like " stereotipe " woman..After dealing with my nada I found my feminine side too

and I enjoy it. Basically almost all my friends now are woman :-)

The reason I remembered my fada psychopaty was because I was thinking about my

relationship with man. I played a little association game with myself- what

would be the first world crossing my mind if I think about a man. It was anger,

violence, rage, distance, coldness and I thought what!!! where this is coming

from? And than I did remember it. It was total flash.

I know that if you were raised in dysfunctional family you will probably choose

dysfunctional partner. And of course I did. But I couldn' find the basic

patterns. I'm not attracted to partners who " remind " me on my BPD mother anymore

( thanks god!) Now I have to find patterns on my father side.

I found out that I'm basically so afraid of man that I have to control them some

way or other. It is not obvious on first side but if you look deeper you can see

it. And I'm totally confused what to do with them :-) because I never have a

real father. All I had was psychopath. I have no idea how it looks when father

talk to doughtier, hugs her , protect her......and I always run if they want to

do that or didn't allow them.I always had to be total independent. Deep down I

always thought that if I allowed somebody near ( real) me I will end up in some

horror and that kindness is some kind of trap and I'll end in horror .My

partners where or total top macho distant man or dependent ones.

So now I don't want to be occupied with my father just with the consequences I

had because of him. Momentary I'm so angry at him that I would spit on his

grave.....and that is probably good sign at least better than denial :-)

PS: Thank you for suggestion about the books. I've already planned to order it.

yenaine

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yenaine, I have almost resolved to be single for the remainder of my life. I am

still very attracted to unhealthy women, but I recognize this now and no longer

pursue them or let them pursue me. The frustrating thing for me is that I do

not find health women attractive. I do like spending time with healthy women,

being friends, but this doesn't seem to work for long. Basically, if I am not

dating material they move on.

Its not that I am not open to dating these healthy women, I am just too slow. I

want to be friends for a while, but they want to get on with it, so they start

dating someone else. Of course, as soon as they get into the dating mode with

someone else, our friendship becomes less important and fades. Then they call

me when they break-up, but I know I will just get abandoned again when the next

guy comes along. That is just the nature of our culture, to find someone of the

opposite sex to share your life with and exclude others of the opposite sex.

I suppose I am just not ready for serious dating yet. My mother was my worst

enemy, then I married and divorced someone that made my mother look like a

saint. I may never be ready, even though I do want someone in my life. The

older I get the less likely I will find someone. I guess I am ok with that.

No, I am lying to myself; it sucks. I want someone in my life and I do not

think I can compete.

>

>

> Thank you all for your response. Without this group I couldn't do all the

work (I'm reading posts daily but most of the time I have not time to respond)

So you get a credit for my healing too :-))

>

> Annie you are an angel. You always know what to say and how to put works. I

admire your wisdom!

>

> I know I've already done a lot. I could be totally messed up with all my past.

It was just that I thought that the big work is over, that I'll just have to

deal with small things from now on.....utopia I know :-)

>

> Basically I'm not interesting about my past any more. It was a long journey

full of denial, anger, grief...but now I'm more interested about the present not

about th past and I focus myself not on other people ( nada) anymore. I just

want to get rid all the weird mind patterns , fears, misconceptions.....all the

sick heritage I get from my childhood.

>

> I found out that a lot of my perception of the world and my reaction are still

influenced from my childhood ( even that I've dealt with that for years now) For

example many years before I thought that woman are stupid, undependable, clingy,

manipulative....I've had just man friends and I didn't want to look or behave

like " stereotipe " woman..After dealing with my nada I found my feminine side too

and I enjoy it. Basically almost all my friends now are woman :-)

>

> The reason I remembered my fada psychopaty was because I was thinking about my

relationship with man. I played a little association game with myself- what

would be the first world crossing my mind if I think about a man. It was anger,

violence, rage, distance, coldness and I thought what!!! where this is coming

from? And than I did remember it. It was total flash.

>

> I know that if you were raised in dysfunctional family you will probably

choose dysfunctional partner. And of course I did. But I couldn' find the basic

patterns. I'm not attracted to partners who " remind " me on my BPD mother anymore

( thanks god!) Now I have to find patterns on my father side.

>

> I found out that I'm basically so afraid of man that I have to control them

some way or other. It is not obvious on first side but if you look deeper you

can see it. And I'm totally confused what to do with them :-) because I never

have a real father. All I had was psychopath. I have no idea how it looks when

father talk to doughtier, hugs her , protect her......and I always run if they

want to do that or didn't allow them.I always had to be total independent. Deep

down I always thought that if I allowed somebody near ( real) me I will end up

in some horror and that kindness is some kind of trap and I'll end in horror .My

partners where or total top macho distant man or dependent ones.

>

> So now I don't want to be occupied with my father just with the consequences I

had because of him. Momentary I'm so angry at him that I would spit on his

grave.....and that is probably good sign at least better than denial :-)

>

> PS: Thank you for suggestion about the books. I've already planned to order

it.

>

>

>

>

> yenaine

>

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> >Hello pdff_usa!

Yes I agree it sucks. I had been at this point " somewhere in the middle " too. I

didn't want to date unhealthy man and healthy ones didn't attract me. But I

think this is just a phase when you stepped out of your old patterns and you

still don't have the new ones and you are somehow between in a zero cone.

I believe you can not change your reality just with wishing that it will be

changed. I know from my experience that if I change myself , heal myself my

percetpion of reality together with concrete realtiy will change with that.

I've worked on myself a lot and slowly it was not just my decision not to date

unhealthy man the reason I was not dating them - they simply didn't attract me

anymore. I see them like they really are now and all the old " magic " is gone.

Then comes the phase " stupid me " " how could I " .......and all the regrets and

sorrow. But you can get over that too. You than leave your past behind and try

living your present as full as you can.

Than the confusion comes when you discover that you don't really know yourself

.. That you don't know what you really want or need. And you have to dig even

deeper :-) And when you realise what you really need and wish you have to search

why you are not allowing that into your life ( for example for me it was deep

fear which make me see man like dangerous, angry....creature who can not be

trusted even if they look and behave nice...and until few days ago I even didn't

see that and push them away)

Now I'm in a phase where I hope that when i will deal with my memories of my

fada and put them behind - my reality would change too. I know it can hapened

because on my journey of healing the world around me already have changed a lot.

Together with what kind of people I meet ( or choose) now

It suck that you have to do so much work because your parents screw you so much.

But it is good to know that you have all the tools in your hands and that now is

up to you what you will do that they can not interfere anymore if you are not

allowing them.

It won't be so tragic if I never will be in a healthy relation. I like my

company :-) have a nice son a lot of good friends and love my work. It would

sure be nice to have somebody but even if I'll not find him I would know that I

do my best that I have tried hard. My life is so different even at the middle on

this journey I can see it is worth.

At least these are my experiences...

You are telling that you are slow. You don't have to rush anywhere. A lot of

women prefer to go into relation step by step . And if the women have to rush

......probably there is a reason for that sometimes not very health one. But we

are insecure too and if the man doesn't speak about himself, his intentions,

thoughts, real emotions at least a bit.....we misunderstand his slowly steps and

think that he is not really interested in us.

It is late here and I'm allready very tired so I hope my writting make some

sense..:-)

Y

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yenaine,I think I hear you. Maybe, after all the trauma that I have been

through, I am a bit distant with my feelings and thoughts about the woman I am

spending time with. I have shared lots of feelings, but not specifically about

her. If I hear you right, women do not necessarily need romance and " I love

you " if I am not ready for that, but they do need to hear how I truly feel and

think about them. I could stand to step up the pace, while still taking it

slow.

Thank you for the input.

.... " we are insecure too and if the man doesn't speak about himself, his

intentions, thoughts, real emotions at least a bit.....we isunderstand his

slowly steps and think that he is not really interested in us. "

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Woman will sooner or later needs to hear " I love you " words but if I would hear

it too soon it would be a red alarm for me :-) When I met somebody I need to

know where I am - what are his intention , what he is looking for so I can

decided if it resonate with me or not to go further or not. People are different

and have different needs or wishes and I'm sure you can find somebody who would

resonate with you. But how she would now that if you are not telling her about

your vision of how you wuld like to be with her. Better to be honest at the

beggining than loosing your time in deadth ends.

But if you even can not imagine saying somebody I love you at all....it's maybe

too early to go into relationship. Instead of looking for a woman who would

" cure " you it is better to cure yourself first. The only woman ( in my opinion)

who would be glad to be with somebody who doesn't know if he wants relation or

not and have some problems with intimacy would be a co-dependent one. Because

she needs to fix somebody problems not to facing her own. It sound great at the

beginning that somebody help you and doesn't demand anything back. But believe

me it soon stops being fun. It is all about controlling and even if it helps you

and you really would cure your problems with her support she would probably

leave you because you won't give her enough " problems to be fixed " any more.

Look deep into yourself - what do you really want and are you already prepared

to get it?

It sucks that we have to do so much work because of sick heritage of our parents

just to come at zero point where we shold be in our 2o-30 ies when we start

looking for a serious parner. But at least we have a chance to do it.

Yust my humble opinion :-)

Yenaine

> ... " we are insecure too and if the man doesn't speak about himself, his

intentions, thoughts, real emotions at least a bit.....we isunderstand his

slowly steps and think that he is not really interested in us. "

>

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