Nada passing messages through me

[Guest guest]

Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

[Guest guest]

I don't have advice right now on how to tell your nada that you're not an

intermediary...(I'm NC with my parents, and my brother is NC with me...but I

did want to say that you're awesome for not passing the messages along to

your sister. Kudos to you!

> **

>

>

> Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

> messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for

> many years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number

> (no more random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to

> pass on messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see

> her again'. I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation.

> Obviously if my sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her

> new number. Anyway, I want nada to get the message that I'm not an

> intermediary, without starting a big fight. What would be the quickest and

> easiest way to let her understand there's no point trying as I'm not passing

> on any messages? And obviously bearing in mind she won't like this new

> boundary! Thanks in advance!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately you will need to be direct, not indirect, and setting a firm

boundary with your nada is not going to make your nada happy with you. You can

say it sweetly, but no matter how you say " I'm sorry but I won't be relaying

messages between you and Sister, mom, and that subject is not open for

discussion " it will probably piss her off.

All you can do is refuse to discuss it with her when she brings it up, and

eventually she may accept that that's the way things are. You can't control how

nada is going to feel, or what nada is going to do, all you can do is decide how

you will react to her.

If every single time nada brings up that subject, you say, " I'm sorry mom but

I've said before that I'm not going to discuss this with you. Is there

something else you wanted to talk with me about? No? Then there are other

things I need to be doing now, I'll talk to you later. 'bye. "

It may take a while, but if she realizes that bringing that up will only get her

a polite cut-off of the phone call (you will have to be very consistent) she

will probably eventually accept your boundary.

-Annie

>

> Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

>

[Guest guest]

That is a tricky one. I am the one who is NC in my family and it was super

annoying when family kept trying to break my NC boundary by delivering messages

from BP mother. With me it is different, my mother was always welcome to call

me and still is, she just chooses not to, because she knows I will not play ball

by her rules. There is no reason for he to call me. So she sends messengers

who are largely clueless as to the true nature of our relationship.

Like I have explained in previous emails, I just got tired of explaining things

and defending myself, so I set the same boundary that your sister did; no

messages. This puts loved ones in a very difficult place, because they do not

want to have to set a boundary with BP that they are not her messenger, but they

want to stay in your life.

One thing you could do is lie. Try this:

1. When BP mother asks you to give your sister a message, say, " ok. "

2. Don't give the message to sister. However, let your sister know that you

will be doing this, but only once.

3. When BP mom asks if you gave sister the message, lie and say yes.

4. If BP asks what sister said, tell the truth and say that sister said nothing

(because you never gave the message).

5. It is likely BP will ask you to explain why sister is NC, tell the truth, " I

don't know. "

Your personal boundary will be to not give BP mother any information about

sister's feelings or thoughts about BP mother; to stay completely out of the

picture. BP mother will never understand why your sister has become NC, nor

will you. So there is absolutely nothing you can do to help either of them.

Or you could just set a boundary with BP mother that you do not want to be her

messenger.

>

> Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

>

[Guest guest]

My nada used to constantly whine to me about my sister being out

of contact. " I don't know why your sister won't talk to me. Why

is she so mean to me? I never did anything to her " and on and

on. Whenever she does this I remind her that she kicked my

sister out of the house at 2 AM with nothing but the clothes on

her back and her purse and no transportation other than her

feet, and that I saw the letter she wrote telling her to never

come back again. She denies kicking her out, but she doesn't

bother denying writing that letter, so that tends to stop the

attempts at message-sending in their tracks. Usually she tells

me to tell my sister that she is sorry. I'm perfectly willing to

pass that particular message on. We always laugh at it because

neither one of us believes she is at all sorry for what she did.

I'm sure she's sorry that the result was my sister staying out

of contact though. Losing her slave really wasn't what she had

in mind.

I don't think there is any quick way of convincing your nada

that there's no point in trying. Nadas just don't/won't/can't

understand that type of thing. In their minds, they did nothing

wrong, so they can't understand why one or more of their

children would choose not to have contact. I think you have two

choices - either make it very clear that you won't pass on

messages by saying so directly, which is likely to upset her and

cause a fight, or agree to pass on the messages then tell your

nada that your sister doesn't want to communicate with her if

she asks for a response. I don't like telling lies, even to a

nada, but you could simply ask your sister if she wants to hear

a message from your nada. If she says " no " , which seems likely,

then you can not give her the message and truthfully tell your

nada that she didn't want to hear it. If that happens often

enough, she may stop trying, or at least try less often, without

having a fight with you.

At 11:43 AM 08/26/2011 valuklon wrote:

>Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying

>again to pass messages through me to my sister who has not been

>in contact with her for many years. Sister has recently moved

>and nada doesn't have her new number (no more random phone

>hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

>messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to

>see her again'. I will not pass any messages as that is a

>boundary violation. Obviously if my sister wanted messages like

>that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I want nada

>to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without

>starting a big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest

>way to let her understand there's no point trying as I'm not

>passing on any messages? And obviously bearing in mind she

>won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand there's no

point trying as I'm not passing on any messages?

" Mom, I'm not comfortable passing Sister messages from you. "

The end.

And no, she's not going to like it. And yes, she will have a million waify

excuses. But it's the only way that has a chance to work. If she tries it again,

you just say, " I'm not going to do that, " and change the subject, or if she

keeps at it, " I'm going to hang up. Call me back when you're ready to talk about

something else. "

My boundary with my parents when we were LC was that I would not discuss my

sister with them at all.

[Guest guest]

Along the same lines what comes to mind for me is to tell your nada, " Mom, I

won't be put in the middle. " , and leave it at that. She's a big girl and

although she won't like it, and may let you know it, she can't really argue with

that either.

> What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand there's no

point trying as I'm not passing on any messages?

>

> " Mom, I'm not comfortable passing Sister messages from you. "

>

> The end.

>

> And no, she's not going to like it. And yes, she will have a million waify

excuses. But it's the only way that has a chance to work. If she tries it again,

you just say, " I'm not going to do that, " and change the subject, or if she

keeps at it, " I'm going to hang up. Call me back when you're ready to talk about

something else. "

>

> My boundary with my parents when we were LC was that I would not discuss my

sister with them at all.

>

[Guest guest]

My nada can and has argued with that. In my experience, nadas

can and will argue about just about anything. They're not

rational, so their arguments aren't necessarily rational.

At 11:21 PM 08/26/2011 True wrote:

>Along the same lines what comes to mind for me is to tell your

>nada, " Mom, I won't be put in the middle. " , and leave it at

>that. She's a big girl and although she won't like it, and may

>let you know it, she can't really argue with that either.

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

That's true.

The point isn't to convince them that you have a right to ask them not to do

what they're doing. If she wants to argue about it, just hang up. Do that enough

times and she'll figure out that if she wants to talk to you she needs to pick a

different topic.

Actions vs. words.

sveta

>

> My nada can and has argued with that. In my experience, nadas

> can and will argue about just about anything. They're not

> rational, so their arguments aren't necessarily rational.

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly. Its the same thing as training a kitten or puppy. You can't *reason*

with the kitten or puppy, you can't explain to them why you want them to do this

or that, and have them understand your request and agree to it.

You simply (in this case) say " No-no " , so that its clear that this is the thing

they are not to do, and you give them an immediate consequence if they do it.

(I immediately removed my kitten from my bedroom if she woke me up at night.

That was a bad consequence for her, she wanted to be with me. She eventually

learned to not wake me up at night.)

-Annie

> >

> > My nada can and has argued with that. In my experience, nadas

> > can and will argue about just about anything. They're not

> > rational, so their arguments aren't necessarily rational.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, after you put the kitten out didn't it just go crazy scratching at the

bedroom door and still keep you awake?

(and if we relate this back to nadas, I find setting a boundary makes them

escalate quite a bit in a similar manner)

> > >

> > > My nada can and has argued with that. In my experience, nadas

> > > can and will argue about just about anything. They're not

> > > rational, so their arguments aren't necessarily rational.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, the training process certainly did keep me awake. Each time my kitten woke

me up, I gently but instantly scooped her off my bed and deposited her outside

my bedroom and shut the door, and she cried, and cried, and cried. It was not

easy for me to do this, but after the 4th or 5th night she finally got it.

Waking mommy up got her immediately put out of the bedroom, away from mommy

altogether.

She woke me up because she wanted my attention, but when she discovered that

waking me up got her the opposite: got her suddenly " banished " and not even in

the same room with mommy, it finally got through to my little kitten that waking

me up resulted in a negative consequence, and she stopped waking me up.

So, yes, setting a reasonable boundary with nada will probably result in her

escalating her negative behaviors, she will rebel, she will NOT be happy about

it.

And it could take a while. But if you hold firm and do not allow her to

verbally castigate you, eventually she will more than likely acquiesce.

If the consequence for crossing your boundary is getting NO attention from you

at all (If each time she brings up the topic, you say, " I'm not going to discuss

that with you, mom. You know that. Is there something else you wanted to talk

with me about? No? Then, I'll talk to you later. I'm hanging up now. Bye. " )

then, nada will eventually realize that she can either have contact with you on

your terms, or no contact. Its her choice.

You do not have to stand there and let her verbally attack you, call you names,

threaten you, manipulate you, cry, etc. You can say " I understand that you are

upset, mother, but I won't listen to you when you are (calling me names,

crying, threatening to kill yourself, screaming at me, etc.) I'll talk to you

again later when you are calmer. Bye. "

Setting boundaries isn't easy, but its necessary if you do not want to be

dominated, controlled and manipulated or FOGged by your nada.

-Annie

>

> Annie, after you put the kitten out didn't it just go crazy scratching at the

bedroom door and still keep you awake?

>

> (and if we relate this back to nadas, I find setting a boundary makes them

escalate quite a bit in a similar manner)

[Guest guest]

Great explanation Annie! I'm imagining a book involving dealing with nadas and

kittens with handy illustrations...

> >

> > Annie, after you put the kitten out didn't it just go crazy scratching at

the bedroom door and still keep you awake?

> >

> > (and if we relate this back to nadas, I find setting a boundary makes them

escalate quite a bit in a similar manner)

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps they will but again that is not our problem. We set boundaries

because that is how we live. How all sane people live. We don t choose

not to call cops on violent arguements because it might make them mad.

If nada reacts badly to boundaries...What ? Of Course nada will react

badly to boundaries. If they choose to respect them occasionally, then

they get to have a bit of normal relationship.

If not. Well, I can hang up a phone as many times as I need to. I can

walk away all day long.

I will.

I did.

Doug

>

> Annie, after you put the kitten out didn't it just go crazy scratching

at the bedroom door and still keep you awake?

>

> (and if we relate this back to nadas, I find setting a boundary makes

them escalate quite a bit in a similar manner)

[Guest guest]

I agree. This works with my nada. You have to be firm and direct. It will not

be received well at first, but even doing nothing wrong gets me in trouble...so

I choose to do things that are right for me. I am trying to give up on always

managing her and just trying to manage me.

> >

> > Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My little brother has been NC for almost three years now and I drew the boundary

that I would not communicate any messages between her and him because they have

both put me in the crosshairs in the past and I wash my hands of all of it.

Brother did slip and ask me to tell her something recently where I reminded him

of my policy. He respects it and understand. Nada however has to have the

boundaries reinforced with regularity. Recently brother moved and nada actually

tried to get ME to give her the new address. I don't even know where he lives

now and wouldn't tell her that. He visits our dad once a week and collects any

mail that he has then. I told her that she could still send stuff to dad's house

if she really felt she must. She tried to say that she KNOWS that dad opens her

stuff and she really didn't like doing that. I just told her that daddy never

opens brother's letters unless brother asks him to.

I would just tell her that you will not deliver messages from either one to the

other. This way nada feels like the other person is being punished too. Yeah,

right.

good luck

>

> Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

>

[Guest guest]

My brother used to be LC and I was always the " mediator " . I stopped putting up

with it a few months before I stopped contact all together. It god so bad that

any time I wanted to spend time with nada, all she would talk about is oooh poor

her and Brother this, Brother that, how come he's so mean? Blah blah blah.

I agree with Carla. Tell her you're not doing it any more and reinforce it. My

hubby and I actually left her house once (thank God for hubby for being the

reinforcer when I was too guilty to follow through)because we told her we'd

leave if she started complaining about my brother. She got the point after that.

You've got to be willing to follow through on consequences.

K

> >

> > Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! It was really helpful. She tends to leave

these types of messages on my voicemail and recently she's also seriously abused

the voicemail privilege so I've had to turn it off (I have a dedicated skype

number for her so no one else is bound to leave voicemails).

I've really got to take a few steps back and consider that the boundary setting

I've worked so hard on in the past few years have just not really worked. Or if

there has been any progress it has been just so slow that I really don't feel

like it's worth my time and effort anymore.

Each visit home she escalates her imaginary medical conditions - now she

apparently has arrhythmia and is wearing a heart monitor and is scheduled for an

operation (she says she doesn't know what the operation is for because they

won't tell her - right!). I just don't know where this will end. It is just a

matter of time before the Canadian medical system realises what she is about and

unfortunately when she is really sick she will not be believed.

So I'm ready to walk away from this one. I'm just not sure if the least said the

better or to explain that trying to remain in contact is just very unpleasant

for me and I think she is extremely troubled and needs to see a therapist. I

just don't want her inventing reasons in her own mind for why I'm not seeing her

such as I'm just not bothered, or rest of family has turned me against her, etc

etc.

What is everyone's opinion? The least said the better or to end it off with a

statement that I won't be in touch because she needs help?

> > >

> > > Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to pass

messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for many

years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no more

random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is a great analogy - hubby and I have just recently adopted a dog from the

animal shelter and we have to start training her. So even if nada never learns

to respect boundaries, I'm pretty sure I'll be much more successful with our

little dog - now that I know what to do!

-

> > >

> > > Annie, after you put the kitten out didn't it just go crazy scratching at

the bedroom door and still keep you awake?

> > >

> > > (and if we relate this back to nadas, I find setting a boundary makes them

escalate quite a bit in a similar manner)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe you could say, " I just need a " time out " , mom. I'm very stressed now and

I need time to work on some things by myself, so I won't be in touch with you

for a while. When I'm ready to resume contact, I'll let you know. "

That way its not about her, you haven't made a negative judgement about her, so

she won't feel as great a need to defend herself. She'll find some way to argue

with you anyway; she'll tell you how you are feeling and she will demand that

you pay attention to her anyway, but, " I need time out " is the reason I used

for going NC with my own nada.

I literally do not listen to any of her messages or read anything she sends me,

but I have that option because my nada lives near my Sister who is acting as

nada's care-supervisor.

And I know that nada is being taken care of, because Sister is good at it and

nada is now living in a nice, expensive residential care home for those with

Alzheimers.

Its a whole different ball-game if you're an only child, though, I can imagine.

-Annie

>

> Thanks everyone for the great advice! It was really helpful. She tends to

leave these types of messages on my voicemail and recently she's also seriously

abused the voicemail privilege so I've had to turn it off (I have a dedicated

skype number for her so no one else is bound to leave voicemails).

>

> I've really got to take a few steps back and consider that the boundary

setting I've worked so hard on in the past few years have just not really

worked. Or if there has been any progress it has been just so slow that I really

don't feel like it's worth my time and effort anymore.

>

> Each visit home she escalates her imaginary medical conditions - now she

apparently has arrhythmia and is wearing a heart monitor and is scheduled for an

operation (she says she doesn't know what the operation is for because they

won't tell her - right!). I just don't know where this will end. It is just a

matter of time before the Canadian medical system realises what she is about and

unfortunately when she is really sick she will not be believed.

>

> So I'm ready to walk away from this one. I'm just not sure if the least said

the better or to explain that trying to remain in contact is just very

unpleasant for me and I think she is extremely troubled and needs to see a

therapist. I just don't want her inventing reasons in her own mind for why I'm

not seeing her such as I'm just not bothered, or rest of family has turned me

against her, etc etc.

>

> What is everyone's opinion? The least said the better or to end it off with a

statement that I won't be in touch because she needs help?

[Guest guest]

valuklon, no matter what you say or don't say, she will not understand.

However, for your own sanity, you need to plan to tell her something. You need

closure. However, do not expect her to understand a word you say.

You don't have to cut her off immediately; let the relationship naturally

de-escalate. When you set boundaries, the relationship with be affected. She

will see that she is pushing you away; let her push you away. For your own

peace of mind, describe to her what she is doing to push you away and she will

tell you how you are to blame. The process could be fast (like in my case) or

she may try to remedy her behavior. Many BPs never get the chance to see how

they push people away. You can show her; " you called me just 10 minutes ago,

this isn't ok with me " " you are blaming me again so I am going to hang up " " I

did not ask for your advice and I want to stop " " You are embarrassing me and I

do not like being around you when you embarrass me. "

valuklon, do what you need to do to start living your life. You have the

permission and support of this group to move forward. Be you, no matter what it

takes.

> > > >

> > > > Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to

pass messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with her for

many years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her new number (no

more random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now nada wants me to pass on

messages such as 'say happy birthday from me and that I want to see her again'.

I will not pass any messages as that is a boundary violation. Obviously if my

sister wanted messages like that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I

want nada to get the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a

big fight. What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand

there's no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You cannot train a BP. The quickest way, certainly not the easiest, is

to say Mom, I won t do it. I will not pass your messages along to sis

because she doesnt want them. That is between you and her.

If you ask me again, I ll not talk to you for a month. If you ask me

again after a month, it will be 2 months next time. If you keep it up,

you ll lose contact with me as well as sis.

So if you want to be able to talk to me at all, do not bring this up.

and let her bitch, but enforce what you say.

Doug

>

> Hi all, just a quick piece of advice please! Nada is trying again to

pass messages through me to my sister who has not been in contact with

her for many years. Sister has recently moved and nada doesn't have her

new number (no more random phone hang-ups for my sister, yipee!) Now

nada wants me to pass on messages such as 'say happy birthday from me

and that I want to see her again'. I will not pass any messages as that

is a boundary violation. Obviously if my sister wanted messages like

that she'd have given nada her new number. Anyway, I want nada to get

the message that I'm not an intermediary, without starting a big fight.

What would be the quickest and easiest way to let her understand there's

no point trying as I'm not passing on any messages? And obviously

bearing in mind she won't like this new boundary! Thanks in advance!

>