perspective needed

[Guest guest]

Hi all, I've not been posting much lately due to lots of real life stress and

distractions. But today I thought, I really need some outside perspectives and

knew this was the place. Here's the situation... My nada is in poor health

but is still living independently in her own home. She had a helper who came

in once a week who helped her with basic household stuff, but that person moved

away. It was a huge struggle to get her to accept this person to begin with and

now she's putting up walls again. Saying she doesn't feel well enough to handle

" the stress " of a new helper, in the meanwhile her home is getting filthier and

there are food safety issues.

Here's the part that's making me go crazy though. Her vision got blurry in one

eye and it was discovered she has some kind of retinopathy - pretty seriously

advanced. Her ophthalmologist ordered her to get a series of tests from her GP

done immediately last week - she put it off, she got sick, she's trying to put

it off some more. I and her sister have shown her research from the web that

what is wrong with her likely indicates a systemic problem that if it isn't

fixed she may be in very serious risk of having a stroke and having continued

damage to her vision and other parts of her body. She ignores all of this,

focuses on a theory she has which makes it sound less serious and continues to

delay. It's like she won't lift a finger to help herself - she has a blood

pressure kit at home and hasn't taken it even once since all this started.

Hypertensive retinopathy is a real possibility here - this is the scariest

option with the greatest stroke risk. I've pushed her as far as I can without

her just shutting down and refusing to talk to me.

My nada's health has always been the weak point of my boundaries. Before she

started having health problems I was able to live far away and pursue my own

goals pretty well - with some guilt yes, but I was clear on what wasn't mine.

Now that my nada is having real physical problems and showing mental problems in

managing it, what is my obligation? If this continues she may literally be

moving towards a stroke and/or blindness. Odds are even if there are things

she can do with monitoring and medication to stop this, she's unlikely to do so.

So do I just...let go? It's one thing to say it's her bed she made it for so

many things in life, but this is so serious. How do I watch her walking off a

cliff?

I know I'm falling into black/white thinking here, but I feel like she's pushed

me into it. It's like either I don't say anything and maintain the relationship

as it is while she drives her health off a cliff (and oh yeah, about

driving...). I strongly keep telling her she's risking her health and she cuts

me off and/or refuses to talk about it anymore. Or I look into getting her

declared incompetent in some form so she can be forced to get proper treatment

but that would likely involve her being put in a home against her will.

Now that I've written all this out - and thanks for reading - it looks like I

probably should just let her destroy herself if she wants to. But I don't want

to watch.

So any perspectives???

Eliza

[Guest guest]

Ah, this is a tough one. No real advice here, just commiseration ... in the same

sort of place with my nada, who is 81 and hasn't been to a doctor in 46 years.

Her ankles are so swollen that the skin is cracked and infected. She's been

huffing and puffing as she moves around for at least 30 years- can we say

" congestive heart failure " ?

She also hasn't been to the dentist in 28 years or so. And she broke her partial

a few weeks back, and absolutely refuses to go to the dentist. She says, " No, he

just wants my money. "

Also has a bad hip, she says its her knee, or maybe it is just the swollen

legs/ankles, can hardly even walk around at all. REFUSES to see a doctor. ARG!

My brother wanted me to " make her go to the doctor. " Yeah, right. No can do.

I won't even try. It's just not worth the emotional trauma to me. Even if she'd

go, she would not follow through with anything. Just not worth it.

>

> Hi all, I've not been posting much lately due to lots of real life stress and

distractions. But today I thought, I really need some outside perspectives and

knew this was the place. Here's the situation... My nada is in poor health

but is still living independently in her own home. She had a helper who came

in once a week who helped her with basic household stuff, but that person moved

away. It was a huge struggle to get her to accept this person to begin with and

now she's putting up walls again. Saying she doesn't feel well enough to handle

" the stress " of a new helper, in the meanwhile her home is getting filthier and

there are food safety issues.

>

> Here's the part that's making me go crazy though. Her vision got blurry in

one eye and it was discovered she has some kind of retinopathy - pretty

seriously advanced. Her ophthalmologist ordered her to get a series of tests

from her GP done immediately last week - she put it off, she got sick, she's

trying to put it off some more. I and her sister have shown her research from

the web that what is wrong with her likely indicates a systemic problem that if

it isn't fixed she may be in very serious risk of having a stroke and having

continued damage to her vision and other parts of her body. She ignores all of

this, focuses on a theory she has which makes it sound less serious and

continues to delay. It's like she won't lift a finger to help herself - she has

a blood pressure kit at home and hasn't taken it even once since all this

started. Hypertensive retinopathy is a real possibility here - this is the

scariest option with the greatest stroke risk. I've pushed her as far as I can

without her just shutting down and refusing to talk to me.

>

> My nada's health has always been the weak point of my boundaries. Before she

started having health problems I was able to live far away and pursue my own

goals pretty well - with some guilt yes, but I was clear on what wasn't mine.

Now that my nada is having real physical problems and showing mental problems in

managing it, what is my obligation? If this continues she may literally be

moving towards a stroke and/or blindness. Odds are even if there are things

she can do with monitoring and medication to stop this, she's unlikely to do so.

So do I just...let go? It's one thing to say it's her bed she made it for so

many things in life, but this is so serious. How do I watch her walking off a

cliff?

>

> I know I'm falling into black/white thinking here, but I feel like she's

pushed me into it. It's like either I don't say anything and maintain the

relationship as it is while she drives her health off a cliff (and oh yeah,

about driving...). I strongly keep telling her she's risking her health and

she cuts me off and/or refuses to talk about it anymore. Or I look into getting

her declared incompetent in some form so she can be forced to get proper

treatment but that would likely involve her being put in a home against her

will.

>

> Now that I've written all this out - and thanks for reading - it looks like I

probably should just let her destroy herself if she wants to. But I don't want

to watch.

>

> So any perspectives???

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

I can sympathize with your position. My Sister and I were spared these

agonizing decisions because our borderline pd/narcissistic pd mother, who is in

her early 80's, rather suddenly and dramatically began showing the symptoms of

advanced Alzheimer's disease.

Nada was no longer able to hide that she was hallucinating nearly constantly.

She shared with Sister that our deceased loved ones (dad and his mom) were

visiting her all the time. She believe that " people " had planted hidden cameras

in her walls, so she taped up all the electrical outlets so they couldn't spy on

her. That sort of thing.

When her delusions and paranoid beliefs became more scary to her, she began

wandering outside her apartment grounds at night (and exhibiting other

self-destructive behaviors). It became clear that our nada needed to be

relocated to an assisted living residence for her own safety. So, after three

different psych evaluations, nada is now living in the Alzheimer's unit of a

very nice assisted living residence.

While your nada is still lucid, still mentally competent, you can't make her get

medical care or take better care of herself. All you can do is remind her that

she needs to do these things for her own health.

If it makes you feel better, you could perhaps set up an appointment for

yourself with her regular medical doctor and express your concerns to him or

her, and ask the doctor's advice on what your options are regarding getting nada

a medical and/or psychological evaluation, exploring different assisted care

residences in nada's area, etc.

Just, please don't feel guilt because nothing you can possibly say or do will

make your nada better, either mentally or physically. You didn't break her, you

can't fix her. You can offer emotional support, you can do some research about

nice assisted living places she can move into, you can help her get organized

and get her relocated when the time comes, but you can't *make* her take care of

herself. Its not within your power, and its not your job, its her job.

No guilt.

-Annie

>

> Hi all, I've not been posting much lately due to lots of real life stress and

distractions. But today I thought, I really need some outside perspectives and

knew this was the place. Here's the situation... My nada is in poor health

but is still living independently in her own home. She had a helper who came

in once a week who helped her with basic household stuff, but that person moved

away. It was a huge struggle to get her to accept this person to begin with and

now she's putting up walls again. Saying she doesn't feel well enough to handle

" the stress " of a new helper, in the meanwhile her home is getting filthier and

there are food safety issues.

>

> Here's the part that's making me go crazy though. Her vision got blurry in

one eye and it was discovered she has some kind of retinopathy - pretty

seriously advanced. Her ophthalmologist ordered her to get a series of tests

from her GP done immediately last week - she put it off, she got sick, she's

trying to put it off some more. I and her sister have shown her research from

the web that what is wrong with her likely indicates a systemic problem that if

it isn't fixed she may be in very serious risk of having a stroke and having

continued damage to her vision and other parts of her body. She ignores all of

this, focuses on a theory she has which makes it sound less serious and

continues to delay. It's like she won't lift a finger to help herself - she has

a blood pressure kit at home and hasn't taken it even once since all this

started. Hypertensive retinopathy is a real possibility here - this is the

scariest option with the greatest stroke risk. I've pushed her as far as I can

without her just shutting down and refusing to talk to me.

>

> My nada's health has always been the weak point of my boundaries. Before she

started having health problems I was able to live far away and pursue my own

goals pretty well - with some guilt yes, but I was clear on what wasn't mine.

Now that my nada is having real physical problems and showing mental problems in

managing it, what is my obligation? If this continues she may literally be

moving towards a stroke and/or blindness. Odds are even if there are things

she can do with monitoring and medication to stop this, she's unlikely to do so.

So do I just...let go? It's one thing to say it's her bed she made it for so

many things in life, but this is so serious. How do I watch her walking off a

cliff?

>

> I know I'm falling into black/white thinking here, but I feel like she's

pushed me into it. It's like either I don't say anything and maintain the

relationship as it is while she drives her health off a cliff (and oh yeah,

about driving...). I strongly keep telling her she's risking her health and

she cuts me off and/or refuses to talk about it anymore. Or I look into getting

her declared incompetent in some form so she can be forced to get proper

treatment but that would likely involve her being put in a home against her

will.

>

> Now that I've written all this out - and thanks for reading - it looks like I

probably should just let her destroy herself if she wants to. But I don't want

to watch.

>

> So any perspectives???

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

eliza, it sounds like you parted ways with your mother to some degree and that

worked while she was able to take care of herself. But now she is getting old

and is less able to manager her own affairs. My mother is deteriorating with

old age too and I have been thinking a lot about it. She still has her husband,

so I do not have to get involved. I don't think I will ever need to be her

executor, because she has her husbands children, who will likely take care of

her when both she and her husband are too old to take care of themselves.

However,if I imagine that my BP mother had no one except me and she refused my

help, I think I would have done as much as I can do. No one can force you to do

anything, unless it become clear that she is no longer competent.

Unfortunately, incompetence is when someone is no longer able to get up and go

to the bathroom, so they poop in their pants or are unable to pay their bills

because they can't remember to. Refusal of medical care is perfectly in her

rights, even if it puts her health at risk.

Old people can be stubborn and it sometimes takes someone that they trust to get

them to do what they need to do. Basically, someone needs to override their

will, but you can only do that if they have that kind of a relationship with

them. Otherwise they will just kick you out of their house.

So, I guess you have to judge for yourself if you have the kind of relationship

with your BP mother where you have the power to say, " mom, we are going to the

doctor today and you do not have a choice. " Will she kick you out or will she

get in the car?

Good luck

>

> Hi all, I've not been posting much lately due to lots of real life stress and

distractions. But today I thought, I really need some outside perspectives and

knew this was the place. Here's the situation... My nada is in poor health

but is still living independently in her own home. She had a helper who came

in once a week who helped her with basic household stuff, but that person moved

away. It was a huge struggle to get her to accept this person to begin with and

now she's putting up walls again. Saying she doesn't feel well enough to handle

" the stress " of a new helper, in the meanwhile her home is getting filthier and

there are food safety issues.

>

> Here's the part that's making me go crazy though. Her vision got blurry in

one eye and it was discovered she has some kind of retinopathy - pretty

seriously advanced. Her ophthalmologist ordered her to get a series of tests

from her GP done immediately last week - she put it off, she got sick, she's

trying to put it off some more. I and her sister have shown her research from

the web that what is wrong with her likely indicates a systemic problem that if

it isn't fixed she may be in very serious risk of having a stroke and having

continued damage to her vision and other parts of her body. She ignores all of

this, focuses on a theory she has which makes it sound less serious and

continues to delay. It's like she won't lift a finger to help herself - she has

a blood pressure kit at home and hasn't taken it even once since all this

started. Hypertensive retinopathy is a real possibility here - this is the

scariest option with the greatest stroke risk. I've pushed her as far as I can

without her just shutting down and refusing to talk to me.

>

> My nada's health has always been the weak point of my boundaries. Before she

started having health problems I was able to live far away and pursue my own

goals pretty well - with some guilt yes, but I was clear on what wasn't mine.

Now that my nada is having real physical problems and showing mental problems in

managing it, what is my obligation? If this continues she may literally be

moving towards a stroke and/or blindness. Odds are even if there are things

she can do with monitoring and medication to stop this, she's unlikely to do so.

So do I just...let go? It's one thing to say it's her bed she made it for so

many things in life, but this is so serious. How do I watch her walking off a

cliff?

>

> I know I'm falling into black/white thinking here, but I feel like she's

pushed me into it. It's like either I don't say anything and maintain the

relationship as it is while she drives her health off a cliff (and oh yeah,

about driving...). I strongly keep telling her she's risking her health and

she cuts me off and/or refuses to talk about it anymore. Or I look into getting

her declared incompetent in some form so she can be forced to get proper

treatment but that would likely involve her being put in a home against her

will.

>

> Now that I've written all this out - and thanks for reading - it looks like I

probably should just let her destroy herself if she wants to. But I don't want

to watch.

>

> So any perspectives???

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

Hello !

My nada (70) allway tried to use her illness for manipulate me into helping her

and of course she never ever did anything what was suggested she just took all

the attention and probably made things worse on purpuse just to get more

attention.

At one point I had enough of that. I told her that I won't help her anymore

and that I would stop doing that because she use that as manipulation tool. She

tried anything to get me back where she wanted me to be including fake suicide

attempt. I just called the ambulance and told her one more time that I couldn't

help her.

It takes some time and a few more attempts to manipulate me but when she saw

that nothing what she tried didn't change my mind she stopped. Now she accepts a

little help from professionals at least to the level that her health is not in

real danger.

Sometimes it was hard not to fell in FOG trap but it was worth it. It is her

life and she is responsible for her decisions even if she has BPD. If she will

be so deteriorated in the future that she will be real danger to herself I

would call the doctor to write it down formally and put her in home for elderly

people where she can get all professional help she needs.

Yenaine

[Guest guest]

I agree with Annie: no guilt. Nadas don't ever do anything they don't want to.

You can't force her to take care of herself.

Man, can I identify with the housekeeper thing. My Nada went through dozens

before she finally found one who she didn't accuse of stealing from her. I don't

know what will happen when my mother finally drives that poor woman away.

My theory is that Nadas purposely don't take care of themselves because they're

counting on someone else to take care of them. It's all about control again.

They figure as they fall apart they can get other people to wait on them hand

and foot AND they have an excuse to be abusive at the same time. " I'm sick, I

don't feel well so I have the right to treat other people like crap. " That kind

of thing.

>

> Hi all, I've not been posting much lately due to lots of real life stress and

distractions. But today I thought, I really need some outside perspectives and

knew this was the place. Here's the situation... My nada is in poor health

but is still living independently in her own home. She had a helper who came

in once a week who helped her with basic household stuff, but that person moved

away. It was a huge struggle to get her to accept this person to begin with and

now she's putting up walls again. Saying she doesn't feel well enough to handle

" the stress " of a new helper, in the meanwhile her home is getting filthier and

there are food safety issues.

>

> Here's the part that's making me go crazy though. Her vision got blurry in

one eye and it was discovered she has some kind of retinopathy - pretty

seriously advanced. Her ophthalmologist ordered her to get a series of tests

from her GP done immediately last week - she put it off, she got sick, she's

trying to put it off some more. I and her sister have shown her research from

the web that what is wrong with her likely indicates a systemic problem that if

it isn't fixed she may be in very serious risk of having a stroke and having

continued damage to her vision and other parts of her body. She ignores all of

this, focuses on a theory she has which makes it sound less serious and

continues to delay. It's like she won't lift a finger to help herself - she has

a blood pressure kit at home and hasn't taken it even once since all this

started. Hypertensive retinopathy is a real possibility here - this is the

scariest option with the greatest stroke risk. I've pushed her as far as I can

without her just shutting down and refusing to talk to me.

>

> My nada's health has always been the weak point of my boundaries. Before she

started having health problems I was able to live far away and pursue my own

goals pretty well - with some guilt yes, but I was clear on what wasn't mine.

Now that my nada is having real physical problems and showing mental problems in

managing it, what is my obligation? If this continues she may literally be

moving towards a stroke and/or blindness. Odds are even if there are things

she can do with monitoring and medication to stop this, she's unlikely to do so.

So do I just...let go? It's one thing to say it's her bed she made it for so

many things in life, but this is so serious. How do I watch her walking off a

cliff?

>

> I know I'm falling into black/white thinking here, but I feel like she's

pushed me into it. It's like either I don't say anything and maintain the

relationship as it is while she drives her health off a cliff (and oh yeah,

about driving...). I strongly keep telling her she's risking her health and

she cuts me off and/or refuses to talk about it anymore. Or I look into getting

her declared incompetent in some form so she can be forced to get proper

treatment but that would likely involve her being put in a home against her

will.

>

> Now that I've written all this out - and thanks for reading - it looks like I

probably should just let her destroy herself if she wants to. But I don't want

to watch.

>

> So any perspectives???

>

> Eliza

>