Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The loneliness is still there... Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 HI there - I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. I wish you your version of the same success. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Wow, that was an amazing response. I truly enjoyed reading what you wrote. I just wanted to say she is absolutely right. I also fit the description of outgoing, assertive, confident but inside often feel very lonely. Something my T pointed out to me was that a lot of that feeling is because I refuse to allow myself to be vulnerable and intimate with others in relationships. That level of intimacy is often what makes us feel " loved " . I didn't get that growing up because I was always being put in the role of protecting my nada's feelings. Something I have recently recalled is that nada often acted like she genuinely was interested in knowing private details of my life and when I would finally open up and tell her, she almost always exploited those details to others - telling them in crowds of people in front of me, laughing at me later, etc. So I learned quickly as a child and young teen that it was not safe to be vulnerable with those closest to me. What you said about your partner struck me. I had dated a guy who, in retrospect, was definitely BPD or something of the like when I was 21. I thought for sure he was my soulmate and we would get married. I ended up breaking up with him, thank GOD! A few years later, a mutual friend played matchmaker trying to get me and my now husband to go on a date. I resisted it so hard because he was not " my type " . He didn't fit what I thought my mate would be (because he wasn't mentally ill and wasn't going to emotionally abuse me.) So glad I listened to logic and not my emotions! It takes a lot of support and strength to stop gravitating towards those emotionally needy/ill people but once you do, it is so freeing and healing! I think she had great suggestions about Therapy, etc. Huge hugs. Its a journey but one well worth taking. > > HI there - > > I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. > > I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... > > For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. > I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... > > The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. > > Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. > > Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. > > I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. > > You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. > > It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) > > The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. > In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. > > So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. > > Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) > > I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. > > I wish you your version of the same success. : ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Your post gives me hope. I too am a former " all good " kid. I feel socially backward, social functions are a torture! I struggle to not stick out like a sore thumb, to feel comfortable in a group of people. How to stand, how to act, constantly over thinking interactions while they are happening. And as for friends, I'm at the 'been there, done it stage' and don't want to put out more energy into doomed friendships. I'm people shy. My husband gets tons of social interaction at work, and wants no more socializing after work except from me and the kids. I work in a 1-girl office, with a narcissist boss. I am lonely as hell. My MIL has always disliked me (and her son), I am not religious. I have a sibling that lives and hour away, and my kids. My BPD mother & dishrag dad have divorced me. I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). Boy, this turned into a poor me post--which was not my intention. I am grateful for your post--you hit the nail on the head for me. > > HI there - > > I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. > > I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... > > For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. > I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... > > The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. > > Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. > > Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. > > I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. > > You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. > > It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) > > The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. > In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. > > So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. > > Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) > > I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. > > I wish you your version of the same success. : ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 No, I don't hear what you are saying as a " poor me " post - I hear you sharing, and feel so much the same stuff. While I do mean all I wrote in my first post, I've got a lot of the same challenges and working through them is not sunshine and daisies much of the time. I, too, am quite 'people shy' at the moment; I feel like I'm taking baby steps towards making new friends, but still feel pretty clueless about how to go about it. I'm 35 - and it seems to get harder as you get older, since so many people already have social networks that don't feel 'open' to new people. I am not religious, either - and have tried the taking class route - and am rather introverted by nature - my partner is well also well socialized at work - when I realized that my workplace dynamics echoed my family dynamics (aside - it is amazing how one can unconsciously manage to manifest their unfinished business in all arenas of life until one recognizes it for what it is), I left my job, and shifted career paths entirely --- good news -> my day job involves working in a great place, with wonderful people; tricky part - my work is very solitary, and I can go through a day without speaking more than a sentence to any one, just because of the nature of the work. ....But I figure if I can just keep my eyes and heart open, and push myself outside my comfort zone a little more at a time that eventually it'll pay off...Trust is a hard thing to relearn. I think it takes time, patience, and actual calculated practice. The hard part too, for me, anyway, is seeing the old friendships for what they are, and probably always were...doesn't make me love the people less, but does tell me that I can't continue to be in them in the old way if I want to be happy, healthy, and less lonely. Einstein was so right about repetition of things that don't work...Retrain your brain, and your emotions will follow. (At least, it seems to be working that way for me...I'm writing this as much as a reminder to myself, as reassurance to you.) And the more I work at it, the more I realize I have a choice, and that there is always hope hidden somewhere under the despair. (At least, I hope so...) Take care, and thanks for sharing. It is nice to know I'm not lonely alone. > > > > HI there - > > > > I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. > > > > I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... > > > > For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. > > I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... > > > > The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. > > > > Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. > > > > Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. > > > > I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. > > > > You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. > > > > It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) > > > > The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. > > In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. > > > > So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. > > > > Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) > > > > I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. > > > > I wish you your version of the same success. : ) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Cheers for this. I said it before, but will risk being redundant when I say it is good to discover I'm not alone in what always felt like alien loneliness. Take care and good luck on your journey. > > > > HI there - > > > > I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. > > > > I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... > > > > For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. > > I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... > > > > The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. > > > > Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. > > > > Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. > > > > I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. > > > > You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. > > > > It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) > > > > The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. > > In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. > > > > So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. > > > > Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) > > > > I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. > > > > I wish you your version of the same success. : ) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Thanks for writing this. I feel so similiar. My therapist told me the EMDR works best for specific trauma not ongoing chronic emotional and verbal abuse that has haunted me for 49 years. Does that sound right to you? Also, is there an " aha " moment when seeing your pattern. I am still doing repitition compulsion in relationships because of the chronic verbal abuse. I guess I want to be done with it. My therapist still sees things that I do that I am not even aware of. Thanks so much for writing your story. Felicia Ward Remember that people often have different perceptions of the same reality. You can both be right, and no one has to be wrong, if each of you is willing to let the other person have his or her perceptions and if both of you are willing to compromise. To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Lonely...  HI there - I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. I wish you your version of the same success. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 " echobabe_is_free " wrote: > …. > I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). Boy I know how you feel…I'm beginning to reflect a little more these days and I'm just beginning to remember that my family never had any visitors. We moved on average every 16 months until I was 14, and over 3 different continents. So I was never really 'socialised' and after coming through that my adult life has been a mixture of my parents nearly regular annual crisis and my own personal health crises so have never been able to be there for others. (No one wants to know when beset by *constant* problems many of which aren't of my own making). Recently I tried to get out to classes and interest groups and found the same - it's demoralising. I don't bother any more either and accept it as the ways things are. But I am lonely and don't want to be seen as socially isolated. Sadly things feel worse because I never found someone to settle down with either - I've just ended a long 10 year relationship. Having started plucking out my newly found grey hairs I beginning to wonder what it's going to be like a few years down the road….Strangely my parents have me to call on in times of trouble yet I can't call in return and after they go I'll be the classic spinster. Tonight it feels like life sucks… (sorry I'm so angry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 What you wrote here just stunned me: " Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) " This is my relationship with my hubby to a tee. How functional we are actually scares me. The idea of being single is FAR easier than the idea of being married. It took me a long time to agree to get married and I'm glad I am. Thanks for writing that. It just solidifies my suspicions that I was not a good judge of relationships for myself before. Being a good partner is a lot of work for me - but worth it. K > > Thanks for writing this. I feel so similiar. My therapist told me the EMDR works best for specific trauma not ongoing chronic emotional and verbal abuse that has haunted me for 49 years. Does that sound right to you? > Also, is there an " aha " moment when seeing your pattern. I am still doing repitition compulsion in relationships because of the chronic verbal abuse. I guess I want to be done with it. My therapist still sees things that I do that I am not even aware of. Thanks so much for writing your story. > > Felicia Ward > Remember that people often have different perceptions of the same reality. You can both be right, and no one has to be wrong, if each of you is willing to let the other person have his or her perceptions and if both of you are willing to compromise. > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: Lonely... > > >  > > HI there - > > I just logged on to write a first post, but was so struck by yours that thought I'd dive in here instead. I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, but you are not alone in being lonely. > > I completely hear and relate to what you have written. I know the feeling all too well, and wanted to share what I can about working out the feeling...for me, its a work in progress, but I have good reason, and experience to be hopeful about it. I hope you can find that, too... > > For me, I've spent much of my life feeling invisible, and wondering why. Despite having life-long friends, loving and true friends, I have been haunted by the feelings you describe. > I think I'm finally figuring it out the 'why'... > > The feelings you describe are part of what led me into therapy -- and it took me a couple of years before I recognized and accepted that I'd been a parentified child, that the mother I needed to believe had been ideal (because she needed to believe it about herself) had actually been emotionally abusive of me, emotional and physically abusive of my brother; that the closeness I thought we shared was actually a complex entangled contract that involved me holding up her version of reality like a tiny incompetent Atlas until I chose to shrug. > > Interestingly, it took me a long time trying to understand this persistent pattern in my other relationships - wondering why I always fell into the role of problem-solver or therapist with my closest friends and lovers; wondering why I was only ever attracted to emotionally complicated men with deep-seated attachment issues - before I really saw the origin of the pattern clearly in myself and in the nature of my attachment to my mother. > > Once I saw that I was 'relating to the world as one giant mother', my loneliness made 'sense' (in that illogical sort of sense way) - of course I was attracted to troubled people who wanted to relate to me through needing my help, through mutual complaint; of course my 'comfort zone' in relating to other people involved my solving their problems while I sloughed through mine alone, holding back all of my feelings - even tho' I resented it, it was familiar, it was family. That's how I understood 'connected' to feel. It's how I was raised - My own attachment pattern to my mother involved denying all of my true feelings in order to maintain and sustain my connection to her. Its not possible to feel anything *but* lonely when what you think of as 'connecting' means making your true self invisible. > > I'm not sure what your background is, but, from my own experience, having a parent who has BPD (in my case, my mother, informally diagnosed but fitting the 'high-functioning borderline' description given in SWOE to the letter) - also means you likely grew up with a very skewed, tinted understanding of social dynamics. When, as a child, you learn your social cuing from some one as vulnerable, threatened, and internally doubtful of their self-worth as a parent with BPD, what feels 'normal' to you is likely alien to the majority of people who didn't grow up that way. > > You might well be missing social cues that, once you learn to see them for what they are, will invite you into new kinds of relationships (or interactions within current relationships) that you find more fulfilling. The good news - you can choose to learn them. > > It takes time, it means being uncomfortable - but is it *ever* worth trying to get across that bridge! (And I say this as someone who is only part way over the bridge, still trying to learn this stuff--- who, while confident at work, in classrooms, when talking about opinions feels genuinely assertive and confident - but when in a room full of strangers in purely a social setting, I never feel more anxious or absolutely lonely.) > > The other thing - for me, PTSD is also part of the loneliness equation. (As I understand it many " all-good " children of BDP parents are also in the PTSD club.) Before I knew that I had PTSD, all I knew was that I felt trapped in my worst emotions and memories of the past, unable to shake them off. The more you try to run from the feeling, the more its undertow pulls you beneath its wave. It is literally being haunted by your old worst feelings. Once I began treating the PTSD (w/EMDR), its amazing how many of your old feelings dissipate. > In essence, by treating PTSD, you have the opportunity to rewire your old, stuck feelings - to stop the feedback loop and defuse your triggers. Old feelings that haunt you (PTSD or no) tend to be trying to communicate with you about unmet needs and unfinished business. Once you finish the business, they let go and their energy becomes something else. Truly letting go isn't an just intellectual thing - its physical and emotional, too. > > So - to sum it all up - when I was wearing similar shoes, what worked for me was to find an excellent psychodynamic therapist, take your time and develop trust in that relationship, and together, put my attachment patterns under the microscope and figure out what's not working, and how it echos your past. Figure out which part of it is the people you are choosing and why you choose them. If you are at all like I was, the people to whom I felt most intimately drawn to were generally echos of my complex unresolved entanglement with my mom. (And it'll shock you to see it, because you probably thought you were choosing people who were opposite...) Once I figured that out, and could look at my life through a different framework - great things started to happen a little at a time. > > Be forewarned, good relationships may feel 'wrong' at first - your instincts about who to befriend/trust, when to open up may be misrouted based from experience. I nearly ran away from my darling partner of 7 years because he didn't seem like my type. (He wasn't, and it's fabulous! He's more of what I longed for than I could have ever dreamed of wanting in a mate.) > > I hope this helped...it helped me to write. I had a lousy conversation with my mom today - and it helps to remember how much has changed since the days when I wondered what I was was doing wrong in life, why I felt so alien and unable to communicate, why I was depressed. I get it now, and I'm getting over it. > > I wish you your version of the same success. : ) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks very much for the positive feedback! I, too, have come to the realization that I need to change jobs/careers as one step toward being more involved with people day to day. <Retrain your brain, and your emotions will follow.> I like this very much. > > No, I don't hear what you are saying as a " poor me " post - I hear you sharing, and feel so much the same stuff. While I do mean all I wrote in my first post, I've got a lot of the same challenges and working through them is not sunshine and daisies much of the time. > > I, too, am quite 'people shy' at the moment; I feel like I'm taking baby steps towards making new friends, but still feel pretty clueless about how to go about it. > I'm 35 - and it seems to get harder as you get older, since so many people already have social networks that don't feel 'open' to new people. I am not religious, either - and have tried the taking class route - and am rather introverted by nature - my partner is well also well socialized at work - when I realized that my workplace dynamics echoed my family dynamics (aside - it is amazing how one can unconsciously manage to manifest their unfinished business in all arenas of life until one recognizes it for what it is), I left my job, and shifted career paths entirely --- good news -> my day job involves working in a great place, with wonderful people; tricky part - my work is very solitary, and I can go through a day without speaking more than a sentence to any one, just because of the nature of the work. > > ...But I figure if I can just keep my eyes and heart open, and push myself outside my comfort zone a little more at a time that eventually it'll pay off...Trust is a hard thing to relearn. I think it takes time, patience, and actual calculated practice. > > The hard part too, for me, anyway, is seeing the old friendships for what they are, and probably always were...doesn't make me love the people less, but does tell me that I can't continue to be in them in the old way if I want to be happy, healthy, and less lonely. > > Einstein was so right about repetition of things that don't work...Retrain your brain, and your emotions will follow. (At least, it seems to be working that way for me...I'm writing this as much as a reminder to myself, as reassurance to you.) > > And the more I work at it, the more I realize I have a choice, and that there is always hope hidden somewhere under the despair. (At least, I hope so...) > > Take care, and thanks for sharing. It is nice to know I'm not lonely alone. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I am really sorry this was weighing so much on your mind when you wrote this. We are lovable people who have chosen to isolate and/or put up thick walls that makes it hard for others to see how wonderful we really are. > > …. > > I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). > > Boy I know how you feel…I'm beginning to reflect a little more these days and I'm just beginning to remember that my family never had any visitors. We moved on average every 16 months until I was 14, and over 3 different continents. So I was never really 'socialised' and after coming through that my adult life has been a mixture of my parents nearly regular annual crisis and my own personal health crises so have never been able to be there for others. (No one wants to know when beset by *constant* problems many of which aren't of my own making). > > Recently I tried to get out to classes and interest groups and found the same - it's demoralising. I don't bother any more either and accept it as the ways things are. But I am lonely and don't want to be seen as socially isolated. Sadly things feel worse because I never found someone to settle down with either - I've just ended a long 10 year relationship. Having started plucking out my newly found grey hairs I beginning to wonder what it's going to be like a few years down the road….Strangely my parents have me to call on in times of trouble yet I can't call in return and after they go I'll be the classic spinster. Tonight it feels like life sucks… (sorry I'm so angry) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Everyone has posted really great responses, and I agree with what has all been said. I can totally relate to what you say here. It's always been very easy for me to make friends (and of course I had a tendency to attract really mentally ill, neurotic people reminiscent of my mother and father) but I too have felt - and still feel - that sense of loneliness. Somewhere in this thread, someone said something about the loneliness coming from a fear of being vulnerable in relationships that we KO's often inevitably have. That hits the nail on the head for me. The idea of being totally myself, of putting all my cards on the table, my baggage free for someone else to see, terrifies me to my core. A big part of me feels like those parts of myself just aren't lovable, thanks to the teaching of my nada and fada. Of course, I consciously know that isn't true, but the desire to shut those parts out is still there. So, for me, a big part of combating the loneliness is learning to accept and love all those parts of myself, the good bad and ugly. My hope is that if I can truly love and accept of myself, I will be willing (with some trepidation of course) to allow someone else in. Because I know I can - and have - seen the " flaws " of others and loved them. So why can't I do that for myself, or trust that someone else would want to do the same for me? This is something I've been working on for awhile now, and I think it has an effect on the feeling of loneliness you describe. It's all a process. I wish you luck in yours. > > I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but > > Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? > > The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The loneliness is still there... > > Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. > > Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I second your thoughts! I just started a new class last night, and as I was sitting with my social anxiety, I was thinking something very similar...but I like the way you put it. We are lovable people. A lot of us were taught love came with pain, or was unpredictable - hence the barriers and self-imposed exile that we don't even realize is there. Learning to get out of your own way and when it is safe to come out to play is tough, but it can be done. Don't give up. > > > …. > > > I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). > > > > Boy I know how you feel…I'm beginning to reflect a little more these days and I'm just beginning to remember that my family never had any visitors. We moved on average every 16 months until I was 14, and over 3 different continents. So I was never really 'socialised' and after coming through that my adult life has been a mixture of my parents nearly regular annual crisis and my own personal health crises so have never been able to be there for others. (No one wants to know when beset by *constant* problems many of which aren't of my own making). > > > > Recently I tried to get out to classes and interest groups and found the same - it's demoralising. I don't bother any more either and accept it as the ways things are. But I am lonely and don't want to be seen as socially isolated. Sadly things feel worse because I never found someone to settle down with either - I've just ended a long 10 year relationship. Having started plucking out my newly found grey hairs I beginning to wonder what it's going to be like a few years down the road….Strangely my parents have me to call on in times of trouble yet I can't call in return and after they go I'll be the classic spinster. Tonight it feels like life sucks… (sorry I'm so angry) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I used to have close friends, but they where at my level or below. I used to be a very dysfunctional person with a very low self esteem. In therapy, I became less interested in these friends because I was becoming a more functional person with healthy boundaries. All these relationships deteriorated on a mutual level. Unfortunately, I haven't been successful at making friends with more healthy people. Part of the problem has been financial hardship due to the economy; it is hard to be social when you are completely broke. I am also a single parent and can't just up and leave without making arrangements of my daughter. I hate being so isolated and limited. It's just the way things are right now. Things will eventually get better. I know there is a way out of this isolation. > > > > …. > > > > I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). > > > > > > Boy I know how you feel…I'm beginning to reflect a little more these days and I'm just beginning to remember that my family never had any visitors. We moved on average every 16 months until I was 14, and over 3 different continents. So I was never really 'socialised' and after coming through that my adult life has been a mixture of my parents nearly regular annual crisis and my own personal health crises so have never been able to be there for others. (No one wants to know when beset by *constant* problems many of which aren't of my own making). > > > > > > Recently I tried to get out to classes and interest groups and found the same - it's demoralising. I don't bother any more either and accept it as the ways things are. But I am lonely and don't want to be seen as socially isolated. Sadly things feel worse because I never found someone to settle down with either - I've just ended a long 10 year relationship. Having started plucking out my newly found grey hairs I beginning to wonder what it's going to be like a few years down the road….Strangely my parents have me to call on in times of trouble yet I can't call in return and after they go I'll be the classic spinster. Tonight it feels like life sucks… (sorry I'm so angry) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I thought I was the only one like this. My friend base has shifted as well and newer friends are more healthy. It has been an adjustment, old habits are hard to break. I am 59 and I thought I would have a nice group of friends to grow old with. Ain't happening. Sometimes I feel envious when I see people with a group of friends that have been together a long time. It also hasn't helped that my job has gone away. I am an appraiser and the new laws/regulations as well as the economy have really put a damper on this business. But I have realized it is a very negative business with a high level of dysfunction. Going to functions with my peers is very unpleasant. They gripe and moan about things none of us has control over. It has also influenced my family dynamic. I have one sister, I used to be very close with and am no longer. She is lower functioning and saw me as a mother figure. She has high anxiety levels and refuses to go to counseling. She feels self help books and siblings are the answer. Sorry, no longer the family therapist/enabler. I have now gotten closer to my other sister who has always been at least at my level and often above. My brother remains in his usual position, self medicated below the radar. It is kind of like crossing a stream on stepping stones and the water level keeps changing. Overall though I do feel so much better and I have gotten better at seeing the low function folks coming. It has also helped to seek out younger friends, often they are just a lot more fun and haven't gotten into 'organ recital'. Therapy has helped enormously. I am also going back to school at the junior college. We will see where that takes me. Hang in there......Jane > > > > > …. > > > > > I haven't had a close girl friend or a work friend in years. I have joined classes & interest groups, but mostly I run into other pairs of women (and they aren't looking for a 'third' buddy). > > > > > > > > Boy I know how you feel…I'm beginning to reflect a little more these days and I'm just beginning to remember that my family never had any visitors. We moved on average every 16 months until I was 14, and over 3 different continents. So I was never really 'socialised' and after coming through that my adult life has been a mixture of my parents nearly regular annual crisis and my own personal health crises so have never been able to be there for others. (No one wants to know when beset by *constant* problems many of which aren't of my own making). > > > > > > > > Recently I tried to get out to classes and interest groups and found the same - it's demoralising. I don't bother any more either and accept it as the ways things are. But I am lonely and don't want to be seen as socially isolated. Sadly things feel worse because I never found someone to settle down with either - I've just ended a long 10 year relationship. Having started plucking out my newly found grey hairs I beginning to wonder what it's going to be like a few years down the road….Strangely my parents have me to call on in times of trouble yet I can't call in return and after they go I'll be the classic spinster. Tonight it feels like life sucks… (sorry I'm so angry) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I started a new class Thursday night. Thinking about this thread, I walked in trying to be as open and non-judgmental as possible. It helped in that the meeting was meld in a place that historically holds lots of good vibes and a wonderful energy. I wasn't there to meet anyone, I doubt I'll end up friends with anyone there. I was there to learn Mindfulness Meditation. BTW, I decided to try this to combat insomnia, PTSD and anxiety in general. So far I've made some interesting discoveries about myself. Whether I can actually establish a practice and keep it while having stressful times is yet to be revealed. I found the only judgment I had trouble silencing was the negative thoughts we always aim at ourselves: " quit slouching! " " you're shirt is twisted " " you look fat--pull your shirt and sit up straighter. " But at least I *heard* those comments in my head and realized how much negativity I aim at myself. > > > I second your thoughts! I just started a new class last night, and as I was sitting with my social anxiety, I was thinking something very similar...but I like the way you put it. > We are lovable people. > A lot of us were taught love came with pain, or was unpredictable - hence the barriers and self-imposed exile that we don't even realize is there. Learning to get out of your own way and when it is safe to come out to play is tough, but it can be done. Don't give up. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 My T and I spent about a month on changing negative self talk to affirmations. damn I'm good was one of my favs > ** > > > I started a new class Thursday night. Thinking about this thread, I walked > in trying to be as open and non-judgmental as possible. It helped in that > the meeting was meld in a place that historically holds lots of good vibes > and a wonderful energy. I wasn't there to meet anyone, I doubt I'll end up > friends with anyone there. I was there to learn Mindfulness Meditation. > > BTW, I decided to try this to combat insomnia, PTSD and anxiety in general. > So far I've made some interesting discoveries about myself. Whether I can > actually establish a practice and keep it while having stressful times is > yet to be revealed. > > I found the only judgment I had trouble silencing was the negative thoughts > we always aim at ourselves: " quit slouching! " " you're shirt is twisted " " you > look fat--pull your shirt and sit up straighter. " But at least I *heard* > those comments in my head and realized how much negativity I aim at myself. > > > > > > > > > I second your thoughts! I just started a new class last night, and as I > was sitting with my social anxiety, I was thinking something very > similar...but I like the way you put it. > > We are lovable people. > > A lot of us were taught love came with pain, or was unpredictable - hence > the barriers and self-imposed exile that we don't even realize is there. > Learning to get out of your own way and when it is safe to come out to play > is tough, but it can be done. Don't give up. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 This really struck a chord with me. I also struggle with this feeling of loneliness. I fear being alone above all else, and it makes no sense. I'm surrounded by people all the time and I still feel alone. And it's like a need to be surrounded by people to feel my own self-worth. I have a hard time being alone. I'm afraid it's fleas too, but I'm also aware it's very much part of the denigrating abuse we've all faced. Being in a situation where you are denied self-esteem, you have to search for it elsewhere. I'm so afraid all the people in my life will abandon me and after being in a situation where I almost lost the most important people in my life, I've been really struggling with this the past week. The feeling of selfishness is so confusing. I feel bad and guilty for wanting so much human contact. I have to talk to people at least an hour a day to process and I know it's emotionally draining on my small support system (which I'm afraid to expand. I don't want to be a burden on my dad, but I don't want to feel like a void with other people in my life). After years of not having my emotional needs filled, I don't know what to ask for. I want to have a close-knit group of friends so badly but I push people away and I feel like when friendships fail, it's my fault. I'm so afraid of letting people see me for everything I am, the good, the bad, the strong and the fragile. It's terrifying to be that vulnerable. I feel like I also miss out on the cues that a friendship is close. I'm not always sure when things are good and when they're not. I'm finally in a good, stable relationship, but I'm afraid of how much to let him in to my life. He knows about my past and got a taste of the craziness last weekend with my brother's ridiculous episode. He's so wonderfully sane and stable and really has been such a wonderful part of my life. Even though I know he's not going anywhere and it's been almost a year now, and he wants to marry me someday, I still have fears of him leaving me or hurting me. I know they're unfounded but it's hard to escape the feeling of the bottom always dropping out. I have very few close friendships and most of those are rather transient and from the other posts, it seems like I'm not alone. I'm terrified to live alone, and I think I partially took my RA job because I hate living in an apartment, cut off from people. How do we get past this? > > I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but > > Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? > > The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The loneliness is still there... > > Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. > > Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I just wanted to say I really hear you on this one echobabe. My head continually generates horrible thoughts which fling themselves at me, such as 'God, you're stupid, why did you say/do that.' 'Wow, you shouldn't have caught yourself in the mirror there, you look ugly today,' 'What are you getting all anxious for, no-one else is, you're a total freak.' It's taken me a long time to get a sense of the fact that these are just thoughts that are generated by my head. They don't necessarily have any meaning. Even though when I hear them my instinct is to believe them. Takes time I guess. My therapist has been using mindfulness techniques in getting me to 'sit' with my anxiety and learn to understand better how it manifests. It's taking a long time but it's starting to make sense to me. Now I feel (a little) as though when it comes on, it has less of a grip. Good luck with the course, I'm planning on doing one too as soon as I can make the time. Sara > > > > > > I second your thoughts! I just started a new class last night, and as I was sitting with my social anxiety, I was thinking something very similar...but I like the way you put it. > > We are lovable people. > > A lot of us were taught love came with pain, or was unpredictable - hence the barriers and self-imposed exile that we don't even realize is there. Learning to get out of your own way and when it is safe to come out to play is tough, but it can be done. Don't give up. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I too have experienced the " negative self-talk " behavior, much more so as a teen/young adult. I eventually figured out through reading about psychology and various self-help books, that I had internalized my nada's insanely unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of me. I was still trying to be " perfect " for her, to please her, and was very obligingly carrying my nada around in my head with me all the time ( in a manner of speaking) so I could criticize myself and beat myself up for her when she wasn't right there to do it in person. One factor that helped me develop more normalized behavior in this regard, was that I noticed that other people such as my co-workers, friends, acquaintances, etc., did not scrutinize me, nitpick at me, criticize me or seem to have me under a magnifying glass the way nada did. They just seemed to accept me the way I was, for the most part. It made me realize that nada was the only one who did that to me, made me feel like I was perpetually under examination and judged disappointingly lacking and imperfect. At first I thought, " Nada treats me like that because she loves me; these other people don't love me like nada does. " It took me a long, long time to realize that when you love someone, you don't try to tear them down and make them hate themselves for not being perfect. That is not love, not at all. Once I started living on my own and was not around my nada every day, I was able to begin to realize that. (I think that if I had allowed myself to go into therapy, these realizations would have revealed themselves to me much earlier in life, though.) The technique that has worked for me is probably the same thing as " mindfulness " . Example: earlier in my life whenever I'd make a mess by spilling something, I'd automatically curse at myself, call myself all kinds of harsh names, and that just felt normal to me. I came to realize after living on my own for a decade or two, as a more middle-aged adult, that just making a mess is NOT a big deal, to me. It just isn't. But it was to nada. Nada would totally freak out over a mess or a spill, it literally triggered her into a freaking bats**t fury... but I am not my nada. So, after I'd call myself " f**king clumsy, stupid idiot.. etc. " I would then add, afterward: " Hey, you know, its just a spill. I can have that cleaned up in two seconds. Hey, that's what paper towels are for/ that's what the broom is for. See? There, its all clean now. " Which is what my mother should have said when her children spilled something instead of terrorizing us by shrieking at us, hitting us, making us feel lower than pond scum and that she hated us for being stupid and clumsy. Or even accusing us of doing it deliberately and therefor being BAD and deserving her rage. Over a freaking spill. Over... nothing. Gradually, I was able to " erase the nada tape " of self-castigation over trivial, meaningless flaws, mistakes, and accidents and " re-record over it " a more normal response. So now, if I spill something (because yes, I AM a rather clumsy person) I automatically say " Oops! Wow, that went everywhere! Well, that's what paper towels are for! " I don't automatically flagellate myself for the small stuff any longer, for the most part. So... I no longer expect myself to be " perfect " , I guess. And I no longer *care* if my mentally ill, perfectionistic nada is upset with me or not. I know that the way she thinks and reacts to things is *abnormal.* What *I* think of me is more important to me now, I suppose. -Annie > > I just wanted to say I really hear you on this one echobabe. My head continually generates horrible thoughts which fling themselves at me, such as 'God, you're stupid, why did you say/do that.' 'Wow, you shouldn't have caught yourself in the mirror there, you look ugly today,' 'What are you getting all anxious for, no-one else is, you're a total freak.' > > It's taken me a long time to get a sense of the fact that these are just thoughts that are generated by my head. They don't necessarily have any meaning. Even though when I hear them my instinct is to believe them. Takes time I guess. > > My therapist has been using mindfulness techniques in getting me to 'sit' with my anxiety and learn to understand better how it manifests. It's taking a long time but it's starting to make sense to me. Now I feel (a little) as though when it comes on, it has less of a grip. > > Good luck with the course, I'm planning on doing one too as soon as I can make the time. > > Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Clefairy, I want to send my loves and hugs to you. I think that the need to connect with loving people is perfectly normal, esp considering what you have been through. In fact, if you want to send me private messages when you feel the need for human connection, please do. I'll do my best to respond. I went through that phase too, where my boyfriend (aka partner of 6 years) would text each other the word " hi " about every 10 to 20 min when i was under stress. My T pointed out we weren't saying " hi, " we were saying " i'm here for you. You are not alone in this. " It's beautiful, and as you get stronger you might not need it as often, but you will still need it. XOXOXO On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:57 PM, clefairy_looking_for_moonstone < clefairy_looking_for_moonstone@...> wrote: > ** > > > This really struck a chord with me. > > I also struggle with this feeling of loneliness. I fear being alone above > all else, and it makes no sense. I'm surrounded by people all the time and I > still feel alone. And it's like a need to be surrounded by people to feel my > own self-worth. I have a hard time being alone. I'm afraid it's fleas too, > but I'm also aware it's very much part of the denigrating abuse we've all > faced. Being in a situation where you are denied self-esteem, you have to > search for it elsewhere. > I'm so afraid all the people in my life will abandon me and after being in > a situation where I almost lost the most important people in my life, I've > been really struggling with this the past week. > The feeling of selfishness is so confusing. I feel bad and guilty for > wanting so much human contact. I have to talk to people at least an hour a > day to process and I know it's emotionally draining on my small support > system (which I'm afraid to expand. I don't want to be a burden on my dad, > but I don't want to feel like a void with other people in my life). After > years of not having my emotional needs filled, I don't know what to ask for. > I want to have a close-knit group of friends so badly but I push people away > and I feel like when friendships fail, it's my fault. I'm so afraid of > letting people see me for everything I am, the good, the bad, the strong and > the fragile. It's terrifying to be that vulnerable. I feel like I also miss > out on the cues that a friendship is close. I'm not always sure when things > are good and when they're not. > I'm finally in a good, stable relationship, but I'm afraid of how much to > let him in to my life. He knows about my past and got a taste of the > craziness last weekend with my brother's ridiculous episode. He's so > wonderfully sane and stable and really has been such a wonderful part of my > life. Even though I know he's not going anywhere and it's been almost a year > now, and he wants to marry me someday, I still have fears of him leaving me > or hurting me. I know they're unfounded but it's hard to escape the feeling > of the bottom always dropping out. > I have very few close friendships and most of those are rather transient > and from the other posts, it seems like I'm not alone. > I'm terrified to live alone, and I think I partially took my RA job because > I hate living in an apartment, cut off from people. > > How do we get past this? > > > > > > > I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but > > > > Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many > friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? > > > > The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't > shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " > you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for > way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out > there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The > loneliness is still there... > > > > Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Maybe this is a little bit of depression? On the other hand, we really weren't raised in a way that fosters trust in people or their reactions to us. Maybe you are waiting for the other shoe to drop, and they will then be revealed to be false friends? Or maybe at your core you don't believe you are deserving of their love and care? I've spent a lot of my life 'hiding' who I was from everyone. Believe me, I have no dramatic secrets. I am not unusual in an way except coming from a BPD home. But I believed deep down that if the world really saw ME, they would turn from me in disgust. So I didn't ask for validation, and I would deny all the praise aimed my way. I guess the quicker answer is we have many ways of keeping a buffer between ourselves and other people. A buffer put in place by us out of some fear for safety. This adaptive thinking helped us in childhood, but works against us as adults in the real world. > > I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but > > Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? > > The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The loneliness is still there... > > Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. > > Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 ((clefairy)) It sounds like you are drowning from the need for human contact, but work hard to keep that contact at arms length--just in case. If you feel you are taxing your support system, you probably are. Look for a support group (or 2!) you can talk at, a school counselor, etc. What you went through last week was huge, and I'm sure it brought up a bunch of baggage from your FOO that you've been trying to 'get over' by suppressing it. You are smart in deciding to talk it out--forgive the analogy but its like a big pimple--you have to squeeze it all out before it can heal properly. I am guessing that you set emotional walls between you and other people as a way of keeping yourself safe. All people do this, but KOs probably more than most. We can get pretty creative at times to make sure a buffer is put into place. You are going to be ok--remember that awareness is 90% of recovery. > > This really struck a chord with me. > > I also struggle with this feeling of loneliness. I fear being alone above all else, and it makes no sense. I'm surrounded by people all the time and I still feel alone. And it's like a need to be surrounded by people to feel my own self-worth. I have a hard time being alone. I'm afraid it's fleas too, but I'm also aware it's very much part of the denigrating abuse we've all faced. Being in a situation where you are denied self-esteem, you have to search for it elsewhere. > I'm so afraid all the people in my life will abandon me and after being in a situation where I almost lost the most important people in my life, I've been really struggling with this the past week. > The feeling of selfishness is so confusing. I feel bad and guilty for wanting so much human contact. I have to talk to people at least an hour a day to process and I know it's emotionally draining on my small support system (which I'm afraid to expand. I don't want to be a burden on my dad, but I don't want to feel like a void with other people in my life). After years of not having my emotional needs filled, I don't know what to ask for. I want to have a close-knit group of friends so badly but I push people away and I feel like when friendships fail, it's my fault. I'm so afraid of letting people see me for everything I am, the good, the bad, the strong and the fragile. It's terrifying to be that vulnerable. I feel like I also miss out on the cues that a friendship is close. I'm not always sure when things are good and when they're not. > I'm finally in a good, stable relationship, but I'm afraid of how much to let him in to my life. He knows about my past and got a taste of the craziness last weekend with my brother's ridiculous episode. He's so wonderfully sane and stable and really has been such a wonderful part of my life. Even though I know he's not going anywhere and it's been almost a year now, and he wants to marry me someday, I still have fears of him leaving me or hurting me. I know they're unfounded but it's hard to escape the feeling of the bottom always dropping out. > I have very few close friendships and most of those are rather transient and from the other posts, it seems like I'm not alone. > I'm terrified to live alone, and I think I partially took my RA job because I hate living in an apartment, cut off from people. > > How do we get past this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hey All, I really relate to a tonne of these posts (clefairy don't worry, you are not alone in the loneliness feeling - I get it too!) It also takes me ages to be able to be myself with someone - and then I still feel a little on edge, even with my close friends - that I have to watch what I say, and I often question myself after a conversation 'Was I too sharp?' 'Was I rude?' 'Did I upset so and so.' I guess if you've been raised by an abusive parent(s) who expects you to meet a set of 'perfect' standards that they constantly change (i.e. you CANNOT meet), and then punish you for not being able to do the impossible, questioning yourself on whether you've 'been okay' is not so unexpected... On the up side though, I had a 'progress' moment yesterday in relation to the anxiety. I'm dreadful with directions and I get lost all the time. It makes me feel stupid and hopeless and triggers my anxiety. So I got lost around my new house, I felt my anxiety rising - and noticed it was rising which is a good thing - and I could hear my voice going 'You're an idiot, only you could get lost round the corner from your house, now you're going to be late you stupid woman.' etc etc. However, as I noticed I was doing it I was able to 'self sooth' until my anxiety levels started to drop again (as recently taught by my therapist) by countering the thoughts and repeating in my head things like 'It's okay. You're not stupid. You haven't done anything wrong. Lots of people are bad at directions. It's not a big deal. So you'll be a few minutes late for your appointment. That's normal, don't worry about it.' I find the self-soothing thing really helps me. Sara > > > > I don't know if this is just fleas or legit or what...but > > > > Does anyone else still have a lot, lot of loneliness no matter how many friends you're around/have, how stable your current relationships are, etc? > > > > The same lonely I was raised with growing up is something I still can't shake. Feeling shut down by the people in your life who supposedly " love " you the most is something that's stuck with me and definitely haunted me for way too many years. I feel so selfish because there are so many people out there who care about me, but I just don't know what to do about this. The loneliness is still there... > > > > Just wondering if anyone else has felt this and what to do about it. > > > > Thanks. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Girlscout and Echobabe, I cried when I read your posts. Thank you so much for the support and sound advice. I had a long conversation with my Dad about taxing him as a support system. We've decided that really heavy issues I can ask him about, but he wants me to use my T for that (I'm starting again this week), but he wanted to make sure I knew he was there no matter what. I'm trying to branch out and use the other people in my life that I can trust and this group has also been extremely helpful. Much love and many thank you's xoxoxoxo > > > > This really struck a chord with me. > > > > I also struggle with this feeling of loneliness. I fear being alone above all else, and it makes no sense. I'm surrounded by people all the time and I still feel alone. And it's like a need to be surrounded by people to feel my own self-worth. I have a hard time being alone. I'm afraid it's fleas too, but I'm also aware it's very much part of the denigrating abuse we've all faced. Being in a situation where you are denied self-esteem, you have to search for it elsewhere. > > I'm so afraid all the people in my life will abandon me and after being in a situation where I almost lost the most important people in my life, I've been really struggling with this the past week. > > The feeling of selfishness is so confusing. I feel bad and guilty for wanting so much human contact. I have to talk to people at least an hour a day to process and I know it's emotionally draining on my small support system (which I'm afraid to expand. I don't want to be a burden on my dad, but I don't want to feel like a void with other people in my life). After years of not having my emotional needs filled, I don't know what to ask for. I want to have a close-knit group of friends so badly but I push people away and I feel like when friendships fail, it's my fault. I'm so afraid of letting people see me for everything I am, the good, the bad, the strong and the fragile. It's terrifying to be that vulnerable. I feel like I also miss out on the cues that a friendship is close. I'm not always sure when things are good and when they're not. > > I'm finally in a good, stable relationship, but I'm afraid of how much to let him in to my life. He knows about my past and got a taste of the craziness last weekend with my brother's ridiculous episode. He's so wonderfully sane and stable and really has been such a wonderful part of my life. Even though I know he's not going anywhere and it's been almost a year now, and he wants to marry me someday, I still have fears of him leaving me or hurting me. I know they're unfounded but it's hard to escape the feeling of the bottom always dropping out. > > I have very few close friendships and most of those are rather transient and from the other posts, it seems like I'm not alone. > > I'm terrified to live alone, and I think I partially took my RA job because I hate living in an apartment, cut off from people. > > > > How do we get past this? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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