Advise on how to respond to letter from Nada's therapist

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for hearing my question!

So I am 5 weeks into a 3 month NC with my Nada and Dad that we forced them into

after some fighting, guilt letters, blaming, lying, and yelling on their part

because they feel entitled to a relationship with my 2 yr old and don't treat me

or my husband with respect, and Nada is basically controlling, does the typical

waif/queen stuff.

The last 5 weeks have been the best time of my life. I don't have to worry about

the phone ringing, the skype digs, the loaded emails. It's been great!

So I received an email today from her counselor. Basically I forced her into

therapy, but I am disappointed to see that she is seeing a counselor instead of

a psychologist. She obviously just thinks she is a normal person who needs help

figuring out why her family treats her so awful...and keeps denying she has any

problems of her own! I seriously think he is in way over his head with her. He

sent me some type of email questionnaire it looks like he sends out to the

family of his clients, basically saying he is working on helping her improve her

life and relationships, and kindly asking me to list her strengths and

weaknesses....seriously???? She must have gone in there all waify and done her

'poor grandma' routine...

So I am definitely writing back and cluing him in on the situation, the lying,

the fact we think she is Borderline, the childhood emotional abuse I suffered,

her sense of entitlement that's extremely narcissistic. I was thinking that I

should ask him to mentally prepare her for the fact we plan on going LC with her

and my dad after the 3 month break is over, and let him know that my own

personal boundaries will no longer be up for negotiation with them. I was also

thinking of adding something to the effect of encouraging him to get her a

diagnosis so she can get some real therapy CBT, or DBT, and that would maybe put

her on a track to actually having a relationship with us one day, but I am not

sure how to say that without sounding condescending to him. So I guess my

question is how far should I go. Should I completely unload and risk sounding

too angry? Would that be risking my credibility?

Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior, situations she would have

trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting angry daughter? My brother,

who has a strained relationship as well doesn't want to answer, but I think it

would help give her 'counselor' some perspective and I am trying to talk my

brother into just a couple sentences so he can see the family dynamic more

clearly. He has truly given up on a relationship with them so I don't blame him

for not even caring.

But truly, if he is just a counselor, how well can he really treat her? Are

their times when counselors will send people on to Psychologist when they

realize they have serious problems and need more help? I guess the fact that I

am mulling over all this stuff means that I still care about her and have hope

for her, even though part of me doesn't want to care anymore because I get so

stressed out by it all. I guess I feel like I finally have once chance to say

something and I don't want to screw it up.

Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on their parent's

behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any advise!

Thank you also for listening.

[Guest guest]

I don't have any direct advice except ask for the counselor's qualifications and

also, I would ask him/her if the questionnaire will be anonymous or not. Will

nada get to see the questionnaire? That would not jive with me.

I am not sure, if I was in your situation, how much information I would give or

if I would respond at all. Considering that I am NC, I might actually call the

counselor and say " you are just helping my nada break boundaries I have set to

protect myself. I hope that gives you an idea of what you're dealing with... "

I think, if I were in your situation, I would only say " While I do not feel

predisposed to answer your questionnaire, as dealing with this woman has been

very painful for me--she has abused me emotionally and sometimes physically all

my life and denies it--I think you should know that both I and my therapist (as

well as other family members) suspect that she suffers from borderline

personality disorder. As much as I have sympathy for her and her situation, I

can no longer enable her to hurt me or my family; therefore, I must ask that you

do not contact me again. I am sure that, to you, she presents as a very sweet

lady, but if you know anything about her disorder, you would know that she is

very adept at manipulating people and situations to hide her disorder. Thank you

for not contacting me in the future, at all. "

As I said, if MY nada's therapist contacted me, this would be my response.

Because I am NC and wish to stay NC for as long as I want. I might change my

mind in the future, but I don't see that happening anytime soon at all.

You are in a different place with your nada than me, so you might temper your

response differently. I think, well, I wouldn't give out details or a lot of

information. I think you could definitely say that you have experienced a lot of

emotional and physical abuse at her hands, which she denies or downplays, and

that you suspect BPD. That's about all I would say. You don't know how this

information will be used (or even if it came from a counselor?).

I hope I've been helpful a little. That's a real hard one, I must say.

>

> Hey everyone, thank you so much for hearing my question!

>

> So I am 5 weeks into a 3 month NC with my Nada and Dad that we forced them

into after some fighting, guilt letters, blaming, lying, and yelling on their

part because they feel entitled to a relationship with my 2 yr old and don't

treat me or my husband with respect, and Nada is basically controlling, does the

typical waif/queen stuff.

> The last 5 weeks have been the best time of my life. I don't have to worry

about the phone ringing, the skype digs, the loaded emails. It's been great!

> So I received an email today from her counselor. Basically I forced her into

therapy, but I am disappointed to see that she is seeing a counselor instead of

a psychologist. She obviously just thinks she is a normal person who needs help

figuring out why her family treats her so awful...and keeps denying she has any

problems of her own! I seriously think he is in way over his head with her. He

sent me some type of email questionnaire it looks like he sends out to the

family of his clients, basically saying he is working on helping her improve her

life and relationships, and kindly asking me to list her strengths and

weaknesses....seriously???? She must have gone in there all waify and done her

'poor grandma' routine...

>

> So I am definitely writing back and cluing him in on the situation, the lying,

the fact we think she is Borderline, the childhood emotional abuse I suffered,

her sense of entitlement that's extremely narcissistic. I was thinking that I

should ask him to mentally prepare her for the fact we plan on going LC with her

and my dad after the 3 month break is over, and let him know that my own

personal boundaries will no longer be up for negotiation with them. I was also

thinking of adding something to the effect of encouraging him to get her a

diagnosis so she can get some real therapy CBT, or DBT, and that would maybe put

her on a track to actually having a relationship with us one day, but I am not

sure how to say that without sounding condescending to him. So I guess my

question is how far should I go. Should I completely unload and risk sounding

too angry? Would that be risking my credibility?

> Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior, situations she would

have trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting angry daughter? My

brother, who has a strained relationship as well doesn't want to answer, but I

think it would help give her 'counselor' some perspective and I am trying to

talk my brother into just a couple sentences so he can see the family dynamic

more clearly. He has truly given up on a relationship with them so I don't blame

him for not even caring.

>

> But truly, if he is just a counselor, how well can he really treat her? Are

their times when counselors will send people on to Psychologist when they

realize they have serious problems and need more help? I guess the fact that I

am mulling over all this stuff means that I still care about her and have hope

for her, even though part of me doesn't want to care anymore because I get so

stressed out by it all. I guess I feel like I finally have once chance to say

something and I don't want to screw it up.

>

> Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on their

parent's behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any advise!

>

> Thank you also for listening.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I forgot to mention that she asked my permission for her therapist to

contact me as it pertains to her therapy, and i said yes.

He seems to be legitimate, and his email address matches the one listed on his

website. He has a Masters, and has LPC, NCC. I would prefer a Psychologist with

a PhD, I personally don't think this guy is qualified to treat her.

I am pretty sure my life would be better with NC, but I'm not quite there yet. I

guess this is my one last shot with her. I guess I still hold out hope, I know I

should just get off the crazy train and leave crazy town for good, but it's hard

to get that voice out of my head saying 'BUT she is you mom' It just sucks:-(

>

> I don't have any direct advice except ask for the counselor's qualifications

and also, I would ask him/her if the questionnaire will be anonymous or not.

Will nada get to see the questionnaire? That would not jive with me.

>

> I am not sure, if I was in your situation, how much information I would give

or if I would respond at all. Considering that I am NC, I might actually call

the counselor and say " you are just helping my nada break boundaries I have set

to protect myself. I hope that gives you an idea of what you're dealing with... "

>

> I think, if I were in your situation, I would only say " While I do not feel

predisposed to answer your questionnaire, as dealing with this woman has been

very painful for me--she has abused me emotionally and sometimes physically all

my life and denies it--I think you should know that both I and my therapist (as

well as other family members) suspect that she suffers from borderline

personality disorder. As much as I have sympathy for her and her situation, I

can no longer enable her to hurt me or my family; therefore, I must ask that you

do not contact me again. I am sure that, to you, she presents as a very sweet

lady, but if you know anything about her disorder, you would know that she is

very adept at manipulating people and situations to hide her disorder. Thank you

for not contacting me in the future, at all. "

>

> As I said, if MY nada's therapist contacted me, this would be my response.

Because I am NC and wish to stay NC for as long as I want. I might change my

mind in the future, but I don't see that happening anytime soon at all.

>

> You are in a different place with your nada than me, so you might temper your

response differently. I think, well, I wouldn't give out details or a lot of

information. I think you could definitely say that you have experienced a lot of

emotional and physical abuse at her hands, which she denies or downplays, and

that you suspect BPD. That's about all I would say. You don't know how this

information will be used (or even if it came from a counselor?).

>

> I hope I've been helpful a little. That's a real hard one, I must say.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One idea that occurs to me is: suggest that your nada's counselor speak with

your own therapist, if you have one, and do a professional consult with each

other. That way your therapist could clue in her counselor about the extent of

nada's mental disorder without you having to put yourself in " jeopardy " at all.

If you don't have a therapist or yours isn't available or something, maybe

write back that you are willing to have a short phone consultation with nada's

counselor, privately, and give him or her your phone number.

I'm not sure why, but me personally, I dislike the idea of writing a letter

detailing why I am in no contact. I guess I distrust my nada, or did, before

she developed Alzheimer's. I'd have been afraid that she could somehow figure

out a way to use my letter against me.

But that's just me.

-Annie

>

> Hey everyone, thank you so much for hearing my question!

>

> So I am 5 weeks into a 3 month NC with my Nada and Dad that we forced them

into after some fighting, guilt letters, blaming, lying, and yelling on their

part because they feel entitled to a relationship with my 2 yr old and don't

treat me or my husband with respect, and Nada is basically controlling, does the

typical waif/queen stuff.

> The last 5 weeks have been the best time of my life. I don't have to worry

about the phone ringing, the skype digs, the loaded emails. It's been great!

> So I received an email today from her counselor. Basically I forced her into

therapy, but I am disappointed to see that she is seeing a counselor instead of

a psychologist. She obviously just thinks she is a normal person who needs help

figuring out why her family treats her so awful...and keeps denying she has any

problems of her own! I seriously think he is in way over his head with her. He

sent me some type of email questionnaire it looks like he sends out to the

family of his clients, basically saying he is working on helping her improve her

life and relationships, and kindly asking me to list her strengths and

weaknesses....seriously???? She must have gone in there all waify and done her

'poor grandma' routine...

>

> So I am definitely writing back and cluing him in on the situation, the lying,

the fact we think she is Borderline, the childhood emotional abuse I suffered,

her sense of entitlement that's extremely narcissistic. I was thinking that I

should ask him to mentally prepare her for the fact we plan on going LC with her

and my dad after the 3 month break is over, and let him know that my own

personal boundaries will no longer be up for negotiation with them. I was also

thinking of adding something to the effect of encouraging him to get her a

diagnosis so she can get some real therapy CBT, or DBT, and that would maybe put

her on a track to actually having a relationship with us one day, but I am not

sure how to say that without sounding condescending to him. So I guess my

question is how far should I go. Should I completely unload and risk sounding

too angry? Would that be risking my credibility?

> Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior, situations she would

have trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting angry daughter? My

brother, who has a strained relationship as well doesn't want to answer, but I

think it would help give her 'counselor' some perspective and I am trying to

talk my brother into just a couple sentences so he can see the family dynamic

more clearly. He has truly given up on a relationship with them so I don't blame

him for not even caring.

>

> But truly, if he is just a counselor, how well can he really treat her? Are

their times when counselors will send people on to Psychologist when they

realize they have serious problems and need more help? I guess the fact that I

am mulling over all this stuff means that I still care about her and have hope

for her, even though part of me doesn't want to care anymore because I get so

stressed out by it all. I guess I feel like I finally have once chance to say

something and I don't want to screw it up.

>

> Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on their

parent's behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any advise!

>

> Thank you also for listening.

>

[Guest guest]

If would suggest you do a bit of research on the difference in a

counselor and a psychologist. And then ask some pertinant questions of

her counselor. A licensed professional counselor is a highly trained

and competent mental health professional, with at least an MA in

Counseling, and they must pass the LPC exam and work supervised for a

year.

So , before you get that sinking feeling that her T is an incompetent

pawn of nada, which is possible, of course, check out what he or she is.

You may be pleasantly surprised. I have seen both a psychologist and an

LPC, and currently my T is an LPC and I am very pleased her.

But the fact that the counselor is contacting the family and getting

more information, rather than simply taking her act, is, to me, a good

sign.

As far as improving her life and relationships, well, isnt that

precisely what we would hope a nada would do in therapy? Sure, she may

game him and resist, and make no headway, but it is a chance. If you

forced her into therapy, which is bullshit, no one forces a BP to do a

damn thing, but if you did, Bravo! Hooray for you.

Fill out the questionare. I would of course include with my reply your

conclusion that your mom is BP, and reference SWOE or other texts you

have read on the matter. If she is, and he doesnt see it yet, trust me,

he will eventually. Most of my counselor friends restrict the number of

BP pts they will see because they are such a drain.

I would give him permission to speak to your T, if you have one, and let

him know you are encouraged she is seeking help, and hope he can help

her. I would not change your boundaries about her contact with you,

your husband, or your child, unless there is real change in her

behavior.

I would avoid telling him your future plans of LC, but instead just let

him know that you will keep relational boundaries for your own and your

family s safety and good mental health.

Boundaries are usually NOT negotiable. But if your boundaries define

acceptable and reasonable behaviours for her in order to have contact

and relationships with you, that may give them a goal to work toward.

Will she come to change and respect them? Well, who knows, but you are

quite within your rights to establish them.

I was also thinking of adding something to the effect of encouraging him

to get her a diagnosis so she can get some real therapy CBT, or DBT, and

that would maybe put her on a track to actually having a relationship

with us one day, but I am not sure how to say that without sounding

condescending to him.

Absolutely do NOT do this. It would be like telling a Dr I think Mom

has Lupus, so I need you to diagnose it so we can go to a real Dr and

get her treated! You can certainly state your observations and

conclusion that she is BP, and if the T is with it he will pick up on

it soon as well. If he is able to treat her and get progress, great.

If he concludes that he cannot, he may refer her. But the T, and of

COURSE, Nada , would see that as interference in the extreme. Which it

would be. It is fine for you to say, here are my boundaries, and if you

heal to where we can have a healty relationship, wonderful. But you

will have no luck trying to force a plan of action on her, and a T will

simply say, thanks for your input, but I ll have to make my own

assessment. And frankly, before you conclude that she cannot get real

therapy from him, again, refer to what I said above. Find out what sort

of counselor he is. If this guy is an LPC, she may be in precisely the

place she needs to be. She is, at least, better off there than she was

a month ago.

So I guess my question is how far should I go. Should I completely

unload and risk sounding too angry? Would that be risking my

credibility?

> Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior, situations she

would have trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting angry

daughter? My brother, who has a strained relationship as well doesn't

want to answer, but I think it would help give her 'counselor' some

perspective and I am trying to talk my brother into just a couple

sentences so he can see the family dynamic more clearly. He has truly

given up on a relationship with them so I don't blame him for not even

caring.

I think the NC for 3 months gives him a pretty good idea you are angry.

I would certainly give him detailed examples of her behaviors, but you

must understand their is nothing she cannot or will not deny, or paint

in a different light. Remember gaslighting? She probably remembers

these things differently from reality already. But that is fine, seeing

her distorted views of reality will help with his diagnosis. Your

brothers input would be helpful to give a broader picture, but he may

not do so unless he sees some progress.

>

> But truly, if he is just a counselor, how well can he really treat

her? Are their times when counselors will send people on to Psychologist

when they realize they have serious problems and need more help? I guess

the fact that I am mulling over all this stuff means that I still care

about her and have hope for her, even though part of me doesn't want to

care anymore because I get so stressed out by it all. I guess I feel

like I finally have once chance to say something and I don't want to

screw it up.

Again, I urge you to find out what sort of counselor he is. You can

probably look him up in the phone book and find out, or call his office

and ask his credentials. Then do a bit of research. The fact that you

say, " just a counselor " , tells me you could benefit from a bit more

knowledge about the types of mental health professionals. He may be a

total boob. But find out before you despair of his abilities.

And of course you care! This is your mother, and like all of us you d

love to have a normal one, and have a relationship with her. We limit

that not because we dont care, but because their disorder makes it,

painfully, impossible.

>

> Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on

their parent's behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any

advise!

>

> Thank you also for listening.

>

[Guest guest]

Did not read down this far before the previous answer. If this is a

graduate counselor, who has obtained Licensed Professional Counselor and

National Certified Counslor certifications, he is highly trained and

competent, and cares enough to do the work to get certified. As I said

in my previous post, I have seen both Phd psychologists, and LPC s, and

I have great trust in the abilities of my current T, who is an LPC.

It is a GREAT thing for him to have permission to contact you in re to

her treatment. That gives him permission to have a conversation and

hear you out, and use it in her treatment. She may need more, a

psychiatrist for example, to prescribe meds, or she may required

hospitalization. But the LPC can refer her to all of that. Again, in

my opinion, you can feel quite comfortable with her starting out, at

least, in psychotherapy from an LPC.

Doug

> >

> > I don't have any direct advice except ask for the counselor's

qualifications and also, I would ask him/her if the questionnaire will

be anonymous or not. Will nada get to see the questionnaire? That would

not jive with me.

> >

> > I am not sure, if I was in your situation, how much information I

would give or if I would respond at all. Considering that I am NC, I

might actually call the counselor and say " you are just helping my nada

break boundaries I have set to protect myself. I hope that gives you an

idea of what you're dealing with... "

> >

> > I think, if I were in your situation, I would only say " While I do

not feel predisposed to answer your questionnaire, as dealing with this

woman has been very painful for me--she has abused me emotionally and

sometimes physically all my life and denies it--I think you should know

that both I and my therapist (as well as other family members) suspect

that she suffers from borderline personality disorder. As much as I have

sympathy for her and her situation, I can no longer enable her to hurt

me or my family; therefore, I must ask that you do not contact me again.

I am sure that, to you, she presents as a very sweet lady, but if you

know anything about her disorder, you would know that she is very adept

at manipulating people and situations to hide her disorder. Thank you

for not contacting me in the future, at all. "

> >

> > As I said, if MY nada's therapist contacted me, this would be my

response. Because I am NC and wish to stay NC for as long as I want. I

might change my mind in the future, but I don't see that happening

anytime soon at all.

> >

> > You are in a different place with your nada than me, so you might

temper your response differently. I think, well, I wouldn't give out

details or a lot of information. I think you could definitely say that

you have experienced a lot of emotional and physical abuse at her hands,

which she denies or downplays, and that you suspect BPD. That's about

all I would say. You don't know how this information will be used (or

even if it came from a counselor?).

> >

> > I hope I've been helpful a little. That's a real hard one, I must

say.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, If this is a counselor with little clinical training, he or she likely

has negative attitudes about BPD diagnosis. Many counselors without clinical

training will use a " one size fits all " approach, thinking that everyone just

needs basic CBT. They often do no believe in BPD or any of the other " clinical "

conditions that a clinically trained therapist would deal with. They are not

trained to treat specific problems with a " treatment plan " that clearly defines

the problems and the plan to remedy them.

Clinical training includes a systematic approach to mental health issues. A

person with such training will have proof of such training. A good therapist

will have many certificates for many different approaches to many different

problems. They do not have to have a Ph.D. to be good, but in my experience, a

good therapist without a Ph.D., will have many letters after their name on their

business cards.

Before you waste any time with this counselor, call him or her and inquire as to

his training. If he is not clinically trained, don't waste your time. Hang up

the phone and forget about him or her, because they can not help you mother no

matter how much information you give them. If the counselor does have clinical

training, I would suggest making an appointment with the counselor, face to

face. This will give the therapist a much richer idea of what he or she is

getting into.

Don't try to tell the therapist what your mother needs; that is his or her job

to worry about. Just tell him about your mothers behaviors and your feelings

about those behaviors.

>

....Should I completely unload and risk sounding too angry? Would that be risking

my credibility? Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior, situations

she would have trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting angry

daughter?...

....I guess I feel like I finally have once chance to say something and I don't

want to screw it up...

>

> Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on their

parent's behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any advise!

>

> Thank you also for listening.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much everyone for all your advise. I guess I have a bad attitude

because my mom has seen counselors in the past and not gotten any help. But I

Definitely don't want to come across disrespectful or forceful with my opinion.

I am going to do some more research and talk to my therapist about it. Thank you

thank you thank you!!!

> >

> ...Should I completely unload and risk sounding too angry? Would that be

risking my credibility? Maybe I should include some examples of her behavior,

situations she would have trouble denying so i don't just sound like a ranting

angry daughter?...

>

> ...I guess I feel like I finally have once chance to say something and I don't

want to screw it up...

> >

> > Has anyone out there had an opportunity to clue in a therapist on their

parent's behavior? Has it ever even helped? I would appreciate any advise!

> >

> > Thank you also for listening.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That is understandable. Nadas, including my own, often waste the time

of many good therapists. It is often not that the therapist is not

competent, but that BP s are very resistant to treatment.

>

> Thank you so much everyone for all your advise. I guess I have a bad

attitude because my mom has seen counselors in the past and not gotten

any help. But I Definitely don't want to come across disrespectful or

forceful with my opinion. I am going to do some more research and talk

to my therapist about it. Thank you thank you thank you!!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, resistant and also Nada has the 'poor grandma' routine down to a tee, tears

and all. *sigh*

> >

> > Thank you so much everyone for all your advise. I guess I have a bad

> attitude because my mom has seen counselors in the past and not gotten

> any help. But I Definitely don't want to come across disrespectful or

> forceful with my opinion. I am going to do some more research and talk

> to my therapist about it. Thank you thank you thank you!!!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for all your advise, I took it all into consideration.

After much thinking, I realized that I was taking out the anger I have for my

mom's past therapist with my judgment of this one. He may be a compassionate

caring man with the capacity to help her, and I was just angry. And it's truly

not all his fault anyways if he can't see past her routine, she IS manipulative

and VERY convincing.

(Lately I've just been in a very angry place, I realize that my anger keeps me

safe from her, when I get soft and let her back in she hurts me, but if I stay

angry, it's safe, hence, too much anger, anyways...)

So anyways, I decided to keep the letter short.

Basically I said that we believe she is BPD, and that I wasn't comfortable

discussing past abuse or current issues through email, and if he wanted to hear

my side of the story then I would either talk to him on the phone or have my

therapist contact him. Then I reiterated that we were no contact and I would

continue my boundaries. The end.

That way I can scope out if he 'gets it' in advance before I regurgitate

sensitive material, with the support of my therapist.

Thanks again, everyone.

I will let you know how it goes...

>

> Yes, resistant and also Nada has the 'poor grandma' routine down to a tee,

tears and all. *sigh*

>