Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

[Guest guest]

Note: I really agree with this. The pain *feels* external but the

actual cause is internal.

>

> I had external pain and PT helped me a ton! I love it.

> Melinda

>

[Guest guest]

<Note: I really agree with this.

The pain *feels* external but the actual cause is internal.>

No hon, I don't mean to disagree and it's not just you saying that so it's certainly not personal, *smile* but the actual cause is NOT always internal at all.

Believe me I 'knew' without a doubt that 'all' of my pain was external and in the tissue itself. It wasn't from any radiating pain, and no one will ever convince 'me' of that. Not saying PT or surgery isn't wonderful for some of you of course not and we can see how it's helped in many cases, but there are those and we've seen them here, who wished they'd never done it as well, that turned out badly so we need to keep a balanced view here.

But please keep in mind it can be other things too, even diet as Arline will often suggest, or one of the worst offenders is birth control.*sigh* (w. 50% of the women in several studies on them having V pain!!)

But It's like you know the difference if you were to have a cut, say on your arm, you know without a doubt it's on the surface of the skin... as opposed to a bruise that goes deeper into you if you were to press on it and go 'Ouch* and there are likely to be other symptoms that go along with it to indicate a deeper problem.

So I definitely don't want our members to assume that PT or deep tissue massage, or surgery, is the 'only' answer. (If anything surgery should be the last resort and no doubt many physicians will say the same, if they start out with offering that, I personally would run until I've exhausted all other avenues.

My goodness no, It's just 'one' suggested treatment that does help many of course and for that I'm truly so greatful. And hearing of some of the wonderful reports here is great, But if you've tried everything else 'first' and nothing has helped then 'I' might consider it but I'd certainly try other options before surgery at least.

So for ''me'' the answer was getting that tissue good & healthy and giving it back it's tone, and most of all it's elasticity and stretch so that it doesn't tear or rip or have those excruciating fissures making sex so painful. *ouch* It's a visable thing you can literally see with your eyes, and you 'know' it's tissue damage (might take a strong flashlight, magnifying glass & mirror to see it, but you can)

And for 'me' of course it was the use of the two hormone creams, the (E) Estrace (estradiol estrogen) and the topical testosterone creams (T) that did it. The skin (esp. the genital tissue) lives & thrives and is nourished by E.

It was a long slow process to bring that skin back to good health so it's certainly not a fast fix, just as it takes time for a black fingernail to grow out, it takes time, patience & persistence to renew that genital tissue, but it certainly worked on me after 10 long nightmare years of terrible pain.

I'd tried about 98% of everything you'll read out there (but no, I didn't try PT, convinced it was the skin that was damaged) and I found nothing else that helped me (some were bandaid fixes & some made me much worse) and believe me I was close to saying 'cut the dang thing off'... but TG I didn't and was able to come back as have many others. Plus even with surgery or PT I've no doubt esp. using the estrogen is an added benefit to be used in conjunction with that. (Even in Dr. J. Willems paper where women scheduled for V surgery cancelled it after using it they had such a benefit)

I'm still just so sorry I've lost so much with that computer crash... (arrrrrghhh every day I weep about that) and I hope I can still find it but there was a very large group of women (maybe with Solomon?) and I had all the charts and graphs where they were questioned as to what helped the most with their V pain.... and their own protocol of course came in first (biofeedback & something else I forget) but the 2nd most beneficial by far was using the Estrogen creams. *sigh*

Just my $.02 two cents worth. *clink*clink*

Hugs to all, and to whatever works! Dee

PS; To ? I'm so sorry I don't know you or your full story (nice to meet you) but I loved your message about stroking your wifes hair and wishing you and her the best.

[Guest guest]

It would be very interesting Dee, for you to get an eval from an excellent PT. Have you ever tried skin rolling on yourself? Your thighs or stomach?

Re: Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

<Note: I really agree with this.

The pain *feels* external but the actual cause is internal.>

No hon, I don't mean to disagree and it's not just you saying that so it's certainly not personal, *smile* but the actual cause is NOT always internal at all.

Believe me I 'knew' without a doubt that 'all' of my pain was external and in the tissue itself. It wasn't from any radiating pain, and no one will ever convince 'me' of that. Not saying PT or surgery isn't wonderful for some of you of course not and we can see how it's helped in many cases, but there are those and we've seen them here, who wished they'd never done it as well, that turned out badly so we need to keep a balanced view here.

But please keep in mind it can be other things too, even diet as Arline will often suggest, or one of the worst offenders is birth control.*sigh* (w. 50% of the women in several studies on them having V pain!!)

But It's like you know the difference if you were to have a cut, say on your arm, you know without a doubt it's on the surface of the skin... as opposed to a bruise that goes deeper into you if you were to press on it and go 'Ouch* and there are likely to be other symptoms that go along with it to indicate a deeper problem.

So I definitely don't want our members to assume that PT or deep tissue massage, or surgery, is the 'only' answer. (If anything surgery should be the last resort and no doubt many physicians will say the same, if they start out with offering that, I personally would run until I've exhausted all other avenues.

My goodness no, It's just 'one' suggested treatment that does help many of course and for that I'm truly so greatful. And hearing of some of the wonderful reports here is great, But if you've tried everything else 'first' and nothing has helped then 'I' might consider it but I'd certainly try other options before surgery at least.

So for ''me'' the answer was getting that tissue good & healthy and giving it back it's tone, and most of all it's elasticity and stretch so that it doesn't tear or rip or have those excruciating fissures making sex so painful. *ouch* It's a visable thing you can literally see with your eyes, and you 'know' it's tissue damage (might take a strong flashlight, magnifying glass & mirror to see it, but you can)

And for 'me' of course it was the use of the two hormone creams, the (E) Estrace (estradiol estrogen) and the topical testosterone creams (T) that did it. The skin (esp. the genital tissue) lives & thrives and is nourished by E.

It was a long slow process to bring that skin back to good health so it's certainly not a fast fix, just as it takes time for a black fingernail to grow out, it takes time, patience & persistence to renew that genital tissue, but it certainly worked on me after 10 long nightmare years of terrible pain.

I'd tried about 98% of everything you'll read out there (but no, I didn't try PT, convinced it was the skin that was damaged) and I found nothing else that helped me (some were bandaid fixes & some made me much worse) and believe me I was close to saying 'cut the dang thing off'... but TG I didn't and was able to come back as have many others. Plus even with surgery or PT I've no doubt esp. using the estrogen is an added benefit to be used in conjunction with that. (Even in Dr. J. Willems paper where women scheduled for V surgery cancelled it after using it they had such a benefit)

I'm still just so sorry I've lost so much with that computer crash... (arrrrrghhh every day I weep about that) and I hope I can still find it but there was a very large group of women (maybe with Solomon?) and I had all the charts and graphs where they were questioned as to what helped the most with their V pain.... and their own protocol of course came in first (biofeedback & something else I forget) but the 2nd most beneficial by far was using the Estrogen creams. *sigh*

Just my $.02 two cents worth. *clink*clink*

Hugs to all, and to whatever works! Dee

PS; To ? I'm so sorry I don't know you or your full story (nice to meet you) but I loved your message about stroking your wifes hair and wishing you and her the best.

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Oh hon....

You are sooooo sweet, but I had my pain for 10 long horrible years and have been well 'this month in fact' for a 9 full ''years''....(yes I know the days) *smile* and as long as I do my minimal maintence of once or twice a week of the E & T (estrace & testosterone) to keep me well and to feed and nourish that genital skin, I've had no problems at all

(Even got married a couple of years ago & the sex is as phenomenal as ever) *wink* with lots of lost time to make up for being I had to be celebate with the pain for the last 3 yrs of those 10. arghhh .... and if you ever saw the worst picture of mangled mess it was me, today I'm fine. But I SO much appreciate your thoughts hon that is really just so kind of you.

Luv ya hon

Dee ~

PS.... I did try that rolling on my tummy after I saw those photos from nne, *smile* (and also just read Chelles report (thank YOU hon SO much that was great) and of course I can see how it would work out knots or whatnot... and be beneficial for pelvic floor dysfunctions too.. but like I said I was absolutely sure that wasn't 'my' problem.. at least down there, plus all of those articles suggest other symptoms that go along with it before a firm diagnosis can be made and I didn't have any of those...

I just had that horrible burning, searing, tearing, ripping, 'crotch'. LOL

Re: Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

<Note: I really agree with this.

The pain *feels* external but the actual cause is internal.>

No hon, I don't mean to disagree and it's not just you saying that so it's certainly not personal, *smile* but the actual cause is NOT always internal at all.

Believe me I 'knew' without a doubt that 'all' of my pain was external and in the tissue itself. It wasn't from any radiating pain, and no one will ever convince 'me' of that. Not saying PT or surgery isn't wonderful for some of you of course not and we can see how it's helped in many cases, but there are those and we've seen them here, who wished they'd never done it as well, that turned out badly so we need to keep a balanced view here.

But please keep in mind it can be other things too, even diet as Arline will often suggest, or one of the worst offenders is birth control.*sigh* (w. 50% of the women in several studies on them having V pain!!)

But It's like you know the difference if you were to have a cut, say on your arm, you know without a doubt it's on the surface of the skin... as opposed to a bruise that goes deeper into you if you were to press on it and go 'Ouch* and there are likely to be other symptoms that go along with it to indicate a deeper problem.

So I definitely don't want our members to assume that PT or deep tissue massage, or surgery, is the 'only' answer. (If anything surgery should be the last resort and no doubt many physicians will say the same, if they start out with offering that, I personally would run until I've exhausted all other avenues.

My goodness no, It's just 'one' suggested treatment that does help many of course and for that I'm truly so greatful. And hearing of some of the wonderful reports here is great, But if you've tried everything else 'first' and nothing has helped then 'I' might consider it but I'd certainly try other options before surgery at least.

So for ''me'' the answer was getting that tissue good & healthy and giving it back it's tone, and most of all it's elasticity and stretch so that it doesn't tear or rip or have those excruciating fissures making sex so painful. *ouch* It's a visable thing you can literally see with your eyes, and you 'know' it's tissue damage (might take a strong flashlight, magnifying glass & mirror to see it, but you can)

And for 'me' of course it was the use of the two hormone creams, the (E) Estrace (estradiol estrogen) and the topical testosterone creams (T) that did it. The skin (esp. the genital tissue) lives & thrives and is nourished by E.

It was a long slow process to bring that skin back to good health so it's certainly not a fast fix, just as it takes time for a black fingernail to grow out, it takes time, patience & persistence to renew that genital tissue, but it certainly worked on me after 10 long nightmare years of terrible pain.

I'd tried about 98% of everything you'll read out there (but no, I didn't try PT, convinced it was the skin that was damaged) and I found nothing else that helped me (some were bandaid fixes & some made me much worse) and believe me I was close to saying 'cut the dang thing off'... but TG I didn't and was able to come back as have many others. Plus even with surgery or PT I've no doubt esp. using the estrogen is an added benefit to be used in conjunction with that. (Even in Dr. J. Willems paper where women scheduled for V surgery cancelled it after using it they had such a benefit)

I'm still just so sorry I've lost so much with that computer crash... (arrrrrghhh every day I weep about that) and I hope I can still find it but there was a very large group of women (maybe with Solomon?) and I had all the charts and graphs where they were questioned as to what helped the most with their V pain.... and their own protocol of course came in first (biofeedback & something else I forget) but the 2nd most beneficial by far was using the Estrogen creams. *sigh*

Just my $.02 two cents worth. *clink*clink*

Hugs to all, and to whatever works! Dee

PS; To ? I'm so sorry I don't know you or your full story (nice to meet you) but I loved your message about stroking your wifes hair and wishing you and her the best.

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Dee, I think you are a wonder woman how you were cured, but I

have been on Estrogen cream for almost two years, and except for keeping all

the tissues looking nice, it did nothing for my pain. And I am glad you

mentioned about surgery being the last resort, because it is. All the doctors

tell you to do everything else first – and Chelle is a good example. She has

done everything, gone everywhere, seen everyone. She has done it all and is

still trying. She doesn’t want surgery, and she is doing her best to prevent it

by still looking at her options. I don’t ever tell anyone to have surgery, PT, acupuncture,

etc., or anything. Try any or all, what works for one, doesn’t work for another

and etc. We have to be open minded about treatments and do what is best for

ourselves.

nne

From:

VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On

Behalf Of Dee Troll

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:51 PM

To: VulvarDisorders

Subject: Re: Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

<Note: I really agree with

this.

The pain *feels* external but

the actual cause is internal.>

No hon, I don't mean to disagree and it's not just you

saying that so it's certainly not personal, *smile* but the actual

cause is NOT always internal at all.

Believe me I 'knew' without a doubt that 'all' of my pain

was external and in the tissue itself. It wasn't from any radiating pain,

and no one will ever convince 'me' of that. Not saying PT or surgery

isn't wonderful for some of you of course not and we can see how it's

helped in many cases, but there are those and we've seen them here, who wished

they'd never done it as well, that turned out badly so we need to keep a

balanced view here.

But please keep in mind it can be other things too,

even diet as Arline will often suggest, or one of the worst offenders is

birth control.*sigh* (w. 50% of the women in several studies on them having V

pain!!)

But It's like you know the difference if you were to have a

cut, say on your arm, you know without a doubt it's on the surface of the

skin... as opposed to a bruise that goes deeper into you if you were

to press on it and go 'Ouch* and there are likely to be other

symptoms that go along with it to indicate a deeper problem.

So I definitely don't want our members to assume that PT or

deep tissue massage, or surgery, is the 'only' answer. (If anything

surgery should be the last resort and no doubt many physicians will say the

same, if they start out with offering that, I personally would

run until I've exhausted all other avenues.

My goodness no, It's just 'one' suggested treatment that

does help many of course and for that I'm truly so greatful. And

hearing of some of the wonderful reports here is great, But if you've

tried everything else 'first' and nothing has helped then 'I' might consider it

but I'd certainly try other options before surgery at least.

So for ''me'' the answer was getting that tissue good &

healthy and giving it back it's tone, and most of all it's elasticity and

stretch so that it doesn't tear or rip or have those excruciating

fissures making sex so painful. *ouch* It's a visable thing you can literally

see with your eyes, and you 'know' it's tissue damage (might take a strong

flashlight, magnifying glass & mirror to see it, but you can)

And for 'me' of course it was the use of the two hormone

creams, the (E) Estrace (estradiol estrogen) and the topical testosterone creams

(T) that did it. The skin (esp. the genital tissue) lives

& thrives and is nourished by E.

It was a long slow process to bring that skin back

to good health so it's certainly not a fast fix, just as it takes

time for a black fingernail to grow out, it takes time, patience &

persistence to renew that genital tissue, but it certainly worked on me

after 10 long nightmare years of terrible pain.

I'd tried about 98% of everything you'll read out there (but

no, I didn't try PT, convinced it was the skin that was damaged)

and I found nothing else that helped me (some were bandaid

fixes & some made me much worse) and believe me I was close to saying

'cut the dang thing off'... but TG I didn't and was able to come back as have

many others. Plus even with surgery or PT I've no doubt esp. using the

estrogen is an added benefit to be used in conjunction with that.

(Even in Dr. J. Willems paper where women scheduled for V surgery

cancelled it after using it they had such a benefit)

I'm still just so sorry I've lost so much with that computer

crash... (arrrrrghhh every day I weep about that) and I hope I can

still find it but there was a very large group of women (maybe with Solomon?)

and I had all the charts and graphs where they were questioned as to what

helped the most with their V pain.... and their own protocol of course came in

first (biofeedback & something else I forget) but the 2nd most beneficial

by far was using the Estrogen creams. *sigh*

Just my $.02 two cents worth. *clink*clink*

Hugs to all, and to whatever works!

Dee

PS; To ? I'm so sorry I don't know you or

your full story (nice to meet you) but I loved your message about

stroking your wifes hair and wishing you and her the best.

[Guest guest]

Absolutely agree with you nne.

About doing what's best for ourselves...'ain't' no doubt about that.

And I've no doubt that anyone who choses surgery has thought long and hard before choosing that option & more than likely has tried all other avenues first just like you hon, and it's more than obvious that your problems were certainly much deeper than simply surface tissue damage with all you've been through, my goodness, and of course the topical estrogen isn't going to work for everyone, *how I wish*, unfortunately ''nothing'' works for everyone, doggonit anyway, but thank goodness there is/was that surgical option for you.

I know Chelle too has suffered for a long time as well and it just breaks my heart for her and others in such a state, though she's certainly come a long way from when she first joined, thank goodness and believe me I know how the PT and the E has been of great benefit for her, but it's not quite the goal line yet either, and I hope some day she's there with a winning touchdown. : )

I would wish from the bottom of my heart that we all find 'our' key to wellness and no doubt it'll be different for each. I've sent many things on that I myself might not necessarily use or do, but that doesn't mean it might not be effective for someone else that's certainly all I meant about keeping balanced and not to focus on one thing only. (and believe me I'm not saying you did at all hon) ... I was just speaking in generalities.

Just as surgery or PT or the E & T, or diet, or guai, or antidepressants/antiseizure meds, acupunture, biofeedback, stress reduction with Yoga, or prayer, or whatever.... may be the perfect option for one person but not necessarily for someone else. That's another reason why I love this group is to be able to discuss all options, even if they might disagree with it as well.

And thanks hon for the nice compliment, but I'm not a wonder woman, *smile* there have been many others too that have been made well doing what I did or at least greatly improved. But I'm one of the ones (and some others of us 'oldies' out there, *smile*) that hung around and continued hoping to help others where many have gone on with life once they got well and that goes for any treatment if it's worked, it's just human nature. nne you've no idea how much I hope and pray with all my might that things will still turn around for you and we'll all shout it to the high heavens and have a huge party hon.

Luv ya,

Dee ~

RE: Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

Dee, I think you are a wonder woman how you were cured, but I have been on Estrogen cream for almost two years, and except for keeping all the tissues looking nice, it did nothing for my pain. And I am glad you mentioned about surgery being the last resort, because it is. All the doctors tell you to do everything else first – and Chelle is a good example. She has done everything, gone everywhere, seen everyone. She has done it all and is still trying. She doesn’t want surgery, and she is doing her best to prevent it by still looking at her options. I don’t ever tell anyone to have surgery, PT, acupuncture, etc., or anything. Try any or all, what works for one, doesn’t work for another and etc. We have to be open minded about treatments and do what is best for ourselves.

nne

[Guest guest]

I used Estrace for 2 years also and it did not help. Of course I did

have surface problems. I had the surgery. I still have problems but

not the surface any more.

What I meant by my comment was that sometimes when you have a muscles

spasm and your nerves are compressed, the nerve signals that you feel

make it seem like it hurts on the outside. This has been confirmed by

at least one Physical Therapist that I talked with.

It just goes on and on doesn't it!

>

> Dee, I think you are a wonder woman how you were cured, but I have

been on

> Estrogen cream for almost two years, and except for keeping all the

tissues

> looking nice, it did nothing for my pain. And I am glad you

mentioned about

> surgery being the last resort, because it is. All the doctors tell

you to do

> everything else first - and Chelle is a good example. She has done

> everything, gone everywhere, seen everyone. She has done it all and

is still

> trying. She doesn't want surgery, and she is doing her best to

prevent it by

> still looking at her options. I don't ever tell anyone to have

surgery, PT,

> acupuncture, etc., or anything. Try any or all, what works for one,

doesn't

> work for another and etc. We have to be open minded about treatments

and do

> what is best for ourselves.

>

> nne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: VulvarDisorders

> [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of Dee Troll

> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:51 PM

> To: VulvarDisorders

> Subject: Re: Re: Sex Therapist advice on female masturbation

>

>

>

>

> The pain *feels* external but the actual cause is internal.>

>

>

>

> No hon, I don't mean to disagree and it's not just you saying that

so it's

> certainly not personal, *smile* but the actual cause is NOT always

internal

> at all.

>

>

>

> Believe me I 'knew' without a doubt that 'all' of my pain was

external and

> in the tissue itself. It wasn't from any radiating pain, and no one

will

> ever convince 'me' of that. Not saying PT or surgery isn't

wonderful for

> some of you of course not and we can see how it's helped in many

cases, but

> there are those and we've seen them here, who wished they'd never

done it as

> well, that turned out badly so we need to keep a balanced view

here.

>

>

>