My stupid STUPID mistake, was: yipppeeeeee!!! surfactant

November 11, 2011

"I don't care what the ingredients are if it works" I second that. I would not for a second think of turning something helpful down AGAIN just because it has a naughty dye or similar - unless as you said you knew for certain that that particular ingredient always causes a reaction. IMO it is very unfortunate that many people are 'programmed' to refuse things that are not 'clean' or 'natural' without even considering potential benefits. Years ago we were offered something to help with constipation. I turned it down because of 'unclean' ingredients. Without actually looking into them properly - my refusal was based solely on other people's opinions on what is clean and 'natural' and what isn't. How stupid is that! Years of constipation, pain, tears and many many unsuccessful attempts to control it later I decided to give this thing a go and it worked LIKE A DREAM. A year on and we are still on it, as needed, without any negatives whatsoever. All good. 12 best months ever in terms of progress and 'losing' autism btw. Just to say that I am in no way 'endorsing' this surfactant or anything else (not even our constipation magical fairy product, as it doesn't Work for every kid) but only trying to stress the importance of 'DO WHAT WORKS'. Please don't ever allow yourself to be held back by only sticking to 'clean' or 'natural'. Natasa > > > >> > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works. It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works. Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were inclined to try it, I would.> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results. > > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee you that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't. This seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over (again, I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I don't see why it can't be left at "oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do it.") I don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like the ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no bueno.> > > > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a sensitive child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do it? It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning. > > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda understandable). Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have promised x, y, & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately shut down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list. She hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are all a-ruffled.> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but $88 a bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle doesn't seem to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an experiment and I don't have money to experiment with at the moment. > > > > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~> > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~> >>

November 11, 2011

LOL Natasa... I completely agree (but if that product is Miralax... BOO! :-) ):::hugs:::

" I don't care what the ingredients are if it works " I second that. I would not for a second think of turning something helpful down AGAIN just because it has a naughty dye or similar - unless as you said you knew for certain that that particular ingredient always causes a reaction.

IMO it is very unfortunate that many people are 'programmed' to refuse things that are not 'clean' or 'natural' without even considering potential benefits. Years ago we were offered something to help with constipation. I turned it down because of 'unclean' ingredients. Without actually looking into them properly - my refusal was based solely on other people's opinions on what is clean and 'natural' and what isn't. How stupid is that! Years of constipation, pain, tears and many many unsuccessful attempts to control it later I decided to give this thing a go and it worked LIKE A DREAM. A year on and we are still on it, as needed, without any negatives whatsoever. All good. 12 best months ever in terms of progress and 'losing' autism btw.

Just to say that I am in no way 'endorsing' this surfactant or anything else (not even our constipation magical fairy product, as it doesn't Work for every kid) but only trying to stress the importance of 'DO WHAT WORKS'. Please don't ever allow yourself to be held back by only sticking to 'clean' or 'natural'.

Natasa > > > >> > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works. It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works. Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results. > > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee you that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't. This seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over (again, I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I don't see why it can't be left at " oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do it. " ) I don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like the ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no bueno.

> > > > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a sensitive child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do it? It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda understandable). Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have promised x, y, & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately shut down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list. She hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are all a-ruffled.

> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but $88 a bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle doesn't seem to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an experiment and I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > > > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~> > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> >>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

November 11, 2011

I can only speak for myself personally when I say my hesitation is not whether it's natural or not as we have no way of knowing WHAT it is. Even things things are natural, doesn't mean they are always safe or safe for every individual. Nor does it mean synthetics are always dangerous. "surfactant blends" is just a little too vague for my comfort. But that's just me. Nothing against Rita - who has been AWESOME. That's just my own personal feeling. But I'm hardly a rocket scientist. I know nothing about surfactants, edible or synthetic. My google searches have produced little to help further my understanding. So, I just don't feel comfortable. Until I learn more about surfactants in general and more specifically, what's used in the product, I don't think I'd try

it.-TammyTo: mb12valtrex Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 6:58 AMSubject: My stupid STUPID mistake, was: yipppeeeeee!!! surfactant

"I don't care what the ingredients are if it works" I second that. I would not for a second think of turning something helpful down AGAIN just because it has a naughty dye or similar - unless as you said you knew for certain that that particular ingredient always causes a reaction. IMO it is very unfortunate that many people are 'programmed' to refuse things that are not 'clean' or 'natural' without even considering potential benefits. Years ago we were offered something to help with constipation. I turned it down because of 'unclean' ingredients. Without actually looking into them properly - my refusal was based solely on other people's opinions on what is clean and 'natural' and what isn't. How stupid is that! Years of constipation, pain, tears and many many unsuccessful attempts to control it later I decided to give this thing a go and it worked LIKE A DREAM. A year on and we are still on it, as needed, without any negatives whatsoever.

All good. 12 best months ever in terms of progress and 'losing' autism btw. Just to say that I am in no way 'endorsing' this surfactant or anything else (not even our constipation magical fairy product, as it doesn't Work for every kid) but only trying to stress the importance of 'DO WHAT WORKS'. Please don't ever allow yourself to be held back by only sticking to 'clean' or 'natural'. Natasa > > > >> > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works. It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works. Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were inclined to try it, I would.> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's

nothing that says a person can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results. > > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee you that

your children are getting things you really wish they weren't. This seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over (again, I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I don't see why it can't be left at "oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do it.") I don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like the ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no bueno.> > > > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a

sensitive child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do it? It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning. > > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda understandable). Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have promised x, y, & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately shut down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list.

She hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are all a-ruffled.> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but $88 a bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle doesn't seem to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an experiment and I don't have money to experiment with at the moment. > > > > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~> > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~> >>

November 11, 2011

yes I agree, same here.

Natasa

> > >

> > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what

works. It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if

it works. Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over

the food coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son

doesn't so if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > >

> > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person

can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting

results.

> > >

> > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm

trying a *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any

questions, I have to put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin

makes him sooooo not hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm

starting with something I know other people are having big successes

with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so whether he gets any

gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not have to give

him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is really

moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)

> > >

> > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I

understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid

them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee

you that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't.

This seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over

(again, I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that

I don't see why it can't be left at " oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't

do it. " ) I don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do

for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it

or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude

problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that,

either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo

when I say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking

point. It's not like the ingredients list

> is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and

others) products that I can easily say that's no bueno.

> > >

> > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a sensitive

child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself

wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue

number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do

it? It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > >

> > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and

that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda

understandable). Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that

have promised x, y, & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma.

I immediately shut down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find

this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all share stories about

what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM

marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she

sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to

directly sell on this list. She hasn't tried to disguise it as something

else, which happens often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on

why people's feathers are all a-ruffled.

> > >

> > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what

works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but

$88 a bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle

doesn't seem to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to

an experiment and I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > >

> > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > >

> > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > >

> >

>

November 11, 2011

Similar to that, same active ingredient plus electrolytes added. Has it

not worked for you (sorry )

nxx

> > > >

> > > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what

works.

> > It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it

works.

> > Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food

> > coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son

doesn't so

> > if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a

person

> > can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting

> > results.

> > > >

> > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm

trying a

> > *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I

have to

> > put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo

not

> > hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with

something I

> > know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he

still

> > need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism

> > [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him

antivirals/antifungaals

> > anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a

welcome

> > bonus.)

> > > >

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from.

I

> > understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally

avoid

> > them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I

guarantee you

> > that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't.

This

> > seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over

(again,

> > I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I

don't see

> > why it can't be left at " oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do

it. " ) I

> > don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for

various

> > reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or

challenge

> > them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem

(which I

> > don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only

saying

> > this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't

> > understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like

the

> > ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things

in

> > Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no

bueno.

> > > >

> > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a

sensitive

> > child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find

myself

> > wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake

Blue

> > number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you

do it?

> > It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association

and

> > that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda

understandable).

> > Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have

promised x, y,

> > & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately

shut

> > down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a

bit of

> > an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us.

Hers

> > happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you

> > through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the

general

> > website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list.

She

> > hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often.

It's

> > the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are

all

> > a-ruffled.

> > > >

> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do

what

> > works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports

but $88 a

> > bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle

doesn't seem

> > to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an

experiment and

> > I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > > >

> > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > > >

> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

November 11, 2011

No, we don't use Miralax. It is always highly recommended by doctorsbut it's a petroleum product and converts to oxalate and just perpetuatesmitochondrial dysfunction and constipation. There's a yahoo group dedicated

solely to damage caused by miralax. :-( Thankfully one pitfall we have avoidedthough we have been the " victims " of others LOL Just last week had to return Mag Citrate we've been using for over a year

because I never noticed it has PEG in in (polyethylene glycol) same stuff in Miralaxthat is a problem. It's used as a nice glossy coating on the tablet, I'm sure,so minuscule amt per tab but we take a lot of it so... :-(

We need to get the doc to write a compounded rx for ibu because the ibu liquid we havehas PEG (although it is dye free LOL) and I did find tablets that are dye free (YAY) but alsocoated with the PEG, like the mag citrate was. Whhhhhaaaaahhhh! ;-)

Similar to that, same active ingredient plus electrolytes added. Has it

not worked for you (sorry )

nxx

> > > >

> > > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what

works.

> > It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it

works.

> > Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food

> > coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son

doesn't so

> > if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a

person

> > can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting

> > results.

> > > >

> > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm

trying a

> > *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I

have to

> > put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo

not

> > hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with

something I

> > know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he

still

> > need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism

> > [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him

antivirals/antifungaals

> > anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a

welcome

> > bonus.)

> > > >

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from.

I

> > understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally

avoid

> > them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I

guarantee you

> > that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't.

This

> > seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over

(again,

> > I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I

don't see

> > why it can't be left at " oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do

it. " ) I

> > don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for

various

> > reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or

challenge

> > them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem

(which I

> > don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only

saying

> > this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't

> > understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like

the

> > ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things

in

> > Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no

bueno.

> > > >

> > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a

sensitive

> > child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find

myself

> > wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake

Blue

> > number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you

do it?

> > It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association

and

> > that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda

understandable).

> > Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have

promised x, y,

> > & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately

shut

> > down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a

bit of

> > an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us.

Hers

> > happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you

> > through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the

general

> > website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list.

She

> > hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often.

It's

> > the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are

all

> > a-ruffled.

> > > >

> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do

what

> > works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports

but $88 a

> > bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle

doesn't seem

> > to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an

experiment and

> > I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > > >

> > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > > >

> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

November 11, 2011

Doggone!! Thanks for this info Toni. I had miralax all ready to go for our little man since he just got his daily iron raised to 100 mg. This is a pretty high dose and Doc says add C ( you know what O says to that ) to avoid constipation. Hope the prunes will suffice! Sent from my iPhone

No, we don't use Miralax. It is always highly recommended by doctorsbut it's a petroleum product and converts to oxalate and just perpetuatesmitochondrial dysfunction and constipation. There's a yahoo group dedicated

solely to damage caused by miralax. :-( Thankfully one pitfall we have avoidedthough we have been the "victims" of others LOL Just last week had to return Mag Citrate we've been using for over a year

because I never noticed it has PEG in in (polyethylene glycol) same stuff in Miralaxthat is a problem. It's used as a nice glossy coating on the tablet, I'm sure,so minuscule amt per tab but we take a lot of it so... :-(

We need to get the doc to write a compounded rx for ibu because the ibu liquid we havehas PEG (although it is dye free LOL) and I did find tablets that are dye free (YAY) but alsocoated with the PEG, like the mag citrate was. Whhhhhaaaaahhhh! ;-)

Similar to that, same active ingredient plus electrolytes added. Has it

not worked for you (sorry )

nxx

> > > >

> > > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what

works.

> > It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it

works.

> > Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food

> > coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son

doesn't so

> > if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a

person

> > can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting

> > results.

> > > >

> > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm

trying a

> > *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I

have to

> > put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo

not

> > hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with

something I

> > know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he

still

> > need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism

> > [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him

antivirals/antifungaals

> > anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a

welcome

> > bonus.)

> > > >

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from.

I

> > understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally

avoid

> > them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I

guarantee you

> > that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't.

This

> > seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over

(again,

> > I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I

don't see

> > why it can't be left at "oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do

it.") I

> > don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for

various

> > reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or

challenge

> > them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem

(which I

> > don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only

saying

> > this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't

> > understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like

the

> > ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things

in

> > Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no

bueno.

> > > >

> > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a

sensitive

> > child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find

myself

> > wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake

Blue

> > number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you

do it?

> > It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association

and

> > that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda

understandable).

> > Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have

promised x, y,

> > & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately

shut

> > down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a

bit of

> > an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us.

Hers

> > happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you

> > through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the

general

> > website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list.

She

> > hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often.

It's

> > the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are

all

> > a-ruffled.

> > > >

> > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do

what

> > works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports

but $88 a

> > bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle

doesn't seem

> > to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an

experiment and

> > I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > > >

> > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > > >

> > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

November 11, 2011

But your posts illustrates my point exactly - someone would read (me in

the past) a post like yours and be scared off something that could be

potentially life-changing for their child. We have never had any

problems on it, only good stuff, and coincidentally ds has been thriving

throughout the period he has been on it.

I see that scaring-people-off happen a lot on boards, with many other

things, and find this really sad. Tragic.

Natasa x

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do

what

> > works.

> > > > It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are

if it

> > works.

> > > > Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the

food

> > > > coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son

> > doesn't so

> > > > if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a

> > person

> > > > can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others

getting

> > > > results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why

I'm

> > trying a

> > > > *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions,

I

> > have to

> > > > put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him

sooooo

> > not

> > > > hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with

> > something I

> > > > know other people are having big successes with. No matter what,

he

> > still

> > > > need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the

autism

> > > > [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him

> > antivirals/antifungaals

> > > > anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a

> > welcome

> > > > bonus.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming

from.

> > I

> > > > understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we

generally

> > avoid

> > > > them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I

> > guarantee you

> > > > that your children are getting things you really wish they

weren't.

> > This

> > > > seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative

over

> > (again,

> > > > I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that

I

> > don't see

> > > > why it can't be left at " oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do

> > it. " ) I

> > > > don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for

> > various

> > > > reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or

> > challenge

> > > > them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude

problem

> > (which I

> > > > don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm

only

> > saying

> > > > this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I

don't

> > > > understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not

like

> > the

> > > > ingredients list is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of

things

> > in

> > > > Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no

> > bueno.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a

> > sensitive

> > > > child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find

> > myself

> > > > wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake

> > Blue

> > > > number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't

you

> > do it?

> > > > It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM

association

> > and

> > > > that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda

> > understandable).

> > > > Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have

> > promised x, y,

> > > > & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I

immediately

> > shut

> > > > down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be

a

> > bit of

> > > > an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for

us.

> > Hers

> > > > happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to

you

> > > > through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the

> > general

> > > > website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this

list.

> > She

> > > > hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens

often.

> > It's

> > > > the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers

are

> > all

> > > > a-ruffled.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos.

Do

> > what

> > > > works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the

reports

> > but $88 a

> > > > bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle

> > doesn't seem

> > > > to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an

> > experiment and

> > > > I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > > > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Toni

> > >

> > > ------

> > > Mind like a steel trap...

> > > Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Toni

>

> ------

> Mind like a steel trap...

> Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

>

November 11, 2011

It's not tragic at all. It causes people to do research and make their own choices instead of following blindly.Lest you think it's good to just follow blindly when people say thatvaccines are wonderful, life-changing and " we've never had problems " on it.

My kids did not regress from vaccines. Do I tell people to vaccinate, or not?No. I give info and they just have to decide for themselves. As in all aspects of life.(FWIW I do believe my kids are mercury damaged from invitro exposure to

my amalgams and the flu shots I was convinced to get because they are supposedto be so wonderful. Secondly impaired by my high oxalate food consumption.This set them up IMO for immune dysfunction and where we sit today.)

We try to avoid all sorts of things in this household. I sometimes fail,by my own choosing and sometimes fail by accident.No biggie, I move on with my day and healing my kids. And offering support,sorry you do not view it that way.

But your posts illustrates my point exactly - someone would read (me in

the past) a post like yours and be scared off something that could be

potentially life-changing for their child. We have never had any

problems on it, only good stuff, and coincidentally ds has been thriving

throughout the period he has been on it.

I see that scaring-people-off happen a lot on boards, with many other

things, and find this really sad. Tragic.

Natasa x-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

November 11, 2011

Being a proprietary product I do not know, nor will they tell me which specific

surfactants are being used. They've only told me there are over 80 & a couple of

the benefitial properties are oxygenating & hydrating..there were other factors

too.

Regarding the proprietary nature, this product has been so successful it has

been black-marketed & tried to be reverse-engineered...there is no way they'd

ever post the ingredients on the web...no more than coca-cola would...not even

law suits could pull coca-cola's ingredients to their " beverage concentrate " .

I've seen labs w/kids on this go from normalizing/improving IgE down from 500 to

341.... & All Phos from 1200 to a normal 50 in just a couple of months on this

product. This mom was the pediatrician, she understands the benefits of

surfactants w/the body.

Those that will use this product will use it, regardless of the ingredient

list....those that won't because of the details won't. While I fully agree that

gathering information is very important to each of us (If I had looked into

vaccines & not blindly followed his doc my life would be different), but there

comes a point where after researching as much as possible, some will move

forward & some not...that's just the way it is. I will try & be here to answer

the ?'s of those that need help with it.

I highly appreciate all that you've done on the group & with your child, but for

the sake of my limited time I'd really like to move forward from the propritary

info that I can not do anything about.

All My Best!

Rita

> > >

> > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works. It's

really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works. Would I

prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring? Only if I

*knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were inclined to try

it, I would.

> > >

> > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person can't

stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results.

> > >

> > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a

*gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put

my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and

since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people

are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so

whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not

have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is

really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)

> > >

> > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I

understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid them

like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee you that your

children are getting things you really wish they weren't. This seems like such

an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over (again, I DO get where you're

coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I don't see why it can't be left at

" oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do it. " ) I don't do *a lot* of things that

many people on this list do for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string

everyone up for it or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an

attitude problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that,

either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I

say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not

like the ingredients list

> is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and others)

products that I can easily say that's no bueno.

> > >

> > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a sensitive child

and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself wanting to say

DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue number 5 and you can't

find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do it? It's an extreme and

unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > >

> > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and that's

why this response is happening (which is also kinda understandable). Maybe I'm

wrong. There have been many MLM products that have promised x, y, & z and never

delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately shut down when I hear about

MLM products, too. I just find this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all

share stories about what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not

overt MLM marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she

sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell

on this list. She hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens

often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are

all a-ruffled.

> > >

> > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what works

for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but $88 a bottle is

a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle doesn't seem to last that

long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an experiment and I don't have

money to experiment with at the moment.

> > >

> > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > >

> > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > >

> >

>

November 11, 2011

Thanks Rita for all of this info! I am really interested in looking into this more down the road (ie after we get the chelation going in the next month or two). Could you please let us know if/when you hear anything about the version without the dyes? I may still try it anyway but would rather wait for the dye-free version.Many thanks again for putting surfactants on my radar -- this is all very new to me!!From: rchildbalance

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:25 PMSubject: Re: My stupid STUPID mistake, was: yipppeeeeee!!! surfactant

Being a proprietary product I do not know, nor will they tell me which specific surfactants are being used. They've only told me there are over 80 & a couple of the benefitial properties are oxygenating & hydrating..there were other factors too.

Regarding the proprietary nature, this product has been so successful it has been black-marketed & tried to be reverse-engineered...there is no way they'd ever post the ingredients on the web...no more than coca-cola would...not even law suits could pull coca-cola's ingredients to their "beverage concentrate".

I've seen labs w/kids on this go from normalizing/improving IgE down from 500 to 341.... & All Phos from 1200 to a normal 50 in just a couple of months on this product. This mom was the pediatrician, she understands the benefits of surfactants w/the body.

Those that will use this product will use it, regardless of the ingredient list....those that won't because of the details won't. While I fully agree that gathering information is very important to each of us (If I had looked into vaccines & not blindly followed his doc my life would be different), but there comes a point where after researching as much as possible, some will move forward & some not...that's just the way it is. I will try & be here to answer the ?'s of those that need help with it.

I highly appreciate all that you've done on the group & with your child, but for the sake of my limited time I'd really like to move forward from the propritary info that I can not do anything about.

All My Best!

Rita

> > >

> > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works. It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works. Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring? Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were inclined to try it, I would.

> > >

> > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person can't stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results.

> > >

> > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a *gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)

> > >

> > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I understand the dyes are big no-no for most of us and we generally avoid them like the plague if we can. But we can't always do so. I guarantee you that your children are getting things you really wish they weren't. This seems like such an insignificant thing to be so argumentative over (again, I DO get where you're coming from, I guess I'm just saying that I don't see why it can't be left at "oh there's dye in it. I can't/won't do it.") I don't do *a lot* of things that many people on this list do for various reasons. I don't feel the need to string everyone up for it or challenge them. I only get moderator-pissy when there's an attitude problem (which I don't see here so don't think I'm suggesting that, either). I'm only saying this because I don't want to start a big ta-doo when I say, I don't understand why it's turned into such a sticking point. It's not like the

ingredients list

> is overwhelmingly bad. There are plenty of things in Kirkman's (and others) products that I can easily say that's no bueno.

> > >

> > > Are ingredients important? Yes. Especially if you have a sensitive child and you know their sensitivities. But once again, I find myself wanting to say DO WHAT WORKS. If what works for your kid is Lake Blue number 5 and you can't find anything else, why on earth wouldn't you do it? It's an extreme and unlikely example but you get my meaning.

> > >

> > > I feel like this product is suffering from its MLM association and that's why this response is happening (which is also kinda understandable). Maybe I'm wrong. There have been many MLM products that have promised x, y, & z and never delivered so I get that bit of stigma. I immediately shut down when I hear about MLM products, too. I just find this to be a bit of an awkward situation. We all share stories about what works for us. Hers happens to be Immusist. It's not overt MLM marketing directly to you through her sales account - the website she sends you to is the general website so I don't see any attempt to directly sell on this list. She hasn't tried to disguise it as something else, which happens often. It's the only thing I can figure, though, on why people's feathers are all a-ruffled.

> > >

> > > Keep your heads. Common sense is king in a world of chaos. Do what works for your kid. I'd be willing to try it based on the reports but $88 a bottle is a bit steep, especially when considering one bottle doesn't seem to last that long. It's a steep price for what amounts to an experiment and I don't have money to experiment with at the moment.

> > >

> > > ~ Antiviral Therapy 101

> > >

> > > ~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com/ ~

> > > ~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

> > >

> >

>

November 11, 2011

Agreed! The ends justifies the means. :-)

Being a proprietary product I do not know, nor will they tell me which specific surfactants are being used. They've only told me there are over 80 & a couple of the benefitial properties are oxygenating & hydrating..there were other factors too.

Regarding the proprietary nature, this product has been so successful it has been black-marketed & tried to be reverse-engineered...there is no way they'd ever post the ingredients on the web...no more than coca-cola would...not even law suits could pull coca-cola's ingredients to their " beverage concentrate " .

I've seen labs w/kids on this go from normalizing/improving IgE down from 500 to 341.... & All Phos from 1200 to a normal 50 in just a couple of months on this product. This mom was the pediatrician, she understands the benefits of surfactants w/the body.

Those that will use this product will use it, regardless of the ingredient list....those that won't because of the details won't. While I fully agree that gathering information is very important to each of us (If I had looked into vaccines & not blindly followed his doc my life would be different), but there comes a point where after researching as much as possible, some will move forward & some not...that's just the way it is. I will try & be here to answer the ?'s of those that need help with it.

I highly appreciate all that you've done on the group & with your child, but for the sake of my limited time I'd really like to move forward from the propritary info that I can not do anything about.

All My Best!

Rita-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

November 12, 2011

Thanks Rita for starting the discussion. I'm doing the ART testing with dr. Nesreen on Friday and will let you know the outcome. cheers, mardi Sent from my Windows Phone

November 12, 2011

,

I'll make sure & let the group know.

Just to put a feather in your cap, having done several different types of

chelation over the past 7 years, this last year with adding Immusist I hit the

highest level of long-term chelation w/the immusist...his Doctors Data Hair

report came back w/mercury hitting in the yellow @ .63.

Blessings,

Rita

> > > >

> > > > I don't have a horse in this race. Here's my opinion: do what works.

It's really that simple. I don't care what the ingredients are if it works.

Would I prefer it be better? Absolutely. Would I argue over the food coloring?

Only if I *knew* my kid would spin out on it. My son doesn't so if I were

inclined to try it, I would.

> > > >

> > > > It's not a lifelong commitment. There's nothing that says a person can't

stop. But I would be willing to try it if I saw others getting results.

> > > >

> > > > That's why I'm trying humaworm and not alinia. That's why I'm trying a

*gasp* MLM product called Reliv (and before I get any questions, I have to put

my son on a nutritional shake since the ritalin makes him sooooo not hungry and

since I have to buy one anyway, I'm starting with something I know other people

are having big successes with. No matter what, he still need the nutrition so

whether he gets any gains in either the autism [meaning I'd really like to not

have to give him antivirals/antifungaals anymore] or the adhd department is

really moot - but would be a welcome bonus.)

> > > >

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I understand where you all are coming from. I