Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? It's in regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then acting like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't get her way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, he told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) having 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. But in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the other person gives in to her demands. She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD said, " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents having to go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they have with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be calling a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer (which we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association repeatedly!) Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just makes her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries now. Thanks for any advice, Mia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I think consulting your lawyer, even though he's not a tribal law lawyer, is your best bet because the criteria required for obtaining a restraining order or other kind of protective order can vary from state to state. Best of luck with that, I hope you can get one. -Annie > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? It's in > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then acting > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't get her > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, he > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) having > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. But > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the other > person gives in to her demands. > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD said, > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents having to > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they have > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be calling > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer (which > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > repeatedly!) > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just makes > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries now. > > Thanks for any advice, > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Mia, I sent you a PM--if you're comfortable, I'd like to try to help you with my new librarian school skills and help you guys find a good tribal lawyer. I'm sure there are resources out there for people like you. Good luck (((hugs))) On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:27 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > ** > > > I think consulting your lawyer, even though he's not a tribal law lawyer, > is your best bet because the criteria required for obtaining a restraining > order or other kind of protective order can vary from state to state. Best > of luck with that, I hope you can get one. > > -Annie > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? It's > in > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then > acting > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't get > her > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, > he > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) having > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. > But > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the > other > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD said, > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents having > to > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they have > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > calling > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > (which > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > repeatedly!) > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just > makes > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries now. > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Annie may be right, but before you retain a lawyer you need to document the problem in detail. I had this problem with my ex BP wife. First you need to serve her with a " cease and desist order, " which needs be delivered to her via restricted/certified mail or pay her local law enforcement to serve it to her (cost about $20). Let the offender know that you are recording her phone calls and VMs and documenting her offenses and will be filing charges if she does not stop. The order must specifically describe the behaviors that you want to stop (ie, phone calls, in person contact, emails, mail, whatever...). Keep a record of dates, times, and what she did. Report the harassment to the police and collect police reports as evidence. Record VM and phone calls on tape; you can get this equipment from Radio Shack. If you can establish a verbal abusive pattern, you may be able to obtain a restraining order. The only way you will have the law on your side is if you establish NC with the offender. NC does not pertain to making visitation arrangements with children, but it is limited to this type of communication. Except for visitation arrangements, there should be no contact. Limited contact is not an option if you want help from law enforcement. If she is not particularly abusive, but just harasses you regularly, you can likely file harassment charges with you local law enforcement, but this will likely be a low priority for them. However, if you continually file charges, they will be forced to eventually do something. These convictions will go on her permanent record and they will affect her ability to get jobs if there are too many of them. No one wants to hire a psycho. Unfortunately, a judge will not likely issue an order until many charges have been filed (depending on laws in your area). Normally, once the offender sees that you are serious, they will stop. If they don't, it will take some work on your end, but eventually the law will provide you with support. Good luck. > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? It's in > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then acting > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't get her > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, he > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) having > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. But > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the other > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD said, > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents having to > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they have > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be calling > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer (which > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > repeatedly!) > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just makes > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries now. > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Wow, pdff, that's fabulous information! Thank you SO MUCH for all of it and I am so sorry you have had to go through a similar experience. Fiance has a friend of the family who is a lawyer and who consulted with him the last time. The numbers she gave us for tribal lawyers were incorrect (as in they didn't do tribal law). However, I may see if he wants to speak to her again in regards to this. I really like the cease & desist order idea. I called it " limited contact " because he obviously does have to interact with her when it comes to the kids so wasn't sure if that would be considered a no contact thing or not. Realistically speaking, it's limited... just really really limited which is what we want. I'm not sure if you can answer this or not, but I will ask it anyway... can we clearly define in the letter that the only communication is to be in regards to exchanging the kids? I'm also sure he'd want to be notified if there were some kind of medical emergency for the kids. Other than that, she needs to leave us alone. Thanks so much for the idea! I'll discuss it with fiance and see what he's going to do. He's gotta do it. But frankly, I don't want any contact with her either. It's seriously sad we have to put up with this special form of insanity. First in the form of a nada, now in the form of my fiance's ex? Oy vey, will it ever end? (probably not) Thanks again, Mia > > > Annie may be right, but before you retain a lawyer you need to document the > problem in detail. I had this problem with my ex BP wife. First you need to > serve her with a " cease and desist order, " which needs be delivered to her > via restricted/certified mail or pay her local law enforcement to serve it > to her (cost about $20). Let the offender know that you are recording her > phone calls and VMs and documenting her offenses and will be filing charges > if she does not stop. The order must specifically describe the behaviors > that you want to stop (ie, phone calls, in person contact, emails, mail, > whatever...). Keep a record of dates, times, and what she did. Report the > harassment to the police and collect police reports as evidence. Record VM > and phone calls on tape; you can get this equipment from Radio Shack. If you > can establish a verbal abusive pattern, you may be able to obtain a > restraining order. > > The only way you will have the law on your side is if you establish NC with > the offender. NC does not pertain to making visitation arrangements with > children, but it is limited to this type of communication. Except for > visitation arrangements, there should be no contact. Limited contact is not > an option if you want help from law enforcement. > > If she is not particularly abusive, but just harasses you regularly, you > can likely file harassment charges with you local law enforcement, but this > will likely be a low priority for them. However, if you continually file > charges, they will be forced to eventually do something. These convictions > will go on her permanent record and they will affect her ability to get jobs > if there are too many of them. No one wants to hire a psycho. Unfortunately, > a judge will not likely issue an order until many charges have been filed > (depending on laws in your area). > > Normally, once the offender sees that you are serious, they will stop. If > they don't, it will take some work on your end, but eventually the law will > provide you with support. > > Good luck. > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > It's in > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then > acting > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't > get her > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, > he > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > having > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. > But > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the > other > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > said, > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > having to > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they > have > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > calling > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > (which > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just > makes > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > now. > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 You know that she is going to do everything in her power to invalidate the cease and desist order, so be very thorough. You don't have to have a lawyer, but if you have one in the family, it would help to use that resource to make the communication as " bullet proof " as possible. You don't have to label the communication level on the order as being NC or LC, all you have to do is very clearly describe the behavior that you want stopped and the specific types of communication that are allowed (for visitation). Unfortunately, you can not control what she says when she calls you. So if she wants to take a jab at you when she calls to make visitation arrangements, there is nothing legally you can do about it, if you allow phone contact in your order. This sets you up for failure, because the BP is naturally going to call you just to screw with you and claim she was trying to make visitation arrangements. Ya, I have totally been there, done that. Although you can record phone calls, it is a big hassle and it is hard to do if she calls your cell. Trust me, after a year, this will get very old, and if you ever stop, things will go back to normal, with her calling you just to mess with you. So, it might be a good idea to set up email only boundaries, with exception being emergencies. Or have a middle man, like one of your parents or a friend that both of you respect. Of course, a middle man can also cause problems. There is no way to totally eliminate BP abuse, but you can limit it significantly by trying out new boundaries. I have found communication via the phone to be the most problematic. Thus I avoid it whenever possible. Face to face works as long as the kids ore not present and you are solid enough not to be triggered by BP behavior. For me, email works the best, because it gives me a chance to process the communication before I respond (or choose not to). The BP will do everything in her power to destroy or invalidate the boundary and they are very good at it (as you have probably figured out by now). When this happens, you have to get good at finding the weakness in your boundary fortress and make it stronger. It is quite literally war. Think of it like a strategy game where you are trying to protect your family by creating a functional fortress around them. But don't create a prison around yourself. Good luck. > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > > It's in > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then > > acting > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't > > get her > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, > > he > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > > having > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. > > But > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the > > other > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > > said, > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > > having to > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they > > have > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > > calling > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > > (which > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just > > makes > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > > now. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Very good advice. I can say with a clear conscious that I am strong enough for this. However, not sure if fiance is. his ex is very good at manipulating him... FOGging him when it comes to the kids. But I do think he's making progress as he is ready to try NC with her as much as feasibly possible. I like the idea of email only communication. However, not sure how much access she has to internet and a computer. She consistently pawns it and then gets it back, pawns it again. She does go to college though and they have computers & internet there. Maybe I'm being too nice, but shouldn't she have access to the means of communication if we go that route? Fiance also says he does not want phone communication from her any longer. He wants to change his number, too. But then in the case of a true emergency... then what? Not sure who we could get as a go-between. We could ask his dad, but not sure he wants to deal with hit. He loathes the woman. So, not sure what we'll do yet. I'm reading up on all kinds of advice for people in complicated & angry divorce situations and getting some good knowledge. It's just going to be figuring out what we need to do that will work best in our situation. Thank you a million times over! Really, I am very grateful! Mia > > > You know that she is going to do everything in her power to invalidate the > cease and desist order, so be very thorough. You don't have to have a > lawyer, but if you have one in the family, it would help to use that > resource to make the communication as " bullet proof " as possible. > > You don't have to label the communication level on the order as being NC or > LC, all you have to do is very clearly describe the behavior that you want > stopped and the specific types of communication that are allowed (for > visitation). Unfortunately, you can not control what she says when she calls > you. So if she wants to take a jab at you when she calls to make visitation > arrangements, there is nothing legally you can do about it, if you allow > phone contact in your order. This sets you up for failure, because the BP is > naturally going to call you just to screw with you and claim she was trying > to make visitation arrangements. Ya, I have totally been there, done that. > Although you can record phone calls, it is a big hassle and it is hard to do > if she calls your cell. Trust me, after a year, this will get very old, and > if you ever stop, things will go back to normal, with her calling you just > to mess with you. > > So, it might be a good idea to set up email only boundaries, with exception > being emergencies. Or have a middle man, like one of your parents or a > friend that both of you respect. Of course, a middle man can also cause > problems. > > There is no way to totally eliminate BP abuse, but you can limit it > significantly by trying out new boundaries. I have found communication via > the phone to be the most problematic. Thus I avoid it whenever possible. > Face to face works as long as the kids ore not present and you are solid > enough not to be triggered by BP behavior. For me, email works the best, > because it gives me a chance to process the communication before I respond > (or choose not to). > > The BP will do everything in her power to destroy or invalidate the > boundary and they are very good at it (as you have probably figured out by > now). When this happens, you have to get good at finding the weakness in > your boundary fortress and make it stronger. It is quite literally war. > Think of it like a strategy game where you are trying to protect your family > by creating a functional fortress around them. But don't create a prison > around yourself. Good luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > > > It's in > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have > I. We > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and > then > > > acting > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she > doesn't > > > get her > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house > key, > > > he > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > > > having > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, > dammit. > > > But > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until > the > > > other > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > > > said, > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. > It's > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > > > having to > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact > they > > > have > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > > > calling > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > > > (which > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar > association > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline > just > > > makes > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 There is not, in practice, an LC order. You can get a restraining order, but that is difficult in the case of someone being a crazy bitch, rather than a danger. Was that my out loud voice? You have 2 conficting issues here. One is the crazy bitch ex with whom you want no contact. The other is the SD with whom, I assume, your fiance would like contact. She will of course, use the SD againt him, and try to villianize him in her eyes. In my perfect world, in any divorce, no child of any age would ever be left with any BP. Sadly, courts don t agree with me. Of course, they were not the human rubble left from growing up with a crazy bitch BP mom, like I am. If there were any way for you to get her away, or help her escape that craziness, I d urge you to do so. There isnt. So, my advice is not for LC, but NC. Change phone numbers. If he calls for the daughter, block the numbers. Get a throw away phone for SD s calls, and tell her that if mom gets the number and calls, even once, you ll destroy the phone and she ll have to wait till you get another one for her to call. Refuse to talk to ex unless to set up visits for SD. If she cuts them off, you may then need a lawyer for visitation. Make it plain to her that you neither one want any contact with her, or conversation with her. None. She will never ever respect your boundaries, and will always push your buttons. If there were some reason for keeping contact, I might continue to enforce them and try, but this is an ex wife. Doug > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? It's in > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. We > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then acting > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't get her > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house key, he > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) having > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. But > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the other > person gives in to her demands. > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD said, > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents having to > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they have > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be calling > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer (which > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > repeatedly!) > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just makes > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries now. > > Thanks for any advice, > Mia > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Doug, I totally agree with everything you say here. I feel bad for those parents that have to fight to stay in there child's life and I grieve for the children who have to be raised by a single BP parent. The courts are not set up to see into this problem. If you have lots of money, you can hire professional witnesses. Those without money just have to accept injustice and live with the horror of what our kids have to live with. I was lucky, I won custody of my daughter. I did not have money for expert witnesses. I didn't even know about BPD until after the custody battle was over. It was amazing; I had to be perfect at all times and mom got away with murder. I made one mistake that almost cost me my daughter; I left a VM for my ex that I gave up. The cards were stacked against me and I did, I gave up and I told my ex via vm. My lawyer called me the next day to inform me that, even if I chanced my mind, that was a death blow to me getting even joint custody. It was over! We lost all leverage. One moment of weakness on my part, after months of doing everything right and her acting crazy. Now it was over. It was about 2 days later that my ex was hospitalized for suicidal intentions. I called my lawyer and she said we were definitely back in the game. I hired her back (ya, I kinda fired her; my second stupid mistake) and we won full custody. Phew! The only reason I won is because mom became so crazy that she required hospitalization. All the other crazy shit she did meant nothing. We need a list for dad's that lost custody of their children to BP Xs. Of all the possible problem relationships with a BP, this has to be the worse. I am going to email Randi with this idea. > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > It's in > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. > We > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then > acting > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't > get her > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house > key, he > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > having > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. > But > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the > other > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > said, > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > having to > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they > have > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > calling > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > (which > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > repeatedly!) > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just > makes > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > now. > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > Mia > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Doug, good advice. We are working on something like that at the moment. I found a website a while ago called psychoexwife.com. It's chock full of great ideas for dealing with LC/NC with a psycho ex. Pdff, wow, what a horror story you're sharing! I'm so very glad you got custody. It's a shame that all over this country that fathers are discounted as parents. Mothers seem to be able to get away with just about anything, but to give the father custody, he must be absolutely perfect. It's an injustice, especially when dealing with BPD parents. As a child of a " nada " , yeah, I wish my dad had tried to get custody of me. And we are doing all we can for fiance's kids, but sadly the situation is more complicated than the normal complications of divorce due to the American Indian issue. Holly was kind enough to send me several awesome links on tribal law & lawyers. I've sent out feelers to some of them, hoping they can help us in some way. of course, now fiance's PEW (psycho ex wife) is being all nice. We know it's just the calm before the next storm. It changes nothing, only makes us question her sanity even further. Why the bloody hell do they do that? Reek havoc then suddenly become all sunny & warm? But like I said, the turn will happen again, we just don't know when. It's almost better to have to deal with her when she's nutso-off-the-deep-end than when she's being polite & friendly... because you never ever know when she's going to take that turn for the worst. But we're done walking on eggshells. Things must change & remain consistent no matter how she's behaving and fiance is finally getting that. I'm also having him read Stop Walking on Eggshells. I told him ages ago to read it, but now he's ready. I'm very glad for that. Mia > > > Doug, I totally agree with everything you say here. I feel bad for those > parents that have to fight to stay in there child's life and I grieve for > the children who have to be raised by a single BP parent. The courts are not > set up to see into this problem. If you have lots of money, you can hire > professional witnesses. Those without money just have to accept injustice > and live with the horror of what our kids have to live with. > > I was lucky, I won custody of my daughter. I did not have money for expert > witnesses. I didn't even know about BPD until after the custody battle was > over. It was amazing; I had to be perfect at all times and mom got away with > murder. I made one mistake that almost cost me my daughter; I left a VM for > my ex that I gave up. The cards were stacked against me and I did, I gave up > and I told my ex via vm. My lawyer called me the next day to inform me that, > even if I chanced my mind, that was a death blow to me getting even joint > custody. It was over! We lost all leverage. One moment of weakness on my > part, after months of doing everything right and her acting crazy. Now it > was over. > > It was about 2 days later that my ex was hospitalized for suicidal > intentions. I called my lawyer and she said we were definitely back in the > game. I hired her back (ya, I kinda fired her; my second stupid mistake) and > we won full custody. Phew! The only reason I won is because mom became so > crazy that she required hospitalization. All the other crazy shit she did > meant nothing. > > We need a list for dad's that lost custody of their children to BP Xs. Of > all the possible problem relationships with a BP, this has to be the worse. > I am going to email Randi with this idea. > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > > It's in > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have I. > > We > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and then > > acting > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she doesn't > > get her > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house > > key, he > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > > having > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, dammit. > > But > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until the > > other > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > > said, > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. It's > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > > having to > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact they > > have > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > > calling > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > > (which > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar association > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline just > > makes > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > > now. > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone and give her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her that she is to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If she is calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely for her, then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact order? > > > > It's in > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so have > > I. We > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and > > then > > > > acting > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she > > doesn't > > > > get her > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a house > > key, > > > > he > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his ex) > > > > having > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, > > dammit. > > > > But > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries until > > the > > > > other > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night that SD > > > > said, > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's been > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. > > It's > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced parents > > > > having to > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact > > they > > > > have > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will be > > > > calling > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law lawyer > > > > (which > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar > > association > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline > > just > > > > makes > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal boundaries > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Thanks . We're going to try that with a google voice number since it's free and we're broke lol. Mia > > > Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone and give > her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her that she is > to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If she is > calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely for her, > then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. > > Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact > order? > > > > > It's in > > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so > have > > > I. We > > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them and > > > then > > > > > acting > > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she > > > doesn't > > > > > get her > > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a > house > > > key, > > > > > he > > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her (his > ex) > > > > > having > > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means no, > > > dammit. > > > > > But > > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries > until > > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night > that SD > > > > > said, > > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately she's > been > > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged into. > > > It's > > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation > syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced > parents > > > > > having to > > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the contact > > > they > > > > > have > > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We will > be > > > > > calling > > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law > lawyer > > > > > (which > > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar > > > association > > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this borderline > > > just > > > > > makes > > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal > boundaries > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 If you need help with google voice, DH could probably help, if you run into any trouble, lol. > Thanks . We're going to try that with a google voice number since > it's free and we're broke lol. > > Mia > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:34 PM, afldancer > wrote: > > > > > > > Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone and > give > > her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her that she > is > > to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If she is > > calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely for > her, > > then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. > > > > Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited contact > > order? > > > > > > It's in > > > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, so > > have > > > > I. We > > > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them > and > > > > then > > > > > > acting > > > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if she > > > > doesn't > > > > > > get her > > > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get a > > house > > > > key, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her > (his > > ex) > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means > no, > > > > dammit. > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over boundaries > > until > > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night > > that SD > > > > > > said, > > > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately > she's > > been > > > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged > into. > > > > It's > > > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation > > syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced > > parents > > > > > > having to > > > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the > contact > > > > they > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We > will > > be > > > > > > calling > > > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal law > > lawyer > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar > > > > association > > > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this > borderline > > > > just > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal > > boundaries > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 lol thanks Holly! I got it figured out for myself as an alternate number to give people I don't feel 100% comfortable giving my real number too. So, I'd just have to set up another gmail account and another google voice. Just wish I had a handy-dandy smart phone because that would make it much easier. lol. Mia On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Holly Lipschultz < hollymichellebyers@...> wrote: > > > If you need help with google voice, DH could probably help, if you run into > any trouble, lol. > > > > > > Thanks . We're going to try that with a google voice number since > > it's free and we're broke lol. > > > > Mia > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:34 PM, afldancer > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone and > > give > > > her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her that > she > > is > > > to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If she is > > > calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely for > > her, > > > then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. > > > > > > Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited > contact > > > order? > > > > > > > It's in > > > > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, > so > > > have > > > > > I. We > > > > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking them > > and > > > > > then > > > > > > > acting > > > > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if > she > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > get her > > > > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to get > a > > > house > > > > > key, > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her > > (his > > > ex) > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No means > > no, > > > > > dammit. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over > boundaries > > > until > > > > > the > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last night > > > that SD > > > > > > > said, > > > > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately > > she's > > > been > > > > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged > > into. > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation > > > syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced > > > parents > > > > > > > having to > > > > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the > > contact > > > > > they > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. We > > will > > > be > > > > > > > calling > > > > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal > law > > > lawyer > > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county bar > > > > > association > > > > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this > > borderline > > > > > just > > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal > > > boundaries > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 lol, glad to hear that! I love Google Voice even though I don't have it *fully* set up on my phone--mostly because I haven't decided on a number yet, lol. All the good ones are taken! (the ones that say, READ or BOOKS or things like that because I'm a library nerd ) So....trying to figure that out still... > lol thanks Holly! I got it figured out for myself as an alternate number > to > give people I don't feel 100% comfortable giving my real number too. So, > I'd just have to set up another gmail account and another google voice. > Just wish I had a handy-dandy smart phone because that would make it much > easier. lol. > > Mia > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Holly Lipschultz < > hollymichellebyers@...> wrote: > > > > > > > If you need help with google voice, DH could probably help, if you run > into > > any trouble, lol. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks . We're going to try that with a google voice number since > > > it's free and we're broke lol. > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:34 PM, afldancer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone > and > > > give > > > > her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her that > > she > > > is > > > > to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If she > is > > > > calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely for > > > her, > > > > then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. > > > > > > > > Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited > > contact > > > > order? > > > > > > > > It's in > > > > > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her crap, > > so > > > > have > > > > > > I. We > > > > > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking > them > > > and > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > acting > > > > > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are > " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums if > > she > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > get her > > > > > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to > get > > a > > > > house > > > > > > key, > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want her > > > (his > > > > ex) > > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No > means > > > no, > > > > > > dammit. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over > > boundaries > > > > until > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last > night > > > > that SD > > > > > > > > said, > > > > > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . Lately > > > she's > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be dragged > > > into. > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation > > > > syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other divorced > > > > parents > > > > > > > > having to > > > > > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the > > > contact > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. > We > > > will > > > > be > > > > > > > > calling > > > > > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the tribal > > law > > > > lawyer > > > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county > bar > > > > > > association > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this > > > borderline > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need legal > > > > boundaries > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 lol, that would be awesome =) Maybe fiance & I should set up one just for his ex that spells out " F*** You " ? har har! Mia On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Holly Lipschultz < hollymichellebyers@...> wrote: > > > lol, glad to hear that! I love Google Voice even though I don't have it > *fully* set up on my phone--mostly because I haven't decided on a number > yet, lol. All the good ones are taken! (the ones that say, READ or BOOKS or > things like that because I'm a library nerd ) So....trying to figure that > out still... > > > > > > lol thanks Holly! I got it figured out for myself as an alternate number > > to > > give people I don't feel 100% comfortable giving my real number too. So, > > I'd just have to set up another gmail account and another google voice. > > Just wish I had a handy-dandy smart phone because that would make it much > > easier. lol. > > > > Mia > > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Holly Lipschultz < > > hollymichellebyers@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If you need help with google voice, DH could probably help, if you run > > into > > > any trouble, lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks . We're going to try that with a google voice number > since > > > > it's free and we're broke lol. > > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:34 PM, afldancer > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mia, regarding phone conversation: get a cheap pre-paid cell phone > > and > > > > give > > > > > her that number (then change your other phone number). Tell her > that > > > she > > > > is > > > > > to only call your " new " phone number in case of an emergency. If > she > > is > > > > > calling when it's not an emergency and you have that phone solely > for > > > > her, > > > > > then you can prove if she's calling it over and over again. > > > > > > > > > > Just one thought... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if there is a legal way to get a limited > > > contact > > > > > order? > > > > > > > > > It's in > > > > > > > > > > > regards to fiance's ex wife. He's had enough of her > crap, > > > so > > > > > have > > > > > > > I. We > > > > > > > > > > > keep putting up boundaries for her, she keeps breaking > > them > > > > and > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > acting > > > > > > > > > > > like it's no big deal or like our boundaries are > > " stupid " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's verbally abusive to him, throws temper tantrums > if > > > she > > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > get her > > > > > > > > > > > way, etc. She's back on a kick for my step daughter to > > get > > > a > > > > > house > > > > > > > key, > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > told her no (again) and explained that we do NOT want > her > > > > (his > > > > > ex) > > > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > > > > > 24/7 access to our home and she will not drop it. No > > means > > > > no, > > > > > > > dammit. > > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > > > in her world, no means push buttons and push over > > > boundaries > > > > > until > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > person gives in to her demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She's also dragged my SD into it. Said in a text last > > night > > > > > that SD > > > > > > > > > said, > > > > > > > > > > > " blaming it on mommy isn't a good enough reason " . > Lately > > > > she's > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > dragging SD into a lot of things she shouldn't be > dragged > > > > into. > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > > starting to feel an awful lot like parental alienation > > > > > syndrome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have simply had ENOUGH. I have heard of other > divorced > > > > > parents > > > > > > > > > having to > > > > > > > > > > > go to court to get stuff put in place in regards to the > > > > contact > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > with each other, but I'm not sure how to go about that. > > We > > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > calling > > > > > > > > > > > a lawyer very soon as this should not require the > tribal > > > law > > > > > lawyer > > > > > > > > > (which > > > > > > > > > > > we STILL cannot find one even after calling the county > > bar > > > > > > > association > > > > > > > > > > > repeatedly!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, need advice. Putting up boundaries with this > > > > borderline > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > > > > her more apt to try & bull-doze them down. We need > legal > > > > > boundaries > > > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any advice, > > > > > > > > > > > Mia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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