USING E & T for Atrophy or V pain (Momjohnna)

[Guest guest]

HI all, this isn't only about atrophy but I hope most of you read this as it may be your key too to get that V tissue healthy.

HI Momna..

Don't let the word atrophy throw you.. *smile* that can be reversed with the Estrace (estradiol) cream and definitely help with the urethra & even the bladder (just comes with age hon even if many aren't aware of it, it's more common than realized *grin* but hang in there and know that it can be reversed.

If the Estrace is burning you I'd try getting the estradiol compounded.

It burned & irritated me me like a son of a gun... but I endured it because I KNEW absolutely what it could do and the benefits and way back then I wasn't aware of compounding pharmacies, but you can get the estradiol made up (the main ingredient in Estrace) in a very mild base that won't irritate you. (and it's that burning feeling believe me it was like squatting over a blow torch.) and I'm assuming that's whats doing that to you...... so that's a thought.

Me? I stuck with the Estrace brand but I could only use it every 3rd or 4th night but eventually with time I was able to use it more often as the tissue got healthier and healthier, but that took a long time I can tell you (but I was in horrible condition too) today I'd get it (estradiol) compounded in a NY Heartbeat.

BUT let me throw a tip out as to how adding a testosterone (T) cream to your Estrace (E) cream can really turn things around much faster in my opinion (and Chelle I sure hope you consider adding it hon ( I don't think you have and I've wondered why not, but this is for anyone if they are using the Estrace cream for tissue health to really consider using both the E & T because T used topically helps increase the estrogen 'receptors'... *smile* (more about that in a bit) and why I hope all are reading this.

It was when I finally added the T to my Estrace topical regimen that put me over the top. The two work together synergistically with each other. (also by the way for anyone taking HRT replacement you need both)

I've sent on before several abstracts about how so many women with vulvar pain have defective or missing E & T 'receptors'... no doubt about it.

Just a few quotes as a reminder about that loss of E & T 'receptors'... Note this isn't about blood levels young or old, but the 'receptors' themselves that can be defective no matter the age so keep that in mind.

''STUDY DESIGN: Women with a diagnosis of vulvar vestibulitis syndrome had tissue samples taken for vulvar estrogen receptor-á expression and this was compared with a control group.

RESULTS: The study group showed a 'significant decrease' in estrogen receptor expression, and 50% of the samples did not exhibit 'any' E receptor expression.''

So that one's on Estrogen receptors...

ANOTHER: On Testosterone receptors...

''Of 3,000 women with female sexual dysfunction (FSD) evaluated by Dr. Munarriz and colleagues, 13% had dyspareunia, 66% had physical findings of vulvar vestibulitis syndrome (VVS), 'and' 83% had concomitant androgen deficiency.

"What we found is that the specimens from women who had vestibulitis had significant inflammation, squamous metaplasia, and were completely 'depleted' of androgen receptors — while the controls had no inflammation, and normal staining for androgens," noted Dr. Munarriz. ...........We believe that there's another subgroup of women, particularly young women, who as a consequence of being on the birth control pill have very low androgen or testosterone levels.

So you can see in those two short quotes how 50% showed a lack of Estrogen receptors and all the specimens from women with vestibulitis were 'completely depleted of the Androgen ''receptors'' E & T receptors, and keep in mind if the receptors aren't working (or there) they cannot do their job.

Think of 'receptors' as a lock & key and they need the correct 'key' to open them and to make them active or work... but other 'keys', especially like the progestins in birth control, or those topical Progesterone creams, or soy or even yeast can get in that 'lock' as an 'almost' fit to 'block' them or 'bind' up those E & T locks (receptors) instead, so they aren't activated and we're depleted of the benefits of those hormones and they become non functional... (Similiar to what Tamoxifen does for those with breast cancer.. it 'blocks' those receptors to inactivate a hormone)

Sometimes those 'receptors' are lost for who knows what reason (maybe inflammation?) or lessened as one goes into menopause as well, but it seems it can be any age, young or old, (21-78 ages in the next abstract) but they can/may be restored from an external topical source of T.

So keep those two thoughts in mind above about how the E & T receptors are less or not there in V pain...as I'm going to add an abstract here and hope this'll make some sense as it tells 'me' how adding the T restored them (also forgive my notes) grin* but I do that for myself and I often send them out privately so I hope that doesn't bother people... where you'll see how by adding the T.... it increases those E receptors and why I've no doubt in 'my' case it completely made me well once I added it, (tho I definitely make sure I do my minimal maintenance of once or twice a week of 'both' the E & T creams (just a small dab of both) to keep me well.

Topical T. increases the number of E. Receptors.

Receptor modifications in vulvar dystrophies before and after treatment with topical hormones:

Methods: We studied 115 vulvar specimens obtained from 75 consenting women ranging from 21 to 78 years of age.

Of the patients,

12 had histologically normal vulvar skin,

45 had vulvar dystrophies that were not treated by topical steroid therapy,

28 patients had vulvar dystrophies that were treated by 'testosterone propionate (TP)' 2%,

12 patients had vulvar dystrophies that were treated by 'progesterone' in hydroalcoholic gel and,

18 patients had vulvar malignant tumors.

For immunohistochemical analysis we also considered 25 cases of vulvar dystrophies:

11 cases of squamous hyperplasia (SH) and

14 cases of lichen sclerosus (LS)

Among these 25 cases, 15 (5 SH and 10 LS) were treated with TP 2%. (testosterone propionate)

Results: After treatment of the vulvar dystrophies with progesterone, the positivity of ERs (estrogen receptors) ‘’decreased’’ (58.3% vs. 77.8%).

COMMENT by Dee*

''Meaning to me that progesterone was a negative showing the E receptors decreased with progesterone, and note it says 'progesterone' let alone the synthetic 'progestins' which are even worse and they already know that women with V pain have reduced or NO estrogen receptors.. so it makes sense why one would NOT want to use a progesterone since it would decrease the ERs (estrogen receptors) even more.''

After treatment of the vulvar dystrophies with TP 2% (testosterone) , the positivity of PRs (progesterone receptors) significantly 'decreased' (14.3% vs. 68.9%) whereas after treatment with ‘progesterone’ the positivity of PRs (progesterone receptors) increased (83.3%).

''COMMENT" by Dee: I would 'want' the Progesterone receptors reduced (which the T did)... and it shows that when using the P... the P receptors increased, not something "I" want because P blocks the working effect of the E & T ''receptors'' (and those with V pain already have reduced 'receptors') , so the topical T was very beneficial in my opinion and another reason why I am so against P (and that's progesterone or progestins) and that's just 'one' reason and don't forget that P is the main component in birth control. (that's another long story *sigh*)''

After treatment with TP 2 %, (testosterone propionate) we observed an 'increase' of immunohistochemical ‘’positivity for ERs’’ (estrogen receptors) even in cases that were negative before treatment and a lack of PRs (progesterone receptors) even in cases that were positive before treatment.

Conclusions:

These data demonstrate the efficacy of androgen therapy with TP 2% in vulvar dystrophies with increased 'trophism' due to the increase of ERs.

*COMMENT* by Dee, 'trophism' is defined as 'nourishment' just as a-trophism (atrophy) is the opposite, not fed and withering away. And shows how T nourishes the tissue but.... it's because of the increased E receptors when using it. And why in 'my opinion' using both the E & T was my own miracle for full restoration of the V. tissue.

More thoughts:

What that means to me is when they added the Topical Testosterone.... it increased (showed that positivity) the Estrogen receptors. Even in women who were lacking them previously. Also note that adding the T, showed a lack or diminishing of the progesterone ones... And P is what blocks the others and ones "I" would 'want' reduced.

Just me and my thoughts. hugs to all, and I hope it might help someone else out there and hope it wasn't too confusing.

Dee ~