Re: BP abuse and the self

[Guest guest]

>

>

> However,most of us who have been raised by a BP parent do not have a solid

identity, because we were never allowed to develop it. Therefore, we take BP

abuse personal and become emotionally unwell when we encounter BP abuse.

>

I'd like to add too that if you took a person raised by normal parents and then

had those parents become possessed and say horrifying hurtful things to them -

you better believe they'd be hurt. Part of the power of the BPD parent is that

they are your PARENT. Their voices out of all the voices in the world are

genetically designed to penetrate to the core. Still I'm sure the person with

parents who were healthy when they were young would still fare better than us

KO's who start out with the deranged parenting.

Eliza

[Guest guest]

eliza92, good point. When a normal parent that gets Alzheimer, their children

can withstand their abusiveness, not only because they understand it is a

disease, but also because they were allowed to develop a solid identity in

childhood.

We KOs also know that our BP parent has a disease, but we are unable to

withstand the abuse because we have not yet developed a solid identity.

Therefore, NC is necessary while we develop. This takes time. By the time we

are finally whole, it is hard to be open to LC, because we are still afraid of

the shame and humiliation of the past. I believe that it is ok to maintain NC

for as long as you want. However, I am also starting to wonder if, for those of

us that have done the work to heal, if there is greater benefit to us to let go

of NC and become open to the possibility of LC.

Not saying I will; just thinking out loud. It would be hard. Would the benefit

be worth the struggle. I can say that my work with my step-mother has been

rewarding. I am glad for the chance to make peace with her. However, my mother

is a whole entirely different level of BP abuse and dysfunction. Again, just

thinking out loud.

> >

> >

> > However,most of us who have been raised by a BP parent do not have a solid

identity, because we were never allowed to develop it. Therefore, we take BP

abuse personal and become emotionally unwell when we encounter BP abuse.

> >

>

> I'd like to add too that if you took a person raised by normal parents and

then had those parents become possessed and say horrifying hurtful things to

them - you better believe they'd be hurt. Part of the power of the BPD parent

is that they are your PARENT. Their voices out of all the voices in the world

are genetically designed to penetrate to the core. Still I'm sure the person

with parents who were healthy when they were young would still fare better than

us KO's who start out with the deranged parenting.

>

> Eliza

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Not saying I will; just thinking out loud. It would be hard. Would the

benefit be worth the struggle. I can say that my work with my step-mother has

been rewarding. I am glad for the chance to make peace with her. However, my

mother is a whole entirely different level of BP abuse and dysfunction. Again,

just thinking out loud.

>

Yeah, I could see it that being able to be in contact but on your terms in a way

that keeps you safe but is real and honest would be very empowering and healing.

I'm glad this is working for you with your step-mother. I'd think that a

certain minimum level of mental health would have to be there though for the

BPD.

Eliza

[Guest guest]

I disagree, I don't think my mother triggers me because of MY identity

issue. She triggers me because she is a sadistic BPD Narc witch, and she

will not rest until she upsets me, because for whatever reason, that makes

her feel good.

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 9:58 PM, eliza92@... <

eliza92@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

>

> >

> > Not saying I will; just thinking out loud. It would be hard. Would the

> benefit be worth the struggle. I can say that my work with my step-mother

> has been rewarding. I am glad for the chance to make peace with her.

> However, my mother is a whole entirely different level of BP abuse and

> dysfunction. Again, just thinking out loud.

> >

>

> Yeah, I could see it that being able to be in contact but on your terms in

> a way that keeps you safe but is real and honest would be very empowering

> and healing. I'm glad this is working for you with your step-mother. I'd

> think that a certain minimum level of mental health would have to be there

> though for the BPDM

>

> Eliza

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so, so sorry to all who misunderstood what I was trying to convey in that

post. I am also sorry if I misunderstood the original intentions of the

statement.

I whole-heartedly agree with you, pdff_usa, that sometimes NC is the only and/or

best strategy, and did not mean to suggest otherwise. " Choosing not to play the

game " can be, sometimes must be, NC - it all depends on the unique people,

needs, and circumstances.

What I was trying to say was that we do ourselves a disservice when we limit our

beliefs to thinking only two options are " either/or " , us or them. Believing we

have other options, doesn't necessarily mean we can have a relationship with our

BPDs. It just means learning that self-preservation doesn't truly have to

require self-sacrifice.

Putting it in personal terms, I used to feel trapped into that choice myself -

and then I realized (after many years of struggle and therapy) that what felt

like it would be sacrifice of something I wanted and needed (e.g., to maintain

my relationship with my mother) was actually the letting go of an illusion

(e.g., that, if I just could get through to her somehow and wait patiently

enough, my mother would eventually provide the mothering I'd needed and been

denied).

Holding onto the illusion was keeping me from really launching into adulthood,

into full selfhood. Giving up the illusion involved real grief (still being

worked through), but it turned out not to be the sacrifice I'd feared. For me,

life finally began to get better.

Because I feel misunderstood by your first paragraph, please allow me to clarify

that I too had no buffer in childhood. I work with my PTSD daily, and understand

the struggle you describe with intimate empathy.

I think, as KOs, we sometimes have a hard time seeing our options for what they

truly are.

We were raised by people who saw the world in black and white, either/or terms -

of course we'd tend to make the same assumptions. As KOs, it helps to understand

BPD thinking - not necessarily to try to 'fix' that relationship, but to figure

out where your own land mines are buried, and to begin to see all the

possibilities you might be missing because you were raised wearing 'BDP-coloured

glasses'.

So I think we have to question our own assumptions. We grow up with lots of

habits that do a disservice to our true selves, the selves we have parent now,

on our own, as adults.

Congratulations on your good, hard work. I wish you all great luck and continued

success.

> >

> > I hear you both, and feel the same way so often --- but I think its

important to remind ourselves that, in reality, the choice they offer us is not

the only choice we have.

> >

> > We actually only have to chose between self-preservation and self-sacrifice

if we choose to playing their game, by their rules. (And honestly, in their

heart of hearts, somewhere deep below the surface - I don't think they like the

game or the rules any better than we do.)

> >

> > Please understand I know the feeling of " either/or " is real, for you and for

me, and I don't want to belittle the feelings. Your feelings matter. They

deserve and need gentle, loving attendance.

> >

> > But the other reality is that we have other options. We have to remember to

keep looking for them when we can't see them - or else we are stuck in their

trap, the same trap they are stuck in. The toxicity is staying stuck in their

traps.

> >

> > Don't get stuck in her trap and don't play by her rules. You have the wisdom

and the wholeness to see its a 'lose-lose' game. With practice and awareness,

you can outwit the trap. You can chose not to play the game.

> >

> > And you are so absolutely right.

> > It is not fair.

>

[Guest guest]

My choice to go No Contact was the last-ditch solution, the only solution left

available to me after literally decades of trying to maintain a relationship

with my mother. It was not an easy choice. It was not made in haste, and it

broke my heart to have to do it. But I had to choose my own health over my

desire to stay in contact with nada. My blood pressure and general level of

health have improved somewhat over the last three years, as a result.

I hope that those who like myself have had to make that difficult choice will

not feel shamed or inadequate for doing so, and will not continue to torment

themselves with guilt or doubt, wondering if they are at fault for not trying

hard enough or long enough or for not trying every possible means of maintaining

a relationship with a personality-disordered parent.

We each have to find our own path to healing. We each have to find what we can

live with, what we can tolerate, what works for us as individuals.

In some cases, No Contact (either temporary NC or permanent NC) *is* that path

to peace and healing and recovery.

Sharing what has worked for you is great, its really good to hear what is

working or what isn't working for each member.

But your post still is coming across to me like you are being judgmental and

saying that No Contact isn't an acceptable solution; you have compared it to bpd

behavior.

If No Contact is not acceptable to you personally, that's fine, because each of

us must decide what works for us, but when you say things like " We were raised

by people who saw the world in black and white, either/or terms - of course we'd

tend to make the same assumptions. ... So I think we have to question our own

assumptions " that conveys to me that you consider that my choice to go No

Contact is acting like someone with bpd, and I need to reconsider my black and

white thinking.

Your " of course " (within your quote, above) is rather presumptive and

overgeneralizing as well; I don't think in black and white terms, and it seems

to me that most of the members here do not think in black and white terms

either, so that also sounds invalidating and unsupportive to me.

If maintaining contact works for you, that's great. That's what counts: finding

something that works for you. Please allow me to utilize what works for me

without saying that I need to reevaluate my choice because No Contact is a

" black and white " or borderline pd behavior.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I hear you both, and feel the same way so often --- but I think its

important to remind ourselves that, in reality, the choice they offer us is not

the only choice we have.

> > >

> > > We actually only have to chose between self-preservation and

self-sacrifice if we choose to playing their game, by their rules. (And

honestly, in their heart of hearts, somewhere deep below the surface - I don't

think they like the game or the rules any better than we do.)

> > >

> > > Please understand I know the feeling of " either/or " is real, for you and

for me, and I don't want to belittle the feelings. Your feelings matter. They

deserve and need gentle, loving attendance.

> > >

> > > But the other reality is that we have other options. We have to remember

to keep looking for them when we can't see them - or else we are stuck in their

trap, the same trap they are stuck in. The toxicity is staying stuck in their

traps.

> > >

> > > Don't get stuck in her trap and don't play by her rules. You have the

wisdom and the wholeness to see its a 'lose-lose' game. With practice and

awareness, you can outwit the trap. You can chose not to play the game.

> > >

> > > And you are so absolutely right.

> > > It is not fair.

> >

>