Re: When was your 'This isn't normal' moment?--Sunspot

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunspot,

My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had a

brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection was also

his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when we first

started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and one of his

ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up, he set me

up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some 'crazy' out of

control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely public web

postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very devastating

to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs

to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising

above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a few,

pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in themselves, they

will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for others,

lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and desirability

(that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

--Charlotte

[Guest guest]

Yes, indeed. Your observation just reinforces to me that there are probably way

too many children are in the care of mothers who are thinking and behaving in

this very disordered and toxic way, who are being damaged. I wish there was

more public education RE how to recognize the signs of emotional abuse in

children, and more accessible help provided to children, say, in the form of

more school counselors who are trained and empowered to investigate when a child

reports that he or she is being abused at home.

-Annie

>

> Dear Sunspot,

>

> My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had a

brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection was also

his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when we first

started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and one of his

ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up, he set me

up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some 'crazy' out of

control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely public web

postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very devastating

to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs

to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising

above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

>

> I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a few,

pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in themselves, they

will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for others,

lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and desirability

(that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

>

> --Charlotte

>

[Guest guest]

Oh and let's not forget the dishwasher Annie! It was very important to her that

I be perceived ineffectual with the *dishwasher...

> >

> > Dear Sunspot,

> >

> > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had a

brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection was also

his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when we first

started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and one of his

ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up, he set me

up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some 'crazy' out of

control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely public web

postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very devastating

to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs

to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising

above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

> >

> > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a

few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in themselves,

they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> >

> > --Charlotte

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of what

constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a social

worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at work,

however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in mental

health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect my

family instead.

I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people. But,

that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that maybe,

someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over the

years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever she

was.

This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying up

all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep ! I'm

not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and grieving,

I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain what

is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted her to

quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually got

over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend it...,)

in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to receive, for

a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still got

beaten, *and* threw up.

I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with *me*,

until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to people

who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint and

then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear my Dads

car in the driveway.

Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that let me

know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong she would

imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite for

having seen her vulnerabilities.

I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

(which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy. Even

though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

_______________, then you might be a Borderline.

Again, lets think about t-shirts

In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I might

have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a qualified art

therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of the PD,

is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs, What do

you folks think?

And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected onto

me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease ridden,

wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only to be

wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . . . .

..?

My Best to All, Sunspot

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 1:58 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Yes, indeed. Your observation just reinforces to me that there are probably

> way too many children are in the care of mothers who are thinking and

> behaving in this very disordered and toxic way, who are being damaged. I

> wish there was more public education RE how to recognize the signs of

> emotional abuse in children, and more accessible help provided to children,

> say, in the form of more school counselors who are trained and empowered to

> investigate when a child reports that he or she is being abused at home.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Dear Sunspot,

> >

> > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had

> a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection

> was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point,

> when we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that his

> ex-wife and one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then

> when we broke up, he set me up to try his very very best to project onto me

> that I was some 'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at

> a few completely public web postings of his and sending him a few text

> messages. It was so very devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I can't

> imagine having a lifelong nada who needs to project that onto you! I'm so,

> so sorry and commend you highly for rising above and believing in your own

> grasp of reality.

> >

> > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a

> few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in

> themselves, they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

> others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

> desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> >

> > --Charlotte

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of what

constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a

socialworker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at

work, however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in

mental health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect

my family instead.

I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people. But,

that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that maybe,

someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over the

years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever she

was.

This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying up

all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep ! I'm

not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and grieving,

I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain what

is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions. I wanted to please, I

wanted to be the good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*.

I wanted her to quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I wanted to die.

I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend it...,)

in anticipation of a beating I was about to receive, I didn't die, and still

got beaten.

I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with *me*,

until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to people

who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint and

then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor. I would sit with her and

sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me, until she would push me away,

or if I was really lucky, I would hear my Dads car in the driveway.

Sometimes she could be up and on her feet almost as though nothing was

wrong, just giving me " the look " that let me know to keep my mouth shut, and

if my Dad would ask what was wrong she would imply I was " pulling an

attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite for

having seen her vulnerabilities.

Childhood was one long nightmare, and yet, I love her. I don't

In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words, I might have been

able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a qualified art

therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of the PD,

art may be a really good avenue for KOs.

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 1:58 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> Yes, indeed. Your observation just reinforces to me that there are probably

> way too many children are in the care of mothers who are thinking and

> behaving in this very disordered and toxic way, who are being damaged. I

> wish there was more public education RE how to recognize the signs of

> emotional abuse in children, and more accessible help provided to children,

> say, in the form of more school counselors who are trained and empowered to

> investigate when a child reports that he or she is being abused at home.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Dear Sunspot,

> >

> > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had

> a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection

> was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point,

> when we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that his

> ex-wife and one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then

> when we broke up, he set me up to try his very very best to project onto me

> that I was some 'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at

> a few completely public web postings of his and sending him a few text

> messages. It was so very devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I can't

> imagine having a lifelong nada who needs to project that onto you! I'm so,

> so sorry and commend you highly for rising above and believing in your own

> grasp of reality.

> >

> > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a

> few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in

> themselves, they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

> others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

> desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> >

> > --Charlotte

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That will never cease to amaze me, how many of the nadas posted about here have

not only this bizarre, intense belief that nada is the only one who can load it

" the right way " , what amazes me even more is nada's overpowering need to

denigrate, shame, humiliate or otherwise rip into her child for " not loading the

dishwasher the right way. "

It just freaking makes no freaking sense, I don't think I will ever understand

this behavior and why it should focus on... the dishwasher.

(Well, my nada was that way about any household chore. She was rabidly

obsessive, controlling and punitive if we didn't do any typical chore " the right

way. " And her own mother is NOT like this at all, nor her father. They liked a

neat and tidy home, but my grandparents were never into freaking screaming at

people about it or punishing them about it. NOBODY in my nada's entire extended

foo behaves anything like her, she's the only one with a pd in her family, on

both sides.)

Nada - The Supreme High Priestess of the Sacred Dishwasher.

Just another manifestation of how profound this mental illness is, I guess.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Dear Sunspot,

> > >

> > > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently had

a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection was

also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when we

first started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and one

of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up, he

set me up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some 'crazy'

out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely public web

postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very devastating

to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs

to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising

above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

> > >

> > > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have a

few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in themselves,

they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> > > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> > >

> > > --Charlotte

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Sunspot)))))

It has to be pretty damned severe and chronic abuse for a little 7-year-old to

want to try and kill herself. Its virtually unheard of for such a young child

to prefer death and actually make a suicide attempt, but I can certainly

understand the terror that a 7 year old would feel over the threat of an

impending severe punishment/beating.

Thats nothing less than sadistic psychological torture, like describing to a

condemned prisoner exactly how they will be slowly put to death over a period of

days, to make their suffering last longer.

Its much more common for small children to try and run away from an abusive or

negligent home. I tried once, in a kind of indirect way. I hid myself when we

were visiting a relative and I didn't come when she called me. I think I was

about 4 at the time. I was hoping my nada would just go away and leave me

there with my gramma, my dad's mother. My little Sister on the other hand

tried to literally run away, little suitcase in hand, several times at about the

age of 7 or 8. I'm so sorry you weren't rescued, no child deserves the kind of

treatment you describe. You must have a core of steel to have survived at all.

-Annie

>

> Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

>

> I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of what

> constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

>

> There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a social

> worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at work,

> however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in mental

> health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect my

> family instead.

>

> I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

> sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people. But,

> that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that maybe,

> someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

>

> I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over the

> years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever she

> was.

>

> This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

> was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

> I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

> arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying up

> all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep ! I'm

> not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and grieving,

> I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain what

> is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

>

> But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

> whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

> good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

> good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted her to

> quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually got

> over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

>

> I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

> drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend it...,)

> in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to receive, for

> a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still got

> beaten, *and* threw up.

>

> I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with *me*,

> until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

> dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to people

> who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint and

> then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

> I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

> until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear my Dads

> car in the driveway.

> Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

> almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that let me

> know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong she would

> imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

> I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

> punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite for

> having seen her vulnerabilities.

>

> I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

> (which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy. Even

> though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

> camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

>

> I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

> you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

> I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

> _______________, then you might be a Borderline.

> Again, lets think about t-shirts

>

>

>

>

> In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I might

> have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a qualified art

> therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of the PD,

> is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs, What do

> you folks think?

>

>

> And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected onto

> me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease ridden,

> wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only to be

> wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . . . .

> .?

>

> My Best to All, Sunspot

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the hugs Annie.

I don't know that at 7, I actually understood the full concept of

death, I know for a fact, tho, that I was terrified beyond words and hope,

and that my mother, along with a friend of hers, who was staying with us

during her divorce, hated me, egged each other on, an that I was terrified

beyond reason . . .

I too planned and practiced running away for most of my childhood. I

think the thing that saved me, was being sent to stay with family members

summers, and if I became too ill. These were wonderful, loving gentle

people, who, if a little unplugged, were at least kindly and loved me. I was

allowed to create and learn without micro-inspection, or even much comment,

unless I sought it out, which was good, since most of my childhood play

centered around building means of escape.

I still have some trouble trusting people, feeling safe, and sleeping at

night. But I'm working on it.

May we all find respite, may we all find peace

Best Regards, Sunspot

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:57 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> (((((Sunspot)))))

>

> It has to be pretty damned severe and chronic abuse for a little 7-year-old

> to want to try and kill herself. Its virtually unheard of for such a young

> child to prefer death and actually make a suicide attempt, but I can

> certainly understand the terror that a 7 year old would feel over the threat

> of an impending severe punishment/beating.

>

> Thats nothing less than sadistic psychological torture, like describing to

> a condemned prisoner exactly how they will be slowly put to death over a

> period of days, to make their suffering last longer.

>

> Its much more common for small children to try and run away from an abusive

> or negligent home. I tried once, in a kind of indirect way. I hid myself

> when we were visiting a relative and I didn't come when she called me. I

> think I was about 4 at the time. I was hoping my nada would just go away and

> leave me there with my gramma, my dad's mother. My little Sister on the

> other hand tried to literally run away, little suitcase in hand, several

> times at about the age of 7 or 8. I'm so sorry you weren't rescued, no child

> deserves the kind of treatment you describe. You must have a core of steel

> to have survived at all.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

> >

> > I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of what

> > constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

> >

> > There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a social

> > worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at

> work,

> > however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in mental

> > health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect my

> > family instead.

> >

> > I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

> > sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people.

> But,

> > that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that

> maybe,

> > someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

> >

> > I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over the

> > years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever

> she

> > was.

> >

> > This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

> > was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

> > I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

> > arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying up

> > all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep !

> I'm

> > not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and

> grieving,

> > I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain

> what

> > is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

> >

> > But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

> > whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

> > good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

> > good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted her

> to

> > quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually got

> > over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

> >

> > I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

> > drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend it...,)

> > in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to receive,

> for

> > a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still got

> > beaten, *and* threw up.

> >

> > I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with

> *me*,

> > until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

> > dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to

> people

> > who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint

> and

> > then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

> > I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

> > until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear my

> Dads

> > car in the driveway.

> > Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

> > almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that let me

> > know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong she

> would

> > imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

> > I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

> > punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite for

> > having seen her vulnerabilities.

> >

> > I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

> > (which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy. Even

> > though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

> > camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

> >

> > I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

> > you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

> > I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

> > _______________, then you might be a Borderline.

> > Again, lets think about t-shirts

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I might

> > have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a qualified

> art

> > therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of the

> PD,

> > is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs, What do

> > you folks think?

> >

> >

> > And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected

> onto

> > me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease ridden,

> > wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only to be

> > wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . . . .

> > .?

> >

> > My Best to All, Sunspot

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey folks, may I ask how many of you had slutty sexual behavior assigned to

you by your nada? I was called a slut many times. And if I went somewhere

with boys, it was a huge deal to nada. And she defeminized me to the point

that I nearly was a boy. . .

But then later during my divorce the issue came up again. I don't know why,

but I guess they saw marriage as " safe " even if I was miserable and

singlehood meant sluttieness. That ended up being the end. I wasn't going to

listen to her call me names and say she is worried I might be a slut during

the most difficult time in my life.

Anyway, I'd love thoughts. My T said it was less a projection of her fear of

her own inner slut, and more just the worst and most destructive thing she

could think of to say. That she was hell bent on destroying me.

I'd love to explore this topic more. Thanks, gs

> Thanks for the hugs Annie.

>

> I don't know that at 7, I actually understood the full concept of

> death, I know for a fact, tho, that I was terrified beyond words and hope,

> and that my mother, along with a friend of hers, who was staying with us

> during her divorce, hated me, egged each other on, an that I was terrified

> beyond reason . . .

>

> I too planned and practiced running away for most of my childhood. I

> think the thing that saved me, was being sent to stay with family members

> summers, and if I became too ill. These were wonderful, loving gentle

> people, who, if a little unplugged, were at least kindly and loved me. I

> was

> allowed to create and learn without micro-inspection, or even much comment,

> unless I sought it out, which was good, since most of my childhood play

> centered around building means of escape.

>

> I still have some trouble trusting people, feeling safe, and sleeping at

> night. But I'm working on it.

>

> May we all find respite, may we all find peace

>

> Best Regards, Sunspot

>

>

>

>

> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:57 PM, anuria67854 <anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > (((((Sunspot)))))

> >

> > It has to be pretty damned severe and chronic abuse for a little

> 7-year-old

> > to want to try and kill herself. Its virtually unheard of for such a

> young

> > child to prefer death and actually make a suicide attempt, but I can

> > certainly understand the terror that a 7 year old would feel over the

> threat

> > of an impending severe punishment/beating.

> >

> > Thats nothing less than sadistic psychological torture, like describing

> to

> > a condemned prisoner exactly how they will be slowly put to death over a

> > period of days, to make their suffering last longer.

> >

> > Its much more common for small children to try and run away from an

> abusive

> > or negligent home. I tried once, in a kind of indirect way. I hid myself

> > when we were visiting a relative and I didn't come when she called me. I

> > think I was about 4 at the time. I was hoping my nada would just go away

> and

> > leave me there with my gramma, my dad's mother. My little Sister on the

> > other hand tried to literally run away, little suitcase in hand, several

> > times at about the age of 7 or 8. I'm so sorry you weren't rescued, no

> child

> > deserves the kind of treatment you describe. You must have a core of

> steel

> > to have survived at all.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

> > >

> > > I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of

> what

> > > constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

> > >

> > > There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a

> social

> > > worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at

> > work,

> > > however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in

> mental

> > > health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect my

> > > family instead.

> > >

> > > I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

> > > sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people.

> > But,

> > > that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that

> > maybe,

> > > someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

> > >

> > > I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over

> the

> > > years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever

> > she

> > > was.

> > >

> > > This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

> > > was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

> > > I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

> > > arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying

> up

> > > all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep !

> > I'm

> > > not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and

> > grieving,

> > > I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain

> > what

> > > is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

> > >

> > > But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

> > > whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

> > > good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

> > > good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted her

> > to

> > > quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually

> got

> > > over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

> > >

> > > I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

> > > drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend

> it...,)

> > > in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to receive,

> > for

> > > a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still

> got

> > > beaten, *and* threw up.

> > >

> > > I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with

> > *me*,

> > > until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

> > > dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to

> > people

> > > who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint

> > and

> > > then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

> > > I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

> > > until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear my

> > Dads

> > > car in the driveway.

> > > Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

> > > almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that let

> me

> > > know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong she

> > would

> > > imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

> > > I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

> > > punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite

> for

> > > having seen her vulnerabilities.

> > >

> > > I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

> > > (which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy.

> Even

> > > though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

> > > camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

> > >

> > > I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

> > > you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

> > > I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

> > > _______________, then you might be a Borderline.

> > > Again, lets think about t-shirts

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I might

> > > have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a

> qualified

> > art

> > > therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of

> the

> > PD,

> > > is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs, What

> do

> > > you folks think?

> > >

> > >

> > > And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected

> > onto

> > > me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease ridden,

> > > wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only to

> be

> > > wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . . .

> .

> > > .?

> > >

> > > My Best to All, Sunspot

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sigh. Here I am again, reading replies about one topic or another, thinking,

" yeah, but.... " I think there is a " happy medium " of behavior between our

nutty, over-the-top OCD Nadas and our slovenly, hoarding, roach-ridden Nadas.

And in my own case, my Nada was both.

At one point, when she was " teaching " me to clean up the kitchen (I was in very

early elementary school), the nightly cleanup routine included wiping down the

cabinet fronts (not just the spots around the handles - the entire cabinet

fronts) and wiping the top of the refrigerator - so I would stand on a chair and

wipe it down. Once I was grown and in my own house, I dropped most of those

" requirements " and just did what was required to keep the kitchen (and the rest

of the house) habitable. Until my in-laws announced they were coming for a

visit, that is. Then I went into full Nada-ridden overdrive. My husband

happened to walk in while I was removing all the stuff from the top of the

refrigerator so I could wipe it down and asked me what on earth I was doing. I

told him I wanted the kitchen clean when his mother arrived - and he pointed out

that his mom was only 5'6 " tall, and couldn't see the top of the refrigerator...

So my Nada instilled a sense of anxiety about cleaning, with lots of rules and

regs about how things 'had' to be done. So imagine my surprise in the last few

decades to see her turn into a hoarder, living in filth and clutter, coming up

with ridiculous excuses why she didn't make the slightest effort to keep her

apartment safe or livable. As always, she swings between extremes, and spends

very little time in the " happy middle. "

And that brings me to my point about the dishwasher. I saw an episode of

" Martha " where 'ol Martha brought in an " expert " who demonstrated the

proper way to load the dishwasher. (Can you even get a job doing that? Being a

dishwasher-loading expert?). The lady was very adamant that her way was the

best way. That was a bit much. However, my husband and son are of the " throw

it in there any old way " school, meaning that I find bowls right-side up, full

of water, and plates stacked backwards, and - oh, heck, you get the idea. So -

all I'm saying is, those racks are made to hold dishes for optimum contact with

the water and detergent. It's pretty obvious that you have to stack the stuff

so it will get clean, not block the washer arm, and not wind up full of water

after the cycle is over. It doesn't take lessons, but two grown men ought to be

able to figure it out. So sometimes I find myself re-stacking the dirty dishes

and wondering how they can be so obtuse. I don't think I'm being crazy when

that happens. Their opinions may differ.

Somewhere between the two extremes of disorder (or the extreme of just being too

bone lazy to load the stuff so it will get clean), is the happy medium of

hitting the housework with a lick and a promise so nobody gets botulism and you

can walk through the house without a snowshovel to clear a path.

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunspot,

> > > >

> > > > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently

had a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection

was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when

we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and

one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up,

he set me up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some

'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely

public web postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very

devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada

who needs to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for

rising above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

> > > >

> > > > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will have

a few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in themselves,

they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > > > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > > > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some of

> > > > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> > > >

> > > > --Charlotte

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You've nailed the dynamic that is at the heart of this particular aspect of

personality disorder: extremism.

Its about control, mostly, even the hoarding and the filth. It seems odd that

extreme hyper-cleanliness rigid order (including raging over how the dishes are

loaded) can be related to living in garbage encrusted, vermin-swarming filth,

but its the opposite sides of the same coin.

You are right, there is a happy, sane, rational medium. There is such a thing

as " clean enough " or " organized enough " to avoid attracting roaches and other

vermin, clean enough to make having friends over for a visit a pleasant

experience for all involved, without going to the extreme end of running around

after people with a vacuum cleaner or hyperventilating over something spilled on

the carpet.

I think the happy, sane, rational medium is what eludes those with personality

disorder because of their " black and white " or " all or nothing " thinking.

And I agree with you that yes, just a little common sense is all that's

necessary when loading a dishwasher. That's all. And even if its not perfect

*its no big deal* and does not warrant having a hysterical fit over. My nada

had no sense of what an appropriate reaction was. A minor mistake got the same

screaming rage as a really major one.

(Besides, depending on the number and variety of objects placed in the

dishwasher, including pots, pans and skillets, there *can't* be only one right

way to load it. The entire premise is just insane, and inane, in my opinion.)

My nada was oblivious to the fact that her hyper-controlling behavior, the

micro-management, the constant low-grade criticism and negativity and explosive

raging over minor mistakes/minor disagreements was destroying her kids' sense of

self worth and turning us into jittery, neurotic messes.

No perspective, no sense of what is an appropriate response, no empathy, no

compassion. All or nothing. Over-reacting to small annoyances. Road rage.

Extremism. Perfectionism, hyper-clean and hyper-organized, having ridiculously

high standards that are virtually impossible to achieve (unrealistic

expectations) .... and on the other side of the coin, hermit-like behavior,

paranoia, delusional thinking, hoarding, never cleaning, living in filth,

avoiding contact with other people out of suspicion or fear, preventing the

children from having normal friendships, neglecting the children's needs for

proper nutrition, proper medical care, proper clothing, proper supervision,

etc...

Extremism.

All of these are in my opinion big red waving flag behaviors in a parent that

indicate mental disorder, and that the kids are very likely being mistreated and

suffering psychological damage.

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sunspot,

> > > > >

> > > > > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I recently

had a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to projection

was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a point, when

we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that his ex-wife and

one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him. Then when we broke up,

he set me up to try his very very best to project onto me that I was some

'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply looking at a few completely

public web postings of his and sending him a few text messages. It was so very

devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I can't imagine having a lifelong nada

who needs to project that onto you! I'm so, so sorry and commend you highly for

rising above and believing in your own grasp of reality.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas will

have a few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of in

themselves, they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > > > > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular); for

others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality and

desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > > > > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are some

of

> > > > > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Charlotte

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree, extremism plays a major role in the Pd theatrical arsenal.

Things that were genuinely an issue or a problem were often (mis)perceived

as " stunts. " or downplayed as unimportant, and non-issues, or confabulations

may be given major play time. The dynamic seemed to hinge on what Nada

perceived as giving her the most power, control, or best stage time....

Oh yes, and about that " cleaning thing, " I can't even begin to count the

hours I spent scrubbing bathroom grout with a toothbrush...Arrgh....

Sunspot

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> You've nailed the dynamic that is at the heart of this particular aspect of

> personality disorder: extremism.

>

> Its about control, mostly, even the hoarding and the filth. It seems odd

> that extreme hyper-cleanliness rigid order (including raging over how the

> dishes are loaded) can be related to living in garbage encrusted,

> vermin-swarming filth, but its the opposite sides of the same coin.

>

> You are right, there is a happy, sane, rational medium. There is such a

> thing as " clean enough " or " organized enough " to avoid attracting roaches

> and other vermin, clean enough to make having friends over for a visit a

> pleasant experience for all involved, without going to the extreme end of

> running around after people with a vacuum cleaner or hyperventilating over

> something spilled on the carpet.

>

> I think the happy, sane, rational medium is what eludes those with

> personality disorder because of their " black and white " or " all or nothing "

> thinking.

>

> And I agree with you that yes, just a little common sense is all that's

> necessary when loading a dishwasher. That's all. And even if its not perfect

> *its no big deal* and does not warrant having a hysterical fit over. My nada

> had no sense of what an appropriate reaction was. A minor mistake got the

> same screaming rage as a really major one.

>

> (Besides, depending on the number and variety of objects placed in the

> dishwasher, including pots, pans and skillets, there *can't* be only one

> right way to load it. The entire premise is just insane, and inane, in my

> opinion.)

>

> My nada was oblivious to the fact that her hyper-controlling behavior, the

> micro-management, the constant low-grade criticism and negativity and

> explosive raging over minor mistakes/minor disagreements was destroying her

> kids' sense of self worth and turning us into jittery, neurotic messes.

>

> No perspective, no sense of what is an appropriate response, no empathy, no

> compassion. All or nothing. Over-reacting to small annoyances. Road rage.

> Extremism. Perfectionism, hyper-clean and hyper-organized, having

> ridiculously high standards that are virtually impossible to achieve

> (unrealistic expectations) .... and on the other side of the coin,

> hermit-like behavior, paranoia, delusional thinking, hoarding, never

> cleaning, living in filth, avoiding contact with other people out of

> suspicion or fear, preventing the children from having normal friendships,

> neglecting the children's needs for proper nutrition, proper medical care,

> proper clothing, proper supervision, etc...

>

> Extremism.

>

> All of these are in my opinion big red waving flag behaviors in a parent

> that indicate mental disorder, and that the kids are very likely being

> mistreated and suffering psychological damage.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sunspot,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I

> recently had a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose go-to

> projection was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made it a

> point, when we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that

> his ex-wife and one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him.

> Then when we broke up, he set me up to try his very very best to project

> onto me that I was some 'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply

> looking at a few completely public web postings of his and sending him a few

> text messages. It was so very devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I

> can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs to project that onto you! I'm

> so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising above and believing in your

> own grasp of reality.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas

> will have a few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified of

> in themselves, they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split black

> > > > > > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in particular);

> for others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality

> and desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > > > > > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are

> some of

> > > > > > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --Charlotte

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have 2 questions. 1) has anyone read about OCD combined with BPD? My nada

was a bit ocd. her rituals made it exhausting to do things right, and so she

would refuse to try at all and just gave in to a hoarder lifestyle. 2) I am

with TRACY, because, yes its shitty to berate your kids over not loading the

dishwasher right. BUT my boyfriend does the dishes and I cook, that's our

agreement. Anyway, my dishes come out of the dishwasher dirtier than how

they go in. Yet if I do it myself it come out fine. . . Is this one of the

tricks boys learn in the locker room to get out of doing work? HA HA just

wondering.

> Yes, I agree, extremism plays a major role in the Pd theatrical arsenal.

> Things that were genuinely an issue or a problem were often (mis)perceived

> as " stunts. " or downplayed as unimportant, and non-issues, or

> confabulations

> may be given major play time. The dynamic seemed to hinge on what Nada

> perceived as giving her the most power, control, or best stage time....

>

> Oh yes, and about that " cleaning thing, " I can't even begin to count the

> hours I spent scrubbing bathroom grout with a toothbrush...Arrgh....

>

> Sunspot

>

> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, anuria67854 <anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > You've nailed the dynamic that is at the heart of this particular aspect

> of

> > personality disorder: extremism.

> >

> > Its about control, mostly, even the hoarding and the filth. It seems odd

> > that extreme hyper-cleanliness rigid order (including raging over how the

> > dishes are loaded) can be related to living in garbage encrusted,

> > vermin-swarming filth, but its the opposite sides of the same coin.

> >

> > You are right, there is a happy, sane, rational medium. There is such a

> > thing as " clean enough " or " organized enough " to avoid attracting roaches

> > and other vermin, clean enough to make having friends over for a visit a

> > pleasant experience for all involved, without going to the extreme end of

> > running around after people with a vacuum cleaner or hyperventilating

> over

> > something spilled on the carpet.

> >

> > I think the happy, sane, rational medium is what eludes those with

> > personality disorder because of their " black and white " or " all or

> nothing "

> > thinking.

> >

> > And I agree with you that yes, just a little common sense is all that's

> > necessary when loading a dishwasher. That's all. And even if its not

> perfect

> > *its no big deal* and does not warrant having a hysterical fit over. My

> nada

> > had no sense of what an appropriate reaction was. A minor mistake got the

> > same screaming rage as a really major one.

> >

> > (Besides, depending on the number and variety of objects placed in the

> > dishwasher, including pots, pans and skillets, there *can't* be only one

> > right way to load it. The entire premise is just insane, and inane, in my

> > opinion.)

> >

> > My nada was oblivious to the fact that her hyper-controlling behavior,

> the

> > micro-management, the constant low-grade criticism and negativity and

> > explosive raging over minor mistakes/minor disagreements was destroying

> her

> > kids' sense of self worth and turning us into jittery, neurotic messes.

> >

> > No perspective, no sense of what is an appropriate response, no empathy,

> no

> > compassion. All or nothing. Over-reacting to small annoyances. Road rage.

> > Extremism. Perfectionism, hyper-clean and hyper-organized, having

> > ridiculously high standards that are virtually impossible to achieve

> > (unrealistic expectations) .... and on the other side of the coin,

> > hermit-like behavior, paranoia, delusional thinking, hoarding, never

> > cleaning, living in filth, avoiding contact with other people out of

> > suspicion or fear, preventing the children from having normal

> friendships,

> > neglecting the children's needs for proper nutrition, proper medical

> care,

> > proper clothing, proper supervision, etc...

> >

> > Extremism.

> >

> > All of these are in my opinion big red waving flag behaviors in a parent

> > that indicate mental disorder, and that the kids are very likely being

> > mistreated and suffering psychological damage.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sunspot,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My sympathies for your ordeals with nada per this thread. I

> > recently had a brief but very harrowing connection to a bpd man whose

> go-to

> > projection was also his psychotic and mentally unstable nature. He made

> it a

> > point, when we first started getting to know each other, of claiming that

> > his ex-wife and one of his ex-girlfiends had 'gone crazy' and hated him.

> > Then when we broke up, he set me up to try his very very best to project

> > onto me that I was some 'crazy' out of control 'psycho' woman, for simply

> > looking at a few completely public web postings of his and sending him a

> few

> > text messages. It was so very devastating to me even in this tiny dose--I

> > can't imagine having a lifelong nada who needs to project that onto you!

> I'm

> > so, so sorry and commend you highly for rising above and believing in

> your

> > own grasp of reality.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think this is a good time to remind everyone that all nadas

> > will have a few, pet, 'go-to' projections--the things they are terrified

> of

> > in themselves, they will be obsessed with projecting onto their split

> black

> > > > > > > children. For some it will be body issues (weight in

> particular);

> > for others, lack of power of public/career success; for others, sexuality

> > and desirability (that was my nadas); for others, 'sanity'...for others,

> > > > > > > religious virtue and 'morality'...What am I missing? These are

> > some of

> > > > > > > the ones I've seen. Social popularity, as well, is one.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --Charlotte

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if your boyfriend is forgetting to put the soap in?

I don't even rinse my plates and stuff, I just scrape the excess loose food bits

off into the garbage and pop the very dirty dishes into the washer, in whatever

way they will fit without bumping each other, and voila, they're clean. If I've

left them out long enough for the food to harden, I use the " pre-rinse " setting.

The only thing I've ever noticed that doesn't come out nice and clean, and needs

to be re-cleaned by hand is the occasional fork that was used to scramble eggs

if the residue was allowed to harden.

Something about egg protein really sticks like epoxy to my stainless. But my

dishwasher is rather new, only 3 years old, and it not only cleans like a champ,

its very quiet.

I think from what I've read, bpd can occur with any other disorder, or

combination of disorders.

My nada had/has I think co-morbid obsessive-compulsive personality disorder,

which isn't exactly the same thing as ocd but related. OCPD is about the need

to set up and follow rigid rules and the need to be in total control of others

and their environment. Those with ocpd find it difficult to delegate tasks

because others can't match their extreme standards of perfection. My nada could

have worn a t-shirt that said " OCPD and damned proud! "

-Annie

>

> I have 2 questions. 1) has anyone read about OCD combined with BPD? My nada

> was a bit ocd. her rituals made it exhausting to do things right, and so she

> would refuse to try at all and just gave in to a hoarder lifestyle. 2) I am

> with TRACY, because, yes its shitty to berate your kids over not loading the

> dishwasher right. BUT my boyfriend does the dishes and I cook, that's our

> agreement. Anyway, my dishes come out of the dishwasher dirtier than how

> they go in. Yet if I do it myself it come out fine. . . Is this one of the

> tricks boys learn in the locker room to get out of doing work? HA HA just

> wondering.

[Guest guest]

*raises hand*

I was both a slut and a lesbian!

Awesome.

I was neither.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Mon, September 5, 2011 9:08:40 AM

Subject: Re: Re: When was your 'This isn't normal'

moment?--Sunspot

Hey folks, may I ask how many of you had slutty sexual behavior assigned to

you by your nada? I was called a slut many times. And if I went somewhere

with boys, it was a huge deal to nada. And she defeminized me to the point

that I nearly was a boy. . .

But then later during my divorce the issue came up again. I don't know why,

but I guess they saw marriage as " safe " even if I was miserable and

singlehood meant sluttieness. That ended up being the end. I wasn't going to

listen to her call me names and say she is worried I might be a slut during

the most difficult time in my life.

Anyway, I'd love thoughts. My T said it was less a projection of her fear of

her own inner slut, and more just the worst and most destructive thing she

could think of to say. That she was hell bent on destroying me.

I'd love to explore this topic more. Thanks, gs

> Thanks for the hugs Annie.

>

> I don't know that at 7, I actually understood the full concept of

> death, I know for a fact, tho, that I was terrified beyond words and hope,

> and that my mother, along with a friend of hers, who was staying with us

> during her divorce, hated me, egged each other on, an that I was terrified

> beyond reason . . .

>

> I too planned and practiced running away for most of my childhood. I

> think the thing that saved me, was being sent to stay with family members

> summers, and if I became too ill. These were wonderful, loving gentle

> people, who, if a little unplugged, were at least kindly and loved me. I

> was

> allowed to create and learn without micro-inspection, or even much comment,

> unless I sought it out, which was good, since most of my childhood play

> centered around building means of escape.

>

> I still have some trouble trusting people, feeling safe, and sleeping at

> night. But I'm working on it.

>

> May we all find respite, may we all find peace

>

> Best Regards, Sunspot

>

>

>

>

> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:57 PM, anuria67854 <anuria-67854@...

> >wrote:

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > (((((Sunspot)))))

> >

> > It has to be pretty damned severe and chronic abuse for a little

> 7-year-old

> > to want to try and kill herself. Its virtually unheard of for such a

> young

> > child to prefer death and actually make a suicide attempt, but I can

> > certainly understand the terror that a 7 year old would feel over the

> threat

> > of an impending severe punishment/beating.

> >

> > Thats nothing less than sadistic psychological torture, like describing

> to

> > a condemned prisoner exactly how they will be slowly put to death over a

> > period of days, to make their suffering last longer.

> >

> > Its much more common for small children to try and run away from an

> abusive

> > or negligent home. I tried once, in a kind of indirect way. I hid myself

> > when we were visiting a relative and I didn't come when she called me. I

> > think I was about 4 at the time. I was hoping my nada would just go away

> and

> > leave me there with my gramma, my dad's mother. My little Sister on the

> > other hand tried to literally run away, little suitcase in hand, several

> > times at about the age of 7 or 8. I'm so sorry you weren't rescued, no

> child

> > deserves the kind of treatment you describe. You must have a core of

> steel

> > to have survived at all.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

> > >

> > > I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of

> what

> > > constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

> > >

> > > There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a

> social

> > > worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at

> > work,

> > > however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in

> mental

> > > health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect my

> > > family instead.

> > >

> > > I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

> > > sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other people.

> > But,

> > > that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that

> > maybe,

> > > someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

> > >

> > > I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over

> the

> > > years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom ever

> > she

> > > was.

> > >

> > > This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky I

> > > was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

> > > I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of my

> > > arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not staying

> up

> > > all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep !

> > I'm

> > > not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and

> > grieving,

> > > I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain

> > what

> > > is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

> > >

> > > But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

> > > whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

> > > good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

> > > good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted her

> > to

> > > quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually

> got

> > > over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

> > >

> > > I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom, and

> > > drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend

> it...,)

> > > in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to receive,

> > for

> > > a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still

> got

> > > beaten, *and* threw up.

> > >

> > > I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with

> > *me*,

> > > until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies don't

> > > dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to

> > people

> > > who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or faint

> > and

> > > then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

> > > I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

> > > until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear my

> > Dads

> > > car in the driveway.

> > > Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

> > > almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that let

> me

> > > know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong she

> > would

> > > imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

> > > I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt or

> > > punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite

> for

> > > having seen her vulnerabilities.

> > >

> > > I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

> > > (which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy.

> Even

> > > though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

> > > camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

> > >

> > > I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

> > > you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

> > > I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

> > > _______________, then you might be a Borderline.

> > > Again, lets think about t-shirts

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I might

> > > have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a

> qualified

> > art

> > > therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of

> the

> > PD,

> > > is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs, What

> do

> > > you folks think?

> > >

> > >

> > > And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected

> > onto

> > > me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease ridden,

> > > wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only to

> be

> > > wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . . .

> .

> > > .?

> > >

> > > My Best to All, Sunspot

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HA HA me too, i was accused of slut and lesbian . . . confusing.

I love that I can get dishwashing advice here. So I've watched him with the

soap, and he actually uses 2 times as much as needed, which bugs me because

it is a waste of expensive soap!!! HA HA HA luckily dishwashing is one of

the bigger issues between us.

> **

>

>

> *raises hand*

> I was both a slut and a lesbian!

>

> Awesome.

>

> I was neither.

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Mon, September 5, 2011 9:08:40 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: When was your 'This isn't normal'

> moment?--Sunspot

>

>

> Hey folks, may I ask how many of you had slutty sexual behavior assigned to

> you by your nada? I was called a slut many times. And if I went somewhere

> with boys, it was a huge deal to nada. And she defeminized me to the point

> that I nearly was a boy. . .

>

> But then later during my divorce the issue came up again. I don't know why,

> but I guess they saw marriage as " safe " even if I was miserable and

> singlehood meant sluttieness. That ended up being the end. I wasn't going

> to

> listen to her call me names and say she is worried I might be a slut during

> the most difficult time in my life.

>

> Anyway, I'd love thoughts. My T said it was less a projection of her fear

> of

> her own inner slut, and more just the worst and most destructive thing she

> could think of to say. That she was hell bent on destroying me.

>

> I'd love to explore this topic more. Thanks, gs

>

>

>

> > Thanks for the hugs Annie.

> >

> > I don't know that at 7, I actually understood the full concept of

> > death, I know for a fact, tho, that I was terrified beyond words and

> hope,

> > and that my mother, along with a friend of hers, who was staying with us

> > during her divorce, hated me, egged each other on, an that I was

> terrified

> > beyond reason . . .

> >

> > I too planned and practiced running away for most of my childhood. I

> > think the thing that saved me, was being sent to stay with family members

> > summers, and if I became too ill. These were wonderful, loving gentle

> > people, who, if a little unplugged, were at least kindly and loved me. I

> > was

> > allowed to create and learn without micro-inspection, or even much

> comment,

> > unless I sought it out, which was good, since most of my childhood play

> > centered around building means of escape.

> >

> > I still have some trouble trusting people, feeling safe, and sleeping at

> > night. But I'm working on it.

> >

> > May we all find respite, may we all find peace

> >

> > Best Regards, Sunspot

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 5:57 PM, anuria67854 <anuria-67854@...

> > >wrote:

> >

> > > **

> > >

> > >

> > > (((((Sunspot)))))

> > >

> > > It has to be pretty damned severe and chronic abuse for a little

> > 7-year-old

> > > to want to try and kill herself. Its virtually unheard of for such a

> > young

> > > child to prefer death and actually make a suicide attempt, but I can

> > > certainly understand the terror that a 7 year old would feel over the

> > threat

> > > of an impending severe punishment/beating.

> > >

> > > Thats nothing less than sadistic psychological torture, like describing

> > to

> > > a condemned prisoner exactly how they will be slowly put to death over

> a

> > > period of days, to make their suffering last longer.

> > >

> > > Its much more common for small children to try and run away from an

> > abusive

> > > or negligent home. I tried once, in a kind of indirect way. I hid

> myself

> > > when we were visiting a relative and I didn't come when she called me.

> I

> > > think I was about 4 at the time. I was hoping my nada would just go

> away

> > and

> > > leave me there with my gramma, my dad's mother. My little Sister on the

> > > other hand tried to literally run away, little suitcase in hand,

> several

> > > times at about the age of 7 or 8. I'm so sorry you weren't rescued, no

> > child

> > > deserves the kind of treatment you describe. You must have a core of

> > steel

> > > to have survived at all.

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks so so very much, Charlie and Annie,

> > > >

> > > > I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of public awareness of

> > what

> > > > constitutes disordered thinking and behavior among parents.

> > > >

> > > > There was one time in my childhood, when a lady who said she was a

> > social

> > > > worker did come to our house to talk to me, while my parents were at

> > > work,

> > > > however, because both of my parents were actually professionals in

> > mental

> > > > health fields, I was too afraid to talk to her, and lied to protect

> my

> > > > family instead.

> > > >

> > > > I was also afraid that this might be a set-up by my mother, who would

> > > > sometimes beat me up for things she *thought* I had told other

> people.

> > > But,

> > > > that incident did support me in my experience, and let me know that

> > > maybe,

> > > > someone, somewhere, knew something was wrong.

> > > >

> > > > I have held that conversation through the screen door very dear over

> > the

> > > > years, even though I lied to her. God bless her and keep her whom

> ever

> > > she

> > > > was.

> > > >

> > > > This was such a change from my teachers, who would tell me how lucky

> I

> > > > was, how intelligent my parents were, that I was spoiled, and so on.

> > > > I used to want to scream at them " why don't you look at the backs of

> my

> > > > arms, they're bruised and there are fingernail marks ! I'm not

> staying

> > up

> > > > all night because I'm spoiled, but because I'm scared to go to sleep

> !

> > > I'm

> > > > not sulky, lazy, or an underachiever, I'm tired, frightened, and

> > > grieving,

> > > > I'm scared stupid, I don't even have the words to describe or explain

> > > what

> > > > is happening at home ! SOMEBODY HELP ME ! ! ! "

> > > >

> > > > But I didn't. I smiled, agreed I was just lazy, lucky, spoiled, or

> > > > whatever, and held Moms hand at school functions and smiled my best

> > > > good-girl smile. I *wanted* to please, I* wanted* to be the

> > > > good-enough-little girl. I wanted *my* Mommy to love *me*. I wanted

> her

> > > to

> > > > quit being crazy, and *be* my Mommy. I* wanted* to die. (I eventually

> > got

> > > > over that, wanting - to - die thing, by the way)

> > > >

> > > > I tried to kill myself when I was 7 ( I was locked in the bathroom,

> and

> > > > drank perfume, Cotillion, by Avon, as I recall, I don't recommend

> > it...,)

> > > > in anticipation of a particularly nasty beating I was about to

> receive,

> > > for

> > > > a blown out of proportion, set-up infraction. I didn't die, and still

> > got

> > > > beaten, *and* threw up.

> > > >

> > > > I felt, as I think most of us did, that something must be wrong with

> > > *me*,

> > > > until I finally really - really got it that other peoples Mommies

> don't

> > > > dissociate ( I didn't know thats what it was until later) and talk to

> > > people

> > > > who aren't there, or freak out over things that didn't happen, or

> faint

> > > and

> > > > then cry like a little child on the kitchen floor.

> > > > I would sit with her and sing You Are My Sunshine, or Jesus Loves Me,

> > > > until she would push me away, or if I was really lucky, I would hear

> my

> > > Dads

> > > > car in the driveway.

> > > > Sometimes she could be up and on her feet before he got in the door,

> > > > almost as though nothing was wrong, just giving me " the look " that

> let

> > me

> > > > know to keep my mouth shut, and if my Dad would ask what was wrong

> she

> > > would

> > > > imply I was " pulling an attitude, " or had been sulky . . .

> > > > I felt like I had to protect her, even though it meant getting hurt

> or

> > > > punished both during the process, and often afterwards, out of spite

> > for

> > > > having seen her vulnerabilities.

> > > >

> > > > I think much of the difficulty in helping The Children of the Damned,

> > > > (which is how I have thought of myself,) is in recourse and remedy.

> > Even

> > > > though much of the PDs behaviors are extreme, they can also be well

> > > > camouflaged, and, to the outside world, even subtle.

> > > >

> > > > I was thinking of Jeff Foxworthies comedy routine " If

> > > > you________________, then you might be a redneck. "

> > > > I wish we could figure out the warning signs for PD spectrum. If you

> > > > _______________, then you might be a Borderline.

> > > > Again, lets think about t-shirts

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > In retrospect, even though I didn't have the words as a child, I

> might

> > > > have been able to draw the emotions of the experiences, with a

> > qualified

> > > art

> > > > therapist. Since so much of what occurs in the chaotic households of

> > the

> > > PD,

> > > > is profoundly confusing, art may be a really good avenue for KOs,

> What

> > do

> > > > you folks think?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And Charlie, my Nada, too, had a sexuality " thing " that she projected

> > > onto

> > > > me. I am her brilliant but mentally ill, slut daughter, disease

> ridden,

> > > > wanton, ruined, with whom she periodically tries to reconcile, only

> to

> > be

> > > > wounded and mistreated in the process. AAAAAAAAh, what can ya say . .

> .

> > .

> > > > .?

> > > >

> > > > My Best to All, Sunspot

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Here's my hand, waving in the air! Crazy compounded with nada and fada during

my puberty because fada was an in-the-closet compulsive-cruiser homosexual,

happy to deflect nada's suspicions onto ME. The lying, sneaking bast* & %. I was

subject to secret " raids " of my purse and room, looking for " evidence " of my

sexual carryings-on. There were none, but nada believed I just had to be guilty.

Somebody in the house was, but it wasn't me. She told relatives and friends I

was " wild " and a slut, so when we had visitors I found myself being regarded out

of the corners of their eyes. I believe I have chronicled here before, how she

sent me for a " virginity test " at TWELVE YEARS OLD to our male general

physician, and made my life hell with her accusations and overbearing intrusions

into my privacy.

She cut my hair off in a boyish pixie style until I turned 15 and had say over

growing my hair long. When I did that, she sent me out the door every morning

telling me how hideous I looked. She was relentless in her insistence that I was

ugly.

Boy, if I only had the knowledge and mental strength then that I have now, I

could have turned the tables on those two and taken a revenge they'd never

forget. Too late, fada is dead, nada has lost her marbles to dementia. I move

forward, a free woman.

Thanks for asking.

AFB

>

> Hey folks, may I ask how many of you had slutty sexual behavior assigned to

> you by your nada? I was called a slut many times. And if I went somewhere

> with boys, it was a huge deal to nada. And she defeminized me to the point

> that I nearly was a boy. . .

>

> But then later during my divorce the issue came up again. I don't know why,

> but I guess they saw marriage as " safe " even if I was miserable and

> singlehood meant sluttieness. That ended up being the end. I wasn't going to

> listen to her call me names and say she is worried I might be a slut during

> the most difficult time in my life.

>

> Anyway, I'd love thoughts. My T said it was less a projection of her fear of

> her own inner slut, and more just the worst and most destructive thing she

> could think of to say. That she was hell bent on destroying me.

>

> I'd love to explore this topic more. Thanks, gs

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find your post interesting because (a) my nada had some kind of sexual issues

that manifested in her needing to strip me of any hints of my having sexual

feelings, interests or desires altogether; she wanted/needed me to be as asexual

as possible but then she tormented me for being asexual. It was like being in

hell. She made me the way I am and then shamed and humiliated me for being the

way I am... and ( my nada is now formally diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia,

which is an organic deterioration of the brain.

It makes me wonder if in some cases the behaviors of bpd are actually due to an

organic brain disease or deterioration, and its just that in their younger years

our nadas have a little more executive brain function, but as they age and their

executive function deteriorates first, the underlying dementia is revealed.

I know that my nada for my entire growing up years had paranoid thoughts and

delusions. She'd accuse me, Sister and dad of things we never said or did and

she'd have total melt-down rage-tantrums due to her delusional and paranoid

thinking.

Delusions and paranoia are one step away from full blown psychosis, if I

understand what I've read correctly. Me personally, I really do not understand

why delusions and paranoid thinking (beliefs) are *not* considered to be

full-blown psychosis, which means " not connected with reality " , but it takes

manifesting sensory hallucinations for the " psychotic " diagnosis to be given

(hearing voices that aren't there, seeing people that aren't there, feeling

things touching you that aren't there, etc.)

It just really makes me wonder if there is some connection, any connection

between organic brain deterioration (dementia) and bpd? Only continuing

medical research can answer those kinds of questions; I hope at least some

substantial progress is made along these lines of research, in my lifetime.

I'm willing to bet money that bpd is some form of dementia, and involves organic

brain deterioration in some way.

-Annie

>

> Here's my hand, waving in the air! Crazy compounded with nada and fada during

my puberty because fada was an in-the-closet compulsive-cruiser homosexual,

happy to deflect nada's suspicions onto ME. The lying, sneaking bast* & %. I was

subject to secret " raids " of my purse and room, looking for " evidence " of my

sexual carryings-on. There were none, but nada believed I just had to be guilty.

Somebody in the house was, but it wasn't me. She told relatives and friends I

was " wild " and a slut, so when we had visitors I found myself being regarded out

of the corners of their eyes. I believe I have chronicled here before, how she

sent me for a " virginity test " at TWELVE YEARS OLD to our male general

physician, and made my life hell with her accusations and overbearing intrusions

into my privacy.

>

> She cut my hair off in a boyish pixie style until I turned 15 and had say over

growing my hair long. When I did that, she sent me out the door every morning

telling me how hideous I looked. She was relentless in her insistence that I was

ugly.

>

> Boy, if I only had the knowledge and mental strength then that I have now, I

could have turned the tables on those two and taken a revenge they'd never

forget. Too late, fada is dead, nada has lost her marbles to dementia. I move

forward, a free woman.

>

> Thanks for asking.

> AFB

[Guest guest]

GS - Yes, I am CONVINCED they give lessons to little boys in how to " do a

crappy job so your mom/wife/girlfriend will just give up and do the chore for

you. "

[Guest guest]

HA !!!!! I swear I've caught them in the act!

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:24 PM, shirleyspawn wrote:

> **

>

>

> GS - Yes, I am CONVINCED they give lessons to little boys in how to " do a

> crappy job so your mom/wife/girlfriend will just give up and do the chore

> for you. "

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Verrrry interesting Annie. I'll bet there is a test that could be developed

(blood test? brain scan?) that would prove your very point here. Sadly, it's too

late for us. I LOVE your point about the executive brain function. I think

you've hit on something right there. the executive brain learns behaviors, an

" act " if you will, that allows the BPD to blend superficially with the general

population and hide the worst of the illness in public. As age deteriorates the

executive function, eroding self-control and diminishing inhibitions, the

dementia is on display for the world to see. Sounds right to me.

AFB

Posted by: " anuria67854 " anuria-67854@... anuria67854

Tue Sep 6, 2011 4:55 pm (PDT)

I find your post interesting because (a) my nada had some kind of sexual issues

that manifested in her needing to strip me of any hints of my having sexual

feelings, interests or desires altogether; she wanted/needed me to be as asexual

as possible but then she tormented me for being asexual. It was like being in

hell. She made me the way I am and then shamed and humiliated me for being the

way I am... and ( my nada is now formally diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia,

which is an organic deterioration of the brain.

It makes me wonder if in some cases the behaviors of bpd are actually due to an

organic brain disease or deterioration, and its just that in their younger years

our nadas have a little more executive brain function, but as they age and their

executive function deteriorates first, the underlying dementia is revealed.

I know that my nada for my entire growing up years had paranoid thoughts and

delusions. She'd accuse me, Sister and dad of things we never said or did and

she'd have total melt-down rage-tantrums due to her delusional and paranoid

thinking.

Delusions and paranoia are one step away from full blown psychosis, if I

understand what I've read correctly. Me personally, I really do not understand

why delusions and paranoid thinking (beliefs) are *not* considered to be

full-blown psychosis, which means " not connected with reality " , but it takes

manifesting sensory hallucinations for the " psychotic " diagnosis to be given

(hearing voices that aren't there, seeing people that aren't there, feeling

things touching you that aren't there, etc.)

It just really makes me wonder if there is some connection, any connection

between organic brain deterioration (dementia) and bpd? Only continuing medical

research can answer those kinds of questions; I hope at least some substantial

progress is made along these lines of research, in my lifetime. I'm willing to

bet money that bpd is some form of dementia, and involves organic brain

deterioration in some way.

-Annie