Finding acceptance

[Guest guest]

I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it is

entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

An example of what I mean:

I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I remember

from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the fallout

from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and the

ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a relief not

to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my stepfather's blind,

crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons, his arrogance at

believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and my mother, and the

utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap in the face that

this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in favor of my

mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to live with

(which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't want to be

this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard, very

delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think of

myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that of

you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you use?

Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited relationship

with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some strategies in my

toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any tips?

[Guest guest]

First of all, you did the right thing for your family be not telling your mom.

But then step-dad found out. I am impressed that you kept it a secret that

long. It is hard to hide a baby from family. Good job.

I hear that you are upset at your step-father for being inconsiderate and

stupid. However, you have to expect it. You can't stand to have you mom around

for an hour; well that poor guy has to live with her. He is not the most well

put together guy after being torn apart by BP mom everyday, 27/7. Of course he

is going to go straight to mom with the news; he is well training by now I

think.

As much as I loved my step-dad, I eventually realized that he couldn't keep a

secret from BP mom to save his life. He is an ordained pastor!

I think you are doing everything you can to protect your family from the BP

abuse. You are using a therapist and doctors to help you. Just keep doing what

you have been. Seek for peace and you will find it.

>

> I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it is

entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

>

> An example of what I mean:

>

> I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

>

> I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I remember

from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the fallout

from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and the

ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

>

> I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a relief

not to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my stepfather's

blind, crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons, his arrogance

at believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and my mother, and

the utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap in the face

that this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in favor of my

mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to live with

(which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't want to be

this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard, very

delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think of

myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that of

you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

>

> How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you use?

Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited relationship

with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some strategies in my

toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any tips?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the response - much appreciated. Sometimes it's nice just to hear I

*might* be doing the right thing after all.

> >

> > I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it is

entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

> >

> > An example of what I mean:

> >

> > I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

> >

> > I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I remember

from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the fallout

from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and the

ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

> >

> > I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a relief

not to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my stepfather's

blind, crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons, his arrogance

at believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and my mother, and

the utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap in the face

that this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in favor of my

mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to live with

(which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't want to be

this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard, very

delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think of

myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that of

you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

> >

> > How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you

use? Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited

relationship with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some

strategies in my toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any

tips?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No tips I'm afraid but I just wanted to say I get it! I often feel like I have a

choice: a) cut off contact with nada for good and disappear and have an okay

life continue as I am being triggered by contact with her into anxiety

attacks and depression spells forever and ever and ever... I want a middle

ground too. But its hard when you have been trained to be emotionally triggered

by a mentally ill parent for your entire life (!). I guess I'm hoping therapy

will enable me to find a middle ground. I hope so.

Good luck!

Sara

> > >

> > > I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it

is entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

> > >

> > > An example of what I mean:

> > >

> > > I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

> > >

> > > I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I

remember from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the

fallout from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and

the ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

> > >

> > > I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a

relief not to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my

stepfather's blind, crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons,

his arrogance at believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and

my mother, and the utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap

in the face that this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in

favor of my mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to

live with (which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't

want to be this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard,

very delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think

of myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that

of you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

> > >

> > > How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you

use? Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited

relationship with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some

strategies in my toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any

tips?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The " middle ground " , limited contact with firm boundaries in place that are

firmly enforced, takes a lot of effort and (in my own personal opinion) some

degree of emotional detachment, but it can be done.

My younger Sister has managed to maintain low contact with our nada, but Sister

has told me that she, (my sister) had to become pretty much completely

emotionally detached from our Cluster B mother (or nada, for " not a mom " ) in

order to do this.

My Sister was in therapy for a couple of years, and that allowed her to free

herself of the misplaced feelings of guilt and responsibility for our mother's

*feelings* that Sister was carrying, which helped tremendously. But on her

own, Sister finally got to the point where our nada's repeated verbal/emotional

attacks alternating with acting nice, back and forth, back and forth, became

too much for Sister. Nada finally said something so incredibly and deeply

hateful that Sister said she just stopped thinking of our mother as Mother. Our

mother/nada is pretty much the same as a client to Sister now, meaning Sister

maintains a detached professional interest in nada, but not an emotional

connection. Sister is able to " tune out " the crap nada says to her and not

take it as personally any longer.

I am remaining in No Contact because (I'm theorizing here) I haven't been able

to emotionally detach. The verbal toxic waste that my nada s**ts out of her

mouth still hurts me and began to literally make me physically ill. The

horrible thing that nada said to Sister was directed at me as well, and it made

me realize that my mother can't really love me if she could think or say

something like that about me, and at that moment it felt to me as though my

mother had died. I grieved and mourned for quite a while, but that's what

precipitated my No Contact.

So, becoming emotionally detached from our nada has allowed my Sister to

interact with our nada and care for her but in a way that I refer to as

" compassionate detachment. " Sister cares for our mother the way she cares for

any other human being in need, or for one of her clients, but this person no

longer has that special place in Sister's heart that is reserved for Mother.

I'm sure others here who have been able to find and maintain a limited contact

relationship with their bpd parents will be sharing their methods and techniques

and strategies with us here.

Each of us has to find the path that works for us, find what we need and can

live with in order to achieve peace and healing, and there is more than one way

to accomplish that.

-Annie

>

> No tips I'm afraid but I just wanted to say I get it! I often feel like I have

a choice: a) cut off contact with nada for good and disappear and have an okay

life continue as I am being triggered by contact with her into anxiety

attacks and depression spells forever and ever and ever... I want a middle

ground too. But its hard when you have been trained to be emotionally triggered

by a mentally ill parent for your entire life (!). I guess I'm hoping therapy

will enable me to find a middle ground. I hope so.

>

> Good luck!

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing with your

nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with with your

nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend more time

with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50 chance) for

around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and sometimes even let

things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the strain on my

husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother - and she is

especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks embedded in

humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface she is often

angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we don't jump

at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger sister does

- who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just was wondering

if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband and kids with

nada?

> >

> > No tips I'm afraid but I just wanted to say I get it! I often feel like I

have a choice: a) cut off contact with nada for good and disappear and have an

okay life continue as I am being triggered by contact with her into anxiety

attacks and depression spells forever and ever and ever... I want a middle

ground too. But its hard when you have been trained to be emotionally triggered

by a mentally ill parent for your entire life (!). I guess I'm hoping therapy

will enable me to find a middle ground. I hope so.

> >

> > Good luck!

> >

> > Sara

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My Sister moved to our mother's part of the country for the express purpose of

being there to... keep an eye on our parents as they aged. When dad died, my

Sister's boy was about 10 years old, and for the first 5 years or so after

dad's death nada was still pretty self-sufficient, able to drive, etc. When my

nephew was 15 or so and in high school, that's when Sister began giving our

nada more of her free time, because nada had stopped driving due to poor vision,

and Sister's free time was impacted because nada needed more of a part-time

care-giver/driver at that point.

I'll ask my Sister how she split her time between her job, going to school,

raising her boy (Sister was a single mom, no dad in the picture) and looking

after our nada. It was after Sister got her degree, and while her son was in

college (and living at home) that Sister started being pressured more and more

by nada to spend even more time with nada, so, that would be like... 7 years ago

when the pressure amped up: nada became more demanding and more difficult to

please and more verbally abusive at that time, and no matter how much Sister did

for nada it was never enough. At that point Sister became more and more

depressed, and finally started seeing a psychologist.

So, anyway, I'll relay your question to her.

I do know that back when my nephew announced his church wedding (he and his

bride had had a civil ceremony already, and we all went to that and it was

lovely, but his bride's family wanted a church wedding in their country, too)

that precipitated a barrage of verbal abuse directed at her grandson/my nephew

by nada, and that resulted in Sister (and me, and my nephew) going No Contact

with nada, the first time.

However, so I don't turn this post into a novel, I'll get back to you with my

Sister's response when I receive it.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

> I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing with your

nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with with your

nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend more time

with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50 chance) for

around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and sometimes even let

things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the strain on my

husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother - and she is

especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks embedded in

humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface she is often

angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we don't jump

at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger sister does

- who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just was wondering

if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband and kids with

nada?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Thank you, that would be great.

> >

> > Annie,

> > I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing with

your nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with with

your nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend more

time with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50 chance)

for around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and sometimes even

let things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the strain on my

husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother - and she is

especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks embedded in

humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface she is often

angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we don't jump

at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger sister does

- who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just was wondering

if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband and kids with

nada?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is what my Sister wrote me regarding how she handled having contact with

our nada (when nada was still living on her own, before she had to be relocated

to an assisted living residence specializing in Alzheimer's patients.):

" The main way I dealt with it was limiting the amount of time I spent with

(nada) to one specific activity per visit. She would get ticked off because I

wouldn't stay for dinner or do a lot of running around she wanted to do, but I

tried to keep it to one activity per visit, one day a week, and the activity

usually lasted for only one or two hours. When I got to her apt, if she was

behaving badly, I would leave before we got started and tell her why (but I was

able to do this part only after having therapy from Dr. B.)

Hope this helps "

The psychotherapist my Sister had was a very good fit for her. He eventually

shared that he had also had a mother with borderline pd. Dr. B was able to help

my Sister shed her burden of misplaced, inappropriate feelings of guilt that it

was Sister's job to make our nada happy. Seeing to nada's basic well-being and

feeling responsible for nada's feelings are *two different things.* Dr. B was

able to make Sister understand that Sister is a good person and that our nada

has a disorder that makes her chronically unhappy, demanding and critical and

that NOTHING Sister could possibly do or say would make nada happy inside

herself, with herself.

So that helped Sister to begin to stop feeling guilty and responsible for nada's

lack of happiness, and that let Sister deal with nada's needs but not allow nada

treat her like a piece of stinking dog crap.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

> Thank you, that would be great.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing that. I love this concept and needed to hear it. My husband

has been telling me for years that I am not responsible for other people's

feelings, but it took me a long time to " get it. " I said it to my nada once,

that I wasn't responsible for her feelings and she went all waif-y on me. Good

grief.

AnnieL

> >

> > Annie,

> > Thank you, that would be great.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly: I told my Sister for literally *years* that she was giving nada too

much of her free time, and that even if Sister went over there *every freaking

day* nada would still not be happy with her and say mean, ugly, critical things

to her because our nada has an unfillable black hole of need inside her that

nobody can fill.

And I'd say this to Sister, again and again: " You have done nothing to feel

guilty about, you are a good person, you are not responsible for our mother's

chronic unhappiness " but it had no impact.

It took an outside " authority figure " (a therapist is, in a way, sort of like a

substitute parent for the patient) to say this to my Sister for her to accept

it. Maybe Sister was just ready to hear it, or maybe it was because her

therapist was a " father figure " to her, but she finally was able to " hear " this,

and process it and accept it.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Annie,

> > > Thank you, that would be great.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, you are filled with a lot of wisdom, you know that? I don't come on this

board often, but you always seem to have a lot of insight. Thank you so much for

sharing. I think that guilt is a big part of the issue I'm suffering with - if I

didn't feel so guilty for being NC with my mom while I'm pregnant with her first

grandchild (I still can't even accept that she is " nada " to me because I do

truly love her tremendously), my stepfather and stepsister's actions wouldn't

bother me so much. It's a switch I haven't been able to turn off despite lots of

people telling me it's ok to do so.

Hearing about the strict limitations your sister put on visits with your nada is

really helpful, too. It makes me think that having something like that in

writing, just for me, might be helpful if and when I decide to try again with my

mom. And, I always have the option of being NC again.

Out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, how do you feel being NC with

your nada? Does anyone in your family try to guilt you into re-establishing

contact? How do you deal with that? I just feel like I'm in a spiral I can't get

out of, worrying too much about what these people - who are not even blood

relatives - think about how I'm handling my own situation with my own mother.

Thanks again!

Caitlin

> > > >

> > > > Annie,

> > > > Thank you, that would be great.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Caitlin)))))

That makes me happy that something I posted was helpful to you, that was kind of

you to share that with me. Thank you.

Each of us processes our trauma at our own pace. I can only imagine how

difficult it is to be having baby AND trying to manage family members who are

trying to lay guilt trips on you. I hope you will do what feels best to you,

that makes you feel as stress-free as possible for the sake of your developing

baby.

That really is a big hurdle to cross: realizing that even though from childhood

you have been conditioned to be your mother's mommy (you were parentified,

saddled with the responsibility to make your mother feel good) that it was wrong

for your mother to do that to you. Your mother's inner happiness or lack of it

is not your burden to carry, making her child feel it was her (the child's)

burden was abusive.

So, I hope you will find a way to let yourself accept that no, you are not

responsible for your mother's happiness or unhappiness. Your mother is the only

one with the power to seek healing for herself and find ways to fill herself

with happiness from the inside out.

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > > > Annie,

> > > > > Thank you, that would be great.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I admire you for keeping the secret!! Good job, " mama bear. "

I wish I had had the insight to do that 34 years ago when I was pregnant. But I

don't think bpd even had a name then, much less any available information about

it, so I'll let myself off the hook on that one

But I had been LC for several years, 6? 7? definitely 4, after I got married.

Nada just made us crazy, and hubby and I were both working and going to school

full time, and we tried really hard to have 1 day off at least every other week

to spend just together. And we certainly didn't want nada butting in!!

But she went berserk when I was pregnant. She'd call me with horror stories -

suddenly the waif learned to use the phone! - and this was way before caller

I.D.

When DD was born, nada came to the hospital and asked me in the most horrid tone

of voice that I've ever heard, " whose baby IS that? " " Uh, ours, Mom. " " Well, it

doesn't look anything like you kids. It's got dark curly hair and dark skin. "

" Mom, that is _my daughter_ you're talking about, not an " it. " Her father is

Portuguese-Hawaiian. Ever noticed his dark curly hair? "

" Well, I just don't think that's his baby. How do you know? "

At that point, I had rung for the nurse,then asked her to escort my mother OUT

and requested that neither of my parents be allowed back in.

And thank God I did, because we ended up being there a week!

So- I guess my point is to prepare yourself to continue to be vigilant and

protective, of your child and of yourself so you can be the mom that is needed.

>

> I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it is

entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

>

> An example of what I mean:

>

> I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

>

> I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I remember

from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the fallout

from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and the

ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

>

> I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a relief

not to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my stepfather's

blind, crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons, his arrogance

at believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and my mother, and

the utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap in the face

that this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in favor of my

mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to live with

(which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't want to be

this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard, very

delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think of

myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that of

you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

>

> How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you use?

Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited relationship

with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some strategies in my

toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any tips?

>

[Guest guest]

- I'm jumping in here since you asked about the effect of a Nada on

spouses & kids - like Annie's sister, I'm faced with a Nada who's now in

assisted living, has had episodes of dementia (seems to be much better now that

her medication is being monitored), so I had to take on a more active role in

her care in the past year. And like Annie's sister, I am using professional

resources (the assisted living home, a hospice home-care staff, etc.) to provide

as much close-up care as possible, while I concentrate on handling bills and

paperwork. If I can reach my goal of only seeing my mother once a month, for

just as long as it takes to drop off clothing and supplies she's asked for, I

will be satisfied that it's as good as it's going to get, for as long as she

lives. There is no emotional attachment. It's just another set of chores,

caring for a sick old woman who deserves a measure of compassion, but no other

personal emotional investment from me.

And as to my husband and son - they helped me deliver a load of furniture to her

room when she first moved, and they helped me a LOT when I had to clean out her

apartment and store or throw out her hoarder's nest. But they are not expected

(by me) to go visit her. Not at all. Never again. It's not her fault she's

mentally ill, but she's toxic to her family members. I'm not letting her spew

that onto my husband and son. Enough is enough. She asks about them, and I just

make up whatever excuse seems most plausible. They have absolutely no wish to

see her. They have to put up with the fact that some of my time (and some of my

income) goes to her, but that's as far as it goes, for us. I know everybody has

their own tolerance level and degree of involvement - what is working for me

(for now) may not work for a lot of other people. We have to do what we're able

and willing to do, and not feel guilty that it's not enough.

> > >

> > > Annie,

> > > I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing with

your nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with with

your nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend more

time with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50 chance)

for around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and sometimes even

let things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the strain on my

husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother - and she is

especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks embedded in

humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface she is often

angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we don't jump

at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger sister does

- who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just was wondering

if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband and kids with

nada?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for this posting, it is very helpful. I have changed my contact with

my nada a great deal now. She lives alone in a big home when near me half the

year and in a smaller but independent house and alone when away from me the

other half. Both my sisters seem rather emeshed with nada and fawn all over her.

I seem to be the black sheep now, along with my husband. Not sure why, have our

guesses, but as everyone here knows it is really a wild guess. All I know is

that what I am able to do for and with her has changed. My dad died this year

and initially all the family seemed close and helped one another grieve and

begin to heal, but it didn't take long for things to go back to old divisions

and roles and nada got a lot worse. I know my dad absorbed a lot of what I now

see and feel from her.

I can only keep contact with her if I structure my visits with her to my liking.

Typically I visit her every week and a half and ask her to choose something she

would like to get done. We do that plus have lunch together and play a board

game we like togehter. It works well in a four hour block and I still get home

in time for dinner with my family. I no longer ask my adult children or husband

to join me. I tell them when I am going and on a rare occasion one will join me.

We still do family gatherings about three times a year and these are very

difficult for us. These I have requested to keep to 3-4 hours now and get a lot

of flack for it, but I had to. My guilt is less now because I have come to see

that it doesn't matter what I do or say, or what we do or say. There is no

pleasing nada unless you totally yield to her, and I can't nor won't. I know I

am better off as is my family, but it is very difficult. I mourn the loss of my

dad terribly and the loss of what I thought I had with my nada. I can't discuss

this with my sisters and I know they judge me for my pulling back, but it has to

be. I hope someday we (sisters) will be able to discuss all this in a healthy

mutually respectful way, but have my doubts.

Thank you,

> > > >

> > > > Annie,

> > > > I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing

with your nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with

with your nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend

more time with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50

chance) for around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and

sometimes even let things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the

strain on my husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother -

and she is especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks

embedded in humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface

she is often angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we

don't jump at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger

sister does - who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just

was wondering if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband

and kids with nada?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Thank you so very much for posting this. It is very helpful. It affirms some of

the changes I have made with my interaction with nada and gives me courage to

keep at it.

Be well,

> >

> > Annie,

> > Thank you, that would be great.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good for you, Chris; in my opinion any grandmother who would say something like

that and refer to her granddaughter as " it " *should* be escorted out of the

hospital, pronto. Good Lord, that gives me the chills. Holy Freaking Cow.

Good job to you too, " mama bear. "

-Annie

> >

> > I know that I can't control my mom's illness, and that how I deal with it is

entirely my choice. My trouble is that I am finding it really hard not to be

black and white with it - either I am all in and drowning in her crises, or I am

all out and the butt of judgment with the rest of my family, and an outcast. I

am really having trouble finding that middle ground and would love any insight

people have as to how you've found ways to let the drama roll off your

shoulders??

> >

> > An example of what I mean:

> >

> > I have been NC with my mom for a little over a year, during which time I

actually got happy and felt secure enough to become pregnant after months of

giving up. It's my mom's first grandchild and at the advice of my doctors and

therapists, I decided not to tell her about it as my track record of handling

mom-related stress was not good and could put me and the baby at risk.

> >

> > I did pretty well for eight whole months. I missed having the mom I remember

from childhood with me during the pregnancy but was glad to avoid the fallout

from her possible suicide attempt right around my birthday in July and the

ensuing family drama that followed. But, through circumstances I had only

limited control over, my stepfather (who also stopped speaking to me when he saw

that I wasn't going to engage with my mom's crisis pattern) found out about my

pregnancy and decided that this was unacceptable and took it upon himself to

tell my mom as well.

> >

> > I'm honestly ok with the fact that my mom knows now - in a way it's a relief

not to have to hide any more. But what really bothers me is my stepfather's

blind, crass judgment of me without ever asking me for my reasons, his arrogance

at believing he knows what's best for me, my growing family, and my mother, and

the utter lack of respect he showed by doing this. It was a slap in the face

that this " father figure " would automatically turn his back on me in favor of my

mother, who he KNOWS has emotional imbalances and is impossible to live with

(which is why he lives in New York and she lives in Florida). I don't want to be

this angry, I don't want my family torn apart because of a very hard, very

delicate decision I made for myself and my baby, and I don't want to think of

myself as selfish. But man, it's harsh when your closest relatives think that of

you and don't even give you a chance to stand up for yourself. I hate how BPD

and other mental illnesses stir up so much drama, and I hate that I get sucked

in EVERY SINGLE TIME.

> >

> > How do you keep yourself from getting sucked in? Are there strategies you

use? Seriously - my goal is to try to reestablish some sort of limited

relationship with my mom after the baby is born, but I am going to need some

strategies in my toolbox to help me when (not if) things get out of control. Any

tips?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

- I hope your sisters will come around and begin to understand the truth

about your mom - it would be wonderful to have " backup " and somebody to share

the load, or to strategize about ways to deal with her craziness.

I'm so sorry you lost your dad. It sounds like he was an important ally for

you. I wanted to mention that after my mother-in-law died, we faced the first

major " family holiday " - and decided to go to a beach resort town and stay in a

rented condo with my father-in-law and my husband's brother for the Thanksgiving

weekend. We loaded up the groceries for the big feast, I cooked, and we spent

the rest of the time riding our bikes, walking on the beach, and watching the

Bond marathon on TBS. It was very different than what we would have been

" expected " to do when MIL was alive. She was the keeper of the traditions.

Rather than try to re-create what she would have done (stuffy family dinner at

her house), we just did something completely different. Although we did

remember her during the grace before dinner, the trip gave all of us a chance to

get through that first set of holidays without it being so obvious that she was

missing. I think that helped her husband and sons deal with that first

milestone.

That experience stood me in good stead when it became apparent that my mother

was going to try and saddle my family with " holiday traditions " that center on

tiptoeing around her and doing whatever she wants, just to keep the peace. As

it turns out, family get-togethers aren't really mandatory, and just because

your family has done something a certain way for years, doesn't mean you can't

try something new - especially when you have your own family to think about.

The year of a death in the family is a perfect time to make changes - it can't

ever be like it was before, anyway, so maybe this presents an opportunity to

make another plan for those family events. This is one time when I'd opt for

something active and distracting (bowling? hiking? a trip to the zoo?) rather

than being stuck in the living room, just waiting for all hell to break loose.

Just a thought.

> > > > >

> > > > > Annie,

> > > > > I appreciate your sharing about your sister and you and your dealing

with your nada. Does your sister have a husband and children to also deal with

with your nada? I ask because usually with enough time in between, I can spend

more time with my nada (after an emotionally draining visit - about a 50/50

chance) for around 4 hours. I seem to be able to heal up and go back and

sometimes even let things roll off me (not as well as your sister yet). But the

strain on my husband and adult kids is another story. She is not their mother -

and she is especially taxing to my husband. She often makes cutting remarks

embedded in humor about, or to him and I definately feel just under the surface

she is often angry at me or him, or both. Don't have any idea why except that we

don't jump at her beck and call and shower her with attention (like my younger

sister does - who I fear may also be BP -and who is emeshed with nada). I just

was wondering if your sister had any suggestions for me concerning my husband

and kids with nada?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>