Re: Magic and the Magic Wand

[Guest guest]

Sorry pdf, but I personally can't put a good spin on abuse.

I don't think that hideous, chronic physical and emotional and sexual abuse

inflicted on kids makes us better people. I think we have managed to survive

and are doing as well as we are *in spite of* the abuse we endured, not

*because* of it.

While I agree that we can grow and become stronger, better adults by facing

normal challenges, and while I agree that we can share love and support and

validation with each other here as we face life's challenges, I can't agree that

deliberately inflicted parental abuse has any place in the great scheme of

things. Raping and beating and emotionally traumatizing one's own children is

unnatural, its an aberration, and no child should have to endure it.

I find your comments that we here are " not appreciative " of having been abused

by our parents (?) and that " pain creates magic " (?) both bizarre and

invalidating.

Yes, it is wonderful that we have the Internet and can gather together here and

share what is and isn't working for us, as individuals. This new technology is

pretty " magical " , I agree.

And I'm glad that you found a philosophy that works for you and is bringing you

peace and healing. Its good to share the things that bring us peace and healing

from our psychological injuries. If you have meditations or things that work

for you, please do share them.

But please allow others here to find and utilize what works for us,

individually, without judging our paths by saying that we " should " be grateful

for having been abused, and that by sharing our suffering/pain here we are

" causing the universe to suffer. "

I find that very judgmental, invalidating and unsupportive.

-Annie

>

> Hi saragaza00. Aw yes, the magic wand. What if one of us found this magic

wand, would it really making things better or would it just create another kind

of hell.

>

> I think pain is a natural think and it happens for a reason. Yes, it sucks.

However, it is a part of nature; it is a part of being.

>

> There is magic in the world and we should use it when we find it. Just

recently Annie showed me where to find some magic to help me with my fatigue

issues (thank you Annie). Everyone on this list has magic to share, but a magic

wand that would take away all our pain is a very scary idea. With out our pain,

we would be dead inside with no motivation to live. Our pain makes life worth

while.

>

> According to the Buddha, it is not our pain that causes suffering, but our

refusal to acknowledge it and accept it. Only after we accept our pain can we

find ways to resolve what is causing it.

>

> The Buddha also taught that our pain has so much more significance than just

our own suffering. It is a high calling. When you choose to accept your pain,

you are choosing to unlock magic that benefits everyone [a very general

paraphrase]. Likewise, when we choose to suffer, we also cause suffering on

others.

>

> Are any of you Harry Potter fans. Does Harry Potter have an easy life free of

struggles? No; he is constantly having to find ways of using magic to save

himself and his fellows.

>

> Pain makes magic possible and this is a very magical age that we live in.

Without pain, there is no magic. If you think of things like this, you might

see that we KOs are extremely blessed and important to the human community.

When one of us practices magic, it is powerful magic indeed.

>

> I hear too many people on this list who are not grateful for their great

blessing. This list is for those who wish to become great and powerful wizards

of magic. Seize the moment!

[Guest guest]

Sorry, pdf, but you are being judgmental when you say that my pain is not so

great, compared to what other people have suffered. That is very invalidating.

My own personal feelings about paths to peace and healing is that there are many

ways to find these things, and none of them are morally or ethically superior

to another. Its all about finding what works for you, personally, as an

individual, because we are each unique individuals and come from different

abusive situations.

If a Christian person wants to post, " This is what works for me " , and share a

prayer or the link to a Bible passage that has helped him or her feel better,

then, that's wonderful. If you as a Buddhist person want to post, " This is what

works for me " and share a meditation or practice that has helped you find inner

peace, then, that's wonderful too. If a Zoroastrian or Wiccan or whoever wants

to share what works for them, that's cool too. If someone who prefers

non-traditional healing methods wants to post about things that work for him or

her, like massage, or yoga, or herbal remedies, or whatever, then, by all means

do so.

But you don't seem to be able to stop there; you feel compelled to add, " This

works for me...and what you are doing is wrong. This is the only, the best, the

right way to find peace and healing. If you don't follow THIS path, you are

wrong / bad / selfish / evil / foolish / hopelessly misguided / part of the

conspiracy, etc. "

THAT'S what I am objecting to.

Please DO share what works for you, but please allow each person here to make

his or her own choices free of negative judgement or proselytizing for your

particular belief system.

Sharing our hurt and trauma here is validating, and it has helped me and others

to realize that we are not the only person who had an abusive childhood. You

seem to be advocating for us to stop doing that, for some reason, which I find

bewildering.

I hope you can share what works for you without adding that how I am choosing to

heal myself is " wrong. "

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi saragaza00. Aw yes, the magic wand. What if one of us found this

magic wand, would it really making things better or would it just create another

kind of hell.

> > >

> > > I think pain is a natural think and it happens for a reason. Yes, it

sucks. However, it is a part of nature; it is a part of being.

> > >

> > > There is magic in the world and we should use it when we find it. Just

recently Annie showed me where to find some magic to help me with my fatigue

issues (thank you Annie). Everyone on this list has magic to share, but a magic

wand that would take away all our pain is a very scary idea. With out our pain,

we would be dead inside with no motivation to live. Our pain makes life worth

while.

> > >

> > > According to the Buddha, it is not our pain that causes suffering, but our

refusal to acknowledge it and accept it. Only after we accept our pain can we

find ways to resolve what is causing it.

> > >

> > > The Buddha also taught that our pain has so much more significance than

just our own suffering. It is a high calling. When you choose to accept your

pain, you are choosing to unlock magic that benefits everyone [a very general

paraphrase]. Likewise, when we choose to suffer, we also cause suffering on

others.

> > >

> > > Are any of you Harry Potter fans. Does Harry Potter have an easy life

free of struggles? No; he is constantly having to find ways of using magic to

save himself and his fellows.

> > >

> > > Pain makes magic possible and this is a very magical age that we live in.

Without pain, there is no magic. If you think of things like this, you might

see that we KOs are extremely blessed and important to the human community.

When one of us practices magic, it is powerful magic indeed.

> > >

> > > I hear too many people on this list who are not grateful for their great

blessing. This list is for those who wish to become great and powerful wizards

of magic. Seize the moment!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, pdf, thanks for your thoughts, I don't wanna upset anyone here, but I kind

of find your approach a bit hard to connect to - what I mean is, I feel that you

are telling me that there is one 'right' way to see things, when in fact, I see

things really differently to you. And my perspective is just as valid as yours.

For example, you said:

" Our childhoods sucked; because it sucked we have great pain. Because we have

great pain, we now get to be a part of something great. This is not saying that

we praise God that we were abused; this is saying that we can be grateful to

have solutions to our pain. We have great hope, as is the testimony of this

group. "

I don't see how you can tell me 'we now get to be a part of something great.' I

just don't see it like that. At all. So if you'd said, 'I feel like I get to be

a part of something great,' I would get it. But I don't get how you can tell me

that I get to be part of something great, when that's not how I feel. I guess I

just wanted to explain that.

Also, I feel as though pointing out other people's suffering is not that

helpful. I know other people suffer more than me. In fact one of the reasons why

it's taken me so long to see a therapist is because I feel I haven't suffered

enough to justify it. That I should be grateful for what I have because I wasn't

sexually abused/a child soldier/caught up in a famine in Somalia etc etc. But I

spend a lot of my life really really really depressed and scared and sad and

wondering if I could manage to trip under a lorry the next time I go out. I wish

thinking about the famine in East Africa helped me think differently but it

doesn't unfortunately and (in my stronger days) I think its okay for me to want

to not be sad and scared all the time.

Sigh. Not sure I make sense anymore. Long day. Feeling tired.

Wishing you well in any case!

Sara

> > > >

> > > > Hi saragaza00. Aw yes, the magic wand. What if one of us found this

magic wand, would it really making things better or would it just create another

kind of hell.

> > > >

> > > > I think pain is a natural think and it happens for a reason. Yes, it

sucks. However, it is a part of nature; it is a part of being.

> > > >

> > > > There is magic in the world and we should use it when we find it. Just

recently Annie showed me where to find some magic to help me with my fatigue

issues (thank you Annie). Everyone on this list has magic to share, but a magic

wand that would take away all our pain is a very scary idea. With out our pain,

we would be dead inside with no motivation to live. Our pain makes life worth

while.

> > > >

> > > > According to the Buddha, it is not our pain that causes suffering, but

our refusal to acknowledge it and accept it. Only after we accept our pain can

we find ways to resolve what is causing it.

> > > >

> > > > The Buddha also taught that our pain has so much more significance than

just our own suffering. It is a high calling. When you choose to accept your

pain, you are choosing to unlock magic that benefits everyone [a very general

paraphrase]. Likewise, when we choose to suffer, we also cause suffering on

others.

> > > >

> > > > Are any of you Harry Potter fans. Does Harry Potter have an easy life

free of struggles? No; he is constantly having to find ways of using magic to

save himself and his fellows.

> > > >

> > > > Pain makes magic possible and this is a very magical age that we live

in. Without pain, there is no magic. If you think of things like this, you

might see that we KOs are extremely blessed and important to the human

community. When one of us practices magic, it is powerful magic indeed.

> > > >

> > > > I hear too many people on this list who are not grateful for their great

blessing. This list is for those who wish to become great and powerful wizards

of magic. Seize the moment!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

May I butt in just for a moment and say that I wish everybody could disagree

and discuss things as calmly and rationally as the people on this group?

I still have this fear of conflict, and when I saw these posts, I thought,

" Oh no! Conflict! " but after taking a chance and reading everyone's

responses, it reminds me that people can and do disagree reasonably. And it

reminds me that people can disagree and still be able to talk to each other

when the day is done. I still struggle with that, just as I'm actively

beating back my conflict fear just to write this email.

So--thanks

> **

>

>

>

> Hey, pdf, thanks for your thoughts, I don't wanna upset anyone here, but I

> kind of find your approach a bit hard to connect to - what I mean is, I feel

> that you are telling me that there is one 'right' way to see things, when in

> fact, I see things really differently to you. And my perspective is just as

> valid as yours. For example, you said:

>

> " Our childhoods sucked; because it sucked we have great pain. Because we

> have great pain, we now get to be a part of something great. This is not

> saying that we praise God that we were abused; this is saying that we can be

> grateful to have solutions to our pain. We have great hope, as is the

> testimony of this group. "

>

> I don't see how you can tell me 'we now get to be a part of something

> great.' I just don't see it like that. At all. So if you'd said, 'I feel

> like I get to be a part of something great,' I would get it. But I don't get

> how you can tell me that I get to be part of something great, when that's

> not how I feel. I guess I just wanted to explain that.

>

> Also, I feel as though pointing out other people's suffering is not that

> helpful. I know other people suffer more than me. In fact one of the reasons

> why it's taken me so long to see a therapist is because I feel I haven't

> suffered enough to justify it. That I should be grateful for what I have

> because I wasn't sexually abused/a child soldier/caught up in a famine in

> Somalia etc etc. But I spend a lot of my life really really really depressed

> and scared and sad and wondering if I could manage to trip under a lorry the

> next time I go out. I wish thinking about the famine in East Africa helped

> me think differently but it doesn't unfortunately and (in my stronger days)

> I think its okay for me to want to not be sad and scared all the time.

>

> Sigh. Not sure I make sense anymore. Long day. Feeling tired.

>

> Wishing you well in any case!

>

> Sara

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi saragaza00. Aw yes, the magic wand. What if one of us found this

> magic wand, would it really making things better or would it just create

> another kind of hell.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think pain is a natural think and it happens for a reason. Yes,

> it sucks. However, it is a part of nature; it is a part of being.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is magic in the world and we should use it when we find it.

> Just recently Annie showed me where to find some magic to help me with my

> fatigue issues (thank you Annie). Everyone on this list has magic to share,

> but a magic wand that would take away all our pain is a very scary idea.

> With out our pain, we would be dead inside with no motivation to live. Our

> pain makes life worth while.

> > > > >

> > > > > According to the Buddha, it is not our pain that causes suffering,

> but our refusal to acknowledge it and accept it. Only after we accept our

> pain can we find ways to resolve what is causing it.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Buddha also taught that our pain has so much more significance

> than just our own suffering. It is a high calling. When you choose to accept

> your pain, you are choosing to unlock magic that benefits everyone [a very

> general paraphrase]. Likewise, when we choose to suffer, we also cause

> suffering on others.

> > > > >

> > > > > Are any of you Harry Potter fans. Does Harry Potter have an easy

> life free of struggles? No; he is constantly having to find ways of using

> magic to save himself and his fellows.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pain makes magic possible and this is a very magical age that we

> live in. Without pain, there is no magic. If you think of things like this,

> you might see that we KOs are extremely blessed and important to the human

> community. When one of us practices magic, it is powerful magic indeed.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hear too many people on this list who are not grateful for their

> great blessing. This list is for those who wish to become great and powerful

> wizards of magic. Seize the moment!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I second that Holly, i think this is one of the most respectful and kind groups

online that i have ever been a part of. Online groups can get quite mean and

full of conflict. I can't even handle facebook, pele disagree with my posts and

it ruins my day. So i am always amazed at my ability to participate here, and

it's totally because people here are careful with their words and respectful of

others' feelings.

Thanks everyone.

Terri

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi saragaza00. Aw yes, the magic wand. What if one of us found this

> > magic wand, would it really making things better or would it just create

> > another kind of hell.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think pain is a natural think and it happens for a reason. Yes,

> > it sucks. However, it is a part of nature; it is a part of being.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is magic in the world and we should use it when we find it.

> > Just recently Annie showed me where to find some magic to help me with my

> > fatigue issues (thank you Annie). Everyone on this list has magic to share,

> > but a magic wand that would take away all our pain is a very scary idea.

> > With out our pain, we would be dead inside with no motivation to live. Our

> > pain makes life worth while.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > According to the Buddha, it is not our pain that causes suffering,

> > but our refusal to acknowledge it and accept it. Only after we accept our

> > pain can we find ways to resolve what is causing it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Buddha also taught that our pain has so much more significance

> > than just our own suffering. It is a high calling. When you choose to accept

> > your pain, you are choosing to unlock magic that benefits everyone [a very

> > general paraphrase]. Likewise, when we choose to suffer, we also cause

> > suffering on others.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Are any of you Harry Potter fans. Does Harry Potter have an easy

> > life free of struggles? No; he is constantly having to find ways of using

> > magic to save himself and his fellows.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pain makes magic possible and this is a very magical age that we

> > live in. Without pain, there is no magic. If you think of things like this,

> > you might see that we KOs are extremely blessed and important to the human

> > community. When one of us practices magic, it is powerful magic indeed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I hear too many people on this list who are not grateful for their

> > great blessing. This list is for those who wish to become great and powerful

> > wizards of magic. Seize the moment!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>