Re: BPD improving with age?

[Guest guest]

I've read this many times, but my nada has actually gotten progressively worse

with age.

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

I really don't agree with that article, but I have seen similar articles. Maybe

it varies from person to person, but my mother got waaaay worse as she got

older. Maybe I just noticed and understood it more when I was older. She went

from the waif/hermit when I was a child to the queen/witch/waif/hermit when I

was a teenager and young adult. She died in 2007, but she made my teenage years

and young adult years unbearably miserable...trying to micromanage my life to

the extreme by literally stalking me at times. It was awful. She then got sick

and was just back to being a waify victim again. It nauseates me to think about

it. Her phobias intensified (and she had a " panic attack " over eeeeeverything)

and she constantly threatened suicide. I feel sad that she lived such an

unhappy life. I really do.

BPD improving with age?

Hi

A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

" Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my memories

of the past.

My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing with

it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't on

this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me to

read this, so I thought I'd post it.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Hmmm - so I guess it's like I thought - it's the lifer's on this board. Didn't

mean to upset anyone, just curious if anyone had experienced the same trajectory

as me, but then, like I said, they probably aren't here.

>

> I really don't agree with that article, but I have seen similar articles.

Maybe it varies from person to person, but my mother got waaaay worse as she got

older. Maybe I just noticed and understood it more when I was older. She went

from the waif/hermit when I was a child to the queen/witch/waif/hermit when I

was a teenager and young adult. She died in 2007, but she made my teenage years

and young adult years unbearably miserable...trying to micromanage my life to

the extreme by literally stalking me at times. It was awful. She then got sick

and was just back to being a waify victim again. It nauseates me to think about

it. Her phobias intensified (and she had a " panic attack " over eeeeeverything)

and she constantly threatened suicide. I feel sad that she lived such an

unhappy life. I really do.

>

>

>

>

>

> BPD improving with age?

>

>

>

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Randi Kreger, the owner of this Group and author of two well-researched books on

borderline pd, has written about this also. Randi has pointed out that those

with bpd who are (a) minor teens or young adults, ( very low-functioning and

© suicidal are the patients whose parents get them into treatment. Younger

bpd patients who begin treatment earlier in life tend to respond better to

dialectical behavioral therapy and sometimes drug therapy (usually prescribed

for co-morbid Axis I conditions) and become more emotionally stabilized and less

suicidal; this type of bpd patient gets counted in the stats simply because they

are in the system, getting treatment.

Higher-functioning adults with personality disorder, including those with bpd,

do not tend to seek treatment for themselves, so they are not " in the system "

getting counted by the statisticians.

It does seem that my nada, who was formally diagnosed with bpd in middle age

(and the nadas of a lot of other members here at this Group) are more " high

functioning " and tend to exhibit their bpd behaviors throughout life. Some,

like mine, even act out with more frequency and intensity as they age, and

some, like mine, end up being diagnosed with full-blown dementia.

So, the author you found may not be aware of why the stats appear to indicate

that bpd is a " young woman's disorder that improves with age. "

-Annie

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine

was extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time.

Part of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

> >

> > Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but

they are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk

about recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

> >

> > Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> > http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

> >

> > " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

> >

> > So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

> >

> >

> > My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

> >

> > Terri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Randi Kregers theory is a good one and probably will be supported with research

in the future.

Another possible explanation is that BPs do tend to get better " functioning "

later in life and more resistant to treatment. BPs may even shed most of their

overt BPD traits later in life, converting them into forms that are no longer

recognizable to research clinicians. BPs may simple evolve into a new stage of

dysfunction that is less visible to others outside of the immediate family. BPs

that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new symptoms

like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized anxiety...

There is a lot more research that needs to be done and is in the process of

being done. We still don't know a lot about BPD. We think we do, but we really

don't. The future has a lot to teach us about BPD. The DSM V promises to paint

a different picture that the one we have now. I can hardly wait to see it.

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine

was extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time.

Part of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

> > >

> > > Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but

they are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk

about recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

> > >

> > > Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> > > http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

> > >

> > > " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and

usually begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is

usually chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many

years. About one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide.

However, in the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to

" burn out " in middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the

ages of thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown.

However, other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial

personality and substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

> > >

> > > So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still

dealing with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better

aren't on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful

to me to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

> > >

> > > Terri

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mom seemed fine for many years, that is, until I got pregnant and now we are

living in crazy land riding the crazy train :-(

Hope your situation doesn't get worse.

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Another interesting thread.

My nada has certainly changed with age - at one point, several years ago, I'd

sort of 'forgotten' that she was crazy and allowed her to visit me abroad for

2.5 weeks. Big mistake. She reverted to the snappy, rude, aggressive, shouty

nada she'd been throughout my childhood. I think that her behaviours are often

only triggered after a few days (perhaps when my concentration goes and I forget

to 'mirror' her) and so I'd thought she was 'normal'/'better' whereas in fact,

for years, I'd only seen her in small doses where she'd been able to keep a grip

on herself.

I thought this was interesting: (I think posted by pdf)

" BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new

symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

I think that my nada also seems more 'normal' now because she has learned that

she can no longer snap at me, say blatantly horrible things, scream at me etc.

without triggering a meltdown in me (yelling, crying, threatening to leave the

situation.) Unbeknownst to me I was sort of putting boundaries in place with all

my meltdowns over the course of my early adult years and so her behaviour seems

less unreasonable now. But at the same time she's now in the midst of a

psychotic episode, linked to some sort of agrophobia and hypochondria. In the

absence of a totally helpless child to abuse or a completely enabling spouse,

perhaps that's how it develops.

It's interesting I think.

Cheerio

Sara

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine

was extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time.

Part of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

> >

> > Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but

they are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk

about recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

> >

> > Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> > http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

> >

> > " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

> >

> > So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

> >

> >

> > My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

> >

> > Terri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all

Thanks for the feedback. Again I can't say enough how I don't at all mean to

invalidate the experiences of people here. You all have my sympathies, I lived

through it too, just not as recently. I'm just looking for someone in my

situation.

Some possible answers:

THERAPY

My nada got 30 years of therapy. This might sound strange, but she was an incest

survivor, and for that reason she found therapy acceptable and focused on that

issue. However I think it was her NPD mother who did most of the damage - scary

as that is to say.

My father did a lot of this therapy with her in 10 years of couples counseling

(they got divorced when he thought I was old enough for him to get custody) and

he has told me the history, because of course she won't. Dad said a therapist

suggested BPD, but I think she fell short of having enough of the checklist of

symptoms. Not that it mattered, I read Understanding the Borderline Mother and

underlined almost all of it. Finally my anger made sense.

The point is though that she did have several therapists over the years, maybe

they taught her something to help her keep herself in check. She has asked me

many times to be very explicit about what I want from her, because she says " She

doesn't know " (this was after I told her that she can't call her 2 yr old

granddaughter's dress ugly. She actually needed me to explain to her why that

was bad. She said " So I can't say anything negative at all? " I said no, mom.

Nothing negative to the child. Ever. If you need to say something negative, talk

about politics. " She seemed to appreciate this detailed direction and has stuck

to it. It struck me then, and many other times, that she sounds like she's

following directions from a therapist on how to figure out how to behave,

because she just has no idea naturally.

CHANGING DIRECTIONS:

This also interested me:

" BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new

symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

My nada was always a tower of strength, but lately has become a hypochondriac,

constantly running to doctors and every phone call starts with trying to get

sympathy from me for her health. I am very mean and never give her much, she

never gave me any. Anyway feeding it would only make it worse. She manages to

get 'sick' whenever I need anything.

I also constantly stop remembering that she is crazy, and treat her like I would

a normal person, and then the crazy comes out. So maybe it's also that we have

both learned how to deal with each other to prevent problems. For my part, I

don't ever expect anything from her or tell her anything too personal or

challenge her crazy comments. She holds it together because she knows I can go

NC at anytime, and will.

While she doesn't lash out anymore, it's still like talking to a space alien

sometimes. Every time I see her I need a decompression session with my spouse or

father or step-mom. So I don't think she's normal by any means. I just want to

understand how it is that she was SO mean and aggressive when I was little, and

now is not.

Terri

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure why you're taking offense (at least that's how I'm perceiving what

you wrote. It's kinda hard to tell in writing sometimes). I wasn't intending to

be offensive simply by disagreeing with an article. As I said, it probably

varies from person to person and what the article describes was not my

experience. It doesn't necessarily make it " right or wrong. " Nothing is back

and white.

And what's a " Lifer? "

BPD improving with age?

>

>

>

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hope it isn't the case, but if your nada is over 60 and starting to experience

psychotic episodes, that could possibly be an early sign of dementia. Its just

anecdotal, but my nada behaved very similarly to yours in that she could behave

normally for two or three days of a visit, but then she'd start in on the

snappish, irritable, critical, rude, insulting behaviors, as though she'd

reached her limit for how long she could maintain the effort of wearing the

" nice " mask.

If senile dementia is diagnosed early, depending on what's causing it there are

some treatments that can delay its progress.

Here's an article about dementia:

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/dementia_overview/article_em.htm

-Annie

>

> Another interesting thread.

>

> My nada has certainly changed with age - at one point, several years ago, I'd

sort of 'forgotten' that she was crazy and allowed her to visit me abroad for

2.5 weeks. Big mistake. She reverted to the snappy, rude, aggressive, shouty

nada she'd been throughout my childhood. I think that her behaviours are often

only triggered after a few days (perhaps when my concentration goes and I forget

to 'mirror' her) and so I'd thought she was 'normal'/'better' whereas in fact,

for years, I'd only seen her in small doses where she'd been able to keep a grip

on herself.

>

> I thought this was interesting: (I think posted by pdf)

>

> " BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new

symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

>

> I think that my nada also seems more 'normal' now because she has learned that

she can no longer snap at me, say blatantly horrible things, scream at me etc.

without triggering a meltdown in me (yelling, crying, threatening to leave the

situation.) Unbeknownst to me I was sort of putting boundaries in place with all

my meltdowns over the course of my early adult years and so her behaviour seems

less unreasonable now. But at the same time she's now in the midst of a

psychotic episode, linked to some sort of agrophobia and hypochondria. In the

absence of a totally helpless child to abuse or a completely enabling spouse,

perhaps that's how it develops.

>

> It's interesting I think.

>

> Cheerio

>

> Sara

[Guest guest]

That's interesting (fascinating, to me) that your nada had/has noticeable

difficulty with understanding how to relate to other people in a kind and

thoughtful way, but will respond well to specific instructions such as " do not

make negative comments about the two year old; if you feel the need to say

something negative, talk about politics. "

There have been several studies now that seem to indicate that those with bpd

have difficulty recognizing and interpreting the facial expressions of others

accurately, and tend to interpret neutral expressions, tones, and words

negatively.

The researchers were trying to determine if inability to " read " others

accurately is related to emotional dysregulation. This fascinates me because I

have mentioned for years that I think my nada had/has a " negative filter "

because she would so often interpret simply neutral expressions or activities or

words from me as negative, rude, or insulting to her. For example, I'd be

reading a book and she'd see me just sitting there reading and she'd ask me

" What are you so angry about, are you pissed off at me? " and that might launch

her into a little rage fit at me.

So, Voila! Researchers have apparently noticed the same thing in other bpd

patients. Here is the link to one article about a research study on this. I

used to have the link to a very readable public article on the subject but I

lost all my library of links recently. But here is a brief on one of the

studies:

http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:QEbIAXYEkCEJ:scholar.google\

..com/ & hl=en & as_sdt=0,5

-Annie

>

> Hi all

>

> Thanks for the feedback. Again I can't say enough how I don't at all mean to

invalidate the experiences of people here. You all have my sympathies, I lived

through it too, just not as recently. I'm just looking for someone in my

situation.

>

>

> Some possible answers:

> THERAPY

> My nada got 30 years of therapy. This might sound strange, but she was an

incest survivor, and for that reason she found therapy acceptable and focused on

that issue. However I think it was her NPD mother who did most of the damage -

scary as that is to say.

>

> My father did a lot of this therapy with her in 10 years of couples counseling

(they got divorced when he thought I was old enough for him to get custody) and

he has told me the history, because of course she won't. Dad said a therapist

suggested BPD, but I think she fell short of having enough of the checklist of

symptoms. Not that it mattered, I read Understanding the Borderline Mother and

underlined almost all of it. Finally my anger made sense.

>

> The point is though that she did have several therapists over the years, maybe

they taught her something to help her keep herself in check. She has asked me

many times to be very explicit about what I want from her, because she says " She

doesn't know " (this was after I told her that she can't call her 2 yr old

granddaughter's dress ugly. She actually needed me to explain to her why that

was bad. She said " So I can't say anything negative at all? " I said no, mom.

Nothing negative to the child. Ever. If you need to say something negative, talk

about politics. " She seemed to appreciate this detailed direction and has stuck

to it. It struck me then, and many other times, that she sounds like she's

following directions from a therapist on how to figure out how to behave,

because she just has no idea naturally.

>

> CHANGING DIRECTIONS:

> This also interested me:

> " BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new

symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

>

> My nada was always a tower of strength, but lately has become a hypochondriac,

constantly running to doctors and every phone call starts with trying to get

sympathy from me for her health. I am very mean and never give her much, she

never gave me any. Anyway feeding it would only make it worse. She manages to

get 'sick' whenever I need anything.

>

> I also constantly stop remembering that she is crazy, and treat her like I

would a normal person, and then the crazy comes out. So maybe it's also that we

have both learned how to deal with each other to prevent problems. For my part,

I don't ever expect anything from her or tell her anything too personal or

challenge her crazy comments. She holds it together because she knows I can go

NC at anytime, and will.

>

> While she doesn't lash out anymore, it's still like talking to a space alien

sometimes. Every time I see her I need a decompression session with my spouse or

father or step-mom. So I don't think she's normal by any means. I just want to

understand how it is that she was SO mean and aggressive when I was little, and

now is not.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Terri,

Thanks for sharing your experiences ! My own are somewhat different.

Although there have been periods of relative " normalcy, " during which I

would become lulled into a false sense of security, and periods of

interaction with others during which she was consistently charming,

engaging and conspicuously benevolent, the PD symptoms and behaviors would,

eventually arise, and her distorted perceptions would throw everything

into a tailspin when we least expected it.

One of the most disturbing traits my Nada exhibited was, as my son called

it, " selective batsh*t, " in which she would seem fine around a select group

of people, such as at work, or book-club, or even other family members, but

*selectively *project her most toxic distortions, and destructive acting out

onto one or two people, or, again, a small " *selec*t " group of individuals

who will act to pacify, deflect or conceal her outlandish behaviors.

Another horrible aspect, is the " follie a deaux, " situation, in which

the instabilities and distorted thinking of two psychologically disordered

individuals create a shared reality that further justifies and intensifies

their shared acting-out., ( " God help us) Sometimes, when I thought my Nada

was " better,' she was actually just focusing on someone or something else.

These are, for what they are worth, my own experiences.

There are I understand, many, many levels and intensities of experience,

and disorder among PDs, and their families. If one speaks to different

members of the same family, with a PD member, you will hear different

experiences and perceptions regarding the same interactions, and events,

with the same individual. plus, their own accounts of the same event may

change every time they recount it. This, is in part what makes the PDs so

exasperating and difficult to deal with.

I'm going to

pull my blanket over my head and rock for a little while. Sunspot

> **

>

>

> Hi all

>

> Thanks for the feedback. Again I can't say enough how I don't at all mean

> to invalidate the experiences of people here. You all have my sympathies, I

> lived through it too, just not as recently. I'm just looking for someone in

> my situation.

>

> Some possible answers:

> THERAPY

> My nada got 30 years of therapy. This might sound strange, but she was an

> incest survivor, and for that reason she found therapy acceptable and

> focused on that issue. However I think it was her NPD mother who did most of

> the damage - scary as that is to say.

>

> My father did a lot of this therapy with her in 10 years of couples

> counseling (they got divorced when he thought I was old enough for him to

> get custody) and he has told me the history, because of course she won't.

> Dad said a therapist suggested BPD, but I think she fell short of having

> enough of the checklist of symptoms. Not that it mattered, I read

> Understanding the Borderline Mother and underlined almost all of it. Finally

> my anger made sense.

>

> The point is though that she did have several therapists over the years,

> maybe they taught her something to help her keep herself in check. She has

> asked me many times to be very explicit about what I want from her, because

> she says " She doesn't know " (this was after I told her that she can't call

> her 2 yr old granddaughter's dress ugly. She actually needed me to explain

> to her why that was bad. She said " So I can't say anything negative at all? "

> I said no, mom. Nothing negative to the child. Ever. If you need to say

> something negative, talk about politics. " She seemed to appreciate this

> detailed direction and has stuck to it. It struck me then, and many other

> times, that she sounds like she's following directions from a therapist on

> how to figure out how to behave, because she just has no idea naturally.

>

> CHANGING DIRECTIONS:

> This also interested me:

>

> " BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting

> new symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

> anxiety... "

>

> My nada was always a tower of strength, but lately has become a

> hypochondriac, constantly running to doctors and every phone call starts

> with trying to get sympathy from me for her health. I am very mean and never

> give her much, she never gave me any. Anyway feeding it would only make it

> worse. She manages to get 'sick' whenever I need anything.

>

> I also constantly stop remembering that she is crazy, and treat her like I

> would a normal person, and then the crazy comes out. So maybe it's also that

> we have both learned how to deal with each other to prevent problems. For my

> part, I don't ever expect anything from her or tell her anything too

> personal or challenge her crazy comments. She holds it together because she

> knows I can go NC at anytime, and will.

>

> While she doesn't lash out anymore, it's still like talking to a space

> alien sometimes. Every time I see her I need a decompression session with my

> spouse or father or step-mom. So I don't think she's normal by any means. I

> just want to understand how it is that she was SO mean and aggressive when I

> was little, and now is not.

>

> Terri

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello again, I was away on a long trip and I m just catching up.

My nada is definitely getting worse with age and I have a theory and would like

to know if some people agree with me. My nada was very pretty, and always "

relied on the kindness " of men. This is the reason I think why I was neglected

emotionally and always felt I was in the way. Her relationship with me has

gotten worse ,because as I am aging myself, I am a living reminder of her own

aging and loss of beauty.Has anybody had a similar experience,do you think this

theory has any validity?

[Guest guest]

OH YES NOW MY NADA IS STARTING TO FEEL SORRY FOR HERSELF SAYING NO ONE WOULD

WANT HER AND SO ON.

SHE IS GETTING WORSE WITH AGE. I THINK BECAUSE MOST ALL OF HER FRIENDS HAVE

SHIED AWAY FROM HER ALONG WITH MEN BECAUSE SHE IS CRAZY. SHE HAS TREATED MOST OF

THEM VERY BADLY AND THEY GOT TIRED OF IT. WHEN THEY ARE OF NO USE TO HER SHE

TREATS THEM LIKE DIRT UNLESS THEY ARE SATISFYING A NEED OF HERS. ALL THE MORE

REASONS TO KEEP UP THE BOUNDARIES. IT IS NOT OUR FAULT THEY ARE LIKE THIS AND

FEELING SORRY FOR THEM JUST PUTS YOU IN HARMS WAY OF A BPD ATTACK.

Re: BPD improving with age?

Hello again, I was away on a long trip and I m just catching up.

My nada is definitely getting worse with age and I have a theory and would

like to know if some people agree with me. My nada was very pretty, and always "

relied on the kindness " of men. This is the reason I think why I was neglected

emotionally and always felt I was in the way. Her relationship with me has

gotten worse ,because as I am aging myself, I am a living reminder of her own

aging and loss of beauty.Has anybody had a similar experience,do you think this

theory has any validity?

[Guest guest]

I think your theory is a solid one. In addition, old age is a time of

reflection. An aging BP likely has several problems with this period. First of

all, they have trouble connecting with their past emotionally. The may remember

the past, but it is like a book they read, not something that feel a personal

connection with emotionally. Thus, this may create an even deeper feeling of

emptiness as they continue to age.

Also, as you already pointed out in your theory, an aging BP is going to become

less able in everything they do. They loose they beauty and sharpness and it is

harder for them to keep up with the ever changing world around them. For a BP,

this can be a time of quiet crisis.

>

> Hello again, I was away on a long trip and I m just catching up.

> My nada is definitely getting worse with age and I have a theory and would

like to know if some people agree with me. My nada was very pretty, and always "

relied on the kindness " of men. This is the reason I think why I was neglected

emotionally and always felt I was in the way. Her relationship with me has

gotten worse ,because as I am aging myself, I am a living reminder of her own

aging and loss of beauty.Has anybody had a similar experience,do you think this

theory has any validity?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terri -

Great question! I was actually thinking of creating a thread with this topic the

other day. My nada and fada have definitely gotten better with age, with my nada

doing much better than my fada, as he still has some NPD characteristics that my

nada does not (and did not) have. My nada used to be Queen/witch, now she

usually just has waif traits, though the sudden queen/witch outburst will

occasionally show themselves. But comparing them from my childhood/adolescence

to now, it is like they are different people.

However - my situation is similar to yours; though both have improved

dramatically, neither my nada or fada's behavior is generally healthy, and I

still have to keep my guard up and ears open for the slights so I can respond

and remind them of the wonderful concept of boundaries!

Fada actually handles this worse than nada. My theory for why they have improved

so much is that we are a small, disjointed family and I really think that, as

they are aging (they're divorced, btw), they are realizing they will one day

need assistance, and they want it from my sister or I. They're scared, I can

tell. So I think they are doing what they can to keep me and my sister around so

they can count on us one day. They also both have huge death phobias, and I

think that plays a part as well. But like I said, they aren't healthy parents

and I still have to mentally prepare myself for conversations with them, esp.

fada.

And just as a side, I do not regularly write on this message board, though I can

relate with so much of what is posted, I'm just not a big computer person, so I

don't check the messages as often as others do, I think.

-Tess

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds valid to me. I have a similar experience in terms of her getting worse

based on what I- her daughter- looked like. When I hit puberty she went nuts,

because that's when the sexual abuse started for her. I was a constant reminder.

Also she couldn't separate me from her, so she was terrified that I would be

sexually abused by my father too (no way).

I didn't realize it at the time, but it's so obvious now that I look back on it.

The whole idea of not being able to see where they end and you begin. If she's

attached to the idea of herself as young and desirable, she probably is

triggered by seeing her daughter past that age.

>

> Hello again, I was away on a long trip and I m just catching up.

> My nada is definitely getting worse with age and I have a theory and would

like to know if some people agree with me. My nada was very pretty, and always "

relied on the kindness " of men. This is the reason I think why I was neglected

emotionally and always felt I was in the way. Her relationship with me has

gotten worse ,because as I am aging myself, I am a living reminder of her own

aging and loss of beauty.Has anybody had a similar experience,do you think this

theory has any validity?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I would totally agree with the experience of a negative filter. And the

idea of the ability to read other people being very very off.

Random example: My nada and I were in a shop. There were two women there, the

owner and a friend, chatting. My nada jumped in and started chatting too. They

didn't really want to talk to her and sort of ignored her, rather obviously I

thought. My nada didn't notice at all, kept talking. To herself at this point. I

was completely embarrassed, but knew better than to tell her that the women

weren't interested in talking to her. She would never believe me, and would

claim that I was trying to hurt her feelings for no reason. So I kept my mouth

shut and avoided eye contact with the women in the shop.

It's funny too, when you think about it. That they always accuse others of being

mean to them, and never at all understand when they hurt someone else's

feelings.

> >

> > Hi all

> >

> > Thanks for the feedback. Again I can't say enough how I don't at all mean to

invalidate the experiences of people here. You all have my sympathies, I lived

through it too, just not as recently. I'm just looking for someone in my

situation.

> >

> >

> > Some possible answers:

> > THERAPY

> > My nada got 30 years of therapy. This might sound strange, but she was an

incest survivor, and for that reason she found therapy acceptable and focused on

that issue. However I think it was her NPD mother who did most of the damage -

scary as that is to say.

> >

> > My father did a lot of this therapy with her in 10 years of couples

counseling (they got divorced when he thought I was old enough for him to get

custody) and he has told me the history, because of course she won't. Dad said a

therapist suggested BPD, but I think she fell short of having enough of the

checklist of symptoms. Not that it mattered, I read Understanding the Borderline

Mother and underlined almost all of it. Finally my anger made sense.

> >

> > The point is though that she did have several therapists over the years,

maybe they taught her something to help her keep herself in check. She has asked

me many times to be very explicit about what I want from her, because she says

" She doesn't know " (this was after I told her that she can't call her 2 yr old

granddaughter's dress ugly. She actually needed me to explain to her why that

was bad. She said " So I can't say anything negative at all? " I said no, mom.

Nothing negative to the child. Ever. If you need to say something negative, talk

about politics. " She seemed to appreciate this detailed direction and has stuck

to it. It struck me then, and many other times, that she sounds like she's

following directions from a therapist on how to figure out how to behave,

because she just has no idea naturally.

> >

> > CHANGING DIRECTIONS:

> > This also interested me:

> > " BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting

new symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

> >

> > My nada was always a tower of strength, but lately has become a

hypochondriac, constantly running to doctors and every phone call starts with

trying to get sympathy from me for her health. I am very mean and never give her

much, she never gave me any. Anyway feeding it would only make it worse. She

manages to get 'sick' whenever I need anything.

> >

> > I also constantly stop remembering that she is crazy, and treat her like I

would a normal person, and then the crazy comes out. So maybe it's also that we

have both learned how to deal with each other to prevent problems. For my part,

I don't ever expect anything from her or tell her anything too personal or

challenge her crazy comments. She holds it together because she knows I can go

NC at anytime, and will.

> >

> > While she doesn't lash out anymore, it's still like talking to a space alien

sometimes. Every time I see her I need a decompression session with my spouse or

father or step-mom. So I don't think she's normal by any means. I just want to

understand how it is that she was SO mean and aggressive when I was little, and

now is not.

> >

> > Terri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is fascinating to me. For the longest time I thought I was just sooo naive

and trusting because I couldn't see the negative things in other people's faces

like my Nada could. She would always say some guy was leering at her (or me) in

the grocery store, the salesclerk in the jewelry section at Wal-Mart had a demon

of witchcraft possessing her and wanted to pass the demon on to me (or Nada or

whoever else was with us - Nada loves her demonic possession fears).

It's wonderful in a sad kind of way to see that it's actually been shown through

research that BPD's are biased toward perceiving negativity in others.

Subject: Re: BPD improving with age?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 7:55 AM

 

That's interesting (fascinating, to me) that your nada had/has noticeable

difficulty with understanding how to relate to other people in a kind and

thoughtful way, but will respond well to specific instructions such as " do not

make negative comments about the two year old; if you feel the need to say

something negative, talk about politics. "

There have been several studies now that seem to indicate that those with bpd

have difficulty recognizing and interpreting the facial expressions of others

accurately, and tend to interpret neutral expressions, tones, and words

negatively.

The researchers were trying to determine if inability to " read " others

accurately is related to emotional dysregulation. This fascinates me because I

have mentioned for years that I think my nada had/has a " negative filter "

because she would so often interpret simply neutral expressions or activities or

words from me as negative, rude, or insulting to her. For example, I'd be

reading a book and she'd see me just sitting there reading and she'd ask me

" What are you so angry about, are you pissed off at me? " and that might launch

her into a little rage fit at me.

So, Voila! Researchers have apparently noticed the same thing in other bpd

patients. Here is the link to one article about a research study on this. I

used to have the link to a very readable public article on the subject but I

lost all my library of links recently. But here is a brief on one of the

studies:

http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:QEbIAXYEkCEJ:scholar.google\

..com/ & hl=en & as_sdt=0,5

-Annie

<!

[Guest guest]

" selectively batsh*t " Bahahah! That's perfect! This is one of the things I hate

most about BPD - their ability to occasionally act " normal. " Because when they

start acting " normal " is when that little % & $^ & #$ seed of hope that I just can't

seem to totally root out springs back to life and I think, 'maybe, just maybe,

just this once, things will *stay* different this time.'

But they never do. I think I've finally learned this one.

Subject: Re: Re: BPD improving with age?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 9:45 AM

Hi Terri,

   Thanks for sharing your experiences !  My own are somewhat different.

    Although there have been periods of relative " normalcy, "   during which I

would become lulled into a false sense of security, and periods of

interaction with others during which she was consistently  charming,

engaging and conspicuously benevolent,  the PD symptoms and behaviors would,

eventually arise, and  her distorted  perceptions would throw everything

into a tailspin when we least expected it.

  One of the most disturbing traits my Nada exhibited was, as my son called

it, " selective batsh*t, " in which  she would seem fine around a select group

of people, such as at work, or book-club, or even other family members, but

*selectively *project her most toxic distortions, and destructive acting out

onto one or two people, or, again, a  small " *selec*t " group of individuals

who  will act to pacify,  deflect or conceal her outlandish behaviors.

  Another horrible aspect,  is the " follie a deaux, "   situation, in which

the instabilities and distorted thinking of  two psychologically disordered

individuals create a shared reality that further justifies and intensifies

their shared acting-out.,  ( " God help us)  Sometimes, when I thought my Nada

was " better,' she was actually just focusing on someone or something else.

   These are, for what they are worth, my own experiences.

    There are I understand, many, many levels and intensities of experience,

and disorder among PDs, and their families. If one speaks to different

members of the same family, with a PD member, you will hear different

experiences and perceptions regarding the same interactions, and events,

with the same individual.  plus, their own accounts of the same event may

change every time they recount it. This, is in part what makes the PDs so

exasperating and difficult to deal with.

                                                                I'm going to

pull my blanket over my head and rock for a little while. Sunspot

[Guest guest]

, I think it was the hardest thing I have ever done, letting go of my

expectations that ~someday~ ... It is peaceful to live in the here and now, not

worrying about what you need to do to make the future happen. I see everything

for what it is and let things play out as they should. I watch life like a

movie that I have never seen before and what it as it unfolds, instead of trying

so hard to write the characters parts and be the director. I don't want to be

the director; I never was any good at it anyway.

>

>

> Subject: Re: Re: BPD improving with age?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 9:45 AM

>

> Hi Terri,

>

>    Thanks for sharing your experiences !  My own are somewhat different.

>

>     Although there have been periods of relative " normalcy, "   during which I

> would become lulled into a false sense of security, and periods of

> interaction with others during which she was consistently  charming,

> engaging and conspicuously benevolent,  the PD symptoms and behaviors would,

> eventually arise, and  her distorted  perceptions would throw everything

> into a tailspin when we least expected it.

>

>   One of the most disturbing traits my Nada exhibited was, as my son called

> it, " selective batsh*t, " in which  she would seem fine around a select group

> of people, such as at work, or book-club, or even other family members, but

> *selectively *project her most toxic distortions, and destructive acting out

> onto one or two people, or, again, a  small " *selec*t " group of individuals

> who  will act to pacify,  deflect or conceal her outlandish behaviors.

>

>   Another horrible aspect,  is the " follie a deaux, "   situation, in which

> the instabilities and distorted thinking of  two psychologically disordered

> individuals create a shared reality that further justifies and intensifies

> their shared acting-out.,  ( " God help us)  Sometimes, when I thought my Nada

> was " better,' she was actually just focusing on someone or something else.

>

>    These are, for what they are worth, my own experiences.

>

>     There are I understand, many, many levels and intensities of experience,

> and disorder among PDs, and their families. If one speaks to different

> members of the same family, with a PD member, you will hear different

> experiences and perceptions regarding the same interactions, and events,

> with the same individual.  plus, their own accounts of the same event may

> change every time they recount it. This, is in part what makes the PDs so

> exasperating and difficult to deal with.

>

>                                                                 I'm going to

> pull my blanket over my head and rock for a little while. Sunspot

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada was waif/hermit from the 1950's-early 1970's. Now she is mostly

queen/witch at age 78.

I have watched her disorder come on strongly in cycles. The end cycle usually

involves some sort of medical crash that necessitates tranquilizers or just

scaring the crap out of her (heart attacks, etc.)

She got a lot better after menopause fully set in--I think the hormonal

fluctuations made her crazier. I also think as she aged she got better playing

the BPD game--hiding her fears, deflecting onto others, picking and choosing her

victims more carefully.

So yes, I can see where the out of control nada is no longer part and parcel to

my everyday life. But every time I see her, I experience at least minor forms of

gaslighting, while being regaled of her victimhood. Finished up with how great

she is compared to everyone else. She plows right over things that may bring up

embarrassement to her. She pushes away accountability.

Any way you look at it, her BPD is still active and strong. She is just better

at working around it than she was 40 years ago.

>

> Hi

>

> A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine was

extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time. Part

of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

>

> Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but they

are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk about

recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

>

> Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

>

> " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

>

> So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

>

>

> My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

>

> Terri

>

[Guest guest]

((((Annie)))))

Thanks for this. I am struggling to think about the possibility of it being

dementia. I hope that her psychiatrist will have taken this possibility into

account (she's on anti-psychotic meds) but guess I should get in touch with him

to check. Eek. Even thinking about this is making me feel a bit queasy.

Cheers Annie. I hope things are going okay your end.

Sara

> >

> > Another interesting thread.

> >

> > My nada has certainly changed with age - at one point, several years ago,

I'd sort of 'forgotten' that she was crazy and allowed her to visit me abroad

for 2.5 weeks. Big mistake. She reverted to the snappy, rude, aggressive, shouty

nada she'd been throughout my childhood. I think that her behaviours are often

only triggered after a few days (perhaps when my concentration goes and I forget

to 'mirror' her) and so I'd thought she was 'normal'/'better' whereas in fact,

for years, I'd only seen her in small doses where she'd been able to keep a grip

on herself.

> >

> > I thought this was interesting: (I think posted by pdf)

> >

> > " BPs that used to be very abusive may turn their abuse inward, sprouting new

symptoms like chronic fatigue, hypochondriac, social phobia, generalized

anxiety... "

> >

> > I think that my nada also seems more 'normal' now because she has learned

that she can no longer snap at me, say blatantly horrible things, scream at me

etc. without triggering a meltdown in me (yelling, crying, threatening to leave

the situation.) Unbeknownst to me I was sort of putting boundaries in place with

all my meltdowns over the course of my early adult years and so her behaviour

seems less unreasonable now. But at the same time she's now in the midst of a

psychotic episode, linked to some sort of agrophobia and hypochondria. In the

absence of a totally helpless child to abuse or a completely enabling spouse,

perhaps that's how it develops.

> >

> > It's interesting I think.

> >

> > Cheerio

> >

> > Sara

>

[Guest guest]

This is a really fascinating post. I find it so interesting how much is similar

and different with nadas of this nature. Thank you all for sharing your stories

of your aging Nadas.

According to my dad, my nada started off seeming really normal, with a dazzling

public persona and would hide during what he now knows were her episodes of

craziness.

After they got married, she would have one or two days a month where she would

just go nuts, usually on the weekends.

By the time I was old enough to remember, they would be usually a couple days

every other week. Then when Nada and Dad were separated they went to every

weekend (for some reason, Nada hates weekends and holidays) until Nada brought

us to Dad's new job in the south.

When we moved (I was about 7) she became almost a full time witch. She was

raging at least twice a day. Then when Dad went to her Doctor and asked for her

to get some, she went on anti-anxieties and anti-depressants and started calming

down. She was OK with this because she claimed she was hormonal and it was

post-partum depression.

Then when we moved again, she did OK until she went off her anti-depressants

because her doctor told her she was just a middle-aged woman and needed to suck

it up.

That's when she started really going crazy. My dad describes it as that she used

to jump off the tracks occasionally and then find her way back on with a lot of

support from him. Eventually though, she jumped them and just kept going.

I know a lot of people bring up the Waif/Hermit/Queen/Witch analogy, but I have

a hard time with this one. She wasn't any one of them. She would oscillate

between any number of them in an hour. And the scary thing is, after reading

Understanding the Borderline Mother, I can say that I definitely had a Medean

mother, and when my father started asserting his boundaries and not mirroring

her or letting her use him as a whipping boy was when we really started to get

it. My junior and senior years of high school were an absolute misery and I

didn't even have it as bad as my brothers.

So to sum up (sorry, my posts are always too long! I guess I have a lot to say),

my nada has been getting exponentially worse as she ages, but now, she's almost

50 and although I'm NC, I hear she's been getting even worse now that we're not

there to give her what she needs. I'm pretty much giving up hope of having a

relationship with her ever.

-Cle

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine

was extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time.

Part of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

> >

> > Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but

they are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk

about recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

> >

> > Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> > http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

> >

> > " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and usually

begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is usually

chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many years. About

one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide. However, in

the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to " burn out " in

middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the ages of

thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown. However,

other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial personality and

substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

> >

> > So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

> >

> >

> > My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still dealing

with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better aren't

on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful to me

to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

> >

> > Terri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is so interesting that the rages and other BPD traits of our nadas and

fadas come in and out through our lives (though for some it has always stayed at

the same level).

I had a similar experience to yours: my nada and fada separated and got back

together several times before eventually divorcing, but when they were together

it was hell. It was like invasion of the body snatchers; they just turned into

monsters immediately upon getting back together. My nada also switched from

queen to witch to waif; we never knew what was coming. Same with fada. It sounds

like your dad was able to be more of a stabilizing force than mine was, but of

course that came at the expense of his own peace of mind and mental health.

I'm sorry to hear your nada has gotten worse with age. I'm glad you are NC with

her now, though I know that comes with its own pain and challenges. Thanks for

sharing your story.

-Tess

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > A lot of the posts I read here detail extreme behavior from the nada. Mine

was extreme to me when I was a child, but hasn't been that way in a long time.

Part of the problem with growing up with this is that you assume it's your fault

(especially when she tells you everything is your fault) and that you are the

crazy one.

> > >

> > > Her behavior is relatively normal-ish now. Her issues still show up, but

they are much milder. Because of this I question even more, since I can't talk

about recent crazy-behavior. And BPD doesn't go away, right?

> > >

> > > Then I found this, on the website of a Phd.

> > > http://www.jwoodphd.com/borderline_personality_disorder.htm

> > >

> > > " Borderline personality disorder is an illness of young people, and

usually begins in adolescence or youth. About 80% of patients are women. BPD is

usually chronic, and severe problems often continue to be present for many

years. About one out of ten patients eventually succeed in committing suicide.

However, in the 90% who do not kill themselves, borderline pathology tends to

" burn out " in middle age, and most patients function significantly better by the

ages of thirty-five to forty. The mechanism for this improvement is unknown.

However, other disorders associated with impulsivity, such as antisocial

personality and substance abuse, also tend to burn out around the same age. "

> > >

> > > So, maybe that explains why she's better now, and doesn't invalidate my

memories of the past.

> > >

> > >

> > > My nada is in her 60's. My sympathies to those of you who are still

dealing with it with an elderly parent. Probably the KO's whose nadas are better

aren't on this list as much, it's mostly lifers here. But anyway it was helpful

to me to read this, so I thought I'd post it.

> > >

> > > Terri

> > >

> >

>