re: Estradiol Usage questions/ Dee's reply. ;)

[Guest guest]

HI . So happy hon to hear you've received your compounded estradiol.. Hooray for you.

If you can use it nightly before bedtime, (I'm glad it's got the Emu as a base too) and as long as it doesn't bother you that's what "I" would do hon..

And as you know just that small peasize dab topically generally is enough and one of the keys is massaging it gently in too.. (so don't forget that) You can massage it all over the vulvar area, clitoral hood, and each side of the smaller lips and a bit of a 'rim' around the vestibule (ok if a bit goes inside too) and esp. that 6 o'clock V area that's always so tender.. *ouch*.

It might take a while for the tissue to renew itself hon... so don't expect a really quick result and it's not used for soothing if in a flare up either.. but for rebuilding that V tissue and getting it healthy again and esp. giving it back it's tone and 'stretchability' ... if it irritates you and I'm hopeful it won't, just back off for a day or two then go back to it.

Here are a few clips from Dr. Willems and what he says... when he used it pre-surgery to prepare the vulva for surgery with women with vestibulitis, as it helps heal the tissue much faster afterwards, and it helped so much that many of the women ended up cancelling the surgery.

He suggested twice a day tho and a much larger amt. "toothpaste' size... but I personally wouldn't use that much as it can go systemic and I've seen a few have a bit of a breakthru bleed or the very tender breasts. Not that that would scare 'me'... but it would mean it is going systemic and I'd slow down usage.

Dr. Willems: ''The healing process is slow. It often takes at least six weeks for improvement to begin. However, definite progress should be seen within the first six months.''

'Note'', This is so true about the 'time' it takes and I've seen many give up too soon, so please, please have patience, it took 'me' a full six months! (But I was in extreme condition too and like that for 10 yrs ! ) Some had great results in a month or two, but it's nothing that can be rushed, and using more or thinking by enduring any irritation and still using it that'll help? (if that happens) it won't. Just back off for a little bit. Again with yours compounded hon you should be ok.. but remember 'try' to be patient. He continues...

''As the condition begins to resolve, increased itching may occur. I caution my patients that this is not a yeast infection and they should 'not' use anti-yeast medication or steroid creams, but just persevere until symptoms subside. Itching is a sign of healing.''

'' In spite of progress, flare-ups or setbacks will continue for a while, especially when a woman is premenstrual or under stress. Gradually, soon the good days outnumber bad days, and the symptoms become less severe.

Estrogen cream must be used on an ongoing basis. Whenever my patients discontinue it entirely, they have relapses. Many women, however, once they are feeling much better are able to decrease the dose to one application a day, then every other day, and so on, until they find their individual maintenance levels.

''Note'', Keep that in mind and don't be discouraged, the flare ups 'will' become less and less, and further and further apart, until hopefully there are none and was exactly what happened in my case. *smile* So don't think it's not working or be discouraged too soon, just back off if in a flare up. Once I was well I was able to go down to once or twice a week.. and some weeks I forget. but I can't go for too long or it'll remind me. I occasionally will do some inserted too if I start to feel too dry inside... but not often.

(If anyone wants to read the full article it's at:

http://www.vulvarpainfoundation.org/topical_estrogen_treatment.htm

One last comment about Dr. Willems, while not in that article, he has stated that he uses 'Estrace' as estradiol estrogen and he emphasizes that the patients he treats do 'not' have clinical estrogen deficiencies nor are they menopausal and that is why it can be so beneficial for all ages too.

Also they use it in children with labial adhesions without risk since it can even soften up old scar tissue & release those adhesions too (and why it works well for labial adhesions for those with LS, *lichen sclerosis)..

seeing you mention that you feel so hot & dry inside the vagina too, you 'might' consider using it inside a once or twice a week... maybe an inch worth (it's marked on the applicator).

By the way the estradiol cream and the Estrace (name brand) always comes with the applicator hon because doctors and the drug companies all assume that's the only way to use it, and sadly most physicians have no idea how beneficial it can be use topically for restoration of that V tissue without it being systemic (or rarely) AND for all ages.

Most just toss the applicator away... BUT...(and I've no idea of your age hon)... menopausal women can use inside the vagina, as that's who it's usually prescribed for but believe me it'll work topically.

Typical prescription used 'that way' *intravaginally* is once a night for two weeks...(maybe 2 inches or so) from then on once or twice a week for maintenance.... so if you're say 45 + you 'might' want to try it hon... and that would certainly give things a 'kick start' too (w. your doctors permission of course!!!! ) It's great for the self lubrication too that it brings using it that way.

But it would likely be systemic used that way, (which might be beneficial for you hon or not).. depends on age again. Though I'll tell you and this is just 'me'..and I'm 'not' suggesting you do hon....but if 'I' were that tender inside even if I was younger, I'd try it inserted maybe once a week anyway... and I have seen physicians suggest the E-String (an estradiol appliance that's inserted and left in for 3 months) to be used by those younger and even the Vagifem (another estradiol product, a tablet, that's inserted for younger women w. V pain.)

But the dosage amts. of estradiol in those products is 'very' low, and usually a progestin isn't even needed, so that's why I wouldn't be leery of the E cream inside either now & then. But again hon that's me.

Well I sure rambled and I just hope and pray it gives you the success it has me and so many others to restore the health of that V skin and life to normal once again..... It takes time, but the time will go by anyway. *smile* And be sure to let us know how it goes hon.

Big hugs and good luck.

Dee

PS... The ice cube might not be a bad idea, *grin* ... not inside but the surface of the vulva in a cloth to keep any swelling down hon...

Oh one more thought, they know from studies that declining Estradiol causes heightened sensitivity of nerve endings to pain, even Vulvodynia! <(Dr.Vliet says) and then add the stress of chronic pain (of any type) to this soup, and the pain itself further causes the Estrogen to decline, giving us a viscious cycle. (Vliet again)

[Guest guest]

Your awesome thanks for all your information and advice, it is greatly appreciated Dee...so sweet of you I must say. By the way I am 24 years old and this onset of major contact pain occured last year in April. Even my first attempt at intercourse was extremely unbearable, although I thought that was normal, plus he was on the larger size. Ever since then I had discomfort on and off during intercourse, I felt like the inside of my vagina was on fire at times. I didn't pay it to much mind and thought it could've been caused my a vaginal infection, so I used monistat and it'd go away until the next episode. Last year in March when my b/f came back from Japan (military) is when I began to have the excruiating pain and due to the fact I took 60 pills worth of antibiotics (in 3 months) to treat sterpt throat twice. I wasn't sexual active while he was away, therefore I wasn't in pain or aware there was something going on until we had intercourse for a few weeks. My opinion is maybe the antibiotics pushed me over the edge. Not to mention after taking the antibiotics, I had six vaginal infections by the end of the year, ranging from yeast (candida), BV and Group B Sterptococcous. My NP and OBGYN treated me with five different kinds of vaginal suppositories along with diflucan because they didn't know what to do.

I agree with you Dee, I think I should insert the Rx inside my vagina once a week. I feel like my insides are raw and inflammed and that the estradiol would be benefical to the heal the tissues. I've never heard of an E-string and I doubt my lousy doctors would do it for me. Should I ask my OBGYN about trying Vagifem and if so how does one explain to their doctor why they need it?

~~

re: Estradiol Usage questions/ Dee's reply.

HI .

So happy hon to hear you've received your compounded estradiol.. Hooray for you.

If you can use it nightly before bedtime, (I'm glad it's got the Emu as a base too) and as long as it doesn't bother you that's what "I" would do hon..

And as you know just that small peasize dab topically generally is enough and one of the keys is massaging it gently in too.. (so don't forget that) You can massage it all over the vulvar area, clitoral hood, and each side of the smaller lips and a bit of a 'rim' around the vestibule (ok if a bit goes inside too) and esp. that 6 o'clock V area that's always so tender.. *ouch*.

It might take a while for the tissue to renew itself hon... so don't expect a really quick result and it's not used for soothing if in a flare up either.. but for rebuilding that V tissue and getting it healthy again and esp. giving it back it's tone and 'stretchability' ... if it irritates you and I'm hopeful it won't, just back off for a day or two then go back to it.

Here are a few clips from Dr. Willems and what he says... when he used it pre-surgery to prepare the vulva for surgery with women with vestibulitis, as it helps heal the tissue much faster afterwards, and it helped so much that many of the women ended up cancelling the surgery.

He suggested twice a day tho and a much larger amt. "toothpaste' size... but I personally wouldn't use that much as it can go systemic and I've seen a few have a bit of a breakthru bleed or the very tender breasts. Not that that would scare 'me'... but it would mean it is going systemic and I'd slow down usage.

Dr. Willems: ''The healing process is slow. It often takes at least six weeks for improvement to begin. However, definite progress should be seen within the first six months.''

'Note'', This is so true about the 'time' it takes and I've seen many give up too soon, so please, please have patience, it took 'me' a full six months! (But I was in extreme condition too and like that for 10 yrs ! ) Some had great results in a month or two, but it's nothing that can be rushed, and using more or thinking by enduring any irritation and still using it that'll help? (if that happens) it won't. Just back off for a little bit. Again with yours compounded hon you should be ok.. but remember 'try' to be patient. He continues...

''As the condition begins to resolve, increased itching may occur. I caution my patients that this is not a yeast infection and they should 'not' use anti-yeast medication or steroid creams, but just persevere until symptoms subside. Itching is a sign of healing.''

'' In spite of progress, flare-ups or setbacks will continue for a while, especially when a woman is premenstrual or under stress. Gradually, soon the good days outnumber bad days, and the symptoms become less severe.

Estrogen cream must be used on an ongoing basis. Whenever my patients discontinue it entirely, they have relapses. Many women, however, once they are feeling much better are able to decrease the dose to one application a day, then every other day, and so on, until they find their individual maintenance levels.

''Note'', Keep that in mind and don't be discouraged, the flare ups 'will' become less and less, and further and further apart, until hopefully there are none and was exactly what happened in my case. *smile* So don't think it's not working or be discouraged too soon, just back off if in a flare up. Once I was well I was able to go down to once or twice a week.. and some weeks I forget. but I can't go for too long or it'll remind me. I occasionally will do some inserted too if I start to feel too dry inside... but not often.

(If anyone wants to read the full article it's at:

http://www.vulvarpainfoundation.org/topical_estrogen_treatment.htm

One last comment about Dr. Willems, while not in that article, he has stated that he uses 'Estrace' as estradiol estrogen and he emphasizes that the patients he treats do 'not' have clinical estrogen deficiencies nor are they menopausal and that is why it can be so beneficial for all ages too.

Also they use it in children with labial adhesions without risk since it can even soften up old scar tissue & release those adhesions too (and why it works well for labial adhesions for those with LS, *lichen sclerosis)..

seeing you mention that you feel so hot & dry inside the vagina too, you 'might' consider using it inside a once or twice a week... maybe an inch worth (it's marked on the applicator).

By the way the estradiol cream and the Estrace (name brand) always comes with the applicator hon because doctors and the drug companies all assume that's the only way to use it, and sadly most physicians have no idea how beneficial it can be use topically for restoration of that V tissue without it being systemic (or rarely) AND for all ages.

Most just toss the applicator away... BUT...(and I've no idea of your age hon)... menopausal women can use inside the vagina, as that's who it's usually prescribed for but believe me it'll work topically.

Typical prescription used 'that way' *intravaginally* is once a night for two weeks...(maybe 2 inches or so) from then on once or twice a week for maintenance.... so if you're say 45 + you 'might' want to try it hon... and that would certainly give things a 'kick start' too (w. your doctors permission of course!!!! ) It's great for the self lubrication too that it brings using it that way.

But it would likely be systemic used that way, (which might be beneficial for you hon or not).. depends on age again. Though I'll tell you and this is just 'me'..and I'm 'not' suggesting you do hon....but if 'I' were that tender inside even if I was younger, I'd try it inserted maybe once a week anyway... and I have seen physicians suggest the E-String (an estradiol appliance that's inserted and left in for 3 months) to be used by those younger and even the Vagifem (another estradiol product, a tablet, that's inserted for younger women w. V pain.)

But the dosage amts. of estradiol in those products is 'very' low, and usually a progestin isn't even needed, so that's why I wouldn't be leery of the E cream inside either now & then. But again hon that's me.

Well I sure rambled and I just hope and pray it gives you the success it has me and so many others to restore the health of that V skin and life to normal once again..... It takes time, but the time will go by anyway. *smile* And be sure to let us know how it goes hon.

Big hugs and good luck.

Dee

PS... The ice cube might not be a bad idea, *grin* ... not inside but the surface of the vulva in a cloth to keep any swelling down hon...

Oh one more thought, they know from studies that declining Estradiol causes heightened sensitivity of nerve endings to pain, even Vulvodynia! <(Dr.Vliet says) and then add the stress of chronic pain (of any type) to this soup, and the pain itself further causes the Estrogen to decline, giving us a viscious cycle. (Vliet again)

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[Guest guest]

caliprincess2369@... wrote: >>>>>Should I ask my OBGYN about trying Vagifem and if so how does one explain to their doctor why they need it? , vagifem is a much smaller dose of the bio-identical estrogen. I began using it along with the Estrace

topically 3 yrs. ago. It's a lot less messy than the Estrace internally. Due to hormone problems, I've since had to move on to an Estrogen patch and no longer use anything internally. I have IC, along with vulvodynia, so I told my uro/gyn I wanted to try vagifem because I knew it would have good uro/gyn effects -- especially on my poor bladder. Do you know what your blood level of Estrogen is? If you use the Estrace vaginally it might very well push your E. levels up (good if you need that, maybe not if you don't). This is just a suggestion, but I think I would take it slowly and just start with the Estradiol topically and then go very slowly if you need anything internally. Vagifem could be a really good option if you need something internally, though. As for getting it from your doc, yes, it can be a

pain, just study about hormones and go in there 'knowing' what you are talking about... *grin* -- that has worked for me over and over. ~Chelle