Forgiveness

[Guest guest]

What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean basically

saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to anyway and abused

the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal with the fallout of

that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't INTEND TO because of your

mental illness and we will figure life out and be successful despite you... so

it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a load of shit to me.

Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this? Sort

of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did it, they

are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it do to

forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to others? Am I

just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness and

what good does it do?

[Guest guest]

Well, I guess forgiving means that you don't hold it over their head anymore,

right? But it doesn't mean that you now trust them. You can forgive your parents

and still be NC. I think forgiveness is more about you letting it go and moving

on then giving them free reign to continue hurting you.

I actually just looked it up and the definition of forgiveness is to stop

feeling angry or resentful towards someone for an error or mistake. So based on

that, I have two responses.

1. You will forgive your parent when you damn well are ready to. That's no one

else's business and you can stay angry as long as you need to.

2. When you do stop feeling angry and " forgive " , that doesn't mean you will

continue to have a relationship with that person. Aren't we allowed to say " I am

not angry anymore, I do forgive you. But I don't trust you and do not want a

relationship with you any longer. " ? Don't we get to say that? And if someone has

a problem with it, tell em to F off.

>

> What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

>

> I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean basically

saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to anyway and abused

the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal with the fallout of

that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't INTEND TO because of your

mental illness and we will figure life out and be successful despite you... so

it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a load of shit to me.

>

> Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did it,

they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it do to

forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to others? Am I

just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

>

> Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness and

what good does it do?

>

[Guest guest]

Aaaah. That makes sense. Thanks, . Re-reading my post made me realize that

obviously, I'm still angry and I'm still not ready to forgive. I may have

moments of grace, but I'm not there yet.

I guess I also thought that forgiving meant I'd have to get back into contact,

which (you're right) doesn't have to happen. Being NC is important.

Again, thanks.

K

> >

> > What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

> >

> > I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean basically

saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to anyway and abused

the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal with the fallout of

that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't INTEND TO because of your

mental illness and we will figure life out and be successful despite you... so

it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a load of shit to me.

> >

> > Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did it,

they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it do to

forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to others? Am I

just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

> >

> > Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness

and what good does it do?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I remember someone on here relaying a piece of valuable advice they'd gotten

from a rabbi. (Please feel free to correct me, group!)

The rabbi had said that to forgive, the other person must wish to be

forgiven. If they don't want to be forgiven or don't see that anything's

wrong, you do not have to forgive them. It's a two-way street.

And yes, I really hate it when people say, " Go easy on your parents this

time. " or " Forgive your dad, he was only doing his best. "

YEAH RIGHT he was doing his best. Doing his best made us all walk on

eggshells becaue we knew he would swiftly become Mr Hyde again before long.

The people who say that you need to forgive your BPD parent simply cannot

and don't want to understand. We forgive people only when we're good and

ready to, not because someone told us to. And I think we ought to forgive

only if they ask forgiveness.

> **

>

>

> What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

> parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

>

> I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean

> basically saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to

> anyway and abused the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal

> with the fallout of that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't

> INTEND TO because of your mental illness and we will figure life out and be

> successful despite you... so it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a

> load of shit to me.

>

> Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

> Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did

> it, they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it

> do to forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to

> others? Am I just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

>

> Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness

> and what good does it do?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent point. Does forgiveness matter if the other person doesn't want it?

I think forgiveness is a charged word. Nada doesn't want my forgiveness but it

is important for me to move beyond my anger. So I don't know if that's

forgiveness or not. I don't know that I will ever stop being angry, but I know

that the anger will become less palpable. You can be angry about something

without letting it take over your life. Is it possible to say something like:

" I will always be angry about what happened to me. It was unfair and undeserved.

But in the interest in getting my life back, I am moving beyond that anger. It

will always be there, but I will not let it be the foremost emotion I feel. "

Make any sense?

>

[Guest guest]

I like all these thoughts, esp the person wanting it.

I do not wish to forgive my nada. But I am at the point where I feel that NC

was a very kind way of letting her know she was behaving unacceptably. I

have a little movie I play in my mind where I gently push her out of my

front door, close it, lock it and then go about my biz. I don't slam it. I

don't chase her down the street screaming. I don't set fire to her car. All

things I would like to do. So in that way, NC is a display of me forgiving

her and also of me forgiving myself.

> **

>

>

> Excellent point. Does forgiveness matter if the other person doesn't want

> it?

>

> I think forgiveness is a charged word. Nada doesn't want my forgiveness but

> it is important for me to move beyond my anger. So I don't know if that's

> forgiveness or not. I don't know that I will ever stop being angry, but I

> know that the anger will become less palpable. You can be angry about

> something without letting it take over your life. Is it possible to say

> something like:

>

> " I w. iill always be angry about what happened to me. It was unfair and

> undeserved. But in the interest in getting my life back, I am moving beyond

> that anger. It will always be there, but I will not let it be the foremost

> emotion I feel. "

>

> Make any sense?

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We should set up some kind of " wiki " for topics like this - we come back to them

again and again, and it would be nice to be able to find those old,

wisdom-filled posts. I am going to try to remember what was said in two of them

-

First - somebody here (maybe it was Doug?) said that forgiveness means " I CHOOSE

not to seek revenge on you for what you did to me. " It doesn't mean the

perpetrator didn't do wrong. It doesn't mean you let the perp keep doing the

wrong to you. It just means you CHOOSE to disengage, walk away, and not further

embroil yourself in trying to get even, or demand an apology. This definition

of forgiveness goes well with a decision to go NC, I think. " You have hurt me

for the last time. I'm done. 'Bye. " Being able to make that choice is very

powerful.

Second - the Old Yeller analogy (one of my favorites). You may have had many

happy memories with Old Yeller when he was a pup. He may have been the best dog

ever, and you can't imagine life without him. But when you find out he has

rabies, and he will certainly infect you, and he is absolutely miserable, the

very last thing you'd do is stick your hand into his cage and let him bite you.

It's not his fault he has rabies. It's tragic, and you will miss him. But he's

deathly toxic to you, and you must do what is necessary to protect yourself. So

Old Yeller is forgiven, but you don't stick your hand through the bars to pet

him. (Actually, you have to go out and shoot him, but I think that takes the

analogy way too far...)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but the comment " Actually, you have to go out and shoot him, but I

think that takes the analogy way too far... " has me laughing out loud.

AnnieL

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Me personally, I tend to fall into the " forgiveness is a transaction " line of

thinking, and as a two-person transaction it requires the one who committed a

hurtful act to ask for forgiveness, be genuinely sorry, and promise to not do

that hurtful thing or say that hurtful thing again; then the victim can grant

forgiveness if they want to. Or not. And granting forgiveness does not

necessarily mean renewing a relationship; that depends on the situation, the

individuals involved, etc.

I define the other type of forgiveness (when its just you, the victim, deciding

that you're not angry any more) as simply " detaching " or letting go, and walking

away from the hurtful person or situation.

But each of us is probably going to have their own definition of what

forgiveness consists of, and whether you feel its something you need to engage

in, in order to feel better or not.

Its all about your needs, now.

-Annie

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

> > parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

> >

> > I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean

> > basically saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to

> > anyway and abused the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal

> > with the fallout of that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't

> > INTEND TO because of your mental illness and we will figure life out and be

> > successful despite you... so it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a

> > load of shit to me.

> >

> > Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

> > Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did

> > it, they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it

> > do to forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to

> > others? Am I just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

> >

> > Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness

> > and what good does it do?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

couldn't agree more, amanda. Â thanks for sharing.ann

Subject: Re: Forgiveness

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, September 14, 2011, 2:56 PM

Â

Well, I guess forgiving means that you don't hold it over their head

anymore, right? But it doesn't mean that you now trust them. You can forgive

your parents and still be NC. I think forgiveness is more about you letting it

go and moving on then giving them free reign to continue hurting you.

I actually just looked it up and the definition of forgiveness is to stop

feeling angry or resentful towards someone for an error or mistake. So based on

that, I have two responses.

1. You will forgive your parent when you damn well are ready to. That's no one

else's business and you can stay angry as long as you need to.

2. When you do stop feeling angry and " forgive " , that doesn't mean you will

continue to have a relationship with that person. Aren't we allowed to say " I am

not angry anymore, I do forgive you. But I don't trust you and do not want a

relationship with you any longer. " ? Don't we get to say that? And if someone has

a problem with it, tell em to F off.

>

> What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

>

> I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean basically

saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to anyway and abused

the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal with the fallout of

that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't INTEND TO because of your

mental illness and we will figure life out and be successful despite you... so

it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a load of shit to me.

>

> Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did it,

they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it do to

forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to others? Am I

just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

>

> Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness and

what good does it do?

>

[Guest guest]

I have good and bad days. I think I'm still going going through

a grieving process. I feel almost like a part of me died.

Steph

Re: Forgiveness

Aaaah. That makes sense. Thanks, . Re-reading my post

made me realize that obviously, I'm still angry and I'm still not

ready to forgive. I may have moments of grace, but I'm not there

yet.

I guess I also thought that forgiving meant I'd have to get back

into contact, which (you're right) doesn't have to happen. Being

NC is important.

Again, thanks.

K

What do you do when people ask you when you are going to

" forgive " your BPD parent? Do you feel that you can or will

forgive?

I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would

mean basically saying, " You should never have had children, then

decided to anyway and abused the ones you had, and now your

children have had to deal with the fallout of that for their

whole lives... but you know, you didn't INTEND TO because of

your mental illness and we will figure life out and be successful

despite you... so it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a

load of shit to me.

Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not

applicable to this? Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a

rapist. They chose it, they did it, they are guilty, and there

are terrible consequences. What good does it do to forgive,

really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to others?

Am I just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define

forgiveness and what good does it do?

------------------------------------

**This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book

The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder:

New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, available at

www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... DO

NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

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Groups Links

[Guest guest]

I agree with this. Forgiven but not Forgotten. I think the common connotation

of forgiving is more like to condone ( Accept and allow (behavior that is

considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue. ) or to " forget about the

past " / " move on. " I would like to get to the point where I don't have to

experience the pain of anger when thinking about my mom. I guess that would be

forgiveness in the literal sense. But I need to remember all that happened so I

can learn to protect myself from it.

>

> 2. When you do stop feeling angry and " forgive " , that doesn't mean you will

continue to have a relationship with that person. Aren't we allowed to say " I am

not angry anymore, I do forgive you. But I don't trust you and do not want a

relationship with you any longer. " ? Don't we get to say that? And if someone has

a problem with it, tell em to F off.

>

>

>

> --- In WTOAdultChildren1

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this post, Holly. (((HUGS)))

That is some damn good advice.

K

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > What do you do when people ask you when you are going to " forgive " your BPD

> > parent? Do you feel that you can or will forgive?

> >

> > I'm not sure I can or will. To me, forgiveness for this would mean

> > basically saying, " You should never have had children, then decided to

> > anyway and abused the ones you had, and now your children have had to deal

> > with the fallout of that for their whole lives... but you know, you didn't

> > INTEND TO because of your mental illness and we will figure life out and be

> > successful despite you... so it's okay. You're forgiven. " <-- Seems like a

> > load of shit to me.

> >

> > Does anyone else feel this way? That forgiveness is not applicable to this?

> > Sort of feel like it's akin to " forgiving " a rapist. They chose it, they did

> > it, they are guilty, and there are terrible consequences. What good does it

> > do to forgive, really? Doesn't it just enable the same shit to happen to

> > others? Am I just super-angry ranting or does that make any sense?

> >

> > Have you forgiven your nada/fada? If so, how would you define forgiveness

> > and what good does it do?

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you. Being NC is my way of accepting that how I was treated was

unacceptable. I don't deserve to be a KO. Being a KO doesn't rule my life,

however. It's just part of it.

Hmmm.

K

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Great analogy!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I understand. For me, I had to go NC for a while, then LC. It was

essential for me to come out of being pitiful, and helped me gain confidence to

become powerful. Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

later.........It takes time. Be kind to yourself. Protect your heart because

you're

special.

Laurie

In a message dated 9/15/2011 11:28:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

terri.axtell@... writes:

Honestly, I don't even have the slightest clue how to even begin to

forgive.

I guess that means I am not ready. :/

________________________________

From: " _Kotchteddy@..._ (mailto:Kotchteddy@...) "

<_Kotchteddy@..._ (mailto:Kotchteddy@...) >

To: _WTOAdultChildren1 _

(mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 )

Sent: Thu, September 15, 2011 9:12:41 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Forgiveness

I think if we forgive them, it allows healing to begin in us; they get

less

" space " in our head (thoughts). Doesn't mean we have to take their calls,

associate with them, because obviously, we don't have any reason to trust

them.

Laurie

In a message dated 9/14/2011 4:16:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

_danceralamode@..._ (mailto:danceralamode@...) writes:

Excellent point. Does forgiveness matter if the other person doesn't want

it?

I think forgiveness is a charged word. Nada doesn't want my forgiveness

but it is important for me to move beyond my anger. So I don't know if

that's

forgiveness or not. I don't know that I will ever stop being angry, but I

know that the anger will become less palpable. You can be angry about

something without letting it take over your life. Is it possible to say

something like:

" I will always be angry about what happened to me. It was unfair and

undeserved. But in the interest in getting my life back, I am moving

beyond

that

anger. It will always be there, but I will not let it be the foremost

emotion I feel. "

Make any sense?

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

I think that 'forgiveness' has been the most common subject heading on this

board for the past 10 years. It's not that forgiveness has no spiritual

value...it's just that when we truly recognize our circumstances, it is so often

not the issue. When a flaming buzz saw is rushing towards your head, the first

thing to do is get out of the way.

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

YES!!!!

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

good point. well said. Been an object of the buzz saw. Never said this

was an easy process.....took me years, years. But, it is a process.

Laurie

In a message dated 9/16/2011 10:58:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

charlottehoneychurch@... writes:

I think that 'forgiveness' has been the most common subject heading on this

board for the past 10 years. It's not that forgiveness has no spiritual

value...it's just that when we truly recognize our circumstances, it is so

often not the issue. When a flaming buzz saw is rushing towards your head,

the first thing to do is get out of the way.

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Guest guest]

I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

Steph

Re: Re: Forgiveness

I think if we forgive them, it allows healing to begin in us;

they get

less

" space " in our head (thoughts). Doesn't mean we have to take

their calls,

associate with them, because obviously, we don't have any reason

to trust

them.

Laurie

In a message dated 9/14/2011 4:16:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time,

_danceralamode@..._ (mailto:danceralamode@...)

writes:

Excellent point. Does forgiveness matter if the other person

doesn't want

it?

I think forgiveness is a charged word. Nada doesn't want my

forgiveness

but it is important for me to move beyond my anger. So I don't

know if

that's

forgiveness or not. I don't know that I will ever stop being

angry, but I

know that the anger will become less palpable. You can be angry

about

something without letting it take over your life. Is it

possible to say

something like:

" I will always be angry about what happened to me. It was

unfair and

undeserved. But in the interest in getting my life back, I am

moving

beyond

that

anger. It will always be there, but I will not let it be the

foremost

emotion I feel. "

Make any sense?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Kotchteddy writes, " Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

later.........It takes time. "

musiclady writes:

I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

Steph

What is forgiveness?

transitive verb

1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult> b :

to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>

2 a: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive one's

enemies>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive

I think that Kotchteddy is right; first you have to heal. Maybe forgiveness

comes automatically after that. Check out 1b above " forgive a debt. " Our

parents owe us a debt that they cannot pay. Forgiveness may be an insight. Up

until the point of this insight, we expect to get paid what is due us. After

the insight, we release ourselves from the burden of this debt.

I also think that this process happens in levels. Maybe the release happens in

installments. Maybe some of us never fully " pardon. " I haven't yet.

[Guest guest]

Forgiving is for You, not necessarily for the offender. Keeping the

anger just builds more resentment, and they continue to occupy space in our

head. For me going NC for a while reduced the space they were occupying in my

head everyday, enabling me gradually to get on with MY life........not

worrying about what they wanted, what they felt, what they needed......every

freakin day. This, for me, was a much needed healing process. Again,

the forgiveness comes later. I didn't think I'd ever be able to forgive

them, and it took me years to get to that point

Laurie

In a message dated 9/19/2011 10:13:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

floykoe@... writes:

Kotchteddy writes, " Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

later.........It takes time. "

musiclady writes:

I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

Steph

What is forgiveness?

transitive verb

1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an

insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>

2 a: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive

one's enemies>

_http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive_

(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive)

I think that Kotchteddy is right; first you have to heal. Maybe

forgiveness comes automatically after that. Check out 1b above " forgive a

debt. " Our

parents owe us a debt that they cannot pay. Forgiveness may be an insight.

Up until the point of this insight, we expect to get paid what is due us.

After the insight, we release ourselves from the burden of this debt.

I also think that this process happens in levels. Maybe the release

happens in installments. Maybe some of us never fully " pardon. " I haven't yet.

[Guest guest]

That's the way I feel about it; " ...going NC for a while reduced the space they

were occupying in my head everyday, enabling me gradually to get on with MY

life........not worrying about what they wanted, what they felt, what they

needed......every freakin day. "

I just call that " detachment " instead of forgiveness. We each have a different

definitions of or variations on what we consider to be " forgiveness. " And

that's OK. Its all about what works for you, for each of us, individually, now.

-Annie

>

> Forgiving is for You, not necessarily for the offender. Keeping the

> anger just builds more resentment, and they continue to occupy space in our

> head. For me going NC for a while reduced the space they were occupying in

my

> head everyday, enabling me gradually to get on with MY life........not

> worrying about what they wanted, what they felt, what they needed......every

> freakin day. This, for me, was a much needed healing process. Again,

> the forgiveness comes later. I didn't think I'd ever be able to forgive

> them, and it took me years to get to that point

> Laurie

>

>

> In a message dated 9/19/2011 10:13:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> floykoe@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Kotchteddy writes, " Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

> shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

> later.........It takes time. "

>

> musiclady writes:

>

> I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

> Steph

>

> What is forgiveness?

>

> transitive verb

> 1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an

> insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>

> 2 a: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive

> one's enemies>

>

> _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive_

> (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive)

>

> I think that Kotchteddy is right; first you have to heal. Maybe

> forgiveness comes automatically after that. Check out 1b above " forgive a

debt. " Our

> parents owe us a debt that they cannot pay. Forgiveness may be an insight.

> Up until the point of this insight, we expect to get paid what is due us.

> After the insight, we release ourselves from the burden of this debt.

>

> I also think that this process happens in levels. Maybe the release

> happens in installments. Maybe some of us never fully " pardon. " I haven't

yet.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Certainly we can choose to forgive or not. But let's not forget that the anger

serves a purpose, and we forgive or " detach " when we are ready. That anger can

protect us when we are trying to detach. For me right now, it's important that I

have this anger. It is a strength of mine right now in dealing with this. I'm

sure someday I will not need the anger to keep me safe and keep me from allowing

her to hurt me again, but right now it works for me (and no, it's not ruining

my life to have this anger).

Sometimes anger can fuel you to take control of a situation--if you are angry

about an injustice you will be motivated to act, for example. So sometimes can't

our anger motivate us to seek better lives for ourselves? I feel like that is

what mine does for me right now. It motivates me to not allow her to have any

more of my life.

> >

> > Forgiving is for You, not necessarily for the offender. Keeping the

> > anger just builds more resentment, and they continue to occupy space in our

> > head. For me going NC for a while reduced the space they were occupying in

my

> > head everyday, enabling me gradually to get on with MY life........not

> > worrying about what they wanted, what they felt, what they needed......every

> > freakin day. This, for me, was a much needed healing process. Again,

> > the forgiveness comes later. I didn't think I'd ever be able to forgive

> > them, and it took me years to get to that point

> > Laurie

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 9/19/2011 10:13:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > floykoe@ writes:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Kotchteddy writes, " Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

> > shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

> > later.........It takes time. "

> >

> > musiclady writes:

> >

> > I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

> > Steph

> >

> > What is forgiveness?

> >

> > transitive verb

> > 1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an

> > insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>

> > 2 a: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive

> > one's enemies>

> >

> > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive_

> > (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive)

> >

> > I think that Kotchteddy is right; first you have to heal. Maybe

> > forgiveness comes automatically after that. Check out 1b above " forgive a

debt. " Our

> > parents owe us a debt that they cannot pay. Forgiveness may be an insight.

> > Up until the point of this insight, we expect to get paid what is due us.

> > After the insight, we release ourselves from the burden of this debt.

> >

> > I also think that this process happens in levels. Maybe the release

> > happens in installments. Maybe some of us never fully " pardon. " I haven't

yet.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I meant also to say that this is just what works for me and is my opinion. Food

for thought is all...

> > >

> > > Forgiving is for You, not necessarily for the offender. Keeping the

> > > anger just builds more resentment, and they continue to occupy space in

our

> > > head. For me going NC for a while reduced the space they were occupying

in my

> > > head everyday, enabling me gradually to get on with MY life........not

> > > worrying about what they wanted, what they felt, what they

needed......every

> > > freakin day. This, for me, was a much needed healing process. Again,

> > > the forgiveness comes later. I didn't think I'd ever be able to forgive

> > > them, and it took me years to get to that point

> > > Laurie

> > >

> > >

> > > In a message dated 9/19/2011 10:13:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > floykoe@ writes:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Kotchteddy writes, " Until I went NC, then LC, they were calling the

> > > shots.......now I am. That's where the healing begins, forgiveness comes

> > > later.........It takes time. "

> > >

> > > musiclady writes:

> > >

> > > I am lc and sruggling to be myself.

> > > Steph

> > >

> > > What is forgiveness?

> > >

> > > transitive verb

> > > 1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an

> > > insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>

> > > 2 a: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive

> > > one's enemies>

> > >

> > > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive_

> > > (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive)

> > >

> > > I think that Kotchteddy is right; first you have to heal. Maybe

> > > forgiveness comes automatically after that. Check out 1b above " forgive a

debt. " Our

> > > parents owe us a debt that they cannot pay. Forgiveness may be an insight.

> > > Up until the point of this insight, we expect to get paid what is due us.

> > > After the insight, we release ourselves from the burden of this debt.

> > >

> > > I also think that this process happens in levels. Maybe the release

> > > happens in installments. Maybe some of us never fully " pardon. " I haven't

yet.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >