Is my dad a FADA?

[Guest guest]

My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see my father for

who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came up; the focus was

always my mother (a true nada).

Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose between living on

the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always considered blameless)

and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil). The honey moon period

never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the door as soon as I got here.

Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my arrival, but dad over-rided her. After

all, his granddaughter was a part of the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably

would have been on my own. Of course, my daughter is the reason it has been so

hard to find employment; she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or

grave and day shift hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly, it took

very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is still a pain

sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is functional. This is

like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago we were at each others

throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below, step-mother is actually

on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he employs a gal we

will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of, Kate has a very low

opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do to let her know that I

respect her; she is very good with the clients and does a great job. Kate and

my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell jokes and they both love working

together. However, Kate treats me like shit. I don't expect Kate to like me;

it is her prerogative whether she like someone or not. However, I am taking

great offense to the way she treats me. Yes, this is a very complex household.

So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate treats me and

was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her arguments for

having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from the ancient past

(before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't caught on to this yet,

my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no support for me; essentially

choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence, my dad told me that if I wanted

to continue living in this house that I better just do what Kate says from now

on (the hired help btw). WTF!

I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I never

had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as long as

my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't get his hired help

under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened to kick me out and I

called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if he didn't have the balls.

Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we both know really makes my dad

mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f word, I was " OUT. " I added a few

cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a defiant smirk on my face, to prove I knew

he was bluffing. If it wasn't for his granddaughter, I would have been thrown

out that very night. We yelled at each other at the top of our lungs.

Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so he agreed to

tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave me alone, and that

if she had a problem with me she would have to go through my dad. I assured him

that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best employee he has ever had).

I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter, I defend her

at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a later time). That is

something I am proud to give my daughter, because I never got it and never will.

I wish I had a parent that would defend me before I even had to say anything,

but instead I have to have a shouting match and play power cards and take what

is rightfully mine, by force.

[Guest guest]

I find it very odd that the hired help cares so much about the situation to

choose sides in the first place. This is not normal behavior for an employee, it

strikes me more as the role of the step mother. Just plain weird.

Welcome to the Fada Club, btw! I've been mind-drafting a letter to my Fada today

to give him a long overdue kick in the ass.

>

> My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see my father

for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came up; the focus

was always my mother (a true nada).

>

> Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose between living

on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always considered blameless)

and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil). The honey moon period

never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the door as soon as I got here.

Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my arrival, but dad over-rided her. After

all, his granddaughter was a part of the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably

would have been on my own. Of course, my daughter is the reason it has been so

hard to find employment; she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or

grave and day shift hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

>

> So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly, it took

very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is still a pain

sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is functional. This is

like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago we were at each others

throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below, step-mother is actually

on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

>

> My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he employs a gal

we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of, Kate has a very

low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do to let her know

that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and does a great job.

Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell jokes and they both love

working together. However, Kate treats me like shit. I don't expect Kate to

like me; it is her prerogative whether she like someone or not. However, I am

taking great offense to the way she treats me. Yes, this is a very complex

household.

>

> So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate treats me and

was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her arguments for

having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from the ancient past

(before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't caught on to this yet,

my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no support for me; essentially

choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence, my dad told me that if I wanted

to continue living in this house that I better just do what Kate says from now

on (the hired help btw). WTF!

>

> I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I

never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as

long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't get his hired

help under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened to kick me out

and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if he didn't have the

balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we both know really makes

my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f word, I was " OUT. " I added a

few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a defiant smirk on my face, to prove I

knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't for his granddaughter, I would have been

thrown out that very night. We yelled at each other at the top of our lungs.

>

> Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so he agreed to

tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave me alone, and that

if she had a problem with me she would have to go through my dad. I assured him

that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best employee he has ever had).

>

> I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter, I defend

her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a later time).

That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I never got it and

never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me before I even had to say

anything, but instead I have to have a shouting match and play power cards and

take what is rightfully mine, by force.

>

[Guest guest]

So now everything is back to normal. Kate came back to work today just as I

left for town. When I came back I could tell that my dad had talked to Kate

about things, because she was avoiding eye contact with me. Maybe my dad is not

a FADA, I just don't know why it was so hard for him to take my side in this

instance. Maybe he was afraid of loosing Kate and he was denying the issue in

order to avoid possible problems. He is afraid of conflict.

Everything is peaceful now, but I may never fully understand what happened. I

feel like this was a glimpse into my past. I was made out to be a bad guy buy

my nada and no one could see the truth. I think my dad saw the truth though and

denied it in order to avoid problems. I felt rage when my nada would do this

and no one would defend me. Now, after therapy, I can defend myself, but I

still feel the rage when someone actively attacks my character. That night

yelling at my dad was the angriest I have been in years.

My dad was a fada when I was a defenseless child. He still is sort of a fada in

this one area, but he does support me in other areas. So I guess he is not all

bad. He does defend me from step-mother, even though he doesn't have to so much

anymore. And with Kate, he does defend me if I make him. A fada probably would

have thrown me and my daughter out that night and he didn't. His priorities did

check out in the end; it was just a painful process.

> >

> > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see my father

for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came up; the focus

was always my mother (a true nada).

> >

> > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose between living

on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always considered blameless)

and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil). The honey moon period

never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the door as soon as I got here.

Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my arrival, but dad over-rided her. After

all, his granddaughter was a part of the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably

would have been on my own. Of course, my daughter is the reason it has been so

hard to find employment; she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or

grave and day shift hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> >

> > So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly, it took

very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is still a pain

sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is functional. This is

like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago we were at each others

throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below, step-mother is actually

on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> >

> > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he employs a

gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of, Kate has a

very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do to let her

know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and does a great job.

Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell jokes and they both love

working together. However, Kate treats me like shit. I don't expect Kate to

like me; it is her prerogative whether she like someone or not. However, I am

taking great offense to the way she treats me. Yes, this is a very complex

household.

> >

> > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate treats me

and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her arguments for

having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from the ancient past

(before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't caught on to this yet,

my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no support for me; essentially

choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence, my dad told me that if I wanted

to continue living in this house that I better just do what Kate says from now

on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> >

> > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I

never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as

long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't get his hired

help under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened to kick me out

and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if he didn't have the

balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we both know really makes

my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f word, I was " OUT. " I added a

few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a defiant smirk on my face, to prove I

knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't for his granddaughter, I would have been

thrown out that very night. We yelled at each other at the top of our lungs.

> >

> > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so he agreed

to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave me alone, and

that if she had a problem with me she would have to go through my dad. I

assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best employee he has

ever had).

> >

> > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter, I defend

her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a later time).

That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I never got it and

never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me before I even had to say

anything, but instead I have to have a shouting match and play power cards and

take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just want to share with you that how you say you play your

daughter as a card strikes up very disturbing emotions for me. This is just my

opinion, but I don't think parents should use their child in this way, and you

might not think it affects your daughter, and clearly it is a stressful

situation, but are you sure she doesn't hear

you and your father screaming and swearing at each other? My parents

played me as a card against each other and screamed at each other day

and night and it made my life miserable from the day I was born. It

sounds like you are using your daughter, and maybe that's not the way

it is, but just from the way you yourself phrased it, maybe that's

something to think about...

I know it's hard when you're in a complicated situation, and you sound like you

really care about your daughter, so I wanted to share this with you to give you

another side of this " card playing " to consider. I do not mean any offense.

-afldancer

> > >

> > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see my

father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came up;

the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > >

> > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose between

living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always considered

blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil). The honey moon

period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the door as soon as I got

here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my arrival, but dad over-rided her.

After all, his granddaughter was a part of the deal. If it wasn't for her, I

probably would have been on my own. Of course, my daughter is the reason it has

been so hard to find employment; she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work

swing or grave and day shift hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > >

> > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly, it

took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is still a

pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is functional. This

is like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago we were at each others

throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below, step-mother is actually

on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > >

> > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he employs a

gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of, Kate has a

very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do to let her

know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and does a great job.

Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell jokes and they both love

working together. However, Kate treats me like shit. I don't expect Kate to

like me; it is her prerogative whether she like someone or not. However, I am

taking great offense to the way she treats me. Yes, this is a very complex

household.

> > >

> > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate treats me

and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her arguments for

having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from the ancient past

(before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't caught on to this yet,

my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no support for me; essentially

choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence, my dad told me that if I wanted

to continue living in this house that I better just do what Kate says from now

on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > >

> > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I

never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as

long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't get his hired

help under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened to kick me out

and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if he didn't have the

balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we both know really makes

my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f word, I was " OUT. " I added a

few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a defiant smirk on my face, to prove I

knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't for his granddaughter, I would have been

thrown out that very night. We yelled at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > >

> > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so he

agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave me

alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go through my

dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best

employee he has ever had).

> > >

> > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter, I

defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a later

time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I never got it

and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me before I even had to

say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting match and play power cards

and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You make a good point afldancer and I should have made it more clear that my

daughter's name was never used in the argument, " I had a pretty powerful card of

my own to play; the granddaughter card. I never had to mention my daughter, but

we both know he will not kick me out as long as my granddaughter is here. " No

one should use their kids as pawns. And yes, my daughter was scared when she

heard my dad and me yelling, especially since my daughter was exposed to a lot

of DV by her mother before I finally put an end to. I think this was the first

time in 11 years she ever heard me this angry, so it is not like a regular

problem. There is a big difference between DV yelling and normal conflict type

yelling, but she did not sleep well that night.

It was a fight, but the cool thing about it was that my dad and I fought it out

to completion. The granddaughter card was a silent one and it was necessary.

It is not good for my daughter to see her dad being disrespected by someone who

wasn't even a family member. The situation was a serious one that had to be

dealt with. I talked to my daughter afterward and so did grandpa, she was

assured that everything was fine; that we just had to talk about something that

was hard to talk about.

However, I hope no one got the impression from my post that it was ok to use

kids as pawns and that you should yell frequently at people during conflict.

Conflict happens and sometimes it happens when the kids are home, but hopefully

conflict at this level is a very rare occurrence.

I am glad you brought this possible confusion up, when I wrote it I was in a

different state of mind. Sorry for any miscommunication.

> > > >

> > > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see my

father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came up;

the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > > >

> > > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose between

living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always considered

blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil). The honey moon

period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the door as soon as I got

here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my arrival, but dad over-rided her.

After all, his granddaughter was a part of the deal. If it wasn't for her, I

probably would have been on my own. Of course, my daughter is the reason it has

been so hard to find employment; she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work

swing or grave and day shift hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > > >

> > > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly, it

took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is still a

pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is functional. This

is like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago we were at each others

throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below, step-mother is actually

on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > > >

> > > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he employs

a gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of, Kate has a

very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do to let her

know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and does a great job.

Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell jokes and they both love

working together. However, Kate treats me like shit. I don't expect Kate to

like me; it is her prerogative whether she like someone or not. However, I am

taking great offense to the way she treats me. Yes, this is a very complex

household.

> > > >

> > > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate treats

me and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her arguments

for having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from the ancient

past (before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't caught on to this

yet, my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no support for me;

essentially choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence, my dad told me that

if I wanted to continue living in this house that I better just do what Kate

says from now on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > > >

> > > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter card.

I never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as

long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't get his hired

help under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened to kick me out

and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if he didn't have the

balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we both know really makes

my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f word, I was " OUT. " I added a

few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a defiant smirk on my face, to prove I

knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't for his granddaughter, I would have been

thrown out that very night. We yelled at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > > >

> > > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so he

agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave me

alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go through my

dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best

employee he has ever had).

> > > >

> > > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter, I

defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a later

time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I never got it

and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me before I even had to

say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting match and play power cards

and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To be honest, PDFF, the kid as a card thing, plus you coming out as BPD

makes me very uncomfortable. I'm not even remotely cool with it.

> **

>

>

> You make a good point afldancer and I should have made it more clear that

> my daughter's name was never used in the argument, " I had a pretty powerful

> card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I never had to mention my

> daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as long as my

> granddaughter is here. " No one should use their kids as pawns. And yes, my

> daughter was scared when she heard my dad and me yelling, especially since

> my daughter was exposed to a lot of DV by her mother before I finally put an

> end to. I think this was the first time in 11 years she ever heard me this

> angry, so it is not like a regular problem. There is a big difference

> between DV yelling and normal conflict type yelling, but she did not sleep

> well that night.

>

> It was a fight, but the cool thing about it was that my dad and I fought it

> out to completion. The granddaughter card was a silent one and it was

> necessary. It is not good for my daughter to see her dad being disrespected

> by someone who wasn't even a family member. The situation was a serious one

> that had to be dealt with. I talked to my daughter afterward and so did

> grandpa, she was assured that everything was fine; that we just had to talk

> about something that was hard to talk about.as

>

> However, I hope no one got the impression from my post that it was ok to

> use kids as pawns and that you should yell frequently at people during

> conflict. Conflict happens and sometimes it happens when the kids are home,

> but hopefully conflict at this level is a very rare occurrence.

>

> I am glad you brought this possible confusion up, when I wrote it I was in

> a different state of mind. Sorry for any miscommunication.

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would see

> my father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely came

> up; the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > > > >

> > > > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose

> between living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always

> considered blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered evil).

> The honey moon period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the

> door as soon as I got here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my

> arrival, but dad over-rided her. After all, his granddaughter was a part of

> the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably would have been on my own. Of

> course, my daughter is the reason it has been so hard to find employment;

> she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or grave and day shift

> hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > > > >

> > > > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation. Surprisingly,

> it took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is

> still a pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is

> functional. This is like a major miracle, because as early as one year ago

> we were at each others throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue below,

> step-mother is actually on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > > > >

> > > > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he

> employs a gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure of,

> Kate has a very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to do

> to let her know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and

> does a great job. Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell

> jokes and they both love working together. However, Kate treats me like

> shit. I don't expect Kate to like me; it is her prerogative whether she like

> someone or not. However, I am taking great offense to the way she treats me.

> Yes, this is a very complex household.

> > > > >

> > > > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate

> treats me and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all her

> arguments for having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff from

> the ancient past (before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't

> caught on to this yet, my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had no

> support for me; essentially choosing her over me (his son btw). In essence,

> my dad told me that if I wanted to continue living in this house that I

> better just do what Kate says from now on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > > > >

> > > > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter

> card. I never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not kick

> me out as long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he didn't

> get his hired help under control, that I would do it for him. He threatened

> to kick me out and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it if

> he didn't have the balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which we

> both know really makes my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f

> word, I was " OUT. " I added a few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a

> defiant smirk on my face, to prove I knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't for

> his granddaughter, I would have been thrown out that very night. We yelled

> at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so

> he agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to leave

> me alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go through

> my dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the best

> employee he has ever had).

> > > > >

> > > > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my daughter,

> I defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a

> later time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I

> never got it and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me

> before I even had to say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting

> match and play power cards and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I talked to my daughter afterward and so did grandpa, she was assured that

> everything was fine; that we just had to talk about something that was hard

> to talk about.

>

I wish I had been told this after bearing witness to fights and arguments or

getting yelled at... maybe I would have been less scared all the time.

My mom used to use whatever she could against me to get me to do what she

wanted. She mentioned to me today that she was giving my brother a hard

time because he has been staying up late. I told her, hey, you know what

you should do? You should threaten to cut him off if he doesn't start going

to bed on time. Her response was that she has already said that to him. I

asked what my brother said and she said " oh he just tells me you wouldn't do

that mom. "

I wish I had known that would work!!!! Would have saved so many years of

fear and emotional trauma!!!! Anyway, to me it sounds like you had a

similar interaction like my brother has where you were calling your dad's

bluff because you know he wouldn't kick you out. (The primary reason just

happening to be your daughter) So not really playing her as a card, but her

being your fada's " tell " that lets you know it's safe to call his bluff (to

continue the card analogy.)

In re to: " you coming out as BPD " I don't want to say anything to create

conflict, but did I miss the message where this happened? It has gotten me

thinking that I wonder if there are BPD people who can (accurately)

recognize the BP in others but not themselves. I wouldn't be surprised

because BPs tend to have huge blinders on when it comes to anything that

might be perceived as a weakness >.> I imagine that BPD is one of those

things where " admitting you have a problem is the first step " is especially

true and is more of a leap than a step.

HAHA I wonder if BPs with Munchhausen could be convinced that BP is a

disease that would get them a lot of attention and support. hmmmmm.

Lars

[Guest guest]

This leaves me pretty uncomfortable too.

Sunspot

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> To be honest, PDFF, the kid as a card thing, plus you coming out as BPD

> makes me very uncomfortable. I'm not even remotely cool with it.

>

>

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > You make a good point afldancer and I should have made it more clear that

> > my daughter's name was never used in the argument, " I had a pretty

> powerful

> > card of my own to play; the granddaughter card. I never had to mention my

> > daughter, but we both know he will not kick me out as long as my

> > granddaughter is here. " No one should use their kids as pawns. And yes,

> my

> > daughter was scared when she heard my dad and me yelling, especially

> since

> > my daughter was exposed to a lot of DV by her mother before I finally put

> an

> > end to. I think this was the first time in 11 years she ever heard me

> this

> > angry, so it is not like a regular problem. There is a big difference

> > between DV yelling and normal conflict type yelling, but she did not

> sleep

> > well that night.

> >

> > It was a fight, but the cool thing about it was that my dad and I fought

> it

> > out to completion. The granddaughter card was a silent one and it was

> > necessary. It is not good for my daughter to see her dad being

> disrespected

> > by someone who wasn't even a family member. The situation was a serious

> one

> > that had to be dealt with. I talked to my daughter afterward and so did

> > grandpa, she was assured that everything was fine; that we just had to

> talk

> > about something that was hard to talk about.as

> >

> > However, I hope no one got the impression from my post that it was ok to

> > use kids as pawns and that you should yell frequently at people during

> > conflict. Conflict happens and sometimes it happens when the kids are

> home,

> > but hopefully conflict at this level is a very rare occurrence.

> >

> > I am glad you brought this possible confusion up, when I wrote it I was

> in

> > a different state of mind. Sorry for any miscommunication.

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would

> see

> > my father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely

> came

> > up; the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose

> > between living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always

> > considered blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered

> evil).

> > The honey moon period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the

> > door as soon as I got here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my

> > arrival, but dad over-rided her. After all, his granddaughter was a part

> of

> > the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably would have been on my own. Of

> > course, my daughter is the reason it has been so hard to find employment;

> > she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or grave and day shift

> > hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation.

> Surprisingly,

> > it took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is

> > still a pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is

> > functional. This is like a major miracle, because as early as one year

> ago

> > we were at each others throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue

> below,

> > step-mother is actually on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he

> > employs a gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure

> of,

> > Kate has a very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to

> do

> > to let her know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and

> > does a great job. Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell

> > jokes and they both love working together. However, Kate treats me like

> > shit. I don't expect Kate to like me; it is her prerogative whether she

> like

> > someone or not. However, I am taking great offense to the way she treats

> me.

> > Yes, this is a very complex household.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate

> > treats me and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all

> her

> > arguments for having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff

> from

> > the ancient past (before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't

> > caught on to this yet, my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had

> no

> > support for me; essentially choosing her over me (his son btw). In

> essence,

> > my dad told me that if I wanted to continue living in this house that I

> > better just do what Kate says from now on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter

> > card. I never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not

> kick

> > me out as long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he

> didn't

> > get his hired help under control, that I would do it for him. He

> threatened

> > to kick me out and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it

> if

> > he didn't have the balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which

> we

> > both know really makes my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f

> > word, I was " OUT. " I added a few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a

> > defiant smirk on my face, to prove I knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't

> for

> > his granddaughter, I would have been thrown out that very night. We

> yelled

> > at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so

> > he agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to

> leave

> > me alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go

> through

> > my dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the

> best

> > employee he has ever had).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my

> daughter,

> > I defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a

> > later time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I

> > never got it and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me

> > before I even had to say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting

> > match and play power cards and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to admit that since this Group is defined as being " for the non-bpd

offspring " of bpd parents, the idea of having bpd members here makes me

uncomfortable also, because it makes me feel inhibited about sharing my true

feelings about my abuse/my abuser. And I have to admit that I find that your

tactic, pdff, of using your child even indirectly as a tool to manipulate your

dad with doesn't sit right with me either; its kind of the same as hitting below

the belt.

Both your dad's belt and your daughter's.

In my opinion.

-Annie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would

> > see

> > > my father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely

> > came

> > > up; the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose

> > > between living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always

> > > considered blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered

> > evil).

> > > The honey moon period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the

> > > door as soon as I got here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my

> > > arrival, but dad over-rided her. After all, his granddaughter was a part

> > of

> > > the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably would have been on my own. Of

> > > course, my daughter is the reason it has been so hard to find employment;

> > > she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or grave and day shift

> > > hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation.

> > Surprisingly,

> > > it took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is

> > > still a pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is

> > > functional. This is like a major miracle, because as early as one year

> > ago

> > > we were at each others throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue

> > below,

> > > step-mother is actually on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he

> > > employs a gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure

> > of,

> > > Kate has a very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to

> > do

> > > to let her know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and

> > > does a great job. Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell

> > > jokes and they both love working together. However, Kate treats me like

> > > shit. I don't expect Kate to like me; it is her prerogative whether she

> > like

> > > someone or not. However, I am taking great offense to the way she treats

> > me.

> > > Yes, this is a very complex household.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate

> > > treats me and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all

> > her

> > > arguments for having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff

> > from

> > > the ancient past (before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't

> > > caught on to this yet, my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had

> > no

> > > support for me; essentially choosing her over me (his son btw). In

> > essence,

> > > my dad told me that if I wanted to continue living in this house that I

> > > better just do what Kate says from now on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter

> > > card. I never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not

> > kick

> > > me out as long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he

> > didn't

> > > get his hired help under control, that I would do it for him. He

> > threatened

> > > to kick me out and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it

> > if

> > > he didn't have the balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which

> > we

> > > both know really makes my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f

> > > word, I was " OUT. " I added a few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a

> > > defiant smirk on my face, to prove I knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't

> > for

> > > his granddaughter, I would have been thrown out that very night. We

> > yelled

> > > at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so

> > > he agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to

> > leave

> > > me alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go

> > through

> > > my dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the

> > best

> > > employee he has ever had).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my

> > daughter,

> > > I defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a

> > > later time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I

> > > never got it and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me

> > > before I even had to say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting

> > > match and play power cards and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Please excuse me All, for not being a more committed member of this list. I've

been here a long time and know that it is rare we have a person on list who has

BPD.

Not to slight you, Pdff, for you see progress in your treatment for BPD, and I

see you are asking for help, thinking of yourself now as being a non. You too

are a kid of a BPD. But you may need the perspective and compassion of others

who are recovered BP's.

I personally am interested, and optimistic, about your ability to work through

the issues you present. If this were my call alone, I would welcome you. But my

sense is that there has been past consensus on this list that once a Borderline,

always a Borderline. I want to apologize lest that gets your back up. In fact,

if that gets your back up, you may understand that it puts many kids-of on our

guard, when we are needing to let our guards down on this list.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Thank you, . Those are the wordss I was struggling to find. I want to be

welcoming, but I am too uncomfortable. You described my torn feelings

perfecttly.

>

> Please excuse me All, for not being a more committed member of this list. I've

been here a long time and know that it is rare we have a person on list who has

BPD.

>

> Not to slight you, Pdff, for you see progress in your treatment for BPD, and I

see you are asking for help, thinking of yourself now as being a non. You too

are a kid of a BPD. But you may need the perspective and compassion of others

who are recovered BP's.

>

> I personally am interested, and optimistic, about your ability to work through

the issues you present. If this were my call alone, I would welcome you. But my

sense is that there has been past consensus on this list that once a Borderline,

always a Borderline. I want to apologize lest that gets your back up. In fact,

if that gets your back up, you may understand that it puts many kids-of on our

guard, when we are needing to let our guards down on this list.

>

> Best,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very well said, . I've been around a long time too now, and have

only known of one other time that there has been someone with BPD here and

it was very uncomfortable for many people, including myself. Now, I haven't

much time to post due to school and am now podting here from what I consider

a very much healed place. However, I still find it a bit odd that someone

with BPD would be here and absolutely see why list members would feel very

uncomfortable with it. As you said, " we are needing to let our guards down

on this list " . And yes, I agree that our guards instantly go up when a

person suffering from BPD is here.

PDFF - I also want to state that the whole " daughter-card " thing is very

disturbing and frankly disgusting to me. That child is a person and should

not be used as a " card " in any way, shape, or form to manipulate someone. I

believe that if you truly wish to heal from BPD then it would be very very

wise to stop using your daughter as a weapon. Otherwise someday she might

be the one here, looking for support.

Make your choices wisely as you are the only one in this world you have

control over, not anyone else. And again, I agree with , perhaps a

place with others suffering from and recovering from BPD would be a better

place for you.

I also do wish you well in your steps towards healing.

Mia

>

> Please excuse me All, for not being a more committed member of this list.

> I've been here a long time and know that it is rare we have a person on list

> who has BPD.

>

> Not to slight you, Pdff, for you see progress in your treatment for BPD,

> and I see you are asking for help, thinking of yourself now as being a non.

> You too are a kid of a BPD. But you may need the perspective and compassion

> of others who are recovered BP's.

>

> I personally am interested, and optimistic, about your ability to work

> through the issues you present. If this were my call alone, I would welcome

> you. But my sense is that there has been past consensus on this list that

> once a Borderline, always a Borderline. I want to apologize lest that gets

> your back up. In fact, if that gets your back up, you may understand that it

> puts many kids-of on our guard, when we are needing to let our guards down

> on this list.

>

> Best,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can imagine it is a very real bind for KO's of BPD's who have BPD. We get

uncomfortable, why wouldn't we? If only at some point because we might really

offend someone by venting out our negative feelings toward BPD. We've got have

somewhere to do it. Yet a KO's issues are special and even if they have BPD

those issues are still there and this is unique forum. I don't really have any

answers really....just thinking.

Eliza

[Guest guest]

There is another person on the list that has come out as former BPD in a

response to one of my previous posts... I was wondering how this went over. I'm

not really comfortable with having anyone with BPD on this list either. Annie

said it really well!

-Charity

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:50 AM

Subject: Re: Is my dad a FADA?

Â

I have to admit that since this Group is defined as being " for the non-bpd

offspring " of bpd parents, the idea of having bpd members here makes me

uncomfortable also, because it makes me feel inhibited about sharing my true

feelings about my abuse/my abuser. And I have to admit that I find that your

tactic, pdff, of using your child even indirectly as a tool to manipulate your

dad with doesn't sit right with me either; its kind of the same as hitting below

the belt.

Both your dad's belt and your daughter's.

In my opinion.

-Annie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My therapist warned me that this day would come, where I would

> > see

> > > my father for who he really is. In 4 years of therapy my father rarely

> > came

> > > up; the focus was always my mother (a true nada).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Due to the economy being the way it is,I was forced to choose

> > > between living on the street or moving in with my dad (whom I have always

> > > considered blameless) and step-mother (whom I have always considered

> > evil).

> > > The honey moon period never happened, tensions were waiting for me at the

> > > door as soon as I got here. Step-mother did her darnedest to stop my

> > > arrival, but dad over-rided her. After all, his granddaughter was a part

> > of

> > > the deal. If it wasn't for her, I probably would have been on my own. Of

> > > course, my daughter is the reason it has been so hard to find employment;

> > > she has abandonment issues, so I cannot work swing or grave and day shift

> > > hours are extremely competitive in this job market.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So here we are, all of us together in this situation.

> > Surprisingly,

> > > it took very little time for me to make peace with my step-mother. She is

> > > still a pain sometimes, but we have worked out a relationship that is

> > > functional. This is like a major miracle, because as early as one year

> > ago

> > > we were at each others throats. Now we are sweat as pie. In the issue

> > below,

> > > step-mother is actually on my side. No one is more surprised than me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My dad runs a group home for elderly and disabled people and he

> > > employs a gal we will call Kate. For reasons that I am not totally sure

> > of,

> > > Kate has a very low opinion of me. I have tried everything I know how to

> > do

> > > to let her know that I respect her; she is very good with the clients and

> > > does a great job. Kate and my dad are like best buds; they laugh and tell

> > > jokes and they both love working together. However, Kate treats me like

> > > shit. I don't expect Kate to like me; it is her prerogative whether she

> > like

> > > someone or not. However, I am taking great offense to the way she treats

> > me.

> > > Yes, this is a very complex household.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So last night I broached the subject with my dad about how Kate

> > > treats me and was shocked and hurt to see him take her side; citing all

> > her

> > > arguments for having a negative attitude about me and drudging up stuff

> > from

> > > the ancient past (before therapy) for good measure. In case you haven't

> > > caught on to this yet, my dad was choosing his hired help's side and had

> > no

> > > support for me; essentially choosing her over me (his son btw). In

> > essence,

> > > my dad told me that if I wanted to continue living in this house that I

> > > better just do what Kate says from now on (the hired help btw). WTF!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I had a pretty powerful card of my own to play; the granddaughter

> > > card. I never had to mention my daughter, but we both know he will not

> > kick

> > > me out as long as my granddaughter is here. So I told him that if he

> > didn't

> > > get his hired help under control, that I would do it for him. He

> > threatened

> > > to kick me out and I called his bluff by assuring him that I would do it

> > if

> > > he didn't have the balls. Plus I was F bombing all over the place, which

> > we

> > > both know really makes my dad mad. He said if I didn't stop using the f

> > > word, I was " OUT. " I added a few cuss words to the F bomb mix, with a

> > > defiant smirk on my face, to prove I knew he was bluffing. If it wasn't

> > for

> > > his granddaughter, I would have been thrown out that very night. We

> > yelled

> > > at each other at the top of our lungs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, he didn't have the balls to kick me and my daughter out, so

> > > he agreed to tell Kate that I was off limits to her, that she was to

> > leave

> > > me alone, and that if she had a problem with me she would have to go

> > through

> > > my dad. I assured him that would be in his best interest (Kate is the

> > best

> > > employee he has ever had).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I won, but as I write this I am sad. When it comes to my

> > daughter,

> > > I defend her at all cost, even if she is wrong (then deal with her at a

> > > later time). That is something I am proud to give my daughter, because I

> > > never got it and never will. I wish I had a parent that would defend me

> > > before I even had to say anything, but instead I have to have a shouting

> > > match and play power cards and take what is rightfully mine, by force.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Somehow I missed the post where pdff referred to himself as a BPD? Personally, I

don't believe 'former' can apply when discussing borderlines. FLEAS however

could seem like BPD reactions,especially in very young adults who aren't well

socialized yet. For the record, I am not ok with the idea of sharing here with a

BPD.

As for the 'daughter card' I kind of think perhaps people here are overreacting.

It stuck me more like a 'thinking out loud' comment that was being made about

the specific family dynamics. The post did not say that this type of

manipulation was used--only that both players knew of the motivational dynamic

between them (the granddaughter staying put). Relishing the idea of the 'card'

is not the same as playing the card.

But I can understand why people are getting their back up--we are all children

who have been neglected, manipulated and abused. Former pawns.

I urge pdff to consider that the child has already experienced a lot of uproar.

Having to witness arguments between the adults in her life right now is probably

not ideal.

[Guest guest]

not responding to this post just all of them. I missed the post where the person

'came out' as bpd, too.

oh well. I have to be a contrarian and say I really don't care. I don't know why

I don't and feel like since everyone else does I should too. but mostly I just

vent here, and I'm really not concerned if someone is what I'm venting about. I

can imagine how they feel because when I first came around a couple years ago

there was someone who believed addiction was a moral weakness not a disease and

I felt a bit insulted every time they posted that since *they* drank once and

didn't get addicted, that therefore people who did were just weaklings. I guess

the title does say 'non' for a reason. i left for a few weeks because i was

really getting triggered here...exposure to another group that is less active

helped...as it turned out I was too emotionally invested and needed a break

anyway. I don't think that it was anything anyone did it was my backwards

reaction to social dynamics, I continually find that I move away from healthy

interactions and find myself pulled to and attracted to the unhealthy. I have it

exactly backwards, this is sometimes called 'codependency' but honestly I think

the co behavior is what comes *after* the relationship has been established, I

don't know what the name for the unhealthy attraction is in the first place,

besides magnetic, and the fact that I sometimes feel I wouldn't know a healthy

sense of self in another person if it slapped me upside the head. (of course

then I think about my sister in law and immediately feel a bit better because

she is so messed up).

>

> Somehow I missed the post where pdff referred to himself as a BPD? Personally,

I don't believe 'former' can apply when discussing borderlines. FLEAS however

could seem like BPD reactions,especially in very young adults who aren't well

socialized yet. For the record, I am not ok with the idea of sharing here with a

BPD.

>

> As for the 'daughter card' I kind of think perhaps people here are

overreacting. It stuck me more like a 'thinking out loud' comment that was being

made about the specific family dynamics. The post did not say that this type of

manipulation was used--only that both players knew of the motivational dynamic

between them (the granddaughter staying put). Relishing the idea of the 'card'

is not the same as playing the card.

>

> But I can understand why people are getting their back up--we are all children

who have been neglected, manipulated and abused. Former pawns.

>

> I urge pdff to consider that the child has already experienced a lot of

uproar. Having to witness arguments between the adults in her life right now is

probably not ideal.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I really don't care, either. First point - there's no way to keep BPD's

off the site - they can lurk, or just not divulge that they are BP's. Second

point - for me not to participate due to the presence of a BP on the site

doesn't hurt the BP - it limits ME. And I'm not going down that road again.

Third point - there have been other people on here who have seemed purposely

obtuse, people who seem to want to argue for the sake of argument, people who

post messages that seem aimed at getting attention rather than participating in

the dialogue, people who seem to want to defend behavior that gets the

Dysfunction Alert sirens going in my mind. Once I see that pattern, I use my

" Delete " key without even reading what they're saying. Just like life with Nada

- she may still be around, but that doesn't mean I have to care what she thinks

or listen to what she says. So I don't think we have to expend any energy in

monitoring, arguing with, or excluding people who violate boundaries or push our

buttons - beyond hitting the Delete key when we see their posts. It's a sort of

on-line Medium Chill. Eventually, the message will be received and they'll go

elsewhere. I know who gives good advice and support on here. Those are the

names I look for. It's like having a conversation in a crowded room. I seek

out those whose opinion I value.

> >

> > Somehow I missed the post where pdff referred to himself as a BPD?

Personally, I don't believe 'former' can apply when discussing borderlines.

FLEAS however could seem like BPD reactions,especially in very young adults who

aren't well socialized yet. For the record, I am not ok with the idea of sharing

here with a BPD.

> >

> > As for the 'daughter card' I kind of think perhaps people here are

overreacting. It stuck me more like a 'thinking out loud' comment that was being

made about the specific family dynamics. The post did not say that this type of

manipulation was used--only that both players knew of the motivational dynamic

between them (the granddaughter staying put). Relishing the idea of the 'card'

is not the same as playing the card.

> >

> > But I can understand why people are getting their back up--we are all

children who have been neglected, manipulated and abused. Former pawns.

> >

> > I urge pdff to consider that the child has already experienced a lot of

uproar. Having to witness arguments between the adults in her life right now is

probably not ideal.

> >

>