disturbing borderline conversational rhythm

[Guest guest]

Hi list-mates,

Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is really

annoying me. It goes like this:

BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some other

expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or NPD,

in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

--Charlie

[Guest guest]

I think your observation is on-target.

I'll add a corollary to your theory: if the person engaging in that kind of

behavior is in the Cluster B category, then the most likely function or goal of

that behavior is to keep you *off-balance* and control you by leading the

conversation in a specific direction, then discounting or disagreeing with your

(logical and empathetic) response.

But if this behavior is coming from a person who is somewhat psychotic

/delusional /paranoid /disconnected with reality then they have no agenda or

goal, there is no logic involved and its sort of like " short attention span

theater. " Like trying to have a conversation with one of the characters from

" Alice in Wonderland " where all they speak is nonsense.

In either case, it is very crazy-making. ACK!!

-Annie

>

> Hi list-mates,

>

> Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is really

annoying me. It goes like this:

>

> BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

>

> Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

>

> BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

>

> Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

>

> BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or

NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

>

> If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

PS:

It has also occurred to me that such a bizarre and frustrating conversational

exchange could be due to the bpd person having painted you " all black/all bad " ,

so that no matter WHAT you say, even if you are *agreeing* with the pwbpd, you

are wrong / bad / insensitive, etc.

You simply cannot win when you are painted " all bad " .

-Annie

> >

> > Hi list-mates,

> >

> > Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is

really annoying me. It goes like this:

> >

> > BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

> >

> > Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

> >

> > BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

> >

> > Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

> >

> > BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or

NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

> >

> > If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have noticed my aunt and my mother contradict themselves. they will bring up a

topic, then they will get your input, then they will discount it.

i get conversational whiplash when talking to either one of them.

ex: expressing concern for my father's health seriously declining due to my bpd

SIL living with them, and my anger at my mother for not setting limits and

boundaries, and sabotaging him or me when we tried to, aunt says " well, you

can't MAKE her do that " though she'd agreed with me about concern for father,

it's still a thing of making sure not to ever agree with me.

I never thought of it being a rhythm but I totally see that. The point is to

make you feel slightly off kilter, to knock you off balance, to make sure you

never feel 'okay' or heard or validated, to take your peace of mine, just to be

destructive in whatever minor way possible at all times. I'm so sick of all of

it.

>

> Hi list-mates,

>

> Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is really

annoying me. It goes like this:

>

> BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

>

> Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

>

> BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

>

> Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

>

> BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or

NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

>

> If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Mine did that last week. On the phone told me how she took a gift to her

neighbor. I replied that it was a nice thing to do since her neighbors are so

nice. She kept referring to how she took ... significant pause... this surprise

to them, how they reacted. I refused to ask what she took, just kept saying how

nice it was. It was a few days later she couldn't stand it and told me what she

took to them. Just some frozen food from her freezer. Great.

At lunch yesterday she was talking to me but had her face turned towards the guy

at the next table. She was going on about her important job when she was

younger. She went on and on about all this important stuff she did. Basically

she ordered stuff for the government. She does the same projected conversations

in public and talks about her terrible health (funny, the doctor keeps telling

her she's fine.)

>

> Hi list-mates,

>

> Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is really

annoying me. It goes like this:

>

> BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

>

> Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

>

> BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

>

> Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

>

> BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or

NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

>

> If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

That would make me feel like I was invisible, that my participation in the

conversation wasn't even necessary, that even my presence was pointless,

because the person with bpd is just having an imaginary conversation with

herself, but out loud.

I have felt that way when my nada would have what I called a " monologue " at me.

I'd phone her to ask her something or share news with her, and nada would launch

into a 15-minute, non-stop monologue about herself and her news, and perhaps

might not ever even get around to asking me why I'd called, and wouldn't let me

get a word in edgewise.

Its hard to tell sometimes if this behavior is due to pure narcissism (she

enjoys hearing her own voice, and wants to pontificate at you about how

wonderful she is) or if the bpd person has detached from reality and is just

kind of rambling in a way that really isn't a two-way, participatory, real

conversation, turning you in effect into a mere object, like a recording device

or microphone that she is speaking into.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi list-mates,

> >

> > Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is

really annoying me. It goes like this:

> >

> > BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something really

great; or something really terrible has happened to them. Example--yeah, I had

cancer in 2009...

> >

> > Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

> >

> > BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

> >

> > Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

> >

> > BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP or

NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do so.

> >

> > If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well be

talking to a borderline.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. I hadn't thought of it as that way, but that would really explain my

dad's monologues during his rages, or when he was merely trying to " help " me

make the right decisions.

I quickly learned to just stand there and let him yell at me (oh, 15-20

minutes or so) whenever I got in " trouble " (eg, didn't read his mind.) and

say " yes dad. Yes dad. " periodically. I didn't even have to listen, since it

was the same monologue or variations on it. About how I'm not grateful

enough for everything he did, when he works his butt off, puts a roof over

our heads and makes sure we have food and a dog, and he would bring up

various expensive thigns I had incurred, such as my cochlear implant

surgery, or needing glasses or hearing aids. And about how hard they worked

so I could learn to hear. I was simply too ungrateful. And about how he

nearly died of pneumonia while working three jobs just to afford to feed me

and clothe me and give me hearing aids.

It's kind of ridiculous, but it hurt and still hurts because I wasn't good

enough.

Or when I finally announced that I switched majors, my fada talked at me (it

wasn't to me, it was at me) and gave this huge long monologue about I don't

even remember. Basically, he didn't want me to change my major, and he

wanted me to live at home until I graduated grad school. Growing up, I

always did what he wanted me to do. Thankfully that particular time, I was

breaking out of the FOG and didn't listen to him. I moved out and stuck with

my changed major anyway.

Huh. Food for thought. Thanks for sharing your interpretation of it It's

definitely decoding some more of my fada's behavior...

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:48 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> That would make me feel like I was invisible, that my participation in the

> conversation wasn't even necessary, that even my presence was pointless,

> because the person with bpd is just having an imaginary conversation with

> herself, but out loud.

>

> I have felt that way when my nada would have what I called a " monologue " at

> me. I'd phone her to ask her something or share news with her, and nada

> would launch into a 15-minute, non-stop monologue about herself and her

> news, and perhaps might not ever even get around to asking me why I'd

> called, and wouldn't let me get a word in edgewise.

>

> Its hard to tell sometimes if this behavior is due to pure narcissism (she

> enjoys hearing her own voice, and wants to pontificate at you about how

> wonderful she is) or if the bpd person has detached from reality and is just

> kind of rambling in a way that really isn't a two-way, participatory, real

> conversation, turning you in effect into a mere object, like a recording

> device or microphone that she is speaking into.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi list-mates,

> > >

> > > Today one particular borderline/narcissist conversational technique is

> really annoying me. It goes like this:

> > >

> > > BPD: says something cryptic indicating that they have done something

> really great; or something really terrible has happened to them.

> Example--yeah, I had cancer in 2009...

> > >

> > > Non: to be civil needs to acknowledge such a large disclosure, and also

> innocently needs more information. I had no idea! What kind of cancer?

> > >

> > > BPD: Oh, cervical. I had to undergo chemo for six months.

> > >

> > > Non: That's terrible! What an ordeal. You must be a survivor! (Or some

> other expression or sympathy or acknowledgement).

> > >

> > > BPD: Now attacks the Non. 'OH it was no big deal at ALL' says the BDP

> or NPD, in some way, thereby attacking the Non for trying to give

> sympathy/acknowledgment--when the BPD had specifically BAITED the non to do

> so.

> > >

> > > If you find yourself doing this conversational dance, you may very well

> be talking to a borderline.

> > >

> > > --Charlie

> > >

> >

>

>

>