Guest guest Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Its hard to say, and really I'm not qualified to " diagnose " anyone. I don't think I have enough information to make even an educated guess as to whether your niece's unpleasant behaviors are due to her having a personality disorder of some kind, or just due to having been raised by her bpd grandma for a good chunk of her formative years, which taught her to think of disordered, dsyfunctional, manipulative behaviors as " normal " (aka " fleas. " ) But if you feel uncomfortable around your niece, if you are observing behaviors in her that feel... unkind, un-empathetic or manipulative to you, if she seems to relish stirring up drama, seems OK with using other people for her own benefit, bullying or even hurting other people and then " delighting " in telling you about it, well, all I can say is that I personally would not feel particularly safe around someone like that, or feel inclined to open myself up to or trust someone who behaved like that. But that's just me; you know her personally and can form a more thorough, realistic, three-dimensional impression of her and her behaviors over time. I only suggest that you maintain a safe emotional distance while doing so, for your own protection. -Annie > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 the 'delight in retelling the stories' is a red flag. she's only 24 so it could be immaturity. i have a cousin who is definitely pd, very manipulative, but doesn't know, I think, that she's doing it, or doesn't know that anyone else knows that is what she does. it's very odd. so i don't know what to think about someone who DOES know, and who brags about it. it definitely would feel unsafe, to me. there is definitely some sociopathy there with the 'seeking buttons to push'. life is way too short for that. one thing I know about all the bpd/npd people in my life is they ALL, ALWAYS carry tales. so you are never just a bystander. while they are recounting their war stories to you, you yourself are becoming part of the narrative that they recount to someone else, as soon as they figure out how they are going to fit you in. no one is safe...that alone is enough to make me want to limit contact. > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Your niece's life sounds like it's been kind of sad. She's been handed off from one person to another quite a bit. Also, if your nada is bpd, I can only imagine what she experienced in her first 6 years, those are personality-forming years. I really couldn't begin to guess if your niece is bpd or not. She's still, to me, a kid who probably needs someone to listen to her, maybe do some talk therapy. I bet she learned early that manipulation was a way to get her way b/c asking for them wasn't happening. Any way you could encourage her to get therapy? As for the red flags you're feeling, you're probably very in tune with that from being around your nada. Maybe you could talk to her the way you would talk to your daughter. > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I can see why this niece brings up a lot of stuff for you. We can't formally analyze or diagnose here, but we can share knowledge and experience that may help you figure this out. First off, B & W thinking is a common thinking process in young adults, & part of the development process. So I would think in anyone under 25 it just shows lack of mature thinking yet. As for the rest of the behaviors, again, thinking what is normal and fun at that age can more just a set of learned and accepted behaviors (FLEAS). Once I matured a little and considered why I did/thought the way I did, I left most of those things behind. Perhaps your niece is full of FLEAS? Perhaps she needs to be encouraged to consider why she does those behaviors? You describe a lot of 'gotcha' type behavior--isn't that often shown in people who felt powerless at one time? Someone who needs to get even? Or, again, some psychopaths do this just for pleasure. For me, two huge tests are 1) whether they take responsibility for their words/actions or whether they don't; and 2) Manipulation is one thing--gaslighting is manipulation in its highest form. Manipulation isn't necessarily bad, for some people it is the only way they learned to get their need met. Usually those folks can change their behavior once they figure out it alienates others. Gaslighting is pure personality disorder. As for the fear: since she grew up with people who frightened and had power over you, some of her mannerisms and behaviors might remind you of them subconsciously. I find interacting with extended family has triggered me this way. Awareness is your friend here--only you will be able to decide if she is triggering you because of who raised her or if there is an unsafe, likely BPD lurking there. > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thanks, ecobabe, you've given me some things to think about here. I'm not seeing gaslighting, but I know I'm fearful of it, and yes, she does use many phrases and ways of speaking that she obviously learned from my nada. (awkward, out-of-the-blue stuff) And for my part, I think it doesn't help that my natural voice can sound very much like nada's, so I'm probably triggering her in some ways, too. (I've gone to great lengths to change my speaking patterns, so that even though the vocal tones are very close to the same, the words and intentions are very far apart. My daughter helped me with this.) I do try to talk with Niece much as I do my own daughter- reflective listening, and questioning, " what do you think about- " but of course I don't have the background of shared experiences with her to draw upon. In the last couple of days I've realized that if she weren't related to me, and I didn't know about her upbringing, I wouldn't bother with her at all. I guess I'm just not ready to give up on her yet. A kind of showing the world what I would have liked to have had, and didn't get: an aunt who was interested in getting to know ME. > > > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 My shrink did tell me that among shrinks a good rule of thumb is that if you feel physically unsafe around them they're probably borderline. Definitely be wary of them in any case. Manipulativeness and splitting are symptoms of NPD and BPD - either way, not good. Personally I'd run a mile if it was me. I've had a gizzardful of these people in my life. > > I'm interested in your thoughts. I've recently begun to interact with my niece more than we ever have. She's 24 and has been on her own for about 5 years now. She was raised by my nada, her g-nada, for her first 6 years (while I was NC; I didn't even know she existed!) Then my brother and her mother split, and she basically went to live with her mother, visiting g-nada once a month or so for the weekend for the next 12-13 years. And she's been LC with my brother for about 3 years, actually NC for the last year or so; NC with her g-nada. > > So ... she seems quite capable of splitting people golden or black, seeks buttons to push, and generally manipulates the h--l out of the people who are in her life full time (her mother, co-workers, roommate). And delights in retelling the stories to me. > > I find myself intrigued with figuring out what is up with her, and at the same time, these red flags keep popping up - basically, I feel unsafe around her. Crazy, since she's 10 years younger than my own daughter... but ?? Thoughts?? Fleas, or bpd?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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