Re: facebook war

[Guest guest]

This has been going on for a long time - same living conditions, same holding

the kids hostage, same caving in by your parents. Your brother is going to

continue to leech off your parents because he can. They won't kick him out

because of the kids (which, granted, is marginally better for the kids). It

doesn't rise to the level required for CPS to step in, because your parents keep

putting bandaids over it - keeping things together just enough to keep social

services out of the picture. Once the kids are old enough to start school, they

will have teachers who may or may not notice there's something wrong.

I hate to sound so hopeless - I've got a passel of in-laws who go around and

around in the same type of dysfunctional, sorry-ass saga. It's chronic. If

they were handed a million dollars, they'd figure out a way to blow it all so

they could continue to create " crises " and mooch off other people. They won't

grow up and join the adult world because they don't have to. There are enough

people around them to " support " them, so the rest of us have to drag them

through life for the sake of the kids. I for one am sick of it.

At this point, you've been trying to solve their problems for what, at least a

couple of years? They're not going to change. Your parents aren't going to

make them change. Social Services is not going to rescue the kids due to a

dirty house. Your sister-in-law is going to continue to rule the roost. If you

stay there, you will continue to live in stress because of conditions you cannot

control.

So the question is, what are YOU going to do? Are you still working toward

getting out? You can't drag these people behind you for the rest of your life.

Sorry to be so blunt - this is the same conversation I keep having with my

spouse, who wants to be paterfamilias to a bunch of loser hillbillies.

>

> I have tried to post about this three or four times and deleted it since I

find myself seguing into details which aren't important.

>

> The short of it is a cousin confronted SIL on facebook after her umpteenth

post trashing my family. She told cousin to " shut the f--- up " and her sister,

my closest extended family member, wrote SIL an email detailing what she'd heard

from me and my father about the sanitation issues, which were severe in their

own house and are bad enough here, and ended it with " what the f--- is wrong

with you people " (-> and then came the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in

air, etc)

>

> At the root of the issue is the parenting/sanitation issues. My waif mother

thinks the best thing to do is not talk about it. Both she and my father think

that reporting anything to social services is a mistake (which I tried to do by

the way and at the time the circumstances weren't 'bad enough' for CPS to step

in according to the person I spoke to). They (parents) make me feel crazy

because they feel that if there was any report, in the event SIL/brother take

the kids and move out, that it would mean that SIL would cut them off and THEY

would not be able to see the kids. Am I crazy to think that the kids' welfare

and getting them in the 'system' if warranted is more important than actually

being in their lives? I would really appreciate some feedback on this. For two

years SIL has lived here and refused to clean, there is no reason to believe

this will change when they leave. To me it seems extremely narcissistic to put

your need to be in a child's life before the need of the children to have a

clean, normal environment. I also believe a wakeup call from officials, in the

event the condition of their house warrants it, is the *only* thing that might

motivate change in SIL and my brother. Their income is more than adequate so he

can hire a maid if necessary, and I have told him this. If I am wrong about this

or not seeing it clearly I would love to hear a different point of view. It's

all speculation at this point since they have yet to leave, but my parents

insistence on their point of view being the right one is making me nuts.

>

> P.S My brother doesn't clean much mainly because from the time he walks in the

door after work SIL clocks out and he has the two boys until he puts them to bed

at night. On the weekends he is in charge of them while she sleeps until 3 or 4

in the afternoon sometimes. Then they dump them on my parents and go out. There

is not a lot of time for him to do anything because if he's in the house, she is

'off duty' as a mother. His every move when he is home is controlled by her and

if he rebels there is hell to pay.

>

[Guest guest]

The issue I was wrestling with was if they leave this time, which they are

threatening to do, isn't it better to just call CPS and be cut out of their

lives (which absolutely WILL happen) rather than look the other way, and still

be in their lives, which is what my parents insist is the right thing. Both of

them are narcissists, though, so it kind of seems like that might be a

narcissist point of view. I don't have children, which is supposed to give you

some magical knowledge about the world that without having them you can't

discern (this I gather from the way people act anyway). It's really not the same

issue, it's a different issue.

I have recently found out that although she told me she was going to retire,

first in november, then in January, then in April, nada really now has no plans

of retiring. this is new knowledge which really changes the whole scenario.

again, not the same problem, a different problem. I'm sorry if I talk about it

too much, but this is really the only place I can talk about it where I feel

people understand what it is like to have this many borderlines/PD people in one

family. I have responded to umpteen posts on this board and given quite a bit of

compassion, encouragement, and understanding to other people, so I don't feel it

is wrong for me to expect to vent here without being judged. If you feel like

you are enabling me by responding, why not just refrain. I am not your husband,

this situation is totally new to me, in the sense of having two fragile children

and being the only non-PD person they are exposed to during the day. They are 2

and 3 years old, so I do have to factor them in, because that is what my

conscience dictates. If I do leave, or seek more employment which is the plan

now that I am just about my wits end, it will be with guilt and anguish because

of what I worry they will be exposed to, or how they will be neglected, when I

am not around. They are real children, their needs are real, their pain is real,

and my emotion over this situation is real. There is no good answer, no easy

answer, and anyone who would find it easy to walk away from children this young

and vulnerable in a situation like this is not someone I want to know. It's

ironic to me because I have seen the question posed here so many times...'why

didn't anyone try to help me?' 'why didn't anyone care?' 'why didn't anyone

intervene?'...and so on and so forth. I feel like I have been raked over the

coals in this situation trying to do exactly those things and getting rebuffed

at every turn, by my parents, by social services, the juvenile police officer I

talked to, etc, etc. I guess we might as well assume if someone tried to

intervene in our childhoods, maybe well meaning people just told them to shut

up, get over it, and move on.

> >

> > I have tried to post about this three or four times and deleted it since I

find myself seguing into details which aren't important.

> >

> > The short of it is a cousin confronted SIL on facebook after her umpteenth

post trashing my family. She told cousin to " shut the f--- up " and her sister,

my closest extended family member, wrote SIL an email detailing what she'd heard

from me and my father about the sanitation issues, which were severe in their

own house and are bad enough here, and ended it with " what the f--- is wrong

with you people " (-> and then came the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in

air, etc)

> >

> > At the root of the issue is the parenting/sanitation issues. My waif mother

thinks the best thing to do is not talk about it. Both she and my father think

that reporting anything to social services is a mistake (which I tried to do by

the way and at the time the circumstances weren't 'bad enough' for CPS to step

in according to the person I spoke to). They (parents) make me feel crazy

because they feel that if there was any report, in the event SIL/brother take

the kids and move out, that it would mean that SIL would cut them off and THEY

would not be able to see the kids. Am I crazy to think that the kids' welfare

and getting them in the 'system' if warranted is more important than actually

being in their lives? I would really appreciate some feedback on this. For two

years SIL has lived here and refused to clean, there is no reason to believe

this will change when they leave. To me it seems extremely narcissistic to put

your need to be in a child's life before the need of the children to have a

clean, normal environment. I also believe a wakeup call from officials, in the

event the condition of their house warrants it, is the *only* thing that might

motivate change in SIL and my brother. Their income is more than adequate so he

can hire a maid if necessary, and I have told him this. If I am wrong about this

or not seeing it clearly I would love to hear a different point of view. It's

all speculation at this point since they have yet to leave, but my parents

insistence on their point of view being the right one is making me nuts.

> >

> > P.S My brother doesn't clean much mainly because from the time he walks in

the door after work SIL clocks out and he has the two boys until he puts them to

bed at night. On the weekends he is in charge of them while she sleeps until 3

or 4 in the afternoon sometimes. Then they dump them on my parents and go out.

There is not a lot of time for him to do anything because if he's in the house,

she is 'off duty' as a mother. His every move when he is home is controlled by

her and if he rebels there is hell to pay.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No doubt it is a very difficult situation and it sounds like there is no way for

you to make it right no matter how big of an effort or sacrifice you could put

forth. Really only you taking custody of their children would accomplish that,

but that can't really happen and even then they could have more children! I'd

say look for what action you can take that will have the greatest and longest

lasting positive impact. Choose that and then know that you've done your part.

Eliza

>

> I have tried to post about this three or four times and deleted it since I

find myself seguing into details which aren't important.

>

> The short of it is a cousin confronted SIL on facebook after her umpteenth

post trashing my family. She told cousin to " shut the f--- up " and her sister,

my closest extended family member, wrote SIL an email detailing what she'd heard

from me and my father about the sanitation issues, which were severe in their

own house and are bad enough here, and ended it with " what the f--- is wrong

with you people " (-> and then came the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in

air, etc)

>

> At the root of the issue is the parenting/sanitation issues. My waif mother

thinks the best thing to do is not talk about it. Both she and my father think

that reporting anything to social services is a mistake (which I tried to do by

the way and at the time the circumstances weren't 'bad enough' for CPS to step

in according to the person I spoke to). They (parents) make me feel crazy

because they feel that if there was any report, in the event SIL/brother take

the kids and move out, that it would mean that SIL would cut them off and THEY

would not be able to see the kids. Am I crazy to think that the kids' welfare

and getting them in the 'system' if warranted is more important than actually

being in their lives? I would really appreciate some feedback on this. For two

years SIL has lived here and refused to clean, there is no reason to believe

this will change when they leave. To me it seems extremely narcissistic to put

your need to be in a child's life before the need of the children to have a

clean, normal environment. I also believe a wakeup call from officials, in the

event the condition of their house warrants it, is the *only* thing that might

motivate change in SIL and my brother. Their income is more than adequate so he

can hire a maid if necessary, and I have told him this. If I am wrong about this

or not seeing it clearly I would love to hear a different point of view. It's

all speculation at this point since they have yet to leave, but my parents

insistence on their point of view being the right one is making me nuts.

>

> P.S My brother doesn't clean much mainly because from the time he walks in the

door after work SIL clocks out and he has the two boys until he puts them to bed

at night. On the weekends he is in charge of them while she sleeps until 3 or 4

in the afternoon sometimes. Then they dump them on my parents and go out. There

is not a lot of time for him to do anything because if he's in the house, she is

'off duty' as a mother. His every move when he is home is controlled by her and

if he rebels there is hell to pay.

>

[Guest guest]

I think its noble of you to keep trying to rescue your nephews; from what you've

described they are being both physically and emotionally neglected by their

mother and are living in filth. Your SIL does not feed, diaper or bathe her

little ones regularly, does not provide one of the children with the therapy he

needs for a developmental delay issue he has, etc. Although she is physically

present, your SIL is an " absentee mom " who does not interact with her children

at all.

But because her parents and her husband are there to enable her, its just

marginally " good enough " care the children are receiving that the psychological

abuse can be deemed " insufficient cause " to require intervention by the CPS

system, which is so overloaded beyond capacity that they can only make room for

the very worst of the worst severe physical abuse, sexual abuse and neglect

cases.

And yet remaining a resident on your parents' property for your nephews' sake is

causing you psychological trauma, yourself. Providing your nephews with

attention and care and some stability is wonderful, but at the same time you've

also said how much living with your parents (in another building on their

property) is causing you chronic psychological distress and injury.

Its a classic no-win situation, seems to me. There is no best choice, no right

choice. All you can do is what feels best to you, choose what you can live

with. If it feels right for you to remain there for your nephews' sake, then,

that is a very noble and self-sacrificing choice, in my opinion.

My only suggestion is to avoid reading or posting anything about your parents

and inlaws via FaceBook or other social networking sites. From what you've

described it appears to be counterproductive; its not making things better and

could potentially make things much worse.

But each of us has to find our own path, its our right as individuals.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I have tried to post about this three or four times and deleted it since I

find myself seguing into details which aren't important.

> > >

> > > The short of it is a cousin confronted SIL on facebook after her umpteenth

post trashing my family. She told cousin to " shut the f--- up " and her sister,

my closest extended family member, wrote SIL an email detailing what she'd heard

from me and my father about the sanitation issues, which were severe in their

own house and are bad enough here, and ended it with " what the f--- is wrong

with you people " (-> and then came the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in

air, etc)

> > >

> > > At the root of the issue is the parenting/sanitation issues. My waif

mother thinks the best thing to do is not talk about it. Both she and my father

think that reporting anything to social services is a mistake (which I tried to

do by the way and at the time the circumstances weren't 'bad enough' for CPS to

step in according to the person I spoke to). They (parents) make me feel crazy

because they feel that if there was any report, in the event SIL/brother take

the kids and move out, that it would mean that SIL would cut them off and THEY

would not be able to see the kids. Am I crazy to think that the kids' welfare

and getting them in the 'system' if warranted is more important than actually

being in their lives? I would really appreciate some feedback on this. For two

years SIL has lived here and refused to clean, there is no reason to believe

this will change when they leave. To me it seems extremely narcissistic to put

your need to be in a child's life before the need of the children to have a

clean, normal environment. I also believe a wakeup call from officials, in the

event the condition of their house warrants it, is the *only* thing that might

motivate change in SIL and my brother. Their income is more than adequate so he

can hire a maid if necessary, and I have told him this. If I am wrong about this

or not seeing it clearly I would love to hear a different point of view. It's

all speculation at this point since they have yet to leave, but my parents

insistence on their point of view being the right one is making me nuts.

> > >

> > > P.S My brother doesn't clean much mainly because from the time he walks in

the door after work SIL clocks out and he has the two boys until he puts them to

bed at night. On the weekends he is in charge of them while she sleeps until 3

or 4 in the afternoon sometimes. Then they dump them on my parents and go out.

There is not a lot of time for him to do anything because if he's in the house,

she is 'off duty' as a mother. His every move when he is home is controlled by

her and if he rebels there is hell to pay.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ilel - I'm not judging YOU. I'm sick to death of the people who are putting

BOTH of us in this position - the relatives who will not grow up and assume

their responsibilities. So yeah, I'm judging THEM. Adults who don't step up

and take care of their kids are worse than useless. Parents who enable their

adult children to become spineless moochers aren't doing anybody any favors,

either.

Like you, I have done my share of venting about relatives here, and yes, it is

just about the only safe place to do it. But as I'm venting, I'm also wondering

when, oh when, will there be an end to it? As long as I stand by and let them

continue to suck my husband (and therefore, me) into their drama, they will

continue to do so - I don't know why. Some expectation that " family " will

always ride to the rescue, or some enjoyment of the attention they get. I want

to be as done with it as I am with Nada and her insanity. I want to be able to

take vacations, spend my meager discretionary income on something besides

somebody else's problems, and look toward a future that has something in it

besides " duty " to a bunch of gormless idiots.

Ilel, I'm 100% behind you in your concern for those little kids. I'm watching

as three normal, fairly bright children in my extended " family " are raised to be

as clueless as their parents and grandparents. It's a shame and an outrage, and

there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it.

Like you, I'm torn between wanting to get involved to mitigate the damage, and

wanting to run screaming down the road to get away from them. And I keep having

to ask, why won't they wake up, stand up, grow up, and do what any normal,

functioning adult does? There's just no good answer. There's no good solution.

You said your parents want to keep the lid on calling CPS because they're afraid

of losing contact with the kids. It seems to me this is just putting a bandaid

on a festering sore. If your brother and SIL leave and take the kids, I think

you should absolutely call CPS and let them know that the children have had a

change in living conditions. Pick up that phone and call, every time you think

there's a valid reason to do so. Help CPS create a thick file of documentation,

so that teachers and pediatricians will have some backup when they start seeing

problems. It sounds like your parents don't listen to you anyway, so why not do

what's right for the kids? Besides, if CPS yanks the kids, guess who's going to

get a call asking if they'll take them in? Your parents. At that point, you

and your parents might have a much better chance of raising the kids without

SIL's interference.

If your mom keeps putting off her retirement, I'm guessing there are two

reasons. 1. She needs the money because she's having to support all extra

people, and 2. Deep down inside, she doesn't want to be stuck in that house all

day, providing free child care and cleaning up SIL's mess. She's raised her

kids, and she's probably resenting the fact that she can't enjoy her home or her

golden years - no matter what she says.

As to " not being a parent " - ummm, it doesn't look like that biological fact has

done your brother or SIL much good. You seem to be much more concerned about

the kids, and much more willing to act on their behalf. Giving birth doesn't

make you an expert. It's the day-to-day work of parenting that makes you a

parent. And by that standard, you've got some bona fides under your belt. (My

husband's niece has about as much parenting expertise as an iguana. It seems

that the act of getting pregnant is the only part she has down pat.)

But although it is laudible to care for the kids and try to help them, I remain

concerned for YOU. I'm afraid you'll get stuck there, under your SIL's control,

and it will halt your progress in your own life. If the kids are 2 and 3, this

could last for another 16 or 17 years. Is that reasonable?

> > >

> > > I have tried to post about this three or four times and deleted it since I

find myself seguing into details which aren't important.

> > >

> > > The short of it is a cousin confronted SIL on facebook after her umpteenth

post trashing my family. She told cousin to " shut the f--- up " and her sister,

my closest extended family member, wrote SIL an email detailing what she'd heard

from me and my father about the sanitation issues, which were severe in their

own house and are bad enough here, and ended it with " what the f--- is wrong

with you people " (-> and then came the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in

air, etc)

> > >

> > > At the root of the issue is the parenting/sanitation issues. My waif

mother thinks the best thing to do is not talk about it. Both she and my father

think that reporting anything to social services is a mistake (which I tried to

do by the way and at the time the circumstances weren't 'bad enough' for CPS to

step in according to the person I spoke to). They (parents) make me feel crazy

because they feel that if there was any report, in the event SIL/brother take

the kids and move out, that it would mean that SIL would cut them off and THEY

would not be able to see the kids. Am I crazy to think that the kids' welfare

and getting them in the 'system' if warranted is more important than actually

being in their lives? I would really appreciate some feedback on this. For two

years SIL has lived here and refused to clean, there is no reason to believe

this will change when they leave. To me it seems extremely narcissistic to put

your need to be in a child's life before the need of the children to have a

clean, normal environment. I also believe a wakeup call from officials, in the

event the condition of their house warrants it, is the *only* thing that might

motivate change in SIL and my brother. Their income is more than adequate so he

can hire a maid if necessary, and I have told him this. If I am wrong about this

or not seeing it clearly I would love to hear a different point of view. It's

all speculation at this point since they have yet to leave, but my parents

insistence on their point of view being the right one is making me nuts.

> > >

> > > P.S My brother doesn't clean much mainly because from the time he walks in

the door after work SIL clocks out and he has the two boys until he puts them to

bed at night. On the weekends he is in charge of them while she sleeps until 3

or 4 in the afternoon sometimes. Then they dump them on my parents and go out.

There is not a lot of time for him to do anything because if he's in the house,

she is 'off duty' as a mother. His every move when he is home is controlled by

her and if he rebels there is hell to pay.

> > >

> >

>