sacrificing a family member

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean, GS, about the look that can come over them. Exactly like

they are weighing the options and deciding to continue full (BPD) speed ahead.

And sometimes my nada would notice my father in hearing range (or another person

if we were out somewhere) and she'd reign it in.

I'd love to be able to eavesdrop just a minute into their heads and see just how

this process works. For King fans, it reminds me of a scene from the

Shining (the book), when Jack realizes the Overlook wants him to become a part

of the hotel, and he knows it isn't the *right* thing to do, but he also decides

he can't/doesn't want to fight it and just gives up his will as husband and

father to be an agent of the hotel. Except I doubt the BPD's give it as much

consideration-lol.

> > >

> > > Here's what I'm confused about:

> > >

> > > I read in Understanding the Borderline mother that the children who are

> > split as " all-bad " often end up developing BPD.

> > > In my family, this is clearly not true. The scapegoat of my family is the

> > most compassionate one amongst us, and his love for animals and deep-seated

> > integrity is truly astounding.

> > > However, in Nada's family, the scapegoat sisters went to Hermit and Waif

> > respectively, with my Nada as the witch lording over them

> > >

> > > I feel like there's something to the development of the scapegoat and BPD

> > relationship that I'm missing.

> > > How is that some all-bad kids escape and others develop BPD? I know it's

> > something that isn't really clear-cut between nature and nurture but I'd be

> > curious what you all think of it, having been subjected to abuse and not

> > developing the disorder?

> > >

> > > One of the theories I've heard is that kids can escape if they're shown

> > unconditional love elsewhere, such as a grandma, teacher, family member or

> > the other parent. I feel like my ability to love stems from the fact that I

> > did have a Dad who would do his best to rescue me as a child, nurtured my

> > ability to think for myself and is supportive; that I could take solace in

> > the love of my grandmother and that I could base my self-worth on the praise

> > I received from teachers and mentors at school.

> > >

> > > Thoughts on this?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<raises hand> How many of us enmeshed kids were raised to believe that since we

were nada's kids, we were also more special than regular kids? My nada's

grandiosity was just plain weird. I think it was her way of explaining to

herself just why she did not fit in with people.

I was raised with this belief and it almost FUBAR'd me. Although since I was so

'special,' societies rules HAD to be followed exactly, because we alone had to

set an example for the ordinary people. Except in nada's case, she made her

rules as she went along--only my dad and I were held to that impossible

yardstick.

The last time I remember accepting her fantasy was back in elementary school. I

suppose I should be thankful to the social piranhas of junior high for knocking

that out of me!

>

> That particular belief/trait/behavior: believing that you are somehow special

(in a superior way) and that rules are for " ordinary people " and do not apply to

you... that's more in the realm of narcissistic pd and antisocial pd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

<raises hand> How many of us enmeshed kids were raised to believe that since we

were nada's kids, we were also more special than regular kids? My nada's

grandiosity was just plain weird. I think it was her way of explaining to

herself just why she did not fit in with people.

I was raised with this belief and it almost FUBAR'd me. Although since I was so

'special,' societies rules HAD to be followed exactly, because we alone had to

set an example for the ordinary people. Except in nada's case, she made her

rules as she went along--only my dad and I were held to that impossible

yardstick.

The last time I remember accepting her fantasy was back in elementary school. I

suppose I should be thankful to the social piranhas of junior high for knocking

that out of me!

>

> That particular belief/trait/behavior: believing that you are somehow special

(in a superior way) and that rules are for " ordinary people " and do not apply to

you... that's more in the realm of narcissistic pd and antisocial pd.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

This does not surprise me. I have been exposed to many books discussing

teams/work groups and how they interact due to my job. An intact, long standing

team will go through some crazy, counterproductive moves to preserve the team's

status quo. Even if this means loss of productivity, denial of reality or

exclusion of formerly welcome members. All to protect the vision of the whole as

opposed to the individual member. Look up " Group Think. " There are many

book/articles on this issue.

>

> I am reading a text book about family therapy. It is amazing. There is a

> section that has me spell bound, the quote as saying:

>

> " I am suspicious of families in that I know that families will sacrifice

> members in order to preserve the whole, or to shield certain members. "

>

> Does anyone else feel like they were sacrificed to protect the nada?

>

> I have always considered NC my choice. But this is the second time I have

> stumbled across the therapist's view that families cast members out to

> protect their way of life or their most dysfunctional member.

>

> I wonder if my FOO turned up the heat on me, knowing at least subconsciously

> that I would respond by leaving?

>

> Maybe it really wasn't my choice. They were faced with the choice to either

> change or lose me as a member. They chose to take the loss.

>

> Or is it healthier for me to continue to look at it as though I just walked

> away?

>

> Either way, I know that my quest for mental health required me to keep going

> forward. They chose to stay behind. Their loss.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree completely. It's so frustrating that Nada can seem so okay some moments

and so nutzo others!

One of the things I am still so angry about is hearing that she talked to my

aunt (who grew up in a crazy family as well) about her very messed up childhood

and how she would do everything in her power to make our childhoods that much

better. Then she subjects us to the same things her nada did?? Urgh.

I could always feel her rage when she would hurt us. From a young age I could

tell she was lashing out simply because she felt mad and we were the ones who

would get it. We knew enough to hide when she was upset, but she would always

find one of us, unless Dad was home.

> > > >

> > > > Here's what I'm confused about:

> > > >

> > > > I read in Understanding the Borderline mother that the children who are

> > > split as " all-bad " often end up developing BPD.

> > > > In my family, this is clearly not true. The scapegoat of my family is

the

> > > most compassionate one amongst us, and his love for animals and

deep-seated

> > > integrity is truly astounding.

> > > > However, in Nada's family, the scapegoat sisters went to Hermit and Waif

> > > respectively, with my Nada as the witch lording over them

> > > >

> > > > I feel like there's something to the development of the scapegoat and

BPD

> > > relationship that I'm missing.

> > > > How is that some all-bad kids escape and others develop BPD? I know it's

> > > something that isn't really clear-cut between nature and nurture but I'd

be

> > > curious what you all think of it, having been subjected to abuse and not

> > > developing the disorder?

> > > >

> > > > One of the theories I've heard is that kids can escape if they're shown

> > > unconditional love elsewhere, such as a grandma, teacher, family member or

> > > the other parent. I feel like my ability to love stems from the fact that

I

> > > did have a Dad who would do his best to rescue me as a child, nurtured my

> > > ability to think for myself and is supportive; that I could take solace in

> > > the love of my grandmother and that I could base my self-worth on the

praise

> > > I received from teachers and mentors at school.

> > > >

> > > > Thoughts on this?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Oh God yes, . . . THE LOOK . . . the muscles working in her face as she

weighs her options, ruminating, selecting her words, her weapons, working

the possibilities over and over, her eyes narrowing and widening by turns,

lips pursing slightly, as if sucking on a hard candy, checking the time,

wiping her hands, and then, . . . .

I could never make it to the door in time.

The worst of her attacks were never just the physical, although those

have left permanent reminders, but the the things that would come out of her

mouth, ugly, horrible words, convoluted confessions of " Truths " meant to

shred and destroy emotionally and spiritually.

Her favorite tactic was to tell me that my father, favorite teacher,

etc. had confided to her that something was " wrong " with me, or had betrayed

my confidence.

Or, Weird beyond weird, that she " knew " that I harbored some seditious

thought or desire somewhere within my heart or brain, and she was going to

make me tell the truth, beat the truth out of me, which, *really* made me

crazy, since the only way to make her stop hurting me, was to make up a

story and lie.

* The look* . . . of triumph on her face when I would crumble and cry was

positively reptilian. *The Look* . . . it still gives me nightmares, and

yes, I agree,their / her ability to seem positively " normal " to others - if

her truth finding mission was interrupted by the phone ringing, or someone

at the door - was a whole 'nuther level of scary.

She would sometimes whisper devastating things to me in public, or just as

my father was coming home, then act as if she was the very epitome of the

compassionate mother when I melted down, pulling me close and comforting me,

while digging her nails into the backs of my arms, ***just in case* I

thought about pulling away, smiling at anyone looking on, explaining that I

was such a " sensitive child. "

People thought she was *wonderful**. *If I hadda nickle for every time

someone told me how lucky I was, how *much *my mother loved me, . . . I

coulda paid for the years and years and years of therapy this has, and is,

gonna take to work through.

My teachers thought she was fabulous, the neighbors thought she was

marvelous, they never caught on. I, on the other hand was perceived to be

spoiled, sulky, hypersensitive, hyper-imaginative and overindulged.

I was controlled by *The Look*, forced to collude against myself, by, *The

Look*, bullied into giving up all those whom I trusted and loved, by, *The

Look* . . .

People often commented on how close we were, how fortunate, how

wonderful. She could pull " The Mom Show, " or " The Wife Show, " etc., out of

her purse the way other (non BPD) women whip out a Kleenex.

She, too, could regale others with brave tales of her difficult

childhood, which in all fairness was horrendous, however, the stories were

designed and told for effect, and with manipulative intent.

She would also lie to avenge some perceived slight, and one of her

favorite tactics was to destroy people with confabulated " Truths " designed

with vengeance and told strictly for spite, yet done so artfully, the

receiver usually felt fortunate to know someone who cared enough about them

to tell " the Gods honest truth. " Again, *The Look, victorious, spiteful,

reptilian. *

Oh Well. Sunspot

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 2:11 AM, clefairy_looking_for_moonstone <

clefairy_looking_for_moonstone@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> I agree completely. It's so frustrating that Nada can seem so okay some

> moments and so nutzo others!

> One of the things I am still so angry about is hearing that she talked to

> my aunt (who grew up in a crazy family as well) about her very messed up

> childhood and how she would do everything in her power to make our

> childhoods that much better. Then she subjects us to the same things her

> nada did?? Urgh.

> I could always feel her rage when she would hurt us. From a young age I

> could tell she was lashing out simply because she felt mad and we were the

> ones who would get it. We knew enough to hide when she was upset, but she

> would always find one of us, unless Dad was home.

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Here's what I'm confused about:

> > > > >

> > > > > I read in Understanding the Borderline mother that the children who

> are

> > > > split as " all-bad " often end up developing BPD.

> > > > > In my family, this is clearly not true. The scapegoat of my family

> is the

> > > > most compassionate one amongst us, and his love for animals and

> deep-seated

> > > > integrity is truly astounding.

> > > > > However, in Nada's family, the scapegoat sisters went to Hermit and

> Waif

> > > > respectively, with my Nada as the witch lording over them

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like there's something to the development of the scapegoat

> and BPD

> > > > relationship that I'm missing.

> > > > > How is that some all-bad kids escape and others develop BPD? I know

> it's

> > > > something that isn't really clear-cut between nature and nurture but

> I'd be

> > > > curious what you all think of it, having been subjected to abuse and

> not

> > > > developing the disorder?

> > > > >

> > > > > One of the theories I've heard is that kids can escape if they're

> shown

> > > > unconditional love elsewhere, such as a grandma, teacher, family

> member or

> > > > the other parent. I feel like my ability to love stems from the fact

> that I

> > > > did have a Dad who would do his best to rescue me as a child,

> nurtured my

> > > > ability to think for myself and is supportive; that I could take

> solace in

> > > > the love of my grandmother and that I could base my self-worth on the

> praise

> > > > I received from teachers and mentors at school.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thoughts on this?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

(((((Sunspot)))))

My own opinion is that your nada must have been more of a high-functioning

malignant narcissistic pd person, to have been able to pull off that kind of

behavior with you so covertly, and yet present such a charming, appealing facade

in public.

We kids of mothers with that particular form of mental illness, narcissistic pd,

and the attributes of personal appeal, intelligence, physical attractiveness and

charm, are, very tragically, pretty much doomed to whatever covert abuse they

care to inflict on us throughout our formative years.

Only another adult who might happen to witness our mistreatment when nada was

unaware she was being observed could possibly have intervened or rescued us.

And it would have to be another adult who was in no way, shape or form under

nada's influence. I'm thinking of all the housekeepers, nannies, personal

assistants, etc., who witnessed Crawford's abuse from " Mommy Dearest "

during her growing-up years but who never called Child Protective Services; they

didn't want to lose their jobs. Dishrag dads often don't see the full extent of

the abusive treatment their children receive, and yet being enmeshed,

codependent dishrags they just want to keep the wife happy and not do anything

to set her off (like telling the bpd wife that its not OK to terrorize her

preschooler by screaming at the child while slapping the child around.)

I think my nada had/has as many narcissistic pd traits as bpd traits, and was

similarly very high-functioning as well as intelligent, charming, and personally

attractive. I *saw* her switch off her rage at me like flipping off a light,

when it dawned on her that dad would be walking through the door at any moment.

She never unleashed her irritation or rage at Sister or me in public, and she

never let herself go completely bats**t ballistic and physically assault us when

dad was home: she had the ability to control her acting-out behaviors *when she

needed to.*

In my opinion, such individuals are way, way too disordered to be raising

children, and yet they are able to keep their abuse so covert there's virtually

no chance of them being discovered.

In that way: in the sheer calculated, carefully managed *covertness* of the

emotional and physical abuse they inflict on their children, I think the

behavior is very much like incest.

They *know* its wrong, so they carefully hide it.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here's what I'm confused about:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I read in Understanding the Borderline mother that the children who

> > are

> > > > > split as " all-bad " often end up developing BPD.

> > > > > > In my family, this is clearly not true. The scapegoat of my family

> > is the

> > > > > most compassionate one amongst us, and his love for animals and

> > deep-seated

> > > > > integrity is truly astounding.

> > > > > > However, in Nada's family, the scapegoat sisters went to Hermit and

> > Waif

> > > > > respectively, with my Nada as the witch lording over them

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like there's something to the development of the scapegoat

> > and BPD

> > > > > relationship that I'm missing.

> > > > > > How is that some all-bad kids escape and others develop BPD? I know

> > it's

> > > > > something that isn't really clear-cut between nature and nurture but

> > I'd be

> > > > > curious what you all think of it, having been subjected to abuse and

> > not

> > > > > developing the disorder?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > One of the theories I've heard is that kids can escape if they're

> > shown

> > > > > unconditional love elsewhere, such as a grandma, teacher, family

> > member or

> > > > > the other parent. I feel like my ability to love stems from the fact

> > that I

> > > > > did have a Dad who would do his best to rescue me as a child,

> > nurtured my

> > > > > ability to think for myself and is supportive; that I could take

> > solace in

> > > > > the love of my grandmother and that I could base my self-worth on the

> > praise

> > > > > I received from teachers and mentors at school.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thoughts on this?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the hugs and wisdom, Annie,

I think you hit it on the nose, it is, in its covertness, very much

like incest. (I'm sure you're also right about NPD, as well.)

I think issues of collusion against the self, in both physical, and,

emotional incest, as well as the collusion against the self, experienced by

the child in these horrendous kinds of mind f**********, are forms of

spiritual / soul slaughter. NPD/BPDs *intend* their behavior to be cruel

and destructive, if not outright ruinous. They are afraid of discovery, and

still choose to act out.

So many KOs are coerced into protecting their abusers,( physical abusers

as well as emotional abusers,) and I include, in the definition of abuser,

those who abuse by omission, as well as those who abuse by commission.

The issues are made further complex, in that the PD parent is sometimes

affectionate and fun, and I wonder if what we, as children may interpret as

loving, is in fact merely the momentary lapse of chaos, and cruelty.

I think we also get caught up in a " Stockholm Syndrome " like situation

with the PD. We may not identify *with* them in ways that cause us to *

become* a PD ourselves, but , I think it was Jules who pointed out (please

forgive me if I have mis-attributed this,) that by protecting their Nada,

they also protected themself.

Then, after all this, they just may get us from the grave, as

Soveritforsure has recently experienced! What an untenable conundrum - it is

no wonder we are in anguish!

Thank heavens we have Oz, and each other. I am so grateful for this

board, and the wealth of compassion, humor, and wisdom, to be found herein!

Sunspot

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

> **

>

>

> (((((Sunspot)))))

>

> My own opinion is that your nada must have been more of a high-functioning

> malignant narcissistic pd person, to have been able to pull off that kind of

> behavior with you so covertly, and yet present such a charming, appealing

> facade in public.

>

> We kids of mothers with that particular form of mental illness,

> narcissistic pd, and the attributes of personal appeal, intelligence,

> physical attractiveness and charm, are, very tragically, pretty much doomed

> to whatever covert abuse they care to inflict on us throughout our formative

> years.

>

> Only another adult who might happen to witness our mistreatment when Nada

> was unaware she was being observed could possibly have intervened or rescued

> us. And it would have to be another adult who was in no way, shape or form

> under Nada's influence. I'm thinking of all the housekeepers, nannies,

> personal assistants, etc., who witnessed Crawford's abuse from

> " Mommy Dearest " during her growing-up years but who never called Child

> Protective Services; they didn't want to lose their jobs. Dishrag dads often

> don't see the full extent of the abusive treatment their children receive,

> and yet being enmeshed, codependent dishrags they just want to keep the wife

> happy and not do anything to set her off (like telling the bpd wife that its

> not OK to terrorize her preschooler by screaming at the child while slapping

> the child around.)

>

> I think my nada had/has as many narcissistic pd traits as bpd traits, and

> was similarly very high-functioning as well as intelligent, charming, and

> personally attractive. I *saw* her switch off her rage at me like flipping

> off a light, when it dawned on her that dad would be walking through the

> door at any moment. She never unleashed her irritation or rage at Sister or

> me in public, and she never let herself go completely bats**t ballistic and

> physically assault us when dad was home: she had the ability to control her

> acting-out behaviors *when she needed to.*

>

> In my opinion, such individuals are way, way too disordered to be raising

> children, and yet they are able to keep their abuse so covert there's

> virtually no chance of them being discovered.

>

> In that way: in the sheer calculated, carefully managed *covertness* of the

> emotional and physical abuse they inflict on their children, I think the

> behavior is very much like incest.

>

> They *know* its wrong, so they carefully hide it.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here's what I'm confused about:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I read in Understanding the Borderline mother that the children

> who

> > > are

> > > > > > split as " all-bad " often end up developing BPD.

> > > > > > > In my family, this is clearly not true. The scapegoat of my

> family

> > > is the

> > > > > > most compassionate one amongst us, and his love for animals and

> > > deep-seated

> > > > > > integrity is truly astounding.

> > > > > > > However, in Nada's family, the scapegoat sisters went to Hermit

> and

> > > Waif

> > > > > > respectively, with my Nada as the witch lording over them

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I feel like there's something to the development of the

> scapegoat

> > > and BPD

> > > > > > relationship that I'm missing.

> > > > > > > How is that some all-bad kids escape and others develop BPD? I

> know

> > > it's

> > > > > > something that isn't really clear-cut between nature and nurture

> but

> > > I'd be

> > > > > > curious what you all think of it, having been subjected to abuse

> and

> > > not

> > > > > > developing the disorder?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One of the theories I've heard is that kids can escape if

> they're

> > > shown

> > > > > > unconditional love elsewhere, such as a grandma, teacher, family

> > > member or

> > > > > > the other parent. I feel like my ability to love stems from the

> fact

> > > that I

> > > > > > did have a Dad who would do his best to rescue me as a child,

> > > nurtured my

> > > > > > ability to think for myself and is supportive; that I could take

> > > solace in

> > > > > > the love of my grandmother and that I could base my self-worth on

> the

> > > praise

> > > > > > I received from teachers and mentors at school.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thoughts on this?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Sunspot and Annie,

I rarely had to live the way you two describe--my nada was only that controlling

when she was in a complete rage. Luckily for me, people can only be in high rage

for a short time without giving away they are nuts--so my nada would reign it

in. Most of the time it was just avoid her, avoid being a target.

I also think my nada did not have the social IQ necessary to pull off the

dramatic behaviors done to Sunspot (I'm sorry hun, those poisonous hugs sound

terrible!).

Funny when I was young I thought my mother was very smart and had infinite

power. Then years later that I realized she had very dumb reactions to everyday

occurrences and was almost socially inept. She's gotten really good at covering

her butt to the outside, and getting HER message out before her enemy can. But

she's still socially inept.

[Guest guest]

Wow Sunspot *HUGS* Your nada sounds similar to mine. Yeah, that LOOK was

awful, wasn't it? It's a look I'll never forget, even thinking of it still

gives me shivers. Though, when I tried to put some of my experiences into

drawings, I couldn't get THE LOOK just right. I had to settle for close.

Maybe something inside myself is blocking me from getting it 100%. Who

knows. But yeah, I could be elderly with Alzheimer's disease and I don't

think I'd EVER forget that look.

I also hope I never get Alzheimer's. Not that anyone ever wants to, but

knowing how people regress when they have it, good grief. I'd be one

terrified old woman who thought she was a child. Yikes. I'd feel sorry for

my care givers. =[

I also fully understand about nada's version of the " truth " . Oh how she'd

tell me I was such a liar, even when I was telling the whole truth & nothing

but the truth! Then she'd tell me the idea she concocted in hear head of

what the truth really was, and I'd actually have to lie to save face... to

some degree. It's so awful. I'm so sorry you went through it too.

I was also accused of being overly sensitive, mopey, etc. But, though I do

consider my nada to be high functioning BPD (and possibly NPD as well), her

act wasn't as good as your nada's. My teachers, friends' parents, etc, saw

through her. They'd tell me that they thought she was " cold " " distant " ,

etc. They'd ask me repeatedly if everything was ok. I'd say, " Yeah " . I

didn't know it wasn't... sounds stupid, but grow up with it... well, I'm

sure most folks here can understand where I'm going with that thought.

Anyway, my whole rambly point is - you are so NOT alone. And there is some

weird therapeutic benefit to knowing that other people can relate to what we

went through, you know.

But yeah, that look... even though I feel I have healed tremendously, I

think that look will haunt/stalk me to my grave.

Mia

> Oh God yes, . . . THE LOOK . . . the muscles working in her face as she

> weighs her options, ruminating, selecting her words, her weapons, working

> the possibilities over and over, her eyes narrowing and widening by turns,

> lips pursing slightly, as if sucking on a hard candy, checking the time,

> wiping her hands, and then, . . . .

>

[Guest guest]

Sunspot, I can relate completely. The fear, helplessness and confusion is

overwhelming when Nada is such an excellent social engineer who can elude

detection that well.

I remember the frustration of all my friends wishing they lived with my family,

and my teachers being so impressed by her.

I can relate completely to the hugs with the nails digging in your back or arms,

or pinching the skin behind your arms, shoulders or neck. There was a 5 year

period where my grandmother was the only one I would let touch me. Of course I

was branded as being autistic (I'm not at all, but it was believable as it runs

in Dad's family) or over emotional or dramatic and doing it for attention. She

could turn on the charm immediately and had no trouble winning over a crowd. She

had a dazzling public persona, especially in college, which was when my Dad

noticed her.

My nada last year managed to convince all of her cronies that my beloved

youngest brother, who is the " lost child " , quiet and sweet was " violent and

vindictive " . These women who had interacted with him on a daily basis from

marching band were convinced that he was hurting my mother rather than the other

way around!

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. But I agree, Thank God for Oz.

>

> Sunspot and Annie,

>

> I rarely had to live the way you two describe--my nada was only that

controlling when she was in a complete rage. Luckily for me, people can only be

in high rage for a short time without giving away they are nuts--so my nada

would reign it in. Most of the time it was just avoid her, avoid being a target.

>

> I also think my nada did not have the social IQ necessary to pull off the

dramatic behaviors done to Sunspot (I'm sorry hun, those poisonous hugs sound

terrible!).

>

> Funny when I was young I thought my mother was very smart and had infinite

power. Then years later that I realized she had very dumb reactions to everyday

occurrences and was almost socially inept. She's gotten really good at covering

her butt to the outside, and getting HER message out before her enemy can. But

she's still socially inept.

>