therapist back door peddling

September 28, 2011

Dear all,

I thought i would throw this out there to see your comments.

My Mom was diagnosed with BPD about a year and a half ago by a psychiatrist. He

told me and my brother she has BPD and melancholic depression.

My brother and I are now NC with Mom since about 4 months. She rang the

psychiatrist up the other day and told him off saying he ruined her relationship

with her kids. the psychiatrist then called my brother up and asked him to " do

something " to help him, as my mother was very angry at him, and then he

proceeded to deny having told me and my brother that Mom has BPD. He said he

only told my brother she has " some " BPD " traits " . Now, mind you, my brother and

I attended one session together with this psychiatrist and it was at this

session that we both distinctly remember the psychiatrist saying that she had

BPD and melancholic depression.

Now my Mom has switched to someone else, also recommended by this psychiatrist a

" family counselor " of sorts. My brother saw this person yesterday at her home (I

thought it strange she doesn't have an office), she had a candle on, and he told

her what the psychiatrist said to him about denying he ever said BPD. This

person ( " family counselor " ) told him that the psychiatrist could get sued by us

for saying things like that.

This family counselor wants to see me, and I'm hesitant about getting involved

at all.

What would you do? For a psychiatrist to go into complete denial and say he

didn't say something, when he most definitely did, what would you do? Any

thoughts on your reactions to this? Has this happened to any of you?

N

> Hi Fiona,

>

> I guess the big issue here for me would be how my daughter was feeling about

herself, and her self esteem. I agree with you, her reaction to this other girl,

the FRIEND, is the most concern. I have a daughter who is now in her

mid-twenties, and middle school ( just around the corner for your girl) was

brutal. I am thinking my best advice to you is to get your daughter thinking

about the big picture and involved in a couple things she really enjoys. a team

or individual sport, clubs, hobbies, sewing, horse back riding, skiing, dance,

gymnastics, playing an instrument, etc. anything that can be hers that she can

master and excel at. It will serve her self esteem well, in general and when she

is dealing with pips such as this FRIEND. Pretty soon transitioning into middle

school is going to shake all the friendships up and having something that makes

her feel herself and confident about would be a big help. Also- it will bring

new people into her life.

>

> Another thought is that giving this friendship some space would not be a bad

idea, and encouraging time on other friendships to give your daughter some

perspective and choice. What a bonus that the other mom is so realistic and a

real friend.

>

> Your daughter is fortunate to have a mom who notices and cares so much.

>

> >

> > My younger daughter (I'll call her Daughter) is 7. She has been dealing

recently with a situation at school with her best friend. Let's call her Friend.

> >

> > Friend is not behaving like a friend at all and, in fact, her behaviors, the

way Daughter describes them, reminded me of some bpd behaviors and it alarmed

me. (Please understand: I know this is just a kid and I cannot diagnose her.)

> >

> > Last night, Daughter said she was calling Friend. That''s nothing unusual.

Friend wasn't home. Daughter said, " yeah, I just wanted to call her to make sure

we're still friends. " That's when her dad and I asked her what she meant by

that and it all came out, things that Friend has been doing that she done

before, mildly, but that now have escalated.

> >

> > Friend doesn't treat any one else in their class this way. Btw, Friend's mom

and I are friends; we talked last night after she talked to Friend about this

and Friend admitted to the following behaviors:

> >

> > * gives Daughter random dirty looks (Daughter interprets them as " Friend's

mad at me, I did something and need to make her happy again " )

> >

> > * cuts in front of Daughter in the morning class line (kind of to put

herself above Daughter); Daughter lets her. Last night, Daughter said, " it

doesn't really bother me. " I said, " sweetie, if it didn't bother you, you

wouldn't have mentioned it 3 times tonight. Of course it bothers you, and it

should. She is not better than you, nor you than her. You were just there first

and don't need to give your spot up to anyone. "

> >

> > * gets upset if Daughter is eating lunch with other girls....but freely eats

with other girls whenever SHE wants

> >

> > * gets upset/cries easily if Daughter doesn't give her her full attention

right away (e.g., Daughter said she was working on spelling, and Friend started

talking to her. Daughter was trying to finish what she was doing, but it wasn't

fast enough for Friend. Friend started crying about it, making Daughter seem to

others that she had done something bad to her.

> >

> > What concerns me greatly is Daughter's response to all this. She will ask

Friend constantly, " are we still friends? " Friend will either bestow her favor

on her or if she's in a bad mood, will say " No, you didn't sit with me today... "

> >

> > Just as Daughter is the only person Friend does this diva behavior with,

conversely, Friend is the only person Daughter reacts this way to! (then again,

no one else has behaved this way with her)

> >

> > They have known each other from kindergarten and Friend has always used the

" you're not my friend anymore " card to get Daughter to do what she wants. I told

Daughter, " you're the only one she does this with, b/c it works. Saying " no " is

ok. "

> >

> > Again, her mom and I had a long talk last night (she's really great; no

defensiveness or " not my baby " stuff; we're really trying to work together to

figure this out and are meeting this week with the girls to get this all aired

out). She suggested her daughter is like this with mine because she feels the

most comfortable with her. I told her, that could be, but it's affecting my

kid's self esteem.

> >

> > Any suggestions on what I could say directly to Friend when we all meet? I

certainly don't want to bully her back, but I do want to make it clear to HER,

not her mom, that I'm going over mom's head if I hear anymore about her behavior

and then she'll have to deal with the teacher and principal.

> >

> > Thanks for any feedback!

> >

> > Fiona

> >

September 29, 2011

N,

I wouldn't be willing to have anything to do with this " family

counselor " , at least not without some really good reason being

given doing so. Has she told you why she wants to see you? Would

your nada be there too or just you? Does your brother think he

accomplished anything useful by meeting with her? It is

possible that she's entirely legitimate even if the person who

recommended her isn't, but family couseling is not going to fix

BPD, so I'd want a really clear explanation of what the expected

goals are before getting involved. Also, if you want to stay NC,

I don't see getting involved as being to your benefit. If your

goal is to end the NC and have more of a relationship with her,

then it might be helpful to get involved with this counselor,

depending on what she's trying to do.

The psychiatrist sounds like he's trying to maintain his

relationship with her by making you and your brother into the

bad guys. I don't think that says anything good about him. It is

possible that he's changed his mind about her diagnosis since

you talked to him but if so I have a hard time seeing how he

could forget having told you the original diagnosis.

I've hit the point where I have a really low tolerance of

nada-related nonsense and drama. I'm sure that colors the way I

view questions like this. This looks like a situation almost

guaranteed to result in drama at some point unless this

counselor has a lot of experience with treating people with BPD,

and if the psychiatrist is denying that diagnosis now, it seems

unlikely that he sent her to someone who can deal with it.

At 01:51 AM 09/29/2011 N wrote:

>Dear all,

>

>I thought i would throw this out there to see your comments.

>

>My Mom was diagnosed with BPD about a year and a half ago by a

>psychiatrist. He told me and my brother she has BPD and

>melancholic depression.

>

>My brother and I are now NC with Mom since about 4 months. She

>rang the psychiatrist up the other day and told him off saying

>he ruined her relationship with her kids. the psychiatrist

>then called my brother up and asked him to " do something " to

>help him, as my mother was very angry at him, and then he

>proceeded to deny having told me and my brother that Mom has

>BPD. He said he only told my brother she has " some " BPD

> " traits " . Now, mind you, my brother and I attended one session

>together with this psychiatrist and it was at this session that

>we both distinctly remember the psychiatrist saying that she

>had BPD and melancholic depression.

>

>Now my Mom has switched to someone else, also recommended by

>this psychiatrist a " family counselor " of sorts. My brother saw

>this person yesterday at her home (I thought it strange she

>doesn't have an office), she had a candle on, and he told her

>what the psychiatrist said to him about denying he ever said

>BPD. This person ( " family counselor " ) told him that the

>psychiatrist could get sued by us for saying things like that.

>

>This family counselor wants to see me, and I'm hesitant about

>getting involved at all.

>

>What would you do? For a psychiatrist to go into complete

>denial and say he didn't say something, when he most definitely

>did, what would you do? Any thoughts on your reactions to this?

>Has this happened to any of you?

>

>N

--

Katrina

September 29, 2011

Dear Katrina,

You speak a lot of sense. I am taking your opinion. I had the feeling that

something was " up " , trying to drag me into Non NC all over again. And I think

I'm not up for it.

My cousin just called to say that my Mom sent him to tell me to meet yet

" another counselor " ! Can you believe that? Seems that my Mom is seeing several

at the same time! Seems that she's picking and choosing to see which one is

going to suit her and agree with her against me and my brother. I think it's all

a set up, as you said.

Thanks ever so much for your detailed opinion.

N

> N,

>

> I wouldn't be willing to have anything to do with this " family

> counselor " , at least not without some really good reason being

> given doing so. Has she told you why she wants to see you? Would

> your nada be there too or just you? Does your brother think he

> accomplished anything useful by meeting with her? It is

> possible that she's entirely legitimate even if the person who

> recommended her isn't, but family couseling is not going to fix

> BPD, so I'd want a really clear explanation of what the expected

> goals are before getting involved. Also, if you want to stay NC,

> I don't see getting involved as being to your benefit. If your

> goal is to end the NC and have more of a relationship with her,

> then it might be helpful to get involved with this counselor,

> depending on what she's trying to do.

>

> The psychiatrist sounds like he's trying to maintain his

> relationship with her by making you and your brother into the

> bad guys. I don't think that says anything good about him. It is

> possible that he's changed his mind about her diagnosis since

> you talked to him but if so I have a hard time seeing how he

> could forget having told you the original diagnosis.

>

> I've hit the point where I have a really low tolerance of

> nada-related nonsense and drama. I'm sure that colors the way I

> view questions like this. This looks like a situation almost

> guaranteed to result in drama at some point unless this

> counselor has a lot of experience with treating people with BPD,

> and if the psychiatrist is denying that diagnosis now, it seems

> unlikely that he sent her to someone who can deal with it.

>

> At 01:51 AM 09/29/2011 N wrote:

> >Dear all,

> >

> >I thought i would throw this out there to see your comments.

> >

> >My Mom was diagnosed with BPD about a year and a half ago by a

> >psychiatrist. He told me and my brother she has BPD and

> >melancholic depression.

> >

> >My brother and I are now NC with Mom since about 4 months. She

> >rang the psychiatrist up the other day and told him off saying

> >he ruined her relationship with her kids. the psychiatrist

> >then called my brother up and asked him to " do something " to

> >help him, as my mother was very angry at him, and then he

> >proceeded to deny having told me and my brother that Mom has

> >BPD. He said he only told my brother she has " some " BPD

> > " traits " . Now, mind you, my brother and I attended one session

> >together with this psychiatrist and it was at this session that

> >we both distinctly remember the psychiatrist saying that she

> >had BPD and melancholic depression.

> >

> >Now my Mom has switched to someone else, also recommended by

> >this psychiatrist a " family counselor " of sorts. My brother saw

> >this person yesterday at her home (I thought it strange she

> >doesn't have an office), she had a candle on, and he told her

> >what the psychiatrist said to him about denying he ever said

> >BPD. This person ( " family counselor " ) told him that the

> >psychiatrist could get sued by us for saying things like that.

> >

> >This family counselor wants to see me, and I'm hesitant about

> >getting involved at all.

> >

> >What would you do? For a psychiatrist to go into complete

> >denial and say he didn't say something, when he most definitely

> >did, what would you do? Any thoughts on your reactions to this?

> >Has this happened to any of you?

> >

> >N

>

> --

> Katrina

>

September 29, 2011

Yup, I think Katrina nailed it. I just wanted to add - " This counselor wants

to see me " sounds a lot like " I've been called to the principals office. "

The counselor is not paying you, and you do not owe him any duty at all. If he

wants to talk to you he can call you up and have a phone conversation to ask

questions or get your input. He doesn't get to dictate that you drop everything

and go to his office. He's not the boss of you!

It does sound like a Flying Monkey setup.