Can someone educate me on nystatin

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has

been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least

since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it

because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has

been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate

since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has

just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was

before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three

weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and

took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I

want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if

it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite

these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just

loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a

known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something

bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me

with this?

Thanks

is

[Guest guest]

its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

From: alexis_d3378

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

Nystastin is strep-based? Sent from my iPhone

its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

From: alexis_d3378

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

yes

From: Ruth Setlak

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:55 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Nystastin is strep-based? Sent from my iPhone

its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

From: alexis_d3378

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

Can you pls give a little more information? ThanksSent from my iPhone

yes

From: Ruth Setlak

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:55 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Nystastin is strep-based? Sent from my iPhone

its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

From: alexis_d3378

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

Nystatin originates from a streptomycete called Streptomyces noursei which is a

fungus by definition. To my knowledge it is not related to streptococcus which

is a bacteria and has been known to be associated with PANDAS. I am not a

microbiologist but I don't think it can cause cross sensitivity and produce anti

strep antibodies. I will do some more digging on the issue but so far I havn't

found a reliable source stating that streptomyces can cause issues with PANDAS.

I am still worried about how nystatin can adversely affect the gut. Has anyone

used it and experienced excessive thirst and urination and tantrums while using

it?

Thanks

is

> >

> >>

> >> its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

> >>

> >>

> >> From: alexis_d3378

> >> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> >> To: mb12valtrex

> >> Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi everyone,

> >> I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son

has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at

least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have

removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom

that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to

urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his

thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert

than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the

last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started

vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later

point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am

concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous

apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that

he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water)

is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating

something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone

please help me with this?

> >> Thanks

> >> is

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this. Wish I knew the answer to your question. :(Sent from my iPhone

Nystatin originates from a streptomycete called Streptomyces noursei which is a fungus by definition. To my knowledge it is not related to streptococcus which is a bacteria and has been known to be associated with PANDAS. I am not a microbiologist but I don't think it can cause cross sensitivity and produce anti strep antibodies. I will do some more digging on the issue but so far I havn't found a reliable source stating that streptomyces can cause issues with PANDAS. I am still worried about how nystatin can adversely affect the gut. Has anyone used it and experienced excessive thirst and urination and tantrums while using it?

Thanks

is

> >

> >>

> >> its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

> >>

> >>

> >> From: alexis_d3378

> >> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> >> To: mb12valtrex

> >> Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi everyone,

> >> I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

> >> Thanks

> >> is

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi is,We've been using Nystatin off and on these past few months but i havent noticed any of those symptoms. I did notice alot of excessive urination for both of my kids with the Amphetericin B antifungal (they didnt do well on this one).Please keep us updated if you find out bc this is one of the few antifungals (as well as Sporonox) that my kids haved tolerate (most of the herbals and naturals they dont do well on either). I know the local DAN drs in my area put kids on Nystatin for many months and say it is very safe (I hope they are right)! Would love to hear other input on this.Hope he feels better

soon!!megan To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Nystatin originates from a streptomycete called Streptomyces noursei which is a fungus by definition. To my knowledge it is not related to streptococcus which is a bacteria and has been known to be associated with PANDAS. I am not a microbiologist but I don't think it can cause cross sensitivity and produce anti strep antibodies. I will do some more digging on the issue but so far I havn't found a reliable source stating that streptomyces can cause issues with PANDAS. I am still worried about how nystatin can adversely affect the gut. Has anyone used it and experienced excessive thirst and urination and tantrums while using it?

Thanks

is

> >

> >>

> >> its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

> >>

> >>

> >> From: alexis_d3378

> >> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> >> To: mb12valtrex

> >> Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

> >>

> >>

> >> Hi everyone,

> >> I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days

but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

> >> Thanks

> >> is

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi is,Just googled excessive thirst, urination and came up with an autism-mercury post as follows: Excessive thirst and frequent urination are a sign of an Omega 6 EFA> deficiency and also a sign of diabetes. The O6 EFA deficiency is> quite> common and can be corrected by taking 450

to 1350 mg of Evening> Primrose Oil> daily. Diabetes can be confirmed by testing. About $5 to $10 for EP> Oil will> show if an O6 EFA deficiency exists. To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,

I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days,

he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

Thanks

is

[Guest guest]

Hi is,Feel free to contact me offline and to try to set up a time to talk if you want. We had alot of problems this spring/summer (and fall now that I think about it) with the gut and antifungals/antibs/herbs etc. so I know how it feels to see them getting a little better in some areas but worse in others.All the best, To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,

I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days,

he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

Thanks

is

[Guest guest]

Thanks . My son is on omega 3s but not on any omega 6. I read somewhere

that based on my son's allergy profile, he should be getting 3s in the beginning

and then move onto the others. But I will recheck. I would love to learn more

from your experience this summer. I'll email you.

is

>

> Hi is,

>

> Feel free to contact me offline and to try to set up a time to talk if you

want. Â We had alot of problems this spring/summer (and fall now that I think

about it) with the gut and antifungals/antibs/herbs etc. so I know how it feels

to see them getting a little better in some areas but worse in others.

>

> All the best,

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: mb12valtrex

> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

>

>

> Â

> Hi everyone,

> I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has

been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least

since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it

because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has

been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate

since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has

just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was

before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three

weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and

took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I

want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if

it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite

these days but some days,

> he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I

looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of

nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his

gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

> Thanks

> is

>

[Guest guest]

Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar horrible

experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it is

nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold

after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any

suggestions, it would be great.

is

> >

> > Hi is,

> >

> > Feel free to contact me offline and to try to set up a time to talk if you

want. Â We had alot of problems this spring/summer (and fall now that I think

about it) with the gut and antifungals/antibs/herbs etc. so I know how it feels

to see them getting a little better in some areas but worse in others.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: alexis_d3378 <alexis_d3378@>

> > To: mb12valtrex

> > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> > Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

> >

> >

> > Â

> > Hi everyone,

> > I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son

has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at

least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have

removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom

that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to

urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his

thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert

than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the

last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started

vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later

point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am

concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous

apetite these days but some days,

> > he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I

looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of

nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his

gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

> > Thanks

> > is

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Really? I have never heard this before??? How do you find out if one is strep based or not? I didn't see anything on the lable that would have given me a red flag. Thanks! ANG

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:48 PMSubject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

its strep based so if you have a PANDAS it can be counterdictive

From: alexis_d3378

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

To: mb12valtrex

Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these

days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

Thanks alexis, pls keep us updated! Do you or anyone know of a safe antifungal for longer term use? As mentioned my kids don't tolerate the herbs and coconut based antifungals. My son has done the best on sporonox but I am worried about the liver for longterm use. Didn't do well on amp. B and diflucan wasn't as effective as sporonox...anyone have any advice on this? Since they both flare with the mildest detoxing this makes me worried...hope the immusist is the key for us...Thanks,-- Sent from my Palm Pre

Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar horrible experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it is nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any suggestions, it would be great.

is

> >

> > Hi is,

> >

> > Feel free to contact me offline and to try to set up a time to talk if you want. Â We had alot of problems this spring/summer (and fall now that I think about it) with the gut and antifungals/antibs/herbs etc. so I know how it feels to see them getting a little better in some areas but worse in others.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: alexis_d3378 <alexis_d3378@>

> > To: mb12valtrex

> > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

> > Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

> >

> >

> > Â

> > Hi everyone,

> > I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these days but some days,

> > he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

> > Thanks

> > is

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Nystatin is still considered the safest antifungal and it can be taken longterm.

The side effects that my son is experiencing could be just his own intolerance

to the drug. I will have a nystatin free period for him and observe. If he still

continues to have the same problems then may be something else is going on. I

have personally used diflucan and could not tolerate it. My son did'nt do well

on herbs last year. I think we all have to yry and see what works best for our

kids. I hope we will find answers.

is

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; Hi is,

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; Feel free to contact me offline and to try to set up a time to talk

if you want. Â & nbsp;We had alot of problems this spring/summer (and fall now

that I think about it) with the gut and antifungals/antibs/herbs etc. so I know

how it feels to see them getting a little better in some areas but worse in

others.

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; All the best,

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; ________________________________

>

> & gt; & gt; From: alexis_d3378 & lt;alexis_d3378@ & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; To: mb12valtrex

>

> & gt; & gt; Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PM

>

> & gt; & gt; Subject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; Â & nbsp;

>

> & gt; & gt; Hi everyone,

>

> & gt; & gt; I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut.

My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut

issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and

have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One

symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then

urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin

and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is

more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy

for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started

vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later

point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am

concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous

apetite these days but some days,

>

> & gt; & gt; he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his

apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side

effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going

on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?

>

> & gt; & gt; Thanks

>

> & gt; & gt; is

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

[Guest guest]

is, , and others,

I think I can help...

Years ago, I came into autism research as a graduate student studying

neuroscience and biology. That made me familiar with current studies on how

certain " treatments " worked in other contexts, like knowing that neuroscientists

use nystatin to make holes in neuron membranes experimentally. One of my

professors who used nystatin in this way was very concerned when I told him that

doctors used nystatin orally for " killing yeast " .

I quickly learned (by asking)that doctors are not informed that nystatin's

activity against microbes involved making holes in their membranes and they were

told that nystatin stays in the gut.

The holes nystatin makes changes how ions move through cell membranes. The

growth in size of the holes in microbial membranes happens faster than in our

own membranes, but the same process was happening in both. The change in the

movement of ions across membranes in fungus is what gave killing power to

nystatin or amphotericin B, which works by the same mechanism of punching holes.

Doctors have assumed nystatin is specific to fungus, but scientists found

nystatin binds in our cell membranes to cholesterol and this made changes in

what crossed into our cells, too. In fungus, nystatin bound ergosterol, a

similar compound to cholesterol, but in fungus this interaction was more stable.

Cholesterol in our cells is used in the cell membrane for defining rafts in the

membrane that have special functions, and the functions of these rafts would

also be affected by nystatin, too, which is why 68 articles have been written

about this interaction. There really is a lot of science about nystatin to

know.

Does nystatin build up over time? Where does it go when it leaves? Nobody

seemed to know! But basically, the more of it that is there at the same time,

the larger the holes will become, so the larger the ions will be that will get

through. In other words, it may lose its specificity to smaller ions.

These are things that worried me when I realized those prescribing

antimicrobials for YEARS of use, sometimes, did not know their mechanisms of

action. The right scientific questions did not seem to be coming forth, like if

this other function of nystatin might have had more to do with what it was

changing than its effects on microbes.

I'm putting an article below that showed that experimentally some scientists

wanted to change the way that gut cells regulated the transporter that is broken

in cystic fibrosis. Because it is broken in CF, their mucus is globby and they

lose the function of a microbial barrier, and become susceptible to infections

that give people with CF a shorter life. This transporter carefully coordinates

its activity with a different family of transporters that move sulfate, oxalate

and iodine across cell membranes all over the body.

So in the experiment I was telling you about, Nystatin applied on the blood side

of the intestine made chloride atoms cross the cell membrane that ordinarily

wouldn't cross. They showed how that changed the function of the interaction of

transporters that have a lot to do with how oxalate and sulfate are managed in

the body.

Because of what these transporters do, this change would alter the regulation of

pH, fluid transport, and the built-in microbial barrier that I just mentioned.

Rosemary Waring's work years ago showed an enzyme defect in autism altered the

main chemical that makes this microbial barrier work. Back then she couldn't

have known that what she studied had anything to do with this system because

this system was discovered only in the past few years.

Another article on nystatin found that its effect, again on ions in OUR cells,

caused what kidney doctors called tubuloglomerular feedback in the kidney, which

you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubuloglomerular_feedback.

This is where nystatin's effect would overlap with angiotensin II, another

regulator of gut transport of oxalate that also regulates our appetite for salt

and water. Do you see how this might tie in to what you observed, is, as a

change in kidney function and thirst?

What has concerned me for years is that no one has studied how much nystatin may

cross into blood IF someone has a leaky gut, but I don't see how it could effect

the kidneys unless that has happened.

I did incidentally last night find a new article on gut permeability in autism

that I've put below and there is another new one written in French. There are

other studies saying that tell us that another drug, PEG, shouldn't get through

the gut, but the " wisdome " of those articles falls apart when you find other

studies that have used PEG to measure gut permeability by finding out how much

of it shows up in urine with a leaky gut. I wish we had similar studies on

nystatin to address what happens to it eventually and if it gets in blood if you

have a leaky gut.

So, some of the adverse things listmates here have observed really make a lot of

sense if you know how nystatin works, but this information doesn't make me

comfortable wondering where the nystatin has been going and what it has been

doing there.

Comp Biochem Physiol A Mol Integr Physiol. 2011 Sep 22. [Epub ahead of print]

CFTR mediated chloride secretion in the avian renal proximal tubule.

Laverty G, Anttila A, Carty J, Reddy V, Yum J, Arnason SS.

Source

Department of Biological Sciences, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716,

USA.

Abstract

In primary cell cultures of the avian (Gallus gallus) renal proximal tubule

parathyroid hormone and cAMP activation generate a Cl(-)-dependent short circuit

current (I(SC)) response, consistent with net transepithelial Cl(-) secretion.

In this study we investigated the expression and physiological function of the

Na-K-2Cl (NKCC) transporter and CFTR chloride channel, both associated with

Cl(-) secretion in a variety of tissues, in these proximal tubule cells. Using

both RT-PCR and immunoblotting approaches, we showed that NKCC and CFTR are

expressed, both in proximal tubule primary cultures and in a proximal tubule

fraction of non-cultured (native tissue) fragments. We also used

electrophysiological methods to assess the functional contribution of NKCC and

CFTR to forskolin-activated I(SC) responses in filter grown cultured monolayers.

Bumetanide (10 & #956;M), a specific blocker of NKCC, inhibited forskolin

activated I(SC) by about 40%, suggesting that basolateral uptake of Cl(-) is

partially mediated by NKCC transport. In monolayers permeabilized on the

basolateral side with nystatin, forskolin activated an apical Cl(-) conductance,

manifested as bidirectional diffusion currents in the presence of oppositely

directed Cl(-) gradients. Under these conditions the apical conductance appeared

to show some bias towards apical-to-basolateral Cl(-) current. Two selective

CFTR blockers, CFTR Inhibitor 172 and GlyH-101 (both at 20 & #956;M) inhibited the

forskolin activated diffusion currents by 38-68%, with GlyH-101 having a greater

effect. These data support the conclusion that avian renal proximal tubules

utilize an apical CFTR Cl(-) channel to mediate cAMP-activated Cl(-) secretion.

Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

PMID:

21964154

Am J Physiol Renal Physiol. 2001 Dec;281(6):F1102-8.

Nystatin and valinomycin induce tubuloglomerular feedback.

Ren Y, Yu H, Wang H, Carretero OA, Garvin JL.

Source

Hypertension and Vascular Research Division, Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit,

Michigan 48202, USA.

Abstract

The macula densa expresses a luminal Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) cotransporter and a

basolateral Cl(-) conductance. Although it is known that cotransport of Na(+),

K(+), and Cl(-) is the first step in tubuloglomerular feedback (TGF), subsequent

steps are unclear. We hypothesized that Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) entry via the luminal

Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) cotransporter elevates intracellular Cl(-), increases

electrogenic Cl(-) efflux across the basolateral membrane, and depolarizes the

macula densa, initiating TGF. We perfused afferent arterioles with macula densa

attached. The macula densa was perfused with solutions containing either 5 mM

Na(+) and 3 mM Cl(-) (low NaCl) or 80 mM Na(+) and 77 mM Cl(-) (high NaCl). When

the macula densa perfusate was changed from low to high NaCl, afferent arteriole

diameter decreased from 15.8 +/- 0.8 to 13.1 +/- 0.7 mm (P < 0.05). Adding 10

microM furosemide to the macula densa lumen blocked TGF. When nystatin, a group

I cation ionophore, was added to the macula densa lumen together with furosemide

in the presence of low NaCl, it induced TGF (from 18.0 +/- 1.5 to 15.6 +/- 1.6

mm; P = 0.003). When valinomycin, a K(+)-selective ionophore, was added to the

macula densa lumen together with furosemide in the presence of low NaCl

containing 5 mM K(+), it did not induce TGF. Subsequent addition of 50 mM KCl to

the macula densa perfusate induced TGF (from 21.7 +/- 0.8 to 17.5 +/- 1.3 mm; P

= 0.0047; n = 6). Adding 50 mM KCl without valinomycin did not induce TGF. When

5-nitro-2-(3-phenylpropylamino)benzoic acid (NPPB; 1 microM), a Cl(-) channel

blocker, was added to the bath, it blocked TGF induced by high NaCl, but did not

block TGF induced by valinomycin plus 50 mM KCl. NPPB did not alter afferent

arteriole constriction induced by norepinephrine. We concluded that increased

NaCl in the lumen of the macula densa leads to influx of Cl(-) via the

Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) cotransporter. The accelerated transport increases

intracellular Cl(-). The subsequent exit of Cl(-) across the basolateral

membrane via Cl( -) channels in turn leads to depolarization of the macula densa

and thereby induces TGF.

PMID:

11704561

J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr. 2010 Oct;51(4):418-24.

Alterations of the intestinal barrier in patients with autism spectrum disorders

and in their first-degree relatives.

de Magistris L, Familiari V, Pascotto A, Sapone A, Frolli A, Iardino P, Carteni

M, De M, Francavilla R, Riegler G, Militerni R, Bravaccio C.

Source

Department Magrassi-Lanzara, Gastroenterology, Second University of Naples,

Italy. laura.demagistris@...

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

Intestinal permeability (IPT) was investigated in patients with autism as well

as in their first-degree relatives to investigate leaky gut hypothesis. Faecal

calprotectin (FC) was also measured in patients with autism, either with or

without gastrointestinal symptoms, and in their first-degree relatives.

PATIENTS AND METHODS:

IPT results, assessed by means of the lactulose/mannitol test, were compared

with adult and child controls and with FC values.

RESULTS:

A high percentage of abnormal IPT values were found among patients with autism

(36.7%) and their relatives (21.2%) compared with normal subjects (4.8%).

Patients with autism on a reported gluten-casein-free diet had significantly

lower IPT values compared with those who were on an unrestricted diet and

controls. Gastrointestinal symptoms were present in 46.7% of children with

autism: constipation (45.5%), diarrhoea (34.1%), and others (alternating

diarrhoea/constipation, abdominal pain, etc: 15.9%). FC was elevated in 24.4% of

patients with autism and in 11.6% of their relatives; it was not, however,

correlated with abnormal IPT values.

CONCLUSIONS:

The results obtained support the leaky gut hypothesis and indicate that

measuring IPT could help to identify a subgroup of patients with autism who

could benefit from a gluten-free diet. The IPT alterations found in first-degree

relatives suggest the presence of an intestinal (tight-junction linked)

hereditary factor in the families of subjects with autism.

PMID:

20683204

>

>

> & nbsp;

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar

horrible experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it

is nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold

after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any

suggestions, it would be great.

>

> is

[Guest guest]

for my son...when he was exxessivley thirsty like that ....was because he was drinking poison...ie specail formula that docters insisted upon..he drank about 54 ounces of water a day...and wanted more...

his body was desperatly trying to detox itself//all the organs were being overburdened ...then the docters insisted i give him no water....ahh.....the brilliance of medical docters in the 20th century...

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:45 PMSubject: Can someone educate me on nystatin

Hi everyone,I have been hearing a lot about how nystatin could be bad for gut. My son has been on it since mid-september and I have been dealing with gut issues at least since mid-october. I had also introduced enhansa those days and have removed it because of pipperine and the time-line of his symptoms. One symptom that has been bothering me is extreme thirst that my son has and then urge to urinate since we started nystatin. Right now he is also on vancomycin and his thirst has just gotten worse. He still has yeasty behavior but he is more alert than he was before we started nystatin. His tantrums which were crazy for the last three weeks have reduced in intensity and frequency after I started vancomycin and took out enhansa. I will try to reintroduce enhansa at some later point but I want to learn more about nystatin. My dan likes it a lot but I am concerned if it is causing some damage to his gut. My son usually has a ravenous apetite these

days but some days, he stuffs his stomach with so much water that he just loses his apetite. I looked up and polydipsia(drinking excessive water) is a known side effect of nystatin but I want to know if it is indicating something bigger going on in his gut. Could it just be die off? Can someone please help me with this?Thanksis

[Guest guest]

It's only safe if it's working and not causing adverse reactions. I've met families that can't do non-systemic antifungals but do fine on systemic. And vice-versa of course. And then I've met families that were only able to tolerate any antifungals after doing antivirals. My son does not have an adverse reaction to nystatin but it does absolutely nothing for him. But he is also on antivirals and requires systemic antifungals so take that for what it's worth, too.

~ Antiviral Therapy 101~ gryffinstail.wordpress.com ~~ @Gryffins_Tail ~

,

Nystatin is still considered the safest antifungal and it can be taken longterm.

[Guest guest]

brillaint! thank you for sharing!!!!!!!!

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:50 AMSubject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

is, , and others,I think I can help...Years ago, I came into autism research as a graduate student studying neuroscience and biology. That made me familiar with current studies on how certain "treatments" worked in other contexts, like knowing that neuroscientists use nystatin to make holes in neuron membranes experimentally. One of my professors who used nystatin in this way was very concerned when I told him that doctors used nystatin orally for "killing yeast".I quickly learned (by asking)that doctors are not informed that nystatin's activity against microbes involved making holes in their membranes and they were told that nystatin stays in the gut. The holes nystatin makes changes how ions move through cell membranes. The growth in size of the holes in microbial membranes happens faster than in our own membranes, but the same process was happening in both. The change in the movement of ions across

membranes in fungus is what gave killing power to nystatin or amphotericin B, which works by the same mechanism of punching holes. Doctors have assumed nystatin is specific to fungus, but scientists found nystatin binds in our cell membranes to cholesterol and this made changes in what crossed into our cells, too. In fungus, nystatin bound ergosterol, a similar compound to cholesterol, but in fungus this interaction was more stable. Cholesterol in our cells is used in the cell membrane for defining rafts in the membrane that have special functions, and the functions of these rafts would also be affected by nystatin, too, which is why 68 articles have been written about this interaction. There really is a lot of science about nystatin to know.Does nystatin build up over time? Where does it go when it leaves? Nobody seemed to know! But basically, the more of it that is there at the same time, the larger the holes will become, so

the larger the ions will be that will get through. In other words, it may lose its specificity to smaller ions. These are things that worried me when I realized those prescribing antimicrobials for YEARS of use, sometimes, did not know their mechanisms of action. The right scientific questions did not seem to be coming forth, like if this other function of nystatin might have had more to do with what it was changing than its effects on microbes.I'm putting an article below that showed that experimentally some scientists wanted to change the way that gut cells regulated the transporter that is broken in cystic fibrosis. Because it is broken in CF, their mucus is globby and they lose the function of a microbial barrier, and become susceptible to infections that give people with CF a shorter life. This transporter carefully coordinates its activity with a different family of transporters that move sulfate, oxalate and iodine across cell

membranes all over the body.So in the experiment I was telling you about, Nystatin applied on the blood side of the intestine made chloride atoms cross the cell membrane that ordinarily wouldn't cross. They showed how that changed the function of the interaction of transporters that have a lot to do with how oxalate and sulfate are managed in the body.Because of what these transporters do, this change would alter the regulation of pH, fluid transport, and the built-in microbial barrier that I just mentioned. Rosemary Waring's work years ago showed an enzyme defect in autism altered the main chemical that makes this microbial barrier work. Back then she couldn't have known that what she studied had anything to do with this system because this system was discovered only in the past few years.Another article on nystatin found that its effect, again on ions in OUR cells, caused what kidney doctors called tubuloglomerular feedback in

the kidney, which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubuloglomerular_feedback.This is where nystatin's effect would overlap with angiotensin II, another regulator of gut transport of oxalate that also regulates our appetite for salt and water. Do you see how this might tie in to what you observed, is, as a change in kidney function and thirst?What has concerned me for years is that no one has studied how much nystatin may cross into blood IF someone has a leaky gut, but I don't see how it could effect the kidneys unless that has happened.I did incidentally last night find a new article on gut permeability in autism that I've put below and there is another new one written in French. There are other studies saying that tell us that another drug, PEG, shouldn't get through the gut, but the "wisdome" of those articles falls apart when you find other studies that have used PEG to measure gut permeability by

finding out how much of it shows up in urine with a leaky gut. I wish we had similar studies on nystatin to address what happens to it eventually and if it gets in blood if you have a leaky gut.So, some of the adverse things listmates here have observed really make a lot of sense if you know how nystatin works, but this information doesn't make me comfortable wondering where the nystatin has been going and what it has been doing there.Comp Biochem Physiol A Mol Integr Physiol. 2011 Sep 22. [Epub ahead of print]CFTR mediated chloride secretion in the avian renal proximal tubule.Laverty G, Anttila A, Carty J, Reddy V, Yum J, Arnason SS.SourceDepartment of Biological Sciences, University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716, USA.AbstractIn primary cell cultures of the avian (Gallus gallus) renal proximal tubule parathyroid hormone and cAMP activation generate a Cl(-)-dependent short circuit current

(I(SC)) response, consistent with net transepithelial Cl(-) secretion. In this study we investigated the expression and physiological function of the Na-K-2Cl (NKCC) transporter and CFTR chloride channel, both associated with Cl(-) secretion in a variety of tissues, in these proximal tubule cells. Using both RT-PCR and immunoblotting approaches, we showed that NKCC and CFTR are expressed, both in proximal tubule primary cultures and in a proximal tubule fraction of non-cultured (native tissue) fragments. We also used electrophysiological methods to assess the functional contribution of NKCC and CFTR to forskolin-activated I(SC) responses in filter grown cultured monolayers. Bumetanide (10 & #956;M), a specific blocker of NKCC, inhibited forskolin activated I(SC) by about 40%, suggesting that basolateral uptake of Cl(-) is partially mediated by NKCC transport. In monolayers permeabilized on the basolateral side with nystatin, forskolin activated an

apical Cl(-) conductance, manifested as bidirectional diffusion currents in the presence of oppositely directed Cl(-) gradients. Under these conditions the apical conductance appeared to show some bias towards apical-to-basolateral Cl(-) current. Two selective CFTR blockers, CFTR Inhibitor 172 and GlyH-101 (both at 20 & #956;M) inhibited the forskolin activated diffusion currents by 38-68%, with GlyH-101 having a greater effect. These data support the conclusion that avian renal proximal tubules utilize an apical CFTR Cl(-) channel to mediate cAMP-activated Cl(-) secretion.Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.PMID:21964154Am J Physiol Renal Physiol. 2001 Dec;281(6):F1102-8.Nystatin and valinomycin induce tubuloglomerular feedback.Ren Y, Yu H, Wang H, Carretero OA, Garvin JL.SourceHypertension and Vascular Research Division, Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, Michigan 48202,

USA.AbstractThe macula densa expresses a luminal Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) cotransporter and a basolateral Cl(-) conductance. Although it is known that cotransport of Na(+), K(+), and Cl(-) is the first step in tubuloglomerular feedback (TGF), subsequent steps are unclear. We hypothesized that Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) entry via the luminal Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-) cotransporter elevates intracellular Cl(-), increases electrogenic Cl(-) efflux across the basolateral membrane, and depolarizes the macula densa, initiating TGF. We perfused afferent arterioles with macula densa attached. The macula densa was perfused with solutions containing either 5 mM Na(+) and 3 mM Cl(-) (low NaCl) or 80 mM Na(+) and 77 mM Cl(-) (high NaCl). When the macula densa perfusate was changed from low to high NaCl, afferent arteriole diameter decreased from 15.8 +/- 0.8 to 13.1 +/- 0.7 mm (P < 0.05). Adding 10 microM furosemide to the macula densa lumen blocked TGF. When nystatin, a

group I cation ionophore, was added to the macula densa lumen together with furosemide in the presence of low NaCl, it induced TGF (from 18.0 +/- 1.5 to 15.6 +/- 1.6 mm; P = 0.003). When valinomycin, a K(+)-selective ionophore, was added to the macula densa lumen together with furosemide in the presence of low NaCl containing 5 mM K(+), it did not induce TGF. Subsequent addition of 50 mM KCl to the macula densa perfusate induced TGF (from 21.7 +/- 0.8 to 17.5 +/- 1.3 mm; P = 0.0047; n = 6). Adding 50 mM KCl without valinomycin did not induce TGF. When 5-nitro-2-(3-phenylpropylamino)benzoic acid (NPPB; 1 microM), a Cl(-) channel blocker, was added to the bath, it blocked TGF induced by high NaCl, but did not block TGF induced by valinomycin plus 50 mM KCl. NPPB did not alter afferent arteriole constriction induced by norepinephrine. We concluded that increased NaCl in the lumen of the macula densa leads to influx of Cl(-) via the Na(+)-K(+)-2Cl(-)

cotransporter. The accelerated transport increases intracellular Cl(-). The subsequent exit of Cl(-) across the basolateral membrane via Cl( -) channels in turn leads to depolarization of the macula densa and thereby induces TGF.PMID:11704561J Pediatr Gastroenterol Nutr. 2010 Oct;51(4):418-24.Alterations of the intestinal barrier in patients with autism spectrum disorders and in their first-degree relatives.de Magistris L, Familiari V, Pascotto A, Sapone A, Frolli A, Iardino P, Carteni M, De M, Francavilla R, Riegler G, Militerni R, Bravaccio C.SourceDepartment Magrassi-Lanzara, Gastroenterology, Second University of Naples, Italy. laura.demagistris@...AbstractOBJECTIVES:Intestinal permeability (IPT) was investigated in patients with autism as well as in their

first-degree relatives to investigate leaky gut hypothesis. Faecal calprotectin (FC) was also measured in patients with autism, either with or without gastrointestinal symptoms, and in their first-degree relatives.PATIENTS AND METHODS:IPT results, assessed by means of the lactulose/mannitol test, were compared with adult and child controls and with FC values.RESULTS:A high percentage of abnormal IPT values were found among patients with autism (36.7%) and their relatives (21.2%) compared with normal subjects (4.8%). Patients with autism on a reported gluten-casein-free diet had significantly lower IPT values compared with those who were on an unrestricted diet and controls. Gastrointestinal symptoms were present in 46.7% of children with autism: constipation (45.5%), diarrhoea (34.1%), and others (alternating diarrhoea/constipation, abdominal pain, etc: 15.9%). FC was elevated in 24.4% of patients with autism and in 11.6% of

their relatives; it was not, however, correlated with abnormal IPT values.CONCLUSIONS:The results obtained support the leaky gut hypothesis and indicate that measuring IPT could help to identify a subgroup of patients with autism who could benefit from a gluten-free diet. The IPT alterations found in first-degree relatives suggest the presence of an intestinal (tight-junction linked) hereditary factor in the families of subjects with autism.PMID:20683204 > > > & nbsp;> > > > > > > > > > > Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar horrible experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it is nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any suggestions, it would be great. > > is

[Guest guest]

just wanted to throw something out their i heard on LIA group.....some herb companys use sulphites when drying their herbs....so that could be a cause for bad reaction on herbs?

long shot but just thinkin out loud ..

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

,Nystatin is still considered the safest antifungal and it can be taken longterm. The side effects that my son is experiencing could be just his own intolerance to the drug. I will have a nystatin free period for him and observe. If he still continues to have the same problems then may be something else is going on. I have personally used diflucan and could not tolerate it. My son did'nt do well on herbs last year. I think we all have to yry and see what works best for our kids. I hope we will find answers. is>> Thanks alexis, pls

[Guest guest]

! Thank you so much for such an informative post. So it seems like at

cellular level, nystatin is causing damage which may extend upto the kidneys.

There are certain things which I wanted to discuss also. Few years ago I was

placed on diflucan and I had similar symptoms. I was extremely thirsty and

despite drinking liters of water, felt extremely dehydrated and had excessive

urination. My son was on homeotoxicology treatments last year and was receiving

anti yeast herbs with homeopathic meds and he had somewhat similar symptoms with

excessive urination, extreme thirst, chapped lips and behavioral issues. Many

parents have told me that anti yeast treatment, no matter what kind, can produce

these symptoms and this is just a part of die off. But my understanding was that

die off should not last for more than two weeks. I am wondering if fluconazole

and other antifungals also cause damage at a cellular level? Is it something

with yeast that killing it triggers chemical reactions leading to products which

are acidotic and lead to a situation like ketoacidosis? My son has acetone

breath on the days he feels worse and gets relief with baking soda(as

recommended by my friend Channa). Yesterday was a tough day for him and I gave

him baking soda last night and today he was comfortable, smiling and playing,

was less thirsty and had fewer trips to the bathroom. Another interesting point

is that he seemed to tolerate nystatin ok in the first month and his symptoms

gradually got worse although he had definitely shown improvement overall with

speech and social interaction. You mentioned in your post that nystatin overtime

can cause more damage to the gut and that seems like the situation with him.

Some dans hesitate to order the systemic antifungal even if there is a slight

abnormality in the CBC or other blood work. My son's LFTs are fine but his Hb

was high so we were waiting to start fluconazole. That is the reason I am

bringing up all these points about the anti yeast therapy and the symptoms we

are discussing. In your opinion, nystatin's side effects are because of long

term use or dose related?

Thanks

is

> >

> >

> > & nbsp;

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar

horrible experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it

is nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold

after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any

suggestions, it would be great.

> >

> > is

>

[Guest guest]

This is so intrresting to me a few years back our son was on nystatin and a few weeks into the treatnment along with the yellow stools one am he was so lethargic almost comatose gp could not find anything wrong my gut feeling was rinthat it was due to nystatin and toxins been released f homeopath. px opium remedy and. He started to wake up within an hour i hate nystatin and this is first post i have seen on neg effects. In relation to thirst and urination our son had that reaction to. Thyroid meds just a thoughtLet your email find you with BlackBerry® from VodafoneSender: mb12valtrex Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:27:48 -0000To: <mb12valtrex >ReplyTo: mb12valtrex Subject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin ! Thank you so much for such an informative post. So it seems like at cellular level, nystatin is causing damage which may extend upto the kidneys. There are certain things which I wanted to discuss also. Few years ago I was placed on diflucan and I had similar symptoms. I was extremely thirsty and despite drinking liters of water, felt extremely dehydrated and had excessive urination. My son was on homeotoxicology treatments last year and was receiving anti yeast herbs with homeopathic meds and he had somewhat similar symptoms with excessive urination, extreme thirst, chapped lips and behavioral issues. Many parents have told me that anti yeast treatment, no matter what kind, can produce these symptoms and this is just a part of die off. But my understanding was that die off should not last for more than two weeks. I am wondering if fluconazole and other antifungals also cause damage at a cellular level? Is it something with yeast that killing it triggers chemical reactions leading to products which are acidotic and lead to a situation like ketoacidosis? My son has acetone breath on the days he feels worse and gets relief with baking soda(as recommended by my friend Channa). Yesterday was a tough day for him and I gave him baking soda last night and today he was comfortable, smiling and playing, was less thirsty and had fewer trips to the bathroom. Another interesting point is that he seemed to tolerate nystatin ok in the first month and his symptoms gradually got worse although he had definitely shown improvement overall with speech and social interaction. You mentioned in your post that nystatin overtime can cause more damage to the gut and that seems like the situation with him. Some dans hesitate to order the systemic antifungal even if there is a slight abnormality in the CBC or other blood work. My son's LFTs are fine but his Hb was high so we were waiting to start fluconazole. That is the reason I am bringing up all these points about the anti yeast therapy and the symptoms we are discussing. In your opinion, nystatin's side effects are because of long term use or dose related?Thanksis > > > > > > & nbsp;> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just found out from some parents on another forum that they had similar horrible experience with nystatin - excessive thirst and polyuria. Then maybe it is nystatin causing all the craziness. Have two more days of it left. Will hold after that and see if symptoms improve. In the meantime if anyone has any suggestions, it would be great. > > > > is>

[Guest guest]

is,

I don't want to speak beyond the available data, but certainly, if nystatin is

retained, then its effects might grow greater in time as more nystatin was added

to cell membranes. In the gut, the cell turnover is pretty fast, so that is one

advantage in this being the place this is happening, because cells naturally

slough off. Because of that limit to how long damaged cells would be retained,

it may matter how fast and how much nystatin gets to the cell membrane, and both

would be influenced by a dose effect..

I wish we had clinical studies or even animal studies to clarify these issues.

I do see a lot of OATs when oxalate is high that also have markers of

ketoacidosis, but not everybody.

I keep being faced with changes in OATs like I saw today when a mom sent me an

OAT that was done after long courses of antifungals. This was on a child who

had been on a low oxalate diet since she began treatment, so diet definitely was

not the source of her oxalate, but all her markers for making endogenous oxalate

were astonishingly high and the child was not well at all, and hadn't been

growing. That is always a serious sign in a child no matter what therapy you

are doing.

As I discused in my presentation at AutismOne last year, I had a parent send me

a series of ten OATs on her child. After the fifth OAT there was a dramatic

increase in oxidative stress (which is not hard to understand given the toxicity

profile of diflucan), but what was shocking to me was the clear evidence of the

increase of endogenous oxalate that was present in the subsequent seven OATs

from this child, two that I received after my AutismOne talk.

It seems once it started, the increase of oxalate initiated after diflucan

treatment kept this child constantly in oxidative stress, and nothing she was

taking diminished the problem consistently. Her practitioners kept alternating

diflucan and nystatin, as you have probably been advised to do when symptoms

don't resolve.

I am still trying to understand the changes in the patterns on those 12 OATs, as

many things changed remarkably and severely along with the astonishingly high

and sudden increases in oxalate markers.

I keep seeing this pattern over and over, and the story seems to frequently

include the use of antifungal medication, though it may not be unique to these

medications.

Dr. Shaw many years ago heard me lecture on oxalate in Spain, and months later

wrote a newsletter that suggested that the source of the oxalate in autism was

primarily fungal. I did not and still do not think this claim was backed by

legitimate studies, but was really just an hypothesis, and unproven.

What I've been seeing on OATs is rather opposite....that it is the treatment of

fungal infections with these drugs that I keep seeing sending children into

astonishingly high levels of oxalate when they weren't high before. Really,

these levels are ending up much higher than I've seen from diet, though I don't

know that I've seen a pure " high oxalate diet with no antifungals " OAT.

So, is, obviously, no, i don't think switching to diflucan would help.

I've asked some DAN! doctor friends to send me before and after antifungal

therapy OATs on patients where they are confident the child got better, but

nobody has sent those to me yet. I want to know how they look different or if

they look different.

When these treatments spur on oxalate issues(as reflected in this child whose

OATs I discussed at AutismOne) we see on the OAT an impairment of carboxylase

activity as evidenced by increases in methylcitrate. Oxalate gets into the

binding site of carboxylase enzymes and shuts down their activity, so seeing

this happen when oxalate got high was not unexpected, but the rapidity and SHARP

increases of methylcitrate in this one child were amazing. Possibly, diflucan

also impaired the making of endogenous biotin by the flora. That cannot be

entirely ruled out and it might have been a combination of both things, but this

was a major hit to cellular function and cellular energy whatever the cause.

Pyruvate carboxylase is another carboxylase enzyme that oxalate would impair and

this may lead to lactic acid increasing (which almost always accompainies

increased oxalate markers). This happens because excess pyruvate is converted

into lactate instead of being made into oxaloacetate on the way to making

glucose. This is why this situation may lead to hypoglycemia.

This is also why a new OAT may reveal what has been happening if your child

indeed has the pattern I keep seeing after intense antifungal therapy has

backfired.

One of the reasons that this therapy may sustain the yeast problem rather than

resolving it, is that our defense against candida is mediated through a

carboxylase enzyme. We know this because children with genetic problems with

biotin inevitably have trouble with chronic yeast. The good news is that those

on a low oxalate diet and using high dose biotin therapy to repair the enzymes

damaged by oxalate, have found that their yeast issues resolve pretty painlessly

without the antifungal medication. Since biotin has been safely used at much

higher doses than we talk about using, this is a very safe alternative.

Oxalate is one of the chemicals that travels across the cell membrane in concert

with the activation of an antimicrobial system that involves the cystic fibrosis

transporter. One of my suspicions (though unproven) is that the oxalate issues

in autism may have compromised that antimicrobial system in a way that parallels

its disruption in cystic fibrosis. We need more research.

I hope you have read the article that came out in the European Journal of

Paediatric Neurology showing that oxalate being high in autism does NOT seem to

describe a " small subgroup " as DAN! leaders promulgated, but it instead seems to

be almost a universal autism issue. We actually in that study, looked at the

least likely " at risk " groups for having high oxalate as you will see if you

read the study but the levels that were found in blood and urine in these " not

at risk " kids were astonishing.. I'll put the abstract below.

There are many ways to get to an oxalate problem. It is scary to think that

diflucan use and its alternation with nystatin over many months may be one of

them, at least in some children whose vulnerability we need to understand. I'm

not saying this happens in all children who use these therapies, but it

certainly happens in some, as the evidence about that is very clear.

Eur J Paediatr Neurol. 2011 Sep 10. [Epub ahead of print]

A potential pathogenic role of oxalate in autism.

Konstantynowicz J, Porowski T, Zoch-Zwierz W, Wasilewska J, Kadziela-Olech H,

Kulak W, Owens SC, Piotrowska-Jastrzebska J, Kaczmarski M.

Source

Department of Pediatrics and Developmental Disorders, Medical University of

Bialystok, Poland.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Although autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) are a strongly genetic condition

certain metabolic disturbances may contribute to clinical features. Metabolism

of oxalate in children with ASD has not yet been studied.

AIM:

The objective was to determine oxalate levels in plasma and urine in autistic

children in relation to other urinary parameters.

METHOD:

In this cross-sectional study, plasma oxalate (using enzymatic method with

oxalate oxidase) and spontaneous urinary calcium oxalate (CaOx) crystallization

(based on the Bonn-Risk-Index, BRI) were determined in 36 children and

adolescents with ASD (26 boys, 10 girls) aged 2-18 years and compared with 60

healthy non-autistic children matched by age, gender and anthropometric traits.

RESULTS:

Children with ASD demonstrated 3-fold greater plasma oxalate levels [5.60

(5th-95th percentile: 3.47-7.51)] compared with reference [(1.84 (5th-95th

percentile: 0.50-4.70) & #956;mol/L (p < 0.05)] and 2.5-fold greater urinary

oxalate concentrations (p < 0.05). No differences between the two groups were

found in urinary pH, citraturia, calciuria or adjusted CaOx crystallization

rates based on BRI. Despite significant hyperoxaluria no evidence of kidney

stone disease or lithogenic risk was observed in these individuals.

CONCLUSIONS:

Hyperoxalemia and hyperoxaluria may be involved in the pathogenesis of ASD in

children. Whether this is a result of impaired renal excretion or an extensive

intestinal absorption, or both, or whether Ox may cross the blood brain barrier

and disturb CNS function in the autistic children remains unclear. This appears

to be the first report of plasma and urinary oxalate in childhood autism.

Copyright © 2011 European Paediatric Neurology Society. Published by Elsevier

Ltd. All rights reserved.

PMID:

21911305

>

> ! Thank you so much for such an informative post. So it seems like at

cellular level, nystatin is causing damage which may extend upto the kidneys.

There are certain things which I wanted to discuss also. Few years ago I was

placed on diflucan and I had similar symptoms. I was extremely thirsty and

despite drinking liters of water, felt extremely dehydrated and had excessive

urination. My son was on homeotoxicology treatments last year and was receiving

anti yeast herbs with homeopathic meds and he had somewhat similar symptoms with

excessive urination, extreme thirst, chapped lips and behavioral issues. Many

parents have told me that anti yeast treatment, no matter what kind, can produce

these symptoms and this is just a part of die off. But my understanding was that

die off should not last for more than two weeks. I am wondering if fluconazole

and other antifungals also cause damage at a cellular level? Is it something

with yeast that killing it triggers chemical reactions leading to products which

are acidotic and lead to a situation like ketoacidosis? My son has acetone

breath on the days he feels worse and gets relief with baking soda(as

recommended by my friend Channa). Yesterday was a tough day for him and I gave

him baking soda last night and today he was comfortable, smiling and playing,

was less thirsty and had fewer trips to the bathroom. Another interesting point

is that he seemed to tolerate nystatin ok in the first month and his symptoms

gradually got worse although he had definitely shown improvement overall with

speech and social interaction. You mentioned in your post that nystatin overtime

can cause more damage to the gut and that seems like the situation with him.

Some dans hesitate to order the systemic antifungal even if there is a slight

abnormality in the CBC or other blood work. My son's LFTs are fine but his Hb

was high so we were waiting to start fluconazole. That is the reason I am

bringing up all these points about the anti yeast therapy and the symptoms we

are discussing. In your opinion, nystatin's side effects are because of long

term use or dose related?

> Thanks

> is

[Guest guest]

Thank you both! So is, , Cheryl and others, would you give Sporonox long term (how long) if your child did well on it? Besides liver concerns (we are doing liverlife which seems to help) I have also worried about creating a resistance if you are an antifungal too long.....i was thinking that we stay on Nystatin for now and if we do some detoxing down the road and he flares bigtime we could then use the Sporonox? Any thoughts on this? It is amazing how "typical" my son can be when his yeast/clostridia are down but it always seems to creep back up....the good news is that we haven't seen the clostrida monster (i hate even writing this down bc you know it will probably crop back up after saying it).....I think the Candidase is helping alot too. Last week he was answering every question at home,

in speech therapy and ABA with "i dont know" and seemed pretty zoned out. He seemed to improve immediately with the Candidase that we started on Friday and his therapists say he is doing the best they have seen in a long time. I can tell too but i have also noticed more OCD (parasites or strep?)....anyway, he does this alot (gets better then regresses) so we shall see. I am just glad that his stool is finally back to baseline from one year ago!Thank you Channa on the sulphites comment. Very interesting! Now I have to do more researching on this. Are suphites and sulfur foods the same type of thing? I"m wondering why they do well on Liverlife and my son on Olive Leaf Glycerite but they have had so many problems with the others but maybe it is the processing...I know we've tried many different brands too....i am just too scared to try anything else at the moment

when I know the Nystatin works (at least for now)...still worried about longterm effects..... To: "mb12valtrex " <mb12valtrex > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

just wanted to throw something out their i heard on LIA group.....some herb companys use sulphites when drying their herbs....so that could be a cause for bad reaction on herbs?

long shot but just thinkin out loud ..

To: mb12valtrex Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Can someone educate me on nystatin

,Nystatin is still considered the safest antifungal and it can be taken longterm. The side effects that my son is experiencing could be just his own intolerance to the drug. I will have a nystatin free period for him and observe. If he still continues to have the same problems then may be something else is going on. I have personally used diflucan and could not tolerate it. My son did'nt do well on herbs last year. I think we all have to yry and see what works best for our kids. I hope we will find answers. is>> Thanks alexis, pls