I'm just curious RE: PSC and clotting disorders

[Guest guest]

I know that somehow the liver affects blood clotting. So I have a

question (or a few). I have been pregnant 6 times, a total of 9

babies, and only 4 have made it. I had a miscarriage at 2.5 months,

lost twins at almost 4 months, then a stillborn baby girl at 5.5

months. After that they " decided " that I must have some kind of

clotting disorder so when I got pregnant again they had me start

taking aspirin right away and my daughter was born healthy as a

horse, lol. Then with my last pregnancy, it started as triplets but

baby C passed away at 13 weeks (just over 3 months) so they think

the clotting may have caused that too.

So I guess my question is....how does liver disease cause clotting

disorders? After I had my son I started having some wierd symptoms

and after my first loss I was having elevated liver enzymes and some

other vague symptoms. I had no insurance though which is part of

the reason why it took nearly 5 years to figure out what was wrong.

So I'm curious. I have had nearly every test imaginable for

clotting disorders and the antiphospholipid one came back

questionable one time but perfect since then.

Sorry this got long. I'm just wondering that if I had some weird

clotting thing if that will cause problems for me at other time

(when I'm not pregnant).

This board is so helpful and I've learned so much. You guys amaze

me and I'm so glad to have you all as a resource and as friends that

can help me through this crummy journey.

(just call me itchy!)

24 from NE

PSC 8/07

PBC 10/06

[Guest guest]

Hi

The liver is involved in a complex series of steps that promotes the

coagulation of blood (i.e., clotting) when we have a cut or some

trauma that results in blood loss. Usually, there is a greater concern

when the trauma is internal since hemorrhaging or clots that travel

are far more serious than surface cuts.

I've located a couple of sites that explain this further but don't say

I didn't warn you for some heavy reading.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/C/Clotting.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coagulation

The first link also discusses bleeding and clotting disorders and how

they're typically managed.

Excessive clotting is a condition that is of personal interest (as I

had a DVT in my right leg in 1984 and one in my left in 1985). One

condition that may lead to excessive clotting is Protein S deficiency

but I tested negative for it so we decided that it was less risky to

take a low dosage of Coumadin than risk a possible 3rd clot. That all

changed when I developed ulcerative colitis in 2002 as I was bleeding

internally and still on anticoagulants--not a good mix.

In any event, I'm personally of the opinion that the DVTs I had years

ago are somehow related to the PSC; seeing as the specialists were

puzzled as to why I got them in the first place and since I now know

that I got a defective liver [too bad I can't return it to the

manufacturer and get a new one but I guess there isn't a warranty ].

[Guest guest]

If you are 24 and have been pregnant 6 times, maybe your body needs a break. I know this sounds like an "Old Wives Tale" but being an old ex-wife, I can't help it. I lost 3 very early pregnancies, and had 2 successful, over 10 years. (I always attributed the loss to my husband's exposure to agent orange). That took a toll from my body and also from my spirit. All I can suggest is to enjoy your 4 children for a year or two and let your body rebuild strength and also finish mourning the lost babies before trying again. I assume you have discussed this with your docs, and they may find no physical reason to wait, but maybe your body is telling you something. This is such a very personal issue I feel like I'm butting in where I don't belong when giving this advice, but I guess that is why we are involved with this site.

Take Care

MizKitSee what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

,

I've was diagnosed with PSC 18 years ago and about three years ago they prescribed me a daily dose of blood thinners, after my third DVT. Each DVT was after a short flight {about an hour each). I did not realize it was related to PSC until I learned from this site that other PSCers were having these problems as well and are on blood thinners (rat poisson). I don't think the doctors that first prescribed the warfin were aware of any connection (but I don't think they knew much about PSC). Being on blood thinners screws up your MELD scores though (not a concern for me since the Canadian system doesn't use the MELD score).

Ian (51) PSC 89

I know that somehow the liver affects blood clotting. So I have a question (or a few). I have been pregnant 6 times, a total of 9 babies, and only 4 have made it. I had a miscarriage at 2.5 months, lost twins at almost 4 months, then a stillborn baby girl at 5.5 months. After that they " decided " that I must have some kind of clotting disorder so when I got pregnant again they had me start taking aspirin right away and my daughter was born healthy as a horse, lol. Then with my last pregnancy, it started as triplets but baby C passed away at 13 weeks (just over 3 months) so they think the

clotting may have caused that too.So I guess my question is....how does liver disease cause clotting disorders? After I had my son I started having some wierd symptoms and after my first loss I was having elevated liver enzymes and some other vague symptoms. I had no insurance though which is part of the reason why it took nearly 5 years to figure out what was wrong.

So I'm curious. I have had nearly every test imaginable for clotting disorders and the antiphospholipid one came back questionable one time but perfect since then.

Sorry this got long. I'm just wondering that if I had some weird clotting thing if that will cause problems for me at other time (when I'm not pregnant).

This board is so helpful and I've learned so much. You guys amaze me and I'm so glad to have you all as a resource and as friends that can help me through this crummy journey. (just call me itchy!)

24 from NEPSC 8/07PBC 10/06 -- Ian Cribb P.Eng.

[Guest guest]

-----Original

Message-----

I did not realize it

was related to PSC until I learned from this site that other PSCers were having

these problems as well and are on blood thinners (rat poisson).

Not so sure about rat poison ……… right now, blood thinners are

saving my son’s intestines from a certain death and keeping his liver alive. Guess it depends on how you look at it ;-)

With love, Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

Son Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

_,___

[Guest guest]

I'm taking warfin every day (its quite likely its saving my life as well), but another use of warfin is as rat poison. They monitor my INR regularly to make sure I'm not taking too much (5mg per day at the moment).

Ian (51) PSC 89

-----Original Message----- I did not realize it was related to PSC until I learned from this site that other PSCers were having these problems as well and are on blood thinners (rat poisson).

Not so sure about rat poison ……… right now, blood thinners are saving my son's intestines from a certain death and keeping his liver alive.

Guess it depends on how you look at it ;-)

With love, Barb in

Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

Son

Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 &

6/30/07 @ Baylor in

Dallas

_,___

-- Ian Cribb P.Eng.

[Guest guest]

Oh we're taking a break, lol!!! I don't plan on having any more for a

least 5 years, if not more. But my losses were after my first

pregnancy. So I don't think it's because my body was worn out or

whatever. But as far as being pregnant....Yah, I need a break, lol!!!

[Guest guest]

I think what he meant was that they use warfarin (the blood thinner)

in rat poison. Without being to graphic, that's how the rats die,

they bleed to death internally. Yikes!

>

> Not so sure about rat poison ... right now, blood thinners are

saving my

> son's intestines from a certain death and keeping his liver alive.

> Guess it depends on how you look at it ;-)

>

> With love, Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

> Son Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

>

> _,___

>

[Guest guest]

My mother used rat poison in the garden, and her toy poodle Daisy ate some

of it. It was awful - we were terrified we'd lose her, but the Vet saved her

(she was kept overnight at Vets & treated). But we had to watch her

carefully for a month to make sure she didn't start bleeding internally. Yes

- rat poison can be an anti-coagulant.

-Marie

>

>I think what he meant was that they use warfarin (the blood thinner)

>in rat poison. Without being to graphic, that's how the rats die,

>they bleed to death internally. Yikes!

>

>

> >

> > Not so sure about rat poison ... right now, blood thinners are

>saving my

> > son's intestines from a certain death and keeping his liver alive.

> > Guess it depends on how you look at it ;-)

> >

> > With love, Barb in Texas - Together in the Fight, Whatever it Takes!

> > Son Ken (33) UC 91 - PSC 99 - Tx 6/21 & 6/30/07 @ Baylor in Dallas

> >

> > _,___

> >

>

>

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