Re: Oxytocin

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I am always looking for alternative treatments (non pharma) for my son's issues. We tried Oxytocin for about four months and decided to stop taking it. I noticed changes in him that were positive, but it did not affect his social disposition which was why we were taking it so I discontinued it. It had to be compounded and my insurance didn't cover it so it had to go. We would probably be using it still if my insurance covered it because it did even his moods out kind of smoothed out the rough edges. all in all a good product.

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I've been told that it comes in a commercial formula, to treat bedwetting. Have you heard of that option?

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I have never heard of it for treating bed wetting but I have looked into the over-the-counter version and I would be very skeptical of using them. Although this is a naturally occuring hormone in our bodies, it should be compounded to meet the specific requirements of each individual to be safe.

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Oxytocin does really help keep the mood elevated, will stop a lot of aggression and anxiety; however, I don't know that it really improves socialization as we would expect because it is the hormone for socialization and bonding. I see more improvement with the bonding, less anxiety and happy mood. Just for anyone interested...the real hormone is expensive and the insurance companies only cover a small amount if any PLUS it is a spray up the nose which is nasty. Dr. Le Gunn is selling the homeopathic version of oxytocin which is just as effective (I've tried both with my son) and it's a spray in the mouth rather than the nose. 561 350-6750

Has anyone had experience with their kids taking oxytocin? Does it really reduce aggression and increase social awareness? Currently, one of my son's is taking Abilify, but it doesn't seem to be very effective.

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What's the difference?

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The oxytocin which is a prescription is the actual hormone. That is why it is relatively expensive. A homeopathic oxytocin is oxytocin in a homeopathic form not the prescription hormone. The homeopathic is pretty strong so that the results are equivalent to the regular hormone.

What's the difference?

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

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I tried the phone number but it was for someone named Josh Pollin? Does the Dr. LeGunn have a web site?

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I apologize...I wrote the wrong number - 561 350-9967 - Dr. Le Gunn

I tried the phone number but it was for someone named Josh Pollin? Does the Dr. LeGunn have a web site?

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Yes homeopathics are diluted versions of the real substance. The more diluted the stronger the potency. They are really great to use because all homeopathic medicines are non toxic.

Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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It is untrue that all homeopathic medicines are non toxic. Many other herbs, minerals etc are in these and should also be used with caution. There are medications that can cause other dangerous interactions and cannot be mixed with others. Physicians/pharmacists should be consulted prior to self medicating.To: sList Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:39 PMSubject: Re: Oxytocin

Yes homeopathics are diluted versions of the real substance. The more diluted the stronger the potency. They are really great to use because all homeopathic medicines are non toxic.

Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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[Guest guest]

A child can take a whole bottle of homeopathic medicine and it's not toxic...It's written on homeopathic medicine..they don't have to be rushed to the hospital like normal allopathic medicine. Homeopathics are not herbs or minerals or supplements. They are very diluted dosages of a plant or herb. The following quote is from the society of homeopaths: "However, one major difference with homeopathic medicines is that substances are used in ultra high dilutions, which makes them non-toxic. To read more about safety studies: click here

It is untrue that all homeopathic medicines are non toxic. Many other herbs, minerals etc are in these and should also be used with caution. There are medications that can cause other dangerous interactions and cannot be mixed with others. Physicians/pharmacists should be consulted prior to self medicating.

To: sList Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:39 PMSubject: Re: Oxytocin

Yes homeopathics are diluted versions of the real substance. The more diluted the stronger the potency. They are really great to use because all homeopathic medicines are non toxic.

Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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[Guest guest]

Actually I opened up the doc u sent and it says this:

One of the main differences between homeopathic medicines and conventional medicines is that the latter are associated with significant toxicity problems. The highly-diluted nature of homeopathic medicines means that they are unlikely to lead to toxic side-effects known as ‘adverse drug reactions’

I think unlikely to lead to toxic side effects is not the same as non-toxic.

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To: deniseslist , slist@...

Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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We should all exercise caution when using homeopathic medicines. Not only they could be toxic (if you go to whole foods for ex, you can see the same medication at different concentrations for various ailments, that tells you something, right?) But if you work with a homeopathic doc they will tell you that there's risk of misdiagnosing and mis treatment just like with conventional medication.Some homeopathic meds cannot be combined and could be harmful if wrongly prescribed. There's a lot more to homeopathics than simply being "watered-down" versions of conventional meds. A consultation takes hours and sometimes only one extract is prescribed for a whole list of complaints, even for some that may seem unrelated.I appreciate 's and everybody else's willingness to share their knowledge, but I believe it's always best to consult a doctor in person (same reason I wouldn't settle for consultations with some DAN doctors over the phone- but that's another issue...).Our bodies and behavior give hints to the trained eye that would be practically impossible to convey over the phone, by an untrained caregiver...(Sorry for any typos, this phone is driving me crazy today!)Sent via BlackBerry from T-MobileSender: sList Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:55:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <sList >ReplyTo: sList Subject: Re: Oxytocin Actually I opened up the doc u sent and it says this:One of the main differences between homeopathic medicines and conventional medicines is that the latter are associated with significant toxicity problems. The highly-diluted nature of homeopathic medicines means that they are unlikely to lead to toxic side-effects known as ‘adverse drug reactions’I think unlikely to lead to toxic side effects is not the same as non-toxic. Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM Click here: With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated With Autism, Schizophrenia Induced

[Guest guest]

Well said!!Sent from my iPhonePlease excuse typos

We should all exercise caution when using homeopathic medicines. Not only they could be toxic (if you go to whole foods for ex, you can see the same medication at different concentrations for various ailments, that tells you something, right?) But if you work with a homeopathic doc they will tell you that there's risk of misdiagnosing and mis treatment just like with conventional medication.Some homeopathic meds cannot be combined and could be harmful if wrongly prescribed. There's a lot more to homeopathics than simply being "watered-down" versions of conventional meds. A consultation takes hours and sometimes only one extract is prescribed for a whole list of complaints, even for some that may seem unrelated.I appreciate 's and everybody else's willingness to share their knowledge, but I believe it's always best to consult a doctor in person (same reason I wouldn't settle for consultations with some DAN doctors over the phone- but that's another issue...).Our bodies and behavior give hints to the trained eye that would be practically impossible to convey over the phone, by an untrained caregiver...(Sorry for any typos, this phone is driving me crazy today!)Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Sender: sList

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:55:36 -0400 (EDT)To: <sList >ReplyTo: sList

Subject: Re: Oxytocin

Actually I opened up the doc u sent and it says this:

One of the main differences between homeopathic medicines and conventional medicines is that the latter are associated with significant toxicity problems. The highly-diluted nature of homeopathic medicines means that they are unlikely to lead to toxic side-effects known as ‘adverse drug reactions’

I think unlikely to lead to toxic side effects is not the same as non-toxic.

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To: deniseslist , slist@...

Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

[Guest guest]

No one is suggesting that you do not consult with a doctor or physician about using homeopathics. That was not the question - it was on the toxicity levels. Obviously if you are buying a homeopathic from a physician you will be instructed as to what you need to do. If you buy a homeopathic at Wholefoods or any other retail health store, the type of homeopathics you are buying is the regular commonly used homeopathics which have instructions or you can look on line for common colds or other common medical issues that do not require a medical physician - just like certain over the counter medications in a pharmacy. Selected dosages of homeopathics sold in the healthfood stores are very benign. If you know anything about homeopathy, what is sold to the public is the very weak and least concentrated forms of homeopathics. The higher dosages YOU CAN ONLY GET FROM A PHYSICIAN WHO SELLS HOMEOPATHY. There is a reason why that is done....so the public has only access to what is available to the average person and does not require a trained physician just like over the counter medications. If you are treating with more sophisticated homeopathy for neurological reasons or any other specific medical condition, then you for sure would want a physician's instructions. But homeopathics are NOT in the category of prescription drug medication when dealing with side effects or overdosing. Check with the hospitals and see how many people they are who have overdosed on homeopathic medication!! What is mind boggling here is the extensive use of PSYCHOTROPIC drugs to inhibit extreme behaviors and anxiety with a long list of serious side effects including addiction, shortening of life and possible death (look up Abilify). The issue and question that came up before is regarding toxicity. In most cases if homeopathic medicine is misused it usually is not effective for the purpose for which it was taken or the result might cause a reaction for a few days but nothing in comparison to drug medication misuse. But obviously in this case when treating children with a neurological disorder you want to consult a physician...that is why I recommended calling a physician who is using homeopathics in his practice for specific issues for children on the autism spectrum.

We should all exercise caution when using homeopathic medicines. Not only they could be toxic (if you go to whole foods for ex, you can see the same medication at different concentrations for various ailments, that tells you something, right?) But if you work with a homeopathic doc they will tell you that there's risk of misdiagnosing and mis treatment just like with conventional medication.Some homeopathic meds cannot be combined and could be harmful if wrongly prescribed. There's a lot more to homeopathics than simply being "watered-down" versions of conventional meds. A consultation takes hours and sometimes only one extract is prescribed for a whole list of complaints, even for some that may seem unrelated.I appreciate 's and everybody else's willingness to share their knowledge, but I believe it's always best to consult a doctor in person (same reason I wouldn't settle for consultations with some DAN doctors over the phone- but that's another issue...).Our bodies and behavior give hints to the trained eye that would be practically impossible to convey over the phone, by an untrained caregiver...(Sorry for any typos, this phone is driving me crazy today!)

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Sender: sList

Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:55:36 -0400 (EDT)

To: <sList >

ReplyTo: sList

Subject: Re: Oxytocin

Actually I opened up the doc u sent and it says this:

One of the main differences between homeopathic medicines and conventional medicines is that the latter are associated with significant toxicity problems. The highly-diluted nature of homeopathic medicines means that they are unlikely to lead to toxic side-effects known as ‘adverse drug reactions’

I think unlikely to lead to toxic side effects is not the same as non-toxic.

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Hi All,Here is an excerpt from something I wrote a few years ago on the subject:

It is estimated up to 80% of people are using complementary

and alternative medicine agents (CAMS) including herbal medicine (Ingersoll,

2005). While more information on psychotropic medication is becoming available

to counselors, there is not enough information of herbal medicines (Ingersoll).

The 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) created regulatory

approach for products, which include herbal products, vitamins, and minerals (, 2004). The

weakness of the 1994 law was that it did not require manufacturers to report

adverse reaction to the FDA. Additional effort must be made to create a model

for risk-benefit against the risk of toxicity (). CAM

agents are available without prescription and regardless of age, but increasing

body of evidence suggests these agents can have significant side effects and

potential drug-drug interactions (Mccabe). The most commonly used CAMs are

herbal preparations, sometimes referred to as botanical. Other popular groups

of alternatives are megadose vitamin and mineral agents.

St. ’s

wort is a common weed found in the meadows of America. The herb has been used for

minor external wound, mild anxiety, and depression (Schatzberg, Cole, & DeBattista,

2007). Recommended dosages vary considerably, and the strength of the compounds

vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Clinical trials to determine the

efficacy in Europe and America have

shown conflicting results. In most studies, St. ’s wort fared not much better than

the placebo in treating depression (Mccabe, 2002; Schatzberg et al., 2007).

Side effects include gastrointestinal upset, fatigue, photosensitivity, and

itch. It is also known to cause clinically significant drug-drug interactions,

including increased anxiety when taken with caffeine and theophylline

derivatives (Mccabe).

Kava is often used to treat anxiety and, in some cases, for

insomnia (Mccabe, 2002). Kava symptomatically calms nervous anxiety (Schatzberg

et al., 2007). The anxiolytic action of kava is related to its ability to relax

skeletal muscles through inhibition of sodium and calcium channels (Mccabe).

Although errors have been found in the studies that have been done, evidence

seems to identify kava as significantly better that placebo in reducing anxiety

(Mccabe). Chronic kava use, with concurrent benzodiazepine use, can cause

increased central nervous system depression and mental confusion. There is also

a possible relationship between kava use and hepatic damage (Schatzberg et al.,

2007). There is a general warning in France, Canada, and America against

the use of kava.

Valerian has been shown to help in the symptomatic treatment

of anxiety and insomnia (Schatzberg et al., 2007). It is a botanical agent,

native to Asia, used most commonly as a mild

sedative with the ability to cause sleep induction (Mccabe, 2002). It has also

been used, without clinical data, for self detoxification from alcohol, weak

anticonvulsant, antispasmodic, antiarrhythmic, and antidepressant (Mccabe).

Passion flower, a perennial climbing vine, has been used as

a mild sedative and antianxiety agent (Mccabe, 2002). The action of passion

flower, although unclear, appears to be related to the flavonoids contained in

the extract that promotes agonistic action on benzodiazepine receptors within

the central nervous system (Mccabe).

We need to remember that herbal medication, even in small amounts, can be harmful. People may still remember the herbal remedy from China such as ephedra. It was a

dietary supplement often utilized for weight loss, increased energy, and

enhanced athletic performance (Ling, 2004). The sale of ephedra was banned by the FDA

because it posed an unreasonable health risk. It is a naturally occurring

substance derived from botanicals. The ban by the FDA was similar to

fen-phen which was also pulled from the market because of safety concerns.

Herbal fen-phen was different because it was marketed as an alternative to a

prescription drug, and was therefore regulated under the strict rules of the

FDA (Ling).

It seems that people think a product is safe because it is natural. Given the

amount of false information out there about supplements and alternative

medicines, how can we better inform and protect the public?

At present, there is little conclusive evidence about the

efficacy of CAMs. The lack of empirical evidence does not mean CAMs do not

work. Practitioners have to be informed about these agents when working with

patients who choose to use CAMs (Mccabe). All of the possible interactions with

the prescribed medications have to be made clear so that patients can become

more aware of adverse side-effects. Henning and colleagues (2007) suggested

future directions in environmental health research explore relationships

between nutrition and lifestyle, exposure to environmental toxicants, and

disease. Research over the last several decades indicate the pathology of

almost all age related or chronic diseases are attributed to diet, exposure to

environmental agents, and genetic predisposition (Henning et al.). Research on

CAMs then must consider all of these factors in future research. Another important consideration is that effective medication and herbal dosage for children is very difficult to calculate so every precaution should be taken.

References

Hennig, B., Ettinger, A. S., Jandacek, R. J., Koo, S.,

Mcclain, C., Seifried, H., et al. (2007). Using nutrition for intervention and

prevention against environmental chemical toxicity and associated diseases. Environmental

Health Perspectives, 115(4), 493+.

Ingersoll, R. E. (2005). Herbaceuticals: An overview for

counselors. Journal of Counseling and Development, 83(4), 434+.Ling,

A. M. (2004). FDA to ban sales of dietary supplements containing ephedra. Journal

of Law, Medicine & Ethics, 32(1), 184+.

Mccabe, S. (2002). Complementary herbal and alternative

drugs in clinical practice. Perspectives

in Psychiatric Care, 38(3), 98+.

Schatzberg, A., Cole, J. & DeBattista, C. (2007). Manual

of clinical psychopharmacology. 6th ed. Arlington,

Virginia: American Psychiatric

Publishing, Inc.

, D. A. (2004). Botanical supplements: Weeding out the

health risks. Environmental Health Perspectives, 112(13), 750+.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated Wit

To: deniseslist , slist@...

Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

[Guest guest]

Word up!!!!! I have seen several doctors including prominent neurologists in the Parkland area who were more than happy to write a script for a dangerous psychotropic drug for my child without even batting an eye or suggesting we start with natural remedies first. I ran so fast to the door you couldn't see my shadow! I am not saying there is never a time for psychotropic drugs but only as a last resort when all other natural or homeopathic means have failed. Many if not most mainstream medical doctors become prescription drug pushers because they are uneducated as to the effectiveness of natural medicines not to their own fault but because most medical programs don't teach it. Probably for the same reason the FDA is blind to natural medicines: there isn't as much money in them and there is no large lobbying group shoving money into the the pockets of the powers that be.

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Allergies can present themselves at any time. Caution is still recommended.Sent from my iPad

A child can take a whole bottle of homeopathic medicine and it's not toxic...It's written on homeopathic medicine..they don't have to be rushed to the hospital like normal allopathic medicine. Homeopathics are not herbs or minerals or supplements. They are very diluted dosages of a plant or herb. The following quote is from the society of homeopaths: "However, one major difference with homeopathic medicines is that substances are used in ultra high dilutions, which makes them non-toxic. To read more about safety studies: click here

It is untrue that all homeopathic medicines are non toxic. Many other herbs, minerals etc are in these and should also be used with caution. There are medications that can cause other dangerous interactions and cannot be mixed with others. Physicians/pharmacists should be consulted prior to self medicating.

To: sList Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:39 PMSubject: Re: Oxytocin

Yes homeopathics are diluted versions of the real substance. The more diluted the stronger the potency. They are really great to use because all homeopathic medicines are non toxic.

Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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[Guest guest]

Correct. Anything can be toxic in high dosages, including water.Sent from my iPad

Actually I opened up the doc u sent and it says this:

One of the main differences between homeopathic medicines and conventional medicines is that the latter are associated with significant toxicity problems. The highly-diluted nature of homeopathic medicines means that they are unlikely to lead to toxic side-effects known as ‘adverse drug reactions’

I think unlikely to lead to toxic side effects is not the same as non-toxic.

Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated Wit

To: deniseslist , slist@...

Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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[Guest guest]

Yes this is very true and I'm not suggesting being irresponsible with homeopathy or any other kind of supplement, herb, or non allopathic medicine. For a person with a compromised immune system they are going to have more sensitivities to everything from food to supplements, herbs or homeopathy much more than a person with a strong immune system. So this all has to be taken into consideration and in these cases working with a trained practitioner or doctor is definitely recommended.

Allergies can present themselves at any time. Caution is still recommended.Sent from my iPad

A child can take a whole bottle of homeopathic medicine and it's not toxic...It's written on homeopathic medicine..they don't have to be rushed to the hospital like normal allopathic medicine. Homeopathics are not herbs or minerals or supplements. They are very diluted dosages of a plant or herb. The following quote is from the society of homeopaths: "However, one major difference with homeopathic medicines is that substances are used in ultra high dilutions, which makes them non-toxic. To read more about safety studies: click here

It is untrue that all homeopathic medicines are non toxic. Many other herbs, minerals etc are in these and should also be used with caution. There are medications that can cause other dangerous interactions and cannot be mixed with others. Physicians/pharmacists should be consulted prior to self medicating.

To: sList Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 1:39 PMSubject: Re: Oxytocin

Yes homeopathics are diluted versions of the real substance. The more diluted the stronger the potency. They are really great to use because all homeopathic medicines are non toxic.

Aren't all homeopathic versions just a tiny fraction of the real thing? For example, the doctor gave us a homeopathic med to take that had a miniscule amount of lithium in it to calm my child. No prescription was needed, because there was just a trace amount of the real thing.

Subject: Check out With New Technology, In Mouse Model, Social Deficits Associated WitTo: deniseslist , slist@...Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:53 PM

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