Re: New here

[Guest guest]

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all.

Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all.

Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all.

Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

-----Original Message-----From: MonaHolland1@... Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:04 PMTo: 12-step-free Subject: Re: New here

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all. Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

[Guest guest]

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

-----Original Message-----From: MonaHolland1@... Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:04 PMTo: 12-step-free Subject: Re: New here

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all. Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

[Guest guest]

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

You're reading something into my welcome to Duaine than is there. A cry for help? With what? The tone here is very differnt from LSR/SOS, and I was just letting him know that.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Ok. My bad. It just read " to me " as though you were looking for more

active participation from LSR/SOS folks here. I don't know just seemed odd

to me is all.

-----Original Message-----

From: MonaHolland1@...

You're reading something into my welcome to Duaine than is there. A cry for

help? With what? The tone here is very differnt from LSR/SOS, and I was

just letting him know that.

[Guest guest]

Ok. My bad. It just read " to me " as though you were looking for more

active participation from LSR/SOS folks here. I don't know just seemed odd

to me is all.

-----Original Message-----

From: MonaHolland1@...

You're reading something into my welcome to Duaine than is there. A cry for

help? With what? The tone here is very differnt from LSR/SOS, and I was

just letting him know that.

[Guest guest]

Ok. My bad. It just read " to me " as though you were looking for more

active participation from LSR/SOS folks here. I don't know just seemed odd

to me is all.

-----Original Message-----

From: MonaHolland1@...

You're reading something into my welcome to Duaine than is there. A cry for

help? With what? The tone here is very differnt from LSR/SOS, and I was

just letting him know that.

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

Excuse me? "Another" such? WTF are you talking about? Are we unwelcome here?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

Excuse me? "Another" such? WTF are you talking about? Are we unwelcome here?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

Excuse me? "Another" such? WTF are you talking about? Are we unwelcome here?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Another such what Mona? You made what I took to be a strange comment and I

commented on that. You seem to be forgetting here that the initial comment

that initiated my response was from you, and it had the distinct tone of

someone who felt she could use back up here. Which I still think sounded

odd coming from you.

, the paranoia some on this list exhibit where AA is concerned apparently spills over into other areas of recovery politics. I have little patience and no time for that.

If my mere welcome of an SOS member -- whom I really don't know that well, and who I believe may not understand how different this list is from whence he comes -- if that all inspires hob-nobbing about my ostensible calls for backup and attempts to take over the list, I am outta here. Some of you need to get a grip.

On what subjects do I supposedly require back-up? I was unaware that I was regarded as some outre faction around around here. Yup, we are all going to be highly effective in fighting the XA Goliath with eating our own.

I'm moving out-of-state in a bit more than a week, and had planned to unsubscribe at that time. You make that decision easier. If you like, I will also post to the LSRlist that we are not welcome here.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Another such what Mona? You made what I took to be a strange comment and I

commented on that. You seem to be forgetting here that the initial comment

that initiated my response was from you, and it had the distinct tone of

someone who felt she could use back up here. Which I still think sounded

odd coming from you.

, the paranoia some on this list exhibit where AA is concerned apparently spills over into other areas of recovery politics. I have little patience and no time for that.

If my mere welcome of an SOS member -- whom I really don't know that well, and who I believe may not understand how different this list is from whence he comes -- if that all inspires hob-nobbing about my ostensible calls for backup and attempts to take over the list, I am outta here. Some of you need to get a grip.

On what subjects do I supposedly require back-up? I was unaware that I was regarded as some outre faction around around here. Yup, we are all going to be highly effective in fighting the XA Goliath with eating our own.

I'm moving out-of-state in a bit more than a week, and had planned to unsubscribe at that time. You make that decision easier. If you like, I will also post to the LSRlist that we are not welcome here.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Another such what Mona? You made what I took to be a strange comment and I

commented on that. You seem to be forgetting here that the initial comment

that initiated my response was from you, and it had the distinct tone of

someone who felt she could use back up here. Which I still think sounded

odd coming from you.

, the paranoia some on this list exhibit where AA is concerned apparently spills over into other areas of recovery politics. I have little patience and no time for that.

If my mere welcome of an SOS member -- whom I really don't know that well, and who I believe may not understand how different this list is from whence he comes -- if that all inspires hob-nobbing about my ostensible calls for backup and attempts to take over the list, I am outta here. Some of you need to get a grip.

On what subjects do I supposedly require back-up? I was unaware that I was regarded as some outre faction around around here. Yup, we are all going to be highly effective in fighting the XA Goliath with eating our own.

I'm moving out-of-state in a bit more than a week, and had planned to unsubscribe at that time. You make that decision easier. If you like, I will also post to the LSRlist that we are not welcome here.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

You can do what you like and no doubt you will but just remember posting

often in a negative context about this list and threatening to leave many

times, and only just recently explaining why, do not tend to endear you to

me at least. Can't speak for anyone else.

Endearing myself to you is not, as I'm sure you must know, a concern of mine. Nor have I threatened to leave many times; it is only in the last day or two I have said that that is my intention -- a natural time to do that will be when I disassemble this computer and move out-of-state, and acquire a different email address. Constant threads about the ostensibly evil cyber-machinations of Jim Shirk, or whatever-his-name is, do not interest me, and if that is to be the substance of this list, you would not want me here -- I'd just be spewing frustration and disgust at the absurdity of such a focus.

I remain angry and perplexed at the hostility Ken has exhibited toward LSR, and that is now coming from others. What did any person in our group ever say or do to merit such neurotic and, frankly, paranoid suspicions? That the majority of us (my guess here) would rather be dead than go to an AA meeting isn't good enough for you?

Is it, at the end of the day, that we are asbtinence-based?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

You can do what you like and no doubt you will but just remember posting

often in a negative context about this list and threatening to leave many

times, and only just recently explaining why, do not tend to endear you to

me at least. Can't speak for anyone else.

Endearing myself to you is not, as I'm sure you must know, a concern of mine. Nor have I threatened to leave many times; it is only in the last day or two I have said that that is my intention -- a natural time to do that will be when I disassemble this computer and move out-of-state, and acquire a different email address. Constant threads about the ostensibly evil cyber-machinations of Jim Shirk, or whatever-his-name is, do not interest me, and if that is to be the substance of this list, you would not want me here -- I'd just be spewing frustration and disgust at the absurdity of such a focus.

I remain angry and perplexed at the hostility Ken has exhibited toward LSR, and that is now coming from others. What did any person in our group ever say or do to merit such neurotic and, frankly, paranoid suspicions? That the majority of us (my guess here) would rather be dead than go to an AA meeting isn't good enough for you?

Is it, at the end of the day, that we are asbtinence-based?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

You can do what you like and no doubt you will but just remember posting

often in a negative context about this list and threatening to leave many

times, and only just recently explaining why, do not tend to endear you to

me at least. Can't speak for anyone else.

Endearing myself to you is not, as I'm sure you must know, a concern of mine. Nor have I threatened to leave many times; it is only in the last day or two I have said that that is my intention -- a natural time to do that will be when I disassemble this computer and move out-of-state, and acquire a different email address. Constant threads about the ostensibly evil cyber-machinations of Jim Shirk, or whatever-his-name is, do not interest me, and if that is to be the substance of this list, you would not want me here -- I'd just be spewing frustration and disgust at the absurdity of such a focus.

I remain angry and perplexed at the hostility Ken has exhibited toward LSR, and that is now coming from others. What did any person in our group ever say or do to merit such neurotic and, frankly, paranoid suspicions? That the majority of us (my guess here) would rather be dead than go to an AA meeting isn't good enough for you?

Is it, at the end of the day, that we are asbtinence-based?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

DT

RE: New here

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

-----Original Message-----From: MonaHolland1@... Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:04 PMTo: 12-step-free Subject: Re: New here

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all. Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

DT

RE: New here

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

-----Original Message-----From: MonaHolland1@... Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:04 PMTo: 12-step-free Subject: Re: New here

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all. Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

[Guest guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the folks here would let this list degenerate into just another in the LSR stable. IIRC Ken had some concerns in that direction.

DT

RE: New here

Mona when I read this, I couldn't help it but Rick 's "A Cry For Help" came to mind.

And I thought to myself how strange a statement coming from you.

-----Original Message-----From: MonaHolland1@... Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:04 PMTo: 12-step-free Subject: Re: New here

I'm looking forward to getting to know Y'all. Hi Duaine, and good to see another SOS/LSR member here. This list "feels" much different than the LSR or SOS lists to me, and I'll be interested to see what you think.

[Guest guest]

What paranoid suspicions would those be Mona? That's a serious question

> because I honestly don't know to what you're referring here.

See Dave Trippell's post in which he posits that some sort of LSR takeover is afoot, i,e, that "We" want to make this list another "LSR stable." I mean, I get that Dave is one of Jack Tirmpey's lieutenants, and in their mind AA has almost Satanic powers to effect Evil, but now LSR is also somehow plotting to take over...a freakin' egroup list? And we've got a stable of such lists?

This is petty-minded insanity.

Listen, we in LSR are about getting and staying sober, and making sure that people can do that without having to put up with 12 Step bullshit. Neither I, nor anyone I know in LSR, would spend two seconds conspiring to take over an elist. Add to all of this bizarre paranoia Ken's parting shot that we in LSR are "among the worst" sort who are nothing but AA without God, and I think I well see that this list is largely constituted of ..."unusual" people.

Kaleigh I will miss; she is a very bright woman with much insight. also makes some fine and provocative contributions. And, I share Pete's disgust with those who dismiss the value of medication -- whether such idiocy comes from AA or any other quarter. is intelligent and posts substantively, too. I'm sure I'm leaving out worthy and interesting others.

It is my hope to be instrumental in pulling together a national clearinghouse for lawyers who will fight 12 Step coercion. But I'm not going to do so in an atmosphere of paranoia and lunacy.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

A quick check and I emphasize a

"quick check" indicates the first time you talked about leaving the list was

almost a month ago Mona.

What post? I don't recall ever posting that I was going to leave the list. The only thing I can fathom you mean is my saying something about not liking it here with Diener posts swamping my mailbox. I don't think I was alone in that.

But the fact is, my interest in leaving the list has only grown pronounced in the last week or so. Bob Marshall left over a month ago, and I have recently told him I'll likely join him. Another one of my Agent Provocateurs from LSR is likely to pull out with me.

Dave Trippell can report back to HQ that the encroachment is about to end; invasion averted. <eyes rolling>

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

A quick check and I emphasize a

"quick check" indicates the first time you talked about leaving the list was

almost a month ago Mona.

What post? I don't recall ever posting that I was going to leave the list. The only thing I can fathom you mean is my saying something about not liking it here with Diener posts swamping my mailbox. I don't think I was alone in that.

But the fact is, my interest in leaving the list has only grown pronounced in the last week or so. Bob Marshall left over a month ago, and I have recently told him I'll likely join him. Another one of my Agent Provocateurs from LSR is likely to pull out with me.

Dave Trippell can report back to HQ that the encroachment is about to end; invasion averted. <eyes rolling>

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Mona did you ever stop to consider the very real possibility Dave might have

been telling me to chill the hell out?

No. And I'm not consiering it now.

I've got to tell you though Mona

that JT's lieutenant stuff sounds kind of out there to me.

That's nice, but I've been told he is affiliated with Jack Trimpey. Not that I care; Jack has done good things for "rational" recovery. But his screeds on AA are not rational.

>>This is the kind of comment to which I referred earlier that you are want to

make concerning the people on this list.  Whether it matters to you or not

it's comments like this that do not endear you to me<<

That's too fucking bad, . Ken made a wholly unfounded accusation against LSR; on this list to liken a group to AA in any way is pretty damning indeed. Then you think I'm sending subtextual messages to an SOS member I barely even know to ask for "back-up" (backup for freakin' what? hmmm?), and then Dave Trippell announces LSR is trying to turn the list into an LSR "stable" of the sort that concerned Ken.

So lessee...I'm recruiting back-up from LSR and we are taking over lists and adding them t our "stable." What a load of overwrought, absolutely juvenile billlshit. THAT, , is what I mean about paranoia. LSR is a goddam recovery group, with zero, and I mean zero interest in taking over this or any other list. For one thing, we are a bunch of extremely independent people who can barely stay organized to support one another on our own list, much less take over anyone else's. If I told the LSRlist about this fevered ranting here, and the plot we are purportedly about, they could only be confused -- and perhaps amused.

--Mona--