Re: McKay public School choice buses?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I know what you mean about the busses. Noah's comes at 5:08 am. But he's not on it. I now wake up at 5 am so I can drive him to school and still get me to work on time. It sucks, but it's nice to have the time together with him in the morning.

I've found the folks at North area bus depot to be pretty helpful usually, but when they're not I ask for a supervisor, and keep going up the ladder til my issue is resolved, one way or the other.

To: sList Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:47 AMSubject: McKay public School choice buses?

Does anyones kids use McKay for PS with transportation? My son just started and I cant believe how long the school day is. The bus came early today. He was supposed to come at 6:02 and called me at 5:48 that he was coming in the gate. Yesterday the bus didnt drop my son off till 4:45 pm. That is a LONG day given school gets out at 2:40. The more I think about it though, I guess that is what others deal with? I had a few issues with him not being picked up yesterday and the bus station has been so mean. Everyone is acting like Ive done something wrong by calling. It is crazy.

[Guest guest]

My daughter was offered transportation as part of the McKay but it was just as

ridiculous as what you are seeing. . . Pick up at 6:00 for a school day that

started at 8:30. I actually felt insulted that they would even offer that type

of transportation. I was able to drop her off myself on my way to work. The

school board should be ashamed of the " solutions " they offer to parents.

Jean Eccleston

Sent from my Samsung Captivate on AT & T

wrote:

>Does anyones kids use McKay for PS with transportation? My son just started and

I cant believe how long the school day is. The bus came early today. He was

supposed to come at 6:02 and called me at 5:48 that he was coming in the gate.

Yesterday the bus didnt drop my son off till 4:45 pm. That is a LONG day given

school gets out at 2:40. The more I think about it though, I guess that is what

others deal with? I had a few issues with him not being picked up yesterday and

the bus station has been so mean. Everyone is acting like Ive done something

wrong by calling. It is crazy.

>

[Guest guest]

I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed that

this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2 hour

to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with neither

about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense from the

school boa

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

Another non-sense from the school board....if anyone know what we can

do...please step forward

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

And no....you didn't do something wrong by calling ? You are not alone...and yes

it is crazy.

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

This is from the FDOE ESE Rules Book (Red Book)

http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf

page 234

© To plan routes, so far as practicable, so that no elementary student shall

be on a bus more than fifty (50) minutes or secondary school student more than

one (1) hour during the morning or evening, and so that no more than an hour and

one-half will elapse between the time the student boards the bus and the time

school begins, or the time school closes and the student leaves the bus in the

afternoon, and to arrange proposed routes which, insofar as possible, are free

from major hazards.

Steve

>

> Another non-sense from the school board....if anyone know what we can

do...please step forward

>

> Nathalie

>

[Guest guest]

I thought under IDEA there is a limit in time from home to school and vise versa.To: "sList " <sList >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:43 PMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed that this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with neither about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense from the school boa

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

> This is from the FDOE ESE Rules Book (Red Book)

>

> http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf

WOW. How can this be enforced??? I called and was told with budget cuts that is

the route. This week...they have been picking up at 5:40 with a few kids already

on the bus. Drop off at the school at 7:15 Pick up at 2:45 or so and drop off

after school at 4:00

[Guest guest]

I don't know because we have never had this problem. I would start by printing

out page 234 and showing it to your ESE specialist. Then you may have to work

your way up the chain of command, principal, area ESE, District ESE, etc.

Unfortunately, transportation is run as a seperate department and you may very

well get " thats a transportation issue " answer. If that happens I would just go

to the top of whoever is in charge of Transportation. Couldn't hurt to let your

three school board members know and maybe copy in the Due Process Coordinator

just to cover all the bases.

The FDOE Rules are the rules that have to be followed, a SCHEDULE that exceeds

the time limits sounds like clear grounds for due process. Get the schedule in

writing.

Steve

>

>

> > This is from the FDOE ESE Rules Book (Red Book)

> >

> > http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf

>

>

> WOW. How can this be enforced??? I called and was told with budget cuts that

is the route. This week...they have been picking up at 5:40 with a few kids

already on the bus. Drop off at the school at 7:15 Pick up at 2:45 or so and

drop off after school at 4:00

>

[Guest guest]

This morning the bus came jam packed with students. I asked the driver -who are these students and is this the special needs bus? and she replied no, the special need children are on the bus and others from 2 other bus stops. I called transportation and got the run around and was actually told that it is not a federal law that the school district has to provide an attendent or a specific bus for special needs children, that it had been a "courtesy" to the children. Really? I respectfully (while I gritted my teeth) requested that for "safety" issues that my child be seated either directly behind the driver or to the immediate right so that she is within eye/ear sight. I swear if anyone touches one hair on her head/body/clothing/personal items there will be a major

lawsuit. I know - we are working on independence, however when I rode the bus with typical teenagers I was able to defend myself and there was alot going on those buses. What can we do? Any practical suggestions? - we should all go to the ese advisory and to our school board members and let them know what the cuts are doing to our kids.From:

Papidedos To: "sList " <sList >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:18 PMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

I thought under IDEA there is a limit in time from home to school and vise versa.To: "sList " <sList >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:43 PMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice

buses?

I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed that this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with neither about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense from the school boa

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

Yes......the next ese advisory meetings is SEPTEMBER 7th, 2011 at Piper High

School.

Anyone with transportation issues.....or any issues....PLEASE SHOW UP

IT IS DEFINITLY NOT RIGHT TO PUT CHILDREN ON THE BUS AT 5:00....(and they ask to

be out 10 minutes before) for the school to start at 7:00.....

This is not my situation....but NOT RIGHT for ANY children......

PLEASE....SHOW UP TO THE MEETING....!!!!!!!

Nathalie

[Guest guest]

What you describe is actually new this year for Broward County. At ESE Advisory

we were told that students less challenged would be taking the bus with typical

children while the more challenged students would continue on ESE buses as

before. As many of the parents that attend ESE Advisory have children that are

more challenged many were suprised this was not already policy as it would make

sense regarding " Least Restrictive Environment. "

I took a quick look over the transportation part of the " Rule Book "

http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf (start pg 231)

and didn't see a section about attendants being required, although attendants

are mentioned several times.

There is this from page 231:

(1) The school district shall determine what safety measures shall be used in

the transportation of students.

and there may be more but that might require some more digging.

Steve

>

> This morning the bus came jam packed with students. I asked the driver -who

are these students and  is this the special needs bus? and she replied no,

the special need children are on the bus and others from 2 other bus stops. I

called transportation and got the run around and was actually told that it is

not a federal law that the school district has to provide an attendent or a

specific bus for special needs children, that it had been a " courtesy " to the

children. Really? I respectfully (while I gritted my teeth) requested that for

" safety " issues that my child be seated either directly behind the driver or to

the immediate right so that she is within eye/ear sight. I swear if anyone

touches one hair on her head/body/clothing/personal items there will be a major

lawsuit. I know - we are working on independence, however when I rode the bus

with typical teenagers I was able to defend myself and there was alot going on

those buses. What

> can we do? Any practical suggestions? - we should all go to the ese

advisory and to our school board members and let them know what the cuts are

doing to our kids.

>

>

>

> >To: " sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:18 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> > Â

> >

> >I thought under IDEA there is a limit in time from home to school and vise

versa.

> >

> >

> >

> >To: " sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:43 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> >Â

> >I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed

that this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2

hour to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with

neither about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense

from the school boa

> >

> >Nathalie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Florida has regulations stating how long elementary and high school students can

be in the bus from the time they are picked up to the time school starts. (This

is for all children not just special needs.) In addition if the child's IEP

states that a bus attendant must be present (for safety reasons), it is not a

courtesy but a MUST. I have the regs in my office if you would like to contact

me there on Monday.

Ida Kessler, UCP Advocacy Coordinator .

>

> This morning the bus came jam packed with students. I asked the driver -who

are these students and  is this the special needs bus? and she replied no,

the special need children are on the bus and others from 2 other bus stops. I

called transportation and got the run around and was actually told that it is

not a federal law that the school district has to provide an attendent or a

specific bus for special needs children, that it had been a " courtesy " to the

children. Really? I respectfully (while I gritted my teeth) requested that for

" safety " issues that my child be seated either directly behind the driver or to

the immediate right so that she is within eye/ear sight. I swear if anyone

touches one hair on her head/body/clothing/personal items there will be a major

lawsuit. I know - we are working on independence, however when I rode the bus

with typical teenagers I was able to defend myself and there was alot going on

those buses. What

> can we do? Any practical suggestions? - we should all go to the ese

advisory and to our school board members and let them know what the cuts are

doing to our kids.

>

>

>

> >To: " sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:18 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> > Â

> >

> >I thought under IDEA there is a limit in time from home to school and vise

versa.

> >

> >

> >

> >To: " sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:43 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> >Â

> >I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed

that this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2

hour to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with

neither about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense

from the school boa

> >

> >Nathalie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I took a similar issue to the staffing specialist at my son's school and she handled it immediately. I would recommend seeing your staffing specialist as they handle the transportation of kids who have transportation on their IEP.

Re: McKay public School choice buses?

I don't know because we have never had this problem. I would start by printing out page 234 and showing it to your ESE specialist. Then you may have to work your way up the chain of command, principal, area ESE, District ESE, etc.

Unfortunately, transportation is run as a seperate department and you may very well get "thats a transportation issue" answer. If that happens I would just go to the top of whoever is in charge of Transportation. Couldn't hurt to let your three school board members know and maybe copy in the Due Process Coordinator just to cover all the bases.

The FDOE Rules are the rules that have to be followed, a SCHEDULE that exceeds the time limits sounds like clear grounds for due process. Get the schedule in writing.

Steve

>

>

> > This is from the FDOE ESE Rules Book (Red Book)

> >

> > http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf

>

>

> WOW. How can this be enforced??? I called and was told with budget cuts that is the route. This week...they have been picking up at 5:40 with a few kids already on the bus. Drop off at the school at 7:15 Pick up at 2:45 or so and drop off after school at 4:00

>

[Guest guest]

have it written into your iep

>

> Another non-sense from the school board....if anyone know what we can

do...please step forward

>

> Nathalie

>

[Guest guest]

I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not a federal law and it was only a "courtesy" that an aide was ever placed on a bus. This is from Rolando - in charge of transportation. As of now the only aides will be on wheelchair routes. However, he did say that they are hiring more (up to 25-30) but it would take over 30 days for them to get started. This is after they fired so many last year. Also, there is "no such thing" as a disability bus - only if their is a wheelchair lift is it to be considered a "disability" bus. So, now there are typical kids on the same bus. Now my child sits immediately behind the driver or to the right where eyes can be on her easier. What can we do? Help. This year is a nightmare for transportation

already.To: sList Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:23 AMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

You must have bus attendant on your child's IEP to guarantee their presence.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

As a parent that has attended the ESE advisory it would have been considerate that the advisory post a note on this groups list so that other parents would have been made aware of it prior to the start of the school year. From:

Steve To: sList Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 5:27 PMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

What you describe is actually new this year for Broward County. At ESE Advisory we were told that students less challenged would be taking the bus with typical children while the more challenged students would continue on ESE buses as before. As many of the parents that attend ESE Advisory have children that are more challenged many were suprised this was not already policy as it would make sense regarding "Least Restrictive Environment."

I took a quick look over the transportation part of the "Rule Book"

http://www.fldoe.org/ese/pdf/1b-stats.pdf (start pg 231)

and didn't see a section about attendants being required, although attendants are mentioned several times.

There is this from page 231:

(1) The school district shall determine what safety measures shall be used in the transportation of students.

and there may be more but that might require some more digging.

Steve

>

> This morning the bus came jam packed with students. I asked the driver -who are these students and  is this the special needs bus? and she replied no, the special need children are on the bus and others from 2 other bus stops. I called transportation and got the run around and was actually told that it is not a federal law that the school district has to provide an attendent or a specific bus for special needs children, that it had been a "courtesy" to the children. Really? I respectfully (while I gritted my teeth) requested that for "safety" issues that my child be seated either directly behind the driver or to the immediate right so that she is within eye/ear sight. I swear if anyone touches one hair on her head/body/clothing/personal items there will be a major lawsuit. I know - we are working on independence, however when I rode the bus with typical teenagers I was able to

defend myself and there was alot going on those buses. What

> can we do? Any practical suggestions? - we should all go to the ese advisory and to our school board members and let them know what the cuts are doing to our kids.

>

>

>

> >To: "sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:18 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> > Â

> >

> >I thought under IDEA there is a limit in time from home to school and vise versa.

> >

> >

> >

> >To: "sList " <sList >

> >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:43 PM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> >Â

> >I know....this is ridiculous what they are trying to do.....it is ashamed that this is permitted. They should not have the right to put the children 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour on a bus. Sickening right? And they are not easy to deal with neither about it....and if there is something we can do about another non-sense from the school boa

> >

> >Nathalie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Like Stacey said:

If its on your childs IEP, then by Federal Law the service has to be provided.

There is no Federal Law that says the District has to supply an aide, they do

have to provide whats on the IEP.

If its on the IEP, just like if there is speech therapy on the IEP, the District

has to provide it.

Steve

>

> I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not

a federal law and it was only a " courtesy " that an aide was ever placed on a

bus.  This is from Rolando - in charge of transportation.  As of now

the only aides will be on wheelchair routes.  However, he did say that they are

hiring more (up to 25-30) but it would take over 30 days for them to get

started.  This is after they fired so many last year.  Also, there is " no such

thing " as a disability bus - only if their is a wheelchair lift is it to be

considered a " disability " bus.  So, now there are typical kids on the same

bus.  Now my child sits immediately behind the driver or to the right where

eyes can be on her easier.  What can we do? Help.  This year is a nightmare

for transportation already.

>

>

>

> >To: sList

> >Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:23 AM

> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> > You must have bus attendant on your child's IEP to guarantee their

> presence.

> >

> >Stacey

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly! If something is on an IEP, it is NOT a courtesy, it is a legal mandate! If it were NOT the IEP then it can be called a “courtesy.†Grounds for law suit/due process are not providing what is ON an IEP.

Clara

From: Steve

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 3:13 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

Like Stacey said:If its on your childs IEP, then by Federal Law the service has to be provided. There is no Federal Law that says the District has to supply an aide, they do have to provide whats on the IEP.If its on the IEP, just like if there is speech therapy on the IEP, the District has to provide it.Steve>> I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not a federal law and it was only a "courtesy" that an aide was ever placed on a bus. This is from Rolando - in charge of transportation. As of now the only aides will be on wheelchair routes. However, he did say that they are hiring more (up to 25-30) but it would take over 30 days for them to get started. This is after they fired so many last year. Also, there is "no such thing" as a disability bus - only if their is a wheelchair lift is it to be considered a "disability" bus. So, now there are typical kids on the same bus. Now my child sits immediately behind the driver or to the right where eyes can be on her easier. What can we do? Help. This year is a nightmare for transportation already.> > > > >To: mailto:sList%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:23 AM> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?> >> >> >  > > > > You must have bus attendant on your child's IEP to guarantee their > presence. > >> >Stacey > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Great points. For the record, as of today - the school bus has been broken down twice in the morning - and there has been only 7 days of school. I feel for that parent whose 5 yr old was dropped off over a mile from their stop yesterday I think it was - huge lawsuit now. She does sit right behind the driver now when there is a bus. I understand the comment about the least restrictive environment and if I thought for a minute about her safety not being compromised I would agree. I rode those buses and I knew the students then and still it was not safe.To: sList Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 5:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

Exactly! If something is on an IEP, it is NOT a courtesy, it is a legal mandate! If it were NOT the IEP then it can be called a “courtesy.†Grounds for law suit/due process are not providing what is ON an IEP.

Clara

From: Steve

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 3:13 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

Like Stacey said:If its on your childs IEP, then by Federal Law the service has to be provided. There is no Federal Law that says the District has to supply an aide, they do have to provide whats on the IEP.If its on the IEP, just like if there is speech therapy on the IEP, the District has to provide it.Steve>> I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not a federal law and it was only a "courtesy" that an aide was ever placed on a bus. This is from Rolando - in charge of transportation. As of now the only aides will be on wheelchair routes. However, he did say that they are hiring more (up to 25-30) but it would take over 30 days for them to get started. This is after they fired so many last year. Also, there is "no such thing" as a disability bus - only if their is a wheelchair lift is it to be considered a "disability" bus. So, now there are typical kids on the same bus. Now my child sits immediately behind the driver or to the right where eyes can be on her easier. What can we do? Help. This year is a nightmare for transportation already.> > > > >To: mailto:sList%40yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:23 AM> >Subject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?> >> >> >  > > > > You must have bus attendant on your child's IEP to guarantee their > presence. > >> >Stacey > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not a federal law and it was only a "courtesy" that an aide was ever placed on a bus.

The Transportation Dept is not above the law. The law says that IEPs must be followed... although we spend time fighting to make this happen sometimes. lol There was a time when there were bus attendants for kids with disabilities without it being on the IEP, because it was the right thing to do. Those times are pretty much forgotten.

If you have "bus attendant" under the transportation section of the IEP AND the "Rationale for Request" is filled in as it should be... this is enough.

If your IEP isn't what it should be, fixing it is your first step.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Thanks Stacey. It is on my IEP and I have contacted my ESE specialist again. Next step will be going higher up which didn't help me last year. I am trying to play nice but its getting more and more fustrating. For the 4th time since the school year began I've had to drive her to school as the bus is really really late or breaks down. If my child doesn't get her short time prior to school beginning in the cafeteria then heaven help the staff for the rest of the day. Soon, that will be another change to be carefully worked through but until then........To: sList Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:27 PMSubject: Re: McKay public School choice buses?

I was told on friday that even though it was on my child's IEP, that it is not a federal law and it was only a "courtesy" that an aide was ever placed on a bus.

The Transportation Dept is not above the law. The law says that IEPs must be followed... although we spend time fighting to make this happen sometimes. lol There was a time when there were bus attendants for kids with disabilities without it being on the IEP, because it was the right thing to do. Those times are pretty much forgotten.

If you have "bus attendant" under the transportation section of the IEP AND the "Rationale for Request" is filled in as it should be... this is enough.

If your IEP isn't what it should be, fixing it is your first step.

Stacey